r/GayChristians

First of all, I'd like to say that I wrote this post using Google Translate, so some phrases may sound strange because I wrote them using the meaning in my native language.

This argument just popped into my head after watching the documentary about the 1946 mistranslation that put the word "homosexuals" in the Bible. In that documentary, the filmmaker has a father who is a conservative pastor, and although he is kind enough to still talk to his lesbian daughter and listen to the points of affirmative Christians, he still thinks homosexual relationships are a sin. There's a scene where he participates in an affirmative lecture where he asks the following question: "If homosexual relationships are not a sin and can be accepted by God, can you offer me a positive example on the subject in the Bible?". The answer, in the end, was clearly no, and he considered that he had won the argument.

I hold a "conservative theology," although I am on the A-side. I follow the moral rules derived from the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15) and believe that every Christian should follow them, just as I believe in and affirm the Apostles' Creed and the Nicene Creed (and in the case of my denomination, I also follow the Lutheran tradition present in the Book of Concord). I believe I understand the more conservative side of the issue; being a Christian means having a moral code to follow and, above all, detesting one's own body and obeying God. As the apostles Paul and Peter said, we should not abuse the payment for our sins and our freedom in Christ to sin more (Galatians 5:13, 1 Peter 2:16), but we should use this freedom to serve our neighbor and, above all, God.

Some abuse church tradition simply to be ignorant and hateful towards minorities; others are merely ignorant but do not wish evil, and find themselves torn between obeying God and loving their LGBT neighbor. When one fears God and desires to please Him, conflicts like this are daily occurrences. This leads me to ask: does God's law have exceptions? The answer must be, without a doubt, yes, and we cannot argue against it.

I study Law, and I can say that the cold letter of a code means nothing when there is no interpretation of what is written and no established doctrine/jurisprudence on the law that encompasses all types of social situations where that law will be applied. No law will ever be absolute; even the most fundamental principles of a constitution can contradict each other and must be resolved by the proportionality of the legal goods that each one addresses. I believe many here recognize the one theological argument for the existence of God with law: that humanity is born with established legal/moral principles (in Law we call this Natural Law) and therefore a superior being must be the one responsible for delivering this law to us. This leads to the conclusion that God – omniscient and master of all kinds of science – understanding that every rule has its exception – also created exceptions in his law.

The Jewish law, as interpreted fundamentally by the Jews of Jesus' time, did not please God. Humans tried to follow the law to the letter, resulting in oppression, because they did not understand that God's law was given not to punish, but to organize and sanctify the lives of his people ("The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath" - Matthew 2:27).

I'm not going to get into the discussion of how Jesus, for example, didn't follow the literal interpretation of the Sabbath that the Jews understand as not practicing any act on that day. The issue of homosexuals and the church is about the recognition of same-sex marriages so that same-sex relationships are not considered fornication. And since homosexuals are not addressed in the Bible, this leads us to look for some exception regarding marriage in the law, something that the religious fanatics described in the Bible would reject, but which was accepted by God. And we have an entire book in the Bible that talks about an illegal marriage: Ruth.

Many of you are tired of reading about Leviticus and the verse that condemns sex between men with the death penalty, but that's not the only prohibition in the book. We can highlight other prohibitions, such as: incest, bestiality, and... marrying/affiliating with foreigners.

Yes, God commands us to treat foreigners (those who travel generally seeking a better life and are vulnerable because they are far from their homeland) as ourselves (Leviticus 19:34), but in the context of the people of Israel 2000 years ago, God also forbids marriages with other peoples of the land of Canaan (Exodus 34:15-16). And because of this passage, many Jewish denominations still believe that conversion to Judaism is not possible; instead, you must be "born into the religion," and for that, you must have a Jewish MOTHER (this is serious, you can research it). Well, there was a famine in the land of Israel, and Elimelech and Naomi and their sons had to sojourn in the "pagan" land of Moab. The sons of this couple SINNED (in the eyes of legalistic religious people) by marrying women from another people with other gods, and you should know the story.

Ruth did not possess a Jewish bloodline to pass on; she simply made a promise verbally: "Your people will be my people, and your God my God."

