r/Enneagram5

Have you ever had an sx 9 friend? Or became friends with any other types of 9s?

Have you ever mistyped as a 9?

Do you have any questions for 9s? I'll try to answer as best as I can

Title sums it up. I always long for a deep connection but whenever I try to connect with someone I feel gross and disgusting. Same thing with details about myself, I actively try to hide my favorite music and hobbies from everyone. I think this is a problem. I feel stuck socially. I think im 5w4 sp/sx but could be a 9.

So, I'm a 5w4 sp-dom. I'm also a *cue Ferengi sneering voice* female.

Due to the emergence of my bipolar disorder in my early twenties on top of being visually impaired enough not to drive, I've continued to (need to) live at home with my parents into my late 30s. In the period immediately after my mania I was too out of it to be bothered by that (or much of anything); now this situation is intolerable. They were anxious helicopter parents when I was growng up, and now it's not (much) different.

Seven years ago, I finally got enough of myself together to start teaching ESL online. These online platforms are marketplaces for teachers: you set your availability and your lesson price, and students choose to buy lessons from you. I set about 60 hours a week of availability.

In seven years of teaching ESL I have never gotten more than about 60 hours a month at absolute most. Which also meant I didn't feel justified in raising my prices (roughly $18/hr at most). And so I got stuck. Low-grade depression returned; lots of YouTube.

I've always wanted to write fiction, and through all of this I was subscribed to the newsletter of an author and writing coach. In one post, she introduced the Enneagram as a tool for character development. So, I discovered I'm a Five. I joined a personal development program designed *for* Fives by a Five.

Through that program I got out of my head and stopped needing to distract myself from reality; I started a strength training habit. Something like a libido developed, and I recognized that I'm at the least sapphic, if not a lesbian. I started to think about what freelance online work I could do that would actually be full time and generate a self-sufficient income. I got training to be a copy editor.

Now I have my first author clients, and I just want to stop teaching.

So where's the question or problem? Well, hello passion for secrecy and lack of healthy assertiveness slash confusion about professionalism and people pleasing.

Some of my ESL students have not accepted the idea that I'm going to stop teaching. One of them, an older woman, said that oh, but it's ok because Teacher will continue to teach her and other students privately. I felt such helpless despair when I heard that.

I get the impression that the ones who can't accept this think that teaching is my calling/passion. I think it would be rude to tell them it isn't, or at least, I don't trust myself to be neither a doormat nor rude about it. I also think that since I stayed so long, it's not unreasonable for them to have gotten this impression.

I do not want to continue to teach, and it isn't my devotion; I want a complete end to teaching and to move on.

But I also want continue to be professional. It is also not these people's fault that my psychological drama and dysfunction got us stuck up this tree, so to speak. They continue to need and want to study English. They just don't want anything to change.

How do I communicate professionally to them that this is truly the end of my time as their teacher, and please respect that? I don't want to have to go into all the personal life stuff in order to make this clear.

The background story on why I feel this way is way too long, so the quick summary is a combination of these factors: mental health issues since I was a young girl, a verbally and emotionally abusive mother when she was alive, a nice but passive father, school bullies, extreme introversion and loneliness when I was growing up, friendship problems in uni, heavy assignment load in uni which led to a severe burn out, financial strain in uni, and then when I landed my first real job, I faced a lot of stress from the workload and I also got sexually harassed by a few male colleagues and was bullied by my female boss.

I am told that I am smart, educated, a gifted writer and that I am good looking and that I should be grateful that I come from a comfortable upper middle-class-ish family. I also have a good education.

Thus, people tell me that I shouldn't be depressed. To be honest, I am very grateful to God for all my blessings and I tell Him that every day through my prayers.

However, I have always felt a deep sense of emptiness and depressed feelings since I was young.

I was warded more than 10 times over a course of several years (the last time was in 2016) and I got diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder (a combination of schizophrenic symptoms and bipolar) as well as Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD: intense and unstable emotions, sense of identity, relationship problems, fear of abandonment, etc).

I even attempted once. I am glad that I survived and I have been surviving ever since due to access to psychiatry, medications and a therapist. My abusive mom passed away last year and my relationship with my father has become close. I ignore his weaknesses and I accept him for who he is, the good and the bad. He loves me very much.

