r/GreekMythology

I once happened to stumble upon this person who claimed "The biggest change Epic the Musical made to The Odyssey was the fact that Odysseus loved Penelope." I am still unable to process this.

There's also this time when a person tried arguing with me that The Odyssey isn't supposed to be homecoming story... I still don't know if we actually read the same book. The whole story is about Odysseus wanting to go back home and going home in the end, this is the textbook example of a nostos story.

This list would be incomplete without Hades and Persephone, of course, there are like a million misconceptions to unpack in this myth.

From book 5 of the Odyssey, Everyone knows that Calypso forced Odysseus to be with her:

"the mighty slayer of Argus (Hermes) departed, and the lovely Nymph (Calypso), mindful of Zeus’ command, looked for valiant Odysseus. She found him sitting on the shore, his eyes as ever wet with tears, life’s sweetness ebbing from him in longing for his home, since the Nymph no longer pleased him. He was forced to sleep with her in the hollow cave at night, as she wished though he did not, but by day he sat among rocks or sand, tormenting himself with tears, groans and anguish, gazing with wet eyes at the restless sea."

But what a lot of people don't comment that much is that Odysseus was terrified of Calypso. Actually, in my opinion, she completely broke him; before this Odysseus was a prideful man as everyone knows, but something changes after Scylla (where he tries to fight the immortal monster against Circe words and can't, and when his men dies, he thinks that to be the most pitiful sight of his life), but especially in Calypso's Ortygia. She is forcing him to have sex, and Odysseus is terrified of her as we will see. She goes to Odysseus and say to him that he should stop crying and start building a raft to escape, but this is what he says:

"I will not trust myself to a raft when you do not wish it, unless you, goddess, give me your solemn word that you are not planning something new to harm me."

Odysseus is either acting with caution because of Calypso especifically, or because of the gods in general (earlier Hermes had told him to also be aware of Circe's schemes, for she would invite him to sex only to hurt him, and Hermes said to him that he should not refuse the sex, but first Circe had to make a oath to not hurt him). But since in that other context there was threat of violence on the part of Circe, I think there is here too: Odysseus think that Calypso will hurt him if he tries to escape, so he don't even tries unless she makes as oath to not harm him. It really remins me a little of Theon Greyjoy in Song of Ice and Fire.

Then Odysseus crafts the raft, and Calypso goes to him and tries to convince him to stay, promising him immortality with her as a god, and that she is better than Penelope. Look at Odysseus first words:

‘Great goddess, do not be angry at what I say. I know myself that wise Penelope is less than you, it’s true, in looks and stature, being a mortal, while you are immortal and ever young. Even so I yearn day after day, longing to reach home, and see the hour of my return. And if some god should strike me, out on the wine-dark sea, I will endure it, owning a heart within indured to suffering. For I have suffered much, and laboured much, in war and on the seas: add this then to the sum.’

Because she is a goddess, Odysseus cannot say that a mortal is better than her in anything, so he says thay Penelope is not as beautifil as Calypso, even through he still wants to return. But what is interesting is his first words, that Calypso should not be angry against him, as if he fears insulting her even while flattering her and she can harm him.

While in the sea, Poseidon returns from Aethiopia and is enraged that the other gods let Odysseus escape, so he summons a huge wave to destroy Odysseus raft, and while Odysseus almost drowns, Odysseus thinks: "I fear the goddess spoke true when she said I would know full measure of suffering at sea before I reached my own country: now all is coming to pass." Yep, he thinks back at Calypso, who in order to keep him with her, said he would suffer in the sea. He is almost blaming himself even through he has no blame in his current circunstance (Polyphemus was a cannibal giant and Odysseus defended himself, and Odysseus even offered a sheep to Zeus to avoid the gods' anger for hurting a son of Poseidon, but Poseidon ignored it). Like I said, Odysseus has changed from the man who shouted his name to Polyphemus, to a man who thinks that he should be dead and is to blame for everything, and he thinks of Calypso words especifically.

Leucothea, the goddess who once was the mortal Ino, has sympathy for Odysseus, so she gives him a veil and tells him to wrap the vail around his waist and abandon the raft, because he would have the strenght to swin for days without tiring until the island of the Phaeacians, and then he should return the veil to the sea. But what Odysseus thinks? : "Oh, let this not be one of the deathless ones, weaving a net for me, telling me to abandon the raft."