Did this transform his Moabite blood into Jewish blood? No. Did that make her a daughter of God and permissible to marry Boaz? Many proud and conservative rabbis would say no. In ancient times (and frankly, this eugenicist thinking persists to this day), the people of Israel were considered the children of God, and the other nations merely animals (this is even cited by Jesus: Matthew 15:22-26). I imagine many doubted the legality of Ruth's marriage, but greater than the observance of the law is the acceptance of God, and Ruth gave birth to Obed, Obed gave birth to Jesse, and Jesse gave birth to David, and from the house of David came our savior.

God is not a cruel person, He never was; He accepted Ruth despite her being an outcast in Israelite society. An "illegal marriage" between a Jew and a Moabite woman was holy; I don't see why an "illegal marriage" between two people of the same sex can't be, ultimately, both are seemingly forbidden, but one became holy through Ruth's intention to draw closer to God. We should stop listening to the religious opinions of false Christians on the internet and try to be closer to God with all our hearts, and we will be made holy.

I’ve known my whole life. Never acted on anything, until I did. I cheated with a meetup from a website. God can do anythjng. Does He want my marriage to be saved? As I grow older I don’t know how to keep suppressing everything. As a Christian, I know the right things to do.

You're not trans.

Yes I am.

I believe God made you perfectly.

Then why are you acting like I'm imperfect?

Because you think your body is wrong.

I never said that. You're the one acting like there's something wrong with me.

I believe you're a man if you have a d**k and a woman if you have a v****a.

You think that's the Sole thing that makes someone a man or woman?

Well, periods and stuff too.

So you think the only things that make men and women different are physical?

Yes.

So what's the problem with me using the other gender bathroom then? They both have toilets which can be used by any genitalia.

Because it's inappropriate to use the wrong bathroom.

Why?

Because you could be a pervert.

So you Do think there's another difference other than physical characteristics?

No.

But you just Said that you think it's inappropriate due to a reason that had nothing to do with physical body.

END OF TRANSCRIPT

Sigh.

You know what really bugs me? It's the smug smiles people give. Like they view me as a lesser inexperienced being even though I've probably lived more in terms of discrimination along than they ever have.

It's literally lose-lose no matter what. If you don't get gender reassignment surgery, they act like you're not really trans. But if you DO, then you're asked why you need to change anything if you're already a different gender.

Hi all! I'm working on a project and looking for some feedback. I didn't really have a "coming out" moment, so my personal experience is limited. For those who had to come out to their pastors or other spiritual/ religious leaders, what do you wish they had said to you? Or if you had a great experience, what was that like for you?

I appreciate any thoughts!

I’m speechless. My thoughts and prayers go out to his wife and children, and anyone who may have been abused by him.

There's a church group I go to. I don't go to that church on Sundays, with the main reason being that I don't like the pastor. When I visited the church, he didn't seem to take my questions seriously. The moment I told him my name, I think because he realized that I'm trans. Anytime I tried to ask about the various groups the church had going on, he deflected by asking me how my walk with God is going, and when I said it was going fine, he didn't seem to believe me. He invited me out for coffee and we literally ended up talking for 2 hours and probably one of the most awkward discussions I ever had where it's very clear that he has a lot of internalized, homophobia and transphobia. I made an entire post about that encounter on this subreddit months ago, and a few people replied suggesting that I just leave the church.

Thing is, I'm always looking for something to do, and the church group that they have going on on Friday evenings seems better than anything else on Friday evenings at the moment.

The group is technically led by a married couple, But it's not really a contest that the wife is clearly putting more effort into it. She's doing her best to be charismatic and trying to make sure everyone gets along, while the husband makes weird comments like how a guy he knew who committed s*****e is apparently a bad person for abandoning his family.

The wife leading the group seems to be respectful of my pronouns... Can't really say the same for anyone else.

It really hurts to say it, because I kind of need this group to be working right now. I'm in a pretty rough spot and I can't really afford to just not go to this. I need it for my own social sanity.

