r/LCMS

Everyonce in awhile Google news give links to Ad Crucem. He seems so angry, are his views widely held? Does he have a wide following? Or, is he just another internet presenter with an agenda?

Hi everyone,

I was born and raised protestant (am a member of the pentecostal church) however am now exploring high-church denominations and orthodoxy as I do believe in the Eucharist being real. I am comparing Lutheranism and Orthodoxy and I wonder what is your perspectives on which is the true church? I personally really struggle with saint intercession and hence like Lutheranism as it still has the sacraments, however if I understand correctly LCMS does not have apostolic succession. Most importantly differences in Salvific doctrine/theosis also matter.

Thanks!

Our church is dissolving, and everything must be appropriately passed on to other churches. Is older choir sheet music something you can see a church wanting, or should it just be disposed of?

Do Lutherans in the LCMS have to dogmatically affirm inherited guilt? Like original sin is one thing, but what about inherited guilt?

Im looking for an online source of the scriptures used in the Daily Treasury of Prayer (i think that's the title), and/or the scriptures of the 3 year lectionary.

I don't want to have to figure out what season we are in. Just want to read the daily readings churches would be using any given day.

Is there anything available?

Here is my situation: I am asking for advice on how to handle this personal situation. I have a relative, who knows the bible well and was involved in the church for many years. She is a 70 year old widow. Ever since she met this man who she is romantically involved with, she no longer goes to church.  She also has no intention of getting married again due to  losing financial benefits from her deceased husband pension, and perhaps reduce social security benefits.

This man she is dating is also a widow, and I was told  by her he constantly cheated on his wife during their marriage while she was alive. She makes up excuses for why he did this, and feels that the wife was not attractive, and trapped him into marriage. In addition, he was trying to cheat on his wife with her while his wife was still alive.  They both hooked up after both of their spouse passed away.

Am I being too legalistic with her forniacation? I love her dearly and I am happy that she has move on in her widowhood journey, but can’t help but worry about her spiritual growth and salvation. I told her that it is easier to pull a person down, then lift them up.  I care very much about her, and I have been praying that she will open her eyes to what the Bible says about this sin. One time she brought up the different levels of heaven and she implied that she was ok with just getting in. I found that odd and  because I desire to reach the highest level possible. I feel she is cheating on the Lord, yet at the same time I don’t want to come across judgmental. I am asking for advise on how to handle this matter.

I know people here have mixed views on Gottesdienst and I myself find them to be a bit ...extra at times but uh what in the world is that LCMS pastor thinking with filet mignon on the altar during communion?! Regardless of where one stands on the whole worship wars can't we all agree that steak has no place on the altar in any case let alone during Holy Communion? Shouldn't this guy at least be getting a stern reprimand from his DP? Also the irony of a church calling itself "Living Word" and then promoting Bible studies and books promoting enthusiasm is really on the nose...

Why did the LCMS adopt a modified congregational structure rather than the episcopal model of the early Church? Is there a historical and patristic case for this decision?

First of all, I want to ask this with genuine respect for the confessional Lutheran tradition and for the LCMS community. I recognize that there are significant differences among Protestant traditions regarding ecclesiology, and I am not simply assuming that the episcopal model must necessarily be correct.

My question is specifically about the LCMS’s modified congregational polity. The LCMS itself describes its polity in these terms and emphasizes congregational autonomy. At the same time, when I look at the history of the Church, particularly the early centuries and the first millennium, I see a structure that appears to be strongly episcopal, with bishops playing a central role in the unity, oversight, and organization of local churches.

So I would like to ask Lutherans in the LCMS: Why exactly did the Lutheran tradition, and particularly the LCMS, not preserve an episcopal structure more similar to what we find in the early Church? What was the theological and historical rationale for adopting a modified congregational structure?

More specifically, can this polity be defended in a genuinely honest and intellectually coherent way from Scripture, the Lutheran Confessions, and the Church Fathers, without simply arguing that historical episcopacy was a later corruption or selecting only texts that support the congregational position?

I am asking this precisely because I have a very positive impression of the confessional Lutheran tradition when it comes to the study of Church history, patristics, and early Christianity. If I asked this question in certain Baptist circles, I suspect I would receive fairly predictable answers. But I am asking Lutherans because I have the impression that the Lutheran tradition takes both Scripture and Church history seriously and has a rich scholarly tradition of studying the Church Fathers.

So my central question is: Is there a strong historical and patristic justification for the LCMS’s modified congregational structure? And, if so, how do Lutherans understand the apparent predominance of episcopal church government in the early centuries of Christianity?

I am not necessarily looking for an answer that confirms my own suspicion. I am genuinely trying to understand how a confessional Lutheran can reconcile the congregational structure of the LCMS with the ecclesiology we find in the early centuries of Christianity.

