r/Festool_Public

I have recently acquired a CXS12 for use with my job that requires mainly fastener tasks with some light drilling on occasion. I wanted quality, precision, light, and a compact package for the job. Now after using so many other brands I had to give Festool a try and I really wanted to like the CXS 12 but similar to so many complaints online, the high pitch motor was ultimately a deal breaker for me, i knew of it ahead of purchase, but figured i could tolerate it. However my work puts me in confined spaces and occupied homes, so within the 30 days of use/Festool return guarantee, I decided this was not going to work.

Now I came across a used but good condition C12 Li and it has met all my expectations for Festool that I wanted from the CXS 12. And i wanted to compare both tools before the CXS 12 gets sent back.

So I write this now in hopes of picking up a consensus from others that would like to see Festool redesign their CXS12, but implement more of the features from the C12 Li and yet still keep everything within a small package. I know that the C12 Li is the same as the C18 of today by almost every metric except battery/weight and torque performance, but choosing to have all those C18 features but in a lighter package can only be done on the C12 Li platform which we know is discontinued. That's why I think the features of the C12/C18 need to be implemented into the CXS 12.2 or whatever they'll call it, but the noise level needs to be addressed importantly. Just a comparison of the two we see a weight difference of 10oz between the C12 Li = 3lb and the CXS 12 = 2lb 6 oz. (both measured with their respective 1.5-2.5amp batteries and centrotec chucks)

I wont bore you with the dimensions, but the pics show the clear height, length, and width differences, which for me the C12 Li isnt a deal breaker with the noise the CXS12 makes.

What I think should be carried over from the C12 Li

-Low noise brushless motor

-Drill mode to Screwdriver switch

-A torque dial that has an end point ie C12 Li model

-Leave the spindle lock on the fwd and rev switch missing

-Keeping the battery gauge in the rear end of the tool

-Battery Compatibility to other platforms

why I like these features (C12Li)

Well the noise is obvious for anyone that rather not wear earplugs or bother the homeowners. The quick drill switch has been handy to use for teardowns where you may not encounter the same torque strength of every fastener whether that be spec, fault of manufacturing, or the last tech to touch it was handling every fastener like an ape, ha. Also I think that switch helps counter the playing of the torque wheel, especially for the CXS12 where i needed to get max torque for a stiff screw to come out and i had to be careful not to go to far as to scroll the wheel past the drill mode I needed when flicking the wheel at a fast pace. Perhaps its just more of a learning curve, but I enjoy the quick flip of the switch to go between max and a preset low torque setting. On the subject of the dial I think not having a 360 rotational degree helps allow you to be more fluid in adjustment where you dont have to take your tool and eyes away from the task every time you want to adjust as you will instinctively know that if the wheel reaches resistance in either direction your have reached the end of the spectrum of adjustments. This last comment maybe more controversial but i did not miss the absence of the spindle lock on the C12Li, as i thought it made the switch between the fwd and rev smooth and no hang-ups where if you didnt apply enough pressure you lock the spindle and not change the rotation, like the CXS12 has. A minor diffferance between the two is that the fuel gauge is on the tool of the C12 but in the rear at the base of the handle. I like that placement b/c often thats the most seen area of the tool so I wont miss it. If Festool is committed to putting the gauges on the batteries like most brands, then at least place it on the battery pack that will be rear facing towards the user to simulate the same design. Something I will never experience now since this tool and its brother 18v tool lines have been discontinued is that at one point Festool made it possible to fit and operate a 12v pack on a 15v tool or 18v tool. This has some practicality if you want to reduce the weight of your 18v tools or on the manufacture's end, they dont need to create so many variants of the miscellaneous tools like work lights, Bluetooth players, and fans if your 12v battery pack can fit and operate them all with some diminishing performance return, but how much is subjective. As an experiment I fit and operated the newer Festool Kal C work light with the BPC 12 1.5amp C12Li battery that came with my second hand purchase. The battery fit and locked perfectly. The light did trigger on and can cycle through all three brightness settings, however within 10 seconds the light is confused and blinks to signal a low battery as it does not understand that the 10.8v/12v voltage read is of a 12v battery and not a 18v one. So then the light powers off and will not run unless I reinsert a proper 18v pack back in. So the concept was achieved with the right tools years ago but sadly anything new from Festool will not understand and operate with the lesser volt batteries, atleast for very long.

check it, thats the BPC 12 lithium battery running the 18v rated Kal C... but for mere seconds only

What I think needs to remain with the CXS12 model

-Size as appropriate to fit a motor that won/t have the high pitch

-noticeably bright light however both models were adequate to light the intended target area

why I like these features (CXS12)

Size and the form factor cant be beat in comparison to the C12Li or other drivers of this field. Again I really wanted to like this driver. The light was definitely a step up as seen in the picture and the camera doesn't do total fairness as the C12 was not as yellow as seen, but I would be fine with the newer LED setup if they kept that the same.

In Conclusion

I will be sticking with the C12Li now for the years to come until Festool decides to reinvent the CXS12 in another dozen years or so (CXS brushed motor est 2011 and CXS12 brushless est 2023). I just could not tolerate the whinny noise level the CXS12 produced at most torque and speed settings. Anything on setting 6 and below did not squeal noticeably (i wont say it sounds as dull as the C12 even at those settings) at either speed 1 or 2, but that really hampers your use if you're trying to avoid the noise. I will avoid the current C18 although i know thats essentially what i have, just downgraded to a 12v platform, however I am saving significant weight since Festool only offers the 4amp battery as the smallest option in their line which weighted in over a pound and I wanted to keep the tool closer to the sub 3lb area, which as of know the C12Li with 1.5amp pushes that need. I am in luck today with service companys offering to rebuild older batteries at a fraction of the cost to buy new and I have found other reputable companies that build their own discontinued Festool batteries and the like (not including the cheap and suspicious Chinese knockoffs on amazon and ebay). Since we are looking at least a decade before Festool trys this again, I will be having my 1.5amp batteries rebuilt of which the servicer tells me that the newer 18650 cells used today would increase my old battery cells to a 2.5amp rating and still keep that same form factor. Well folks that's a worthy upgrade and hopefully when done, still keep this tool in the 3lb rating I measure before sending in (although id like this tool to be alot lighter)

Link to original post

https://festoolownersgroup.com/threads/why-the-cxs-12-needs-to-be-redesigned-closer-back-to-its-roots-ie-my-c12-li.78584/

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