r/Godfather

no way i just had a debate about this

if anyone wants add real discussion regarding the franchise feel free to do so

see all our people are redditors, their loyalty is based on that.

it was killed by redditors close to us. inside. very frightened that they botched it.

anyways are there anymore discussions left?

Fredo was shot on the boat, wasn’t he? How did the story of him drowning play out? Was his body “lost” in the lake? If not, were the police, coroner, undertaker, etc. bribed or intimidated to ignore the bullet holes? That would make a very rickety conspiracy.

The body disappearing seems more plausible — but still not all that plausible.

For me, it’s a tie between Luca and Santino. Both of them take such an agonizingly slow time to die, and they’re both completely helpless as it happens.

Though if I had to pick one, I’d go with Sonny, given that he was trying to save Connie from a really awful situation. For all the awful stuff he did in the story, it’s arguably his best virtue which ultimately gets him killed.

I’m always confused by this.

Was it immediate such as the next day? Or did Michael let Fredo feel at ease for months and years and then pulled the trigger?

My thought was Fredo felt the embrace was genuine forgiveness, but we all knew Michael wanted him dead. Michael doesn’t strike me as the social butterfly pretending to be cordial to Fredo, so my interpretation was the next day.

After completing the Godfather trilogy, I have discovered what could be an obvious pattern that I'm giving myself way too much credit for "discovering", or if it really is something that Francis Ford Coppola and Mario Puzo only intended for the really-invested viewers to catch.

I think it's probably really obvious and most people have caught onto the fact that all three Godfather movies have a scene at the end or towards the end of the movie where every conspirator against the Corleone family is killed. In the first Godfather film, Michael orchestrates the heads of the rivaling Five Families to be assassinated during his nephew's baptism: Barzini, Tattaglia, Stracci, Cuneo, Bruno, and also Moe Greene from Las Vegas. In the second Godfather film, Michael orchestrates the deaths of Johnny Ola, Hyman Roth, his own brother Fredo, and he is also technically the root cause of Frank Pentangeli's death, which is a suicide to preserve his honor for bringing shame to the Corleone name. Then in the third Godfather film, Michael orchestrates the deaths of Lucchesi, Archbishop Gilday, Keinszig, and Don Altobello. It's not only that all of these movies feature deaths orchestrated by Michael, but they're all done in the same series of shots to show resemblance to one another. Maybe that part was obvious, but here's the more underlying half.

Each Godfather movie has its own villain (villain as in enemy of the Corleone family since they are all villains in the end), all of them older men who started as somewhat friends of the Corleone family for many years before betrayal. Every betrayer of the Corleone family were friends of Vito Corleone at some point in time before they got older, and betrayed the Corleone's. The first Godfather movie has Don Emilio Barzini, who maintained a business-centralized relationship with Vito, even receiving an invitation to his daughter's wedding at the beginning of the film. But then Barzini betrayed the Corleone's by backing the attempt on Vito's life, the murder of Sonny, and he tried to lure Michael in for a meeting on Tessio's ground for yet another assassination. He was one of the mobsters that Michael murders during the Baptism scene. The second Godfather movie had Hyman Roth, who was business partners with Vito during prohibition when they ran molasses into Canada, though Vito never trusted him. Roth would inevitably betray the Corleone family when he tried to have Michael assassinated at his home, via help of Fredo Corleone. He would also join Barzini in meeting an end-of-film in a series of shots of Corleone betrayers being killed off, ordered by Michael. Then the third film has Don Osvaldo Altobello, who was a good friend of Vito Corleone and even stood Godfather to his daughter Connie. Ultimately, he would come to betray the Corleone family when he felt threatened by Michael's efforts to legitimize the family. He backed Lucchesi in an attempt on Michael's life, though the two met the classic end-of-film fate as Barzini and Roth did.

It's just a theory, but it's a pretty interesting theory in my opinion.

One thing I found so fascinating in the book was all the detail into Santino's childhood, upbringing, and early adulthood. Yes, he was never seen as a true successor to Don Vito since he lacked his father's intellect, patience, and calculative mind. But still, he wasn't some pushover either. He formed his own regime at 19 years of age when his father was shot, and "like a young untrumpeted Napoleon", he proved his worth as a general during the mob war. In the main storyline, Santino is rightly feared by the other Five Families, and his conduct during the war might have resulted in a bloody stalemate, but it's still impressive when you remember that it was one family against at least two.

[ Removed by Reddit on account of violating the content policy. ]

Just bought a nice new TV and want to upgrade from my old standard DVD trilogy set. I don’t have a 4K player so if you had to pick a Blu Ray set, would you go with the Coppola Restoration or the 50th Anniversary? I’ve read some felt the colors were closer to the original vision on the Restoration.

In the book, there’s only one moment where he comes close to telling her. They’ve reunited and are reconciling, and she admits that she hasn’t been with anyone else since he left. When she asks him if he’s been with anyone, he simply answers, “yes,“ but clarifies that it’s been x number of months (i can’t remember the exact length of time off the top of my head, but it’s basically been as long as since Apollonia died).

He doesn’t go into any more detail than that, and for my part, I don’t imagine that he would ever tell Kay that he married a woman he met when he was in Sicily. Partly because of how close-mouthed he is, but especially given how Kay would (justifiably) react to such a revelation.

Honestly, if I was Tony or Ralph, I don’t think I would suspect Paulie as much as they did (even though, of course, it was indeed him).

Paulie’s in the slammer. What are the odds that Little Paulie visited him in jail and told him about the joke, verbatim? Yeah, these guys yap worse than six barbers, but it’s not often that you see people gossip by saying “Here’s a joke that X told at the gathering!” Usually gossip is more personal info.

So yeah, if I was Tony I’d find it a little incredulous that Paulie was the one who yapped. My suspicions would rest on the people who actually attended the dinner. And if I was Paulie getting interrogated by Tony about it on the boat, I’d just say “I was in jail, of course it wasn’t me.”

That extra layer of doubt is probably a factor in Tony deciding to spare Paulie. Anyways, I absolutely love how what appeared to be a throwaway line at the dinner became such a crucial plot point.

So as we know, during the wedding we see 3 favours asked to Vito

1. Bonasera asked for the boys who assaulted his daughter to be beaten
2. Johnny asks to get the part in the movie
3. The favour to let Enzo stay in America to get married to the baker's daughter

But what's fascinating is that with the 3rd one, the favour is almost accidental, perhaps even ordained by the fates. with Johnny and Bonasera, the favours are direct and material. Bonasera prepares Sonny's body, and Johnny agrees to work in the Corleone casinos.

But Enzo is simply coming to thank Vito with flowers to helping him stay in the country. But in so doing, that was the precise thing he needed to save his life. Because the assassins may well have tried to take on one guard (Michael alone), but not 2.

EDIT: apparently, some said that in the books Enzo's father in law paid money to the congressmen as part of this. But my point stands that in the film the favour repayment is almost by fate.

It's almost as if karma saved Vito here as a response to him helping a family