But it is clear that there is some sense of gender division here. A lot of the young adults here are couples and they're definitely playing the classic trope that they're a perfect couple that doesn't have any problems, with the girls acting like stereotypical girls and the guys acting like stereotypical guys.

It's one of those groups where there's a girl or two who tries to play a sort of tomboyish act, like they're able to get along with the guys, and they're probably used to feeling like the most radical people in the group. So when someone like me comes along, who's literally a trans girl, It completely catches them off guard and they don't know what to do with it. They act chill of course, but you can just tell something is off. I told one of them explicitly that I prefer she/her pronouns and she said oh okay, but... Well-

Just last Friday we had a meeting but someone referred to me by he pronouns. I know that this guy also goes to another group that I know is definitely not affirming, so I didn't have the courage to speak up about it, because I felt he would just say that he didn't want to respect my pronouns. So instead, I shut down, putting my earbuds and started listening to a video. Then I made my way to the gender-neutral bathroom, and didn't come back for a little bit when they had switched to another activity.

The main activity that we ended up doing that night was apparently us praying for people that we don't usually think about. Apparently it was about asking God to remind us of people that we're supposed to be praying for, but aren't necessarily people that we see everyday.

This was fine by me. And I think it had a good motive. I personally prefer activities where we can actually talk about our personal experiences, but I take this silent prayer activity where we can basically do whatever we want as long as we're quiet, over something like a worship night where it's so loud.

So I found a little spot in the room just like everyone else, prayed for a bit, checked my phone a bit, walked around the perimeter of the room three times and then came back to my spot.

Then I left the room and just started to listen to some music outside the area with my earbuds.

There were three people though who came to me specifically quietly. They said that they felt that God was asking them to pray for me.

I appreciated it, but I also was sure not to take it too. Seriously. I've had more than my fair share of experiences of Christians who act friendly and act like they're my friend, but it turns out they're not, and when they realize that I'm not going to conform to their way of thinking, they just abandoned me.

I did appreciate it though. I'm not spiteful enough to say that I wish they didn't approach me, because I'm honestly glad that they did, and I'd rather them pity me than ridicule me. One of them prayed for me and asked if it was okay if they touched my arm and I said it was fine, and then they just kind of kept talking. She was the same person who I made clear about my pronouns, but it was clear that she didn't really feel comfortable referring to me as she/her. She kept trying to guide her sentences so that she would just refer to me by my name, but eventually, for whatever reason, she started speaking directly to me.

For instance, instead of saying-

"God, I feel she feels the need to isolate herself when she doesn't feel seen, which may come from previous experienced of being misjudged or ridiculed even."

She would Day-

"I feel you May have past experiences of being misjudged or ridiculed even and you feel the need to isolate yourself."

At one point, she did slip up and accidentally refer to me as he, and she hesitated, I think she was genuinely worried that I was going to get angry, but I just stayed quiet.

The thing that I don't get though is that these people will go out of their way to say that they feel I've closed myself off to God's love, and that I just need to take his hand.

But what exactly are they getting at? It's not like they personally asked me if I feel like I've strayed away from God's love.

I would bet money that they genuinely just want me to turn cis and straight And then somehow accomplish the impossible task of finding a partner who would genuinely love me for who I am that I could settle with.

But they know it would be literally way too much work to actually "help" me do that, so instead they just try and shift the blame on me, and say that I'm not open enough to God. Acting like if I just accepted God (which I've already done), then my life will just magically get better.

When we were talking about how the activity was for us, I said I thought it was fine, and then someone across the table, one of the guys who approached me and said that he felt the need to pray for me, asked me if I asked to feel the Holy Spirit, and I said yes. He then asked what I felt the Holy Spirit was saying, and I decided to just go ahead and be authentic.

I said that I felt that the Holy Spirit just wanted me to keep trying, and even if people think that the way I want the world to be is nothing but moralistic idealistic bulls**t, I should just keep fighting for the world that I want, because even if I don't get to see it achieved in my lifetime, my actions will make things even just a tiny little bit easier for the next person who comes along.

No one said anything in response, and the guy who asked just said thanks for sharing and they moved on.