His spirit is so broken that he think to not trust her. He thinks is another god creating a situation for him to bring further harm to himself. After all, until this point Aeolus gave him a wing bag, he almost reached home but could not at the last moment (but Aeolus is not to blame). Later, Circe tricked the crew and tried to trick him even through they did nothing wrong. Then they were trapped in Thrinacia for one month, almost as if some god wanted them to eat Helios' cattle and perish. And of course we have Calypso, that Odysseus believed that she telling him to sail away was a trap to punish him! But since Poseidon sends another wave, Odysseus has no hope and he wrap the veil and is able to swin to the Phaeacians.

Now, in my view, Calypso kept Odysseus as a prisoner in such a way that he lost all faith that the gods except Athena could help him, believing that if a god was trying to help, it would be a trap to harm him (again, not different from Theon Greyjoy, who believes that any help offered to him is a trap to harm him). But I also understand if you think that Odysseus became such a man not because of Calypso only but simply by everything he endured plus her.

But in conclusion, Odysseus was a prideful man before Calypso who would seek the gods help all the time, but after her he became afraid of everything, of Calypso, of any gods' help, and even of escaping because what if it was another trap? No wonder when he arrived home he endured mockery and physical violence from the suitors until the end. The Odysseus from Polyphemus cave would not accept such humiliation, but this Odysseus would, because he could not accept falling in another trap again and shout his identity or commit a mistake, it was better to be cautious first. Odysseus in the storm of Poseidon prefers to suffer a little more than to imediatly accept someone offer of help and be betrayed again like so many times.

For context, I got into an argument over whether Agamemnon was a completely evil, power-hungry king who cared about nothing but himself or if he was actually a complex, human character with flaws. I was arguing for the latter. This person brought up the claim that "troy controlled the trade routes and if troy fell, it would be a great opportunity for the greeks. He used helen’s capture as an excuse to rally all the men and attack on troy."

I told them that I believe it was a misconception made up by Troy (2004), and further asked for a primary source stating so. They sent a screenshot from Britannica (yes, I got a little mad too), which read,

>"Ancient Troy commanded a strategic point at the southern entrance to the Dardanelles (Hellespont), a narrow strait linking the Black Sea with the Aegean Sea via the Sea of Marmara. The city also commanded a land route that ran north along the west Anatolian coast and crossed the narrowest point of the Dardanelles to the European shore. In theory, Troy would have been able to use its site astride these two lines of communication to exact tolls from trading vessels and other travelers using them; the actual extent to which this took place, however, remains unclear."

I told them Britannica wasn't a primary source, and this excerpt is framed as a unclear theory and says nothing about Agamemnon. But I got a bit doubtful after that, and wondered if there was actually an ancient work which says what they claimed. So I decided to ask here.

Herakles is usually shown with a lion skin and a club. The lion skin, λεοντή, comes from λέων (= lion) and refers to the Nemean Lion, which Herakles killed as one of his labours. His club is called ῥόπαλον. These are probably the easiest ways to recognise him.

Poseidon is a little more complicated. Hellenic gods were rarely associated with only one thing. Poseidon was connected with the sea, earthquakes, horses, and more, so he could appear with several different attributes.

Here, the strongest clue is the fish he is holding, probably a dolphin. The figure also has the familiar divine pose: a bare torso with a garment falling from the shoulder. This is especially common in representations of male gods. Goddesses, on the other hand, tend to be much more heavily clothed. Yes, even Aphrodite.

But what exactly is happening between Herakles and Poseidon?

Mythology is fundamentally a flexible, living, and oral tradition, but sometimes I see people misuse this phrase when they want to exclude something they find and/or feel is repugnant and inappropriate by modern standards, such as Zeus being disloyal to Hera and chasing after everything that breathes and moves (because in the past people wanted to trace their lineages back to Zeus), or when they want to use and favor modern adaptations or retellings as a source, such as Madeleine Miller's Circe in the case of Circe.

And at least to me the phrase "there is no canon in Greek mythology" isn't intended to be used like this and I think some people may have misunderstood it instead of understanding that even though there is not just one version of myths and stories and that they aren't set in stone, it doesn't mean that they can be whatever modern people feel and want them to be because there are still Greek and Roman sources that help capture and provide us a small glimpse into what people have told and when on the timeline.

And this also doesn't mean that modern adaptations and retellings shouldn't be made, but we must remember that they are modern and not ancient sources and avoid using them as such.