However, I still struggle every day to stay alive. I feel defeated in life. I was a good student in uni but my career is mediocre at best. That first job really stole my desire to live. I have not been able to replicate my academic success into success in the workplace.

Since I am working from home on unsupervised hours, I manage to finish my work well. However, when I am not working, my time is mostly spent on sleeping and bed rotting and scrolling social media. I also have hypothyroidism which makes me super exhausted.

I used to be bitter and angry at God for my failures, low energy and my mental health situation but now I just feel sad. I will be 40 next year and I feel so depleted.

I emotionally eat and this, along with my medications and illnesses, make me gain weight a lot. I try to exercise but I cannot lock in a consistent routine. If I am not going out, most likely I won't shower.

The reason I am posting this in this group is because I think feeling being depleted is not just due to psychological and physical causes. I really feel that my Enneagram (5w4 with strong-ish 9) contributes to this low energy.

All of my life, especially in school settings, I have had to motivate myself extra hard. My supposedly high IQ did not materialise into high scores except in university.

What I am trying to say is this: how do I tap into a life source? I see so many people around me having the energy to bathe, groom themselves well, build fantastic careers, have a happy family and have a big social life and here I am, literally feeling dead at 39.

I tell myself to be extra compassionate with myself and to be patient with achieving success and that success is not linear. I rest a lot because I feel that the world is so depleting and that I am always in need of rest.

I know a lot of people think of me as a smart person (after all, I'm an academia with a master's degree from one of the world's top universities specializing in a specific research topic). But the more I learn, the more I feel like I don't know anything. It doesn't help that every time I surround myself with smarter people or scientists with higher credentials, it just feeds my inferiority complex. I never feel like I am ready.

I am the calmest person in my everyday life, people are often confused because I am so calm when managing daily logistics (marriage, moving abroad, "important" events). But whenever it comes to academics (vivas, research presentations, and exams), I get so neurotic. I always feel like I don't know enough, and it scares me a lot. I've always been anxious about academics, yet I find myself staying in or attracted to academia. It's the same with job interviews that contain technical tests, I feel like I always have something more to learn. It's never enough for me to feel safe, and it's not enough to ensure my career.

One time, I had a real meltdown over my academic career because I felt like my degree didn't align with my research interests, and I needed to learn something that wasn't available in my country (I was thinking about dropping out of my first master's and switching to a new one overseas). When my mother asked why I cried, I finally decided to tell her the truth, only for her to accuse me of lying or "hiding something bigger", like a pregnancy or something. It doesn't make sense to me. A pregnancy sounds like a small thing in comparison, I could just terminate it with no feelings attached. But my academic career? That is worth everything to me, and no one seems to understand that. I feel so alone. In my life, I only have one childhood friend who is also in academia. And it's either her or my supervisors/coworkers that could understand me and my priorities.

For me, the real strength of this type has nothing to do with logic or intellectualism. It's honestly the ability to selectively detach.

Not from humans or the world, it's not that I am saying to build walls or isolate. It's just the sheer ability to detach from worldly expectations.

It's like looking at the conventional grind, pulling your validation out of it entirely, and holding your own ground.

Forget the textbook definitions of healthy vs. unhealthy integration. Just having the internal autonomy to do what actually makes sense to you, without getting derailed by external noise, is the real power of the type 5.

Curious to see where others locate their core strength if it isn't this.

Maybe it makes sense, I am 5w4 Sx/Sp and now I have reached the point where human connection feels totally like a drainage of my resources, time, and brain. I have never been an INFJ who is into pleasing other people, although when it comes to relationship, I mean romantic one, things change dramatically. I become emotional and go into a totally romantic sphere (I am not in a relationship rn), but when I am, my creative side also gets sparked. I write poems, I make creative stuff based on my knowledge, whether it's about building a website or editing a photo or video, whatever. But these days, whenever I think about relationships, it does nothing but drain me. Even going on dating applications drains me because I know I would disappoint people even if they are interested in me (yes, it happened many, many times).