I don't know. Like I said, I don't really have intention of leaving this group anytime soon. Unless if something falls into my lap that's way better, but I just wanted to share that.

i have never been to pride events and would really like to attend but am unsure if doing so is sinful in terms of pridefulness and/or placing your identity in something other than christ.

i also grew up in a lot less progressive of an environment so am not really sure what going to pride is like / what to expect/ how to feel about it. any advice is appreciated

did any of you raised evangelical or more fundamentalist struggle with accepting/affirming your queerness on an internal level?

i do fundamentally believe the bible to be affirming/ continue to find that as my faith develops, but i cant seem to shake the internal feeling that something is wrong within myself. like i accept it factually and with other people but like cant internalize it?

My partner is a playwright working on their first full-length straight play that's a gothic western. Reddit took down their original post, we think because they have never posted before, so I am asking for them now. They grew up in an atheist household, so they don't have the experience of a character that they're writing, and would love to get input from folks with lived experience. The character is a young girl who is a lesbian, but has set within herself some really harsh guidelines to follow her Christian identity. There is a scene they're working on where the character is alone in her church at night, praying to God, questioning why she has the feelings she does. They have some ideas on how to write this, as they are a lesbian, but they don't have the experience of being a young gay Christian to make this scene seem completely authentic. If anyone has this experience (lesbian or otherwise), they would love to get your thoughts and hear your story.

From my partner: I apologize if any of this doesn't make sense or if this comes across the wrong way. I truly just want to make this scene as authentic and accurate as possible. I don't want to misrepresent this experience since I know it is common among young gay Christians. Thank you for any help!

I didn’t know where else to talk about this so apologies if this is not the right place.

I moved out 5 years ago at which point I confirmed that I’m gay and since then, religious background has been a thing of the past. Yes, I’m no longer a Christian but, I’ve lived most of my life trying to genuinely believe in Christianity when I never really did. However what I’m here to talk about now, is how I’ve been live streaming lately and as a result some people from my old Church have been gossiping about it to my mum. No doubt they’ve probably seen the big changes in how I look, sound, etc. Regardless, I’ve spent most of my life trying to be something I’m not, so as far as I’m concerned now that I finally have that freedom, there’s no way I’m going shelter back down just because some people from my past life are now seeing me in the ‘here and now’. Not that I exactly ‘want’ them to see me now but, if they do happen to see me now, and have a problem with what they’re seeing, then that problem is theirs and not mine.

I have to confess, I doubt that much of you would really be able to relate to all of what I have to say here because even though Gay person can still be a Christian today, it’s not how I was brought up at all. I’ve always described my co Christian family as ‘old school’ Christian’s meaning, that they still have that mentality where you simply cannot be gay and also be a Christian. It’s reasons like this, why I’ve always been so happy to just get away from it all.

After having my mum message me asking me to not go live so much because she’s having people gossip to her about me and say that (and I quote) she’s ‘very embarrassed’ by me, I just can’t help but wonder how any person could possibly choose to remain a Christian with this amount of stress weighing down on them. Like I said though, the logical answer to this, is that I imagine you all may have come from a Christian background where it’s actually accepted and I would’ve loved nothing more than to have come from that same background. Unfortunately given what I’ve had to put up with, and now my mum telling me that she’s embarrassed by me, I obviously want nothing more to do with this religion. I’ll always be a spiritual person yes, but I was told that there’s a difference in being a ‘spiritual’ person and being a ‘religious’ person.

If there’s any kindof support that anyone could give to me on this I’d greatly appreciate it. Like I said, this wasn’t really the most ideal place I had in mind to put this but, I don’t know anywhere else. I obviously couldn’t talk to anyone from my past Christian life about this, and as for talking to new people who might understand now, well being a Christian today is extremely different from the old school Christianity that my family have remained so set in their ways for

I'm a little curious about this. I wanted to be orthodox when I was young but I joined an episcopal church instead. But I always wondered how my life would be different if I chose the orthodox church. I was curious what others thought about it.

I need some feedback and I don’t know where else to post this and ask.

I’m a music director at an affirming church. I have some paid college students who sing in our choir. I took two of them to lunch today, two students who I’ve known for about 5 years outside of church.