Note: When I refer to the LCMS’s “congregational structure,” I am using the LCMS’s own terminology—modified congregational structure. I am not suggesting that the LCMS is simply an independent congregational church or that it lacks ecclesiastical supervision within the Synod. My question is specifically about why the LCMS adopted this form of church government rather than an episcopal structure.

Can someone explain the correct and orthodox position on this? A question popped into my head about Christs will and I’m trying to straighten it out so I don’t fall into error on this. Also, how can one fall into nestorianism from making an error on Dyothelitism? I looked online and I don’t really see many talks about it from Lutherans.

I’m reading through the book of concord now to see if it’s brought up there too.

So I have been a Lutheran for about a year and a half coming out of Evangelical/Baptist/Non-d. I sometimes go back and listen to my former pastor preach online just to compare and contrast. He did a sermon about baptism being a 'first act of obedience', 'outward sign of an inward change', has nothing to do with water, etc. He went on to cite passages that he said some claim to be about water baptism, or point to baptism being salvific, but then goes on to say, 'what Jesus means here....or what this actually means is...'
Can I tell you the frustration this gives me because of how the book of Revelation was taught to me? It's like everything is flipped in evangelical churches. The things we should take by their plain meaning is explained away as meaning something else, and the things that are meant for allegory and illustration are taken quite literally. Try telling an evangelical that the 1000 years is not an exact number of years but meant to describe a long time. They'll practically think you're a heretic.
Sorry, I guess I shouldn't get upset, it's just that there were so many issues I struggled with, like salvation anxiety because I couldn't name the exact time and date I was saved. I feel sad for others like me who struggle so much with faith issues and don't know what they're missing.
I'm grateful that I found Confessional Lutheranism!

Here's a great resource on the Day: https://allthehousehold.com/st-mary-mother-of-our-lord/

I have been going through education classes and last week we had a class on the Lords Supper. After class was over, the pastor told me if I wanted, since I completed that part of my education, I could partake in Communion at the next Service.

I see what the official standards are and that they allow a pastor to determine if the person is ready or not as a Catechumen.

How common is it for a pastor to make this exception?

I trust his judgement, obviously, but I was not expecting it, and it took me by surprise a little. He said it was completely up to me so now I have to decide. I fully intend to be confirmed. Did anyone else have this happen to them?

I am probably overthinking this.

EDIT: Thank you for the responses. I spent all day yesterday wondering why I was hesitant to do this, and it occurred to me that whenever a person is on the proper path, dark forces do everything they can to keep you from going forward, using every opportunity to pull you away from that path, placing small obstacles in the way that add up over the days.

Ever since the pastor offered, my entire week has been heavy, trying to convince me I should postpone and wait. It has been one of the "worst" weeks I have had since I started attending my LCMS church trying to make me feel I should wait. I am not going to let that happen. Evil does not want me to receive this gift from God, to receive this salvific grace of Christ, to strengthen my faith. It wants me to fail. As the saying goes, "Not today, Satan!"

Brief background on the question:

I am currently a member of a Reformed(ish) Baptist church and I have been for some years now. I grew up Evangelical and was raised into its traditions, including a symbolic view of the Sacraments. A few years ago a friend of mine joined the Eastern Orthodox and has really challenged my views on a lot of points of theology; and while I am not abandoning my confession of faith alone in Jesus Christ to join the East, I am increasingly convinced that modern Baptist theology does not accord with Scripture on the Sacraments. (Note: I'm not sure if I'm entirely convinced of consubstantiality yet, but the Bible seems clear that the Eucharist really is the body and blood of Christ, be it literal or spiritual.)

The thing is that Paul says that "whoever eats or drinks [the Eucharist] without discerning the body eats and drinks judgement on themselves." (1 Cor. 11:29) If it's correct to interpret this as referring to acknowledging Christ in the elements (some people say this refers to simply taking the Eucharist in an unworthy, anti-fellowship fashion like the Corinthians were), is it sin to share communion with this Church that denies it? Would it be wrong to stay with a church that is memorialist, even if I become convinced that they are wrong about this?

I sincerely love the members of my congregation and believe their faith and love for Christ is genuine, but I'm torn about this doctrine. My church permits some diversity on doctrine (eg., I don't believe in the Rapture and they are fine with that) and they may permit me to remain a member in good standing if my views on Communion and baptism have changed, but I feel like this isn't a minor point of disagreement. I certainly don't want to leave my church if I don't have to though, but of course I must be first faithful to Christ.

Currently just mulling over everything and have been considering broaching the subject with my pastor. My personal theology is in the midst of major revision and I haven't wanted to bring it up just yet. You thoughts are appreciated, thanks!

Does anyone have recommendations for books that discuss/defend the Lutheran view of the Eucharist and Baptism? As a relatively newer member of the LCMS in the Bible Belt, I am trying to better understand these theological issues so that I can better explain/defend our view of them to the evangelicals I know. Thank you!