I have seen the halo effect in my case. They idealize me too much, sometimes too good to be true (I really felt something, I really feel something when I imagine people idealizing me). They think I am the best person, they would treat me like I am some kind of god who has just arrived on earth. I am human, and I am flawed too. Then it carries baggage, and I don't try in real life because I am not attracted to anyone in real life, and to how many person would I talk to? It would drain me, Even if I am, they wouldn't be able to bypass the standards that my mind has created. Being an analytical, emotional person, I at least want that person to be equally competent in the matter of brain and heart as I am.

I have found these people and have lost them too because of circumstances beyond our control. I fear being a failure. I don't wanna fail. While everyone is feeling loneliness and desiring someone, I am going away from this, running away. I see how closed off I have made myself. Reading random things, whether it's about any philosophical idea, academic psychology, or cybersecurity, writing poetry and aphorisms gives me a sense of security and happiness that sometimes I feel can't be derived from the companionship of people, especially most of the people around me.

I feel like whatever I have written here is just a way to prevent myself from failing, like my thoughts are working as self-protection.

EDIT: I will read each one, once I am not occupied.

What resources do you refer to? Is just time and energy? Give some examples (maybe situations from your own life)

I (M) find myself growing closer to another 5w4 friend (F). Most of my past romantic relationships have been with extroverts that complement my strengths. This situation feels different as we seem to “see” and understand each other more deeply, but I also suspect we have similar blind spots and weaknesses. I’ve also been told that two introverts can easily fall into a “stale” relationship.

So I’m curious if there are any other 5w4s out there that have had a relationship with another 5w4? If so what was your experience? Did it turn into a long term relationship? What did you enjoy? What were the biggest challenges?

I'm asking because I imagine most of us use rationalization as a coping mechanism. I know I do, and here's the problem: I understand my mistakes, but understanding alone isn't enough for me to change my behavior, and there's a great difficulty in taking actions that facilitate behavioral change. I've heard (question the veracity of this as much as you like) that DBT works precisely to regulate emotions sufficiently so that action can be taken in cases like these. So, I wanted to know your experiences/perspectives.

For as long as I can remember, I've struggled with feelings of guilt around owning and consuming things. It's difficult to explain, but it's a deeply ingrained sense that there is something inherently wrong about it.

It's not really about the monetary value of the things I own. Rather, it's about all the time, resources, labor, and human effort that went into producing them. When I look at an object, I often think about how many people were involved in making it, under what conditions they worked, what materials were used, and what environmental cost was paid along the way.

Sometimes it feels as though I could never repay the debt I owe for everything I've ever bought, received, owned, or used. Not a financial debt, but a moral one.

Over the years, these feelings have become less intense. Buying second-hand items, supporting artisans, and choosing handmade products has helped me feel more aligned with my values. Still, the underlying question never completely goes away, and I often find myself reflecting on it.

I'm curious whether this resonates with other E5s, or whether this is more of a personal issue unrelated to type. Have any of you experienced similar feelings about ownership, consumption, or the hidden costs behind the things we use every day?

F25, 5w4 so/sp

So it is believed that 5s do not want to depend on someone, they are highly independent cause they don’t want to spend energy on communicating their problem and the need to be provided with help. Correct me if I am wrong. So how w6 affects you?

Hello Im Enneatype 5. I never connected with people since childhood and was very independent. I hated every day of high school I was treated like shit. I was always nice to people and they used it to fuck me over. So I developed a seething hatred of people and completely shut everyone out. My whole teens were spent in numb apathy.

I will turn 25 and I’m having an existential crisis. I wasted my early 20s in severe depression and cynicism. I have nothing to look back to. No experiences, no friends, no girlfriend, no recollection of years. I’m consumed every day with regret, guilt and self hatred. I have become so detached from myself. The only thing left is an endless void of emptiness. I dont know who I am.

My life is passing me by and I dont know what to do. I dont have anyone. I literally can’t keep going like this. I’m considering taking anti depressants. I need hard truth life advice about my situation.

It has come to my attention that some people lie to themselves and others(crazy, I know).

I can not lie without feeling very uncomfortable and I'd like to believe that I live in accordance with my values and can face myself when I mess up. I've observed through a few people now cognitive disassociation. And here's my theory on what's happening.