One student knows I’m gay but I had never told the other. I only told the one because he asked me one night after rehearsal and asked him not to tell anyone.

They were talking about someone who all of us know, and one student was saying he was such a homophobe. I never would have guessed it because the guy always seemed really kind and a stand-up man.

Well, the student who knows I’m gay said “if he was really a homophobe, why would he be cool with” and points at me.

I could tell the student who didn’t know was confused.

That’s the extent of what I need feedback on. I said how I don’t think this other guy who was not there is actually a homophobe, he just said things he thought was funny even if they aren’t really funny.

Conversation moved on.

I’m not exactly out but I’m not exactly closeted, either. I just keep to myself. I’m single. I don’t talk about my personal life.

I know the kid who outed me didn’t mean to hurt my feelings and I think was actually trying to stick up for me.

Should I say anything or just leave it?

For Michael Passons, who famously shared his story of being ousted from Avalon due to his LGBTQ identity, this recording is more than just a cover; it is a restoration.”For years, I sang these words while hiding who I truly was,” said Passons.
https://youtu.be/z2r1RFcnnB8?si=PYdNNvoRNAbeixeL

I want to reconnect with God and start praying again, but every time I try, I end up pushing myself away. When I came out as a lesbian around 13 or 14, my mom, who is very religious and a Christian, forced me to pray with her. She told me I was going to hell, and that being a lesbian was a sin. She grew up in this faith, and so she passed it down to me. When I was around 19, I went through a period where I really tried I prayed, I watched videos, listened to gospel music, but eventually, I pulled away again. And this has been a cycle over the years. I come close, and then I push it away. But right now, I feel like this is the right moment. I really want to reconnect with God in a way that's healthy and real for me.

Has anyone else been through something like this? Any advice on where to begin?´

Right now i am 21 years old

Context on me: Raised in a “religious” family that never went to church. Went a little as a kid with friends but stopped as I got older. Now that I’m an adult craving close community I am church-curious again.

Recently my best friends (who I have known for 20 years and have never been religious; one was raised by a pair of stoner hippies), who have been baptized and attending church for some time now, invited me to go camping with their church friends for a few days. I agreed and was excited.

Well it was the morning of the second day that the homophobic comments started. Someone mentioned that someone (not present) was gay. Another guy went on a discussion about how gay people shouldn’t make their sexual preferences their whole identity and gave an anecdote about how there was a ‘gay Doctor’ who was a drug addict, but eventually found Christ and studied the Bible and learned that being gay really is against God, so he stopped and is now “saved.” 

I live with my long term partner but did not reveal this to anyone (except my best friends who already knew of course). So after hearing this I was ready to pack up and leave. I instead just removed myself from the situation for a bit. But as a gay person driven away from the church by homophobia, this does not bode well, especially coming from my peers. And it is making me question the values my friends who I’ve known for 20 years have taken on in the last ~4-5 they found religion, if they now tolerate people saying stuff like that *knowing I’m around.*

Any advice in what to do here? What to say? I have not studied the Bible so I feel ill-equipped to argue there. And due to past trauma I still have a huge fear of physical aggression/abuse when it comes to these topics. I already feel like a talk with my friends is overdue, but anymore advice would be appreciated. My only real plan is to subtly recommend everyone at camp read William Morris.

Thank you all in advance!

Im a 30+ bisexual transguy from Sweden and I would love to talk to other queers who found their faith a bit later in life. I'm currently undergoing baptism education via the Swedish church and I have so much to learn and take in.

I come from a long line of atheist and I felt the calling thru being super interested in convents, dressing modestly, nuns, priests, Christian iconography and martyrs and even adorned my space with crosses etc etc. I couldn't stop reading about Hildegard Von Bingen and similar people who felt god everywhere and was all enwrapped in god. And I've looked into staying at a convent to explore if Catholicism is the way for me and to observe and be with god without modern day noise.

I thought it was just me being fascinated and autistic but one day I realised I had been called to prayer and god all my life, I used to have a secret altar in my closet as a child were I prayed and sacrificed flowers to the universe and "something", not having a name for god.