1.) A private self where they foster a lot of shame and know that they lie. This self knows the truth and understands the impact but feels too much shame to accept reality. This gets shoved down and ignored in favor of a more acceptable false reality.

2.) And a public self where the maintenance of their reputation matters more than actual integrity.

That split is why you see a lot of standard abusive behavior; you call them out on saying one thing and doing another and they'll say "I'm a victim and that's why I did that" or they try and gaslight you by saying you're the problem for noticing this incongruity. They'll say "you're misunderstanding reality" or "don't be so sensitive/don't recognize this as an issue."

They lie to themselves and want you to live in accordance to the lies they tell themselves. They want to believe they are good, kind, honest people irrespective of how they actually behave.

Part of them can not accept that they do bad things, and so when faced with evidence of wrong-doing, they reject and deny and do anything other than take accountability. The private self can't handle it.

I'm not the first person to realize this, but it's been useful for me to figure out and organize it for myself.

I know this system is probably very prominent in narcissists but I'm moreso applying it to generally more average people. I've seen normal people employ it.

My question is, are certain types more prone to this split system? Are some types less likely to lie to themselves in this manner? Thoughts?

Hello i’m an sx5 with an sp5 ex best friend. I would describe our past relationship as very close and we could trust each other and actually label each other as “best friends” even though we don’t really believe in that title. That’s how deep our relationship was. However, i feel like we clashed a lot. What she would call affection and special treatment is honestly the bare minimum for me in any sort of close friendships.

If i were to see one of my close friends on a public transport (let’s say a train) i would definitely either come up to them, send them a text, or at the very least acknowledge their presence by smiling or waving or something. And im not even talking about those friends who i barely talk to and don’t consider close, because it would be understandable to not talk or approach them in public. I’m talking about those CLOSE friends where you two will obviously at least wave at each other when we bump into each other. This girl, i understand she’s an introvert (an EXTREME introvert) but its honestly saddening she wouldn’t even make an exception for her closest friend, someone who she genuinely thinks changed her life and changed her view in having friends. I really really understand that she sometimes doesn’t feel like talking, or didn’t see me, or is shy. But honestly the fact that it happened almost everyday is kinda sad and it hurt me. She also just made me feel like my feelings weren’t reciprocated.

After all this happened for about 1-2 years, i kinda took out my hurt on her. Usually: Everyday during our break time we would meet at a specific place and sit together or walk around in peace while chatting. Everyday i would text her about my daily life and literally anything. However, on a certain day, i decided to avoid her. i didn’t come down to see her during break time, i didn’t text her. Kinda gave her a taste of her own medicine. (Because i realised that she never ever initiated with me a chat or to hangout and it was somehow always me) Then one week later, she finally interacted with me. Context: we signed up for the same programme, and then one day we finally went to find out who got in and stuff. My sp5 friend was one of the first to be called, then she left the room, then a few names later i was called. Outside the room, she was standing there and said “You got in?” then i said “Yeah, i’m shocked” Then we walked down together, having small talk like “how’s the weather” then we eventually split ways.

Later that day, i decided to text her. Asked her about the week we didn’t talk to each other. Eventually, we started getting into deep talk and explained why we didn’t talk to each other and then shared on how different and sad our life felt without each other. However, after it was over we didn’t get back to being normal best friends as if nothing happened. We simply cannot go back to that state. We just remained normal friends who don’t hang out IRL but text regularly and sometimes meet up in the holidays.

Well that’s the story sorry it’s long. I’m just kinda sad that i ruined our friendship because it’s honestly a bit empty without having a best friend i can trust like that because as an sx5 it’s really really difficult cuz im kinda picky.

Are all e5 allergic to dependency? Like completely incapable of relying even on their most trusted person? Or do y'all have exceptions? genuinely curious

Hi folks,

I wanted to get some data from older 5s who decided to live a single life, choosing solitude and independence over relationships.

Do you still have a social circle or have you isolated yourself socially? What does your end of life support look like?

Is a hermit's life actually feasible for you guys?

Do you regret your decisions or do anything different?