r/LCMS

Hello all,

I have been working really hard this year to strengthen my non-Sunday faith life and have been pretty proud of myself(although I know it’s never enough). This is actually almost a funny little problem I’m having.

My wife and I are in a time of transition (finishing master’s degrees this summer and awaiting the results of job search etc.) so we will actually technically be homeless lol at the end of the month (but we both have awesome parents who are actually thrilled to get to spend a bit of time with us).

Today was our last Sunday at the church we have been going to during our 2-year masters degrees (due to traveling the next two weekends). There is weekly bible study on Monday nights with a fellowship dinner/heavy apps afterwards. Tomorrow would be our last Monday night bible study as well. This church is a full hour away one way from where we live which normally doesn’t really bother us. (This is the closest church to us atm)

My internal struggle comes down to this. I am a HUGE soccer fan and the USA has like their biggest game ever tomorrow night and I had without thinking agreed to plans with my college friends to go to Walk-Ons to watch the game.

Bible study is at 6 with fellowship from until whenever
The game is at 7

I am strongly against all the modern prevalence of sports taking precedence over church and lives in general so I believe I’ve made up my mind about going to bible study and just watching what is left of the game when I get back. And honestly typing all this out has pretty much sealed that decision but I still want to hear what yall have to add. My main concern is I made official plans with my friends and I don’t want to be that guy.

tl;dr: I have bible study tomorrow night but want to watch the USA game, I made plans with friends to watch the game but forgot about bible study. I am outspoken against sports being a false idol. I’m mostly decided on bible but still want input. Thanks

Can you suggest some music (other than what’s in our hymnal) to listen to on a day by day basis that is faith based?

Last time, I visited and told my perspective of the WELS, our closest denomination. Today, I visited the total opposite religion of us, Mormonism. This is part of just a few weeks of post-graduation, where I am working part-time and with this additional time-off been visiting all sorts of different churches, learn about their religions, and hopefully improve at my apologetics.

First of all, everything I say here is read from my perspective as a Confessional Lutheran. Note that Mormons might use many overlapping terminologies as us, but they mean totally different things. I don't know anything about their religion, I'm just retelling my story of what I saw today. For answers to deeper theological understanding of the Mormon religion, we are blessed to have u/Over-Wing who can provide a much more profound understanding and more clarifications.

The first glaring observation that I saw was that despite the fact that LDS claims to being an ancient orthodox church created by God from the beginning of time, the architecture of their temple is glaringly modern. In fact they not only seem so unbothered by the modern architecture, actually to them it is pride point. They also seem to take pride in the fact that architecture changes with each generation, whereas we Lutherans take pride in an unchanging tradition. It's almost as if the LDS architecture reflects a continuity of updating revelations.

The second glaring observation was how opulent the building was. The temple was probably one of the most ornate and beautiful buildings I have ever stepped foot in, but with a type of ornateness totally opposite of say a Gothic Cathedral like Cologne. I now understand why every Marriott Hotel looks like this architecture. It was ornate, but not tacky at all; I remember knocking on a random door and realized it was solid wood and mahogany. The finest construction build quality I have ever seen in my life. And as a side observation, their temple is actually the total opposite of what we would think of a cathedral. Their temples close on Sundays, and they do not hold worship services in the temple. Temples are meant for the Mormon equivalent of "Sacraments" like marriages, eternal sealings, and a couple of other things I no longer remember off the top of my head.

Three, I felt that Mormon Baptism in many ways is actually the anti-Baptism of our Sacrament of Holy Baptism. It is apparent the Mormon baptism is pretty central to them, there is this massive room with a massive font held up by 12 life-sized oxen. I wish a camera was allowed to take pictures, I can't put in words how massive and central this was. I call this the "anti-sacrament" because despite being like our Baptism, their baptism also plays a central role to them too, but the difference is we Baptize so that the infant will be saved and grow up in the faith and have the promise of eternal life; they baptize so that their dead will have a backup insurance plan. We have One Baptism for the forgiveness of sins, they have many baptism(s) for sins that belong to their ancestors and not their own. As a Chinese-American, this reminds me of ancestor-worship religion.

Four, their view of heaven is surprisingly "Lutheran"? When I ask an average Protestant what he thinks heaven will be like, he'll oftentimes list out an endless supply of earthly pleasures: foods, entertainment, feasts, etc. Maybe I've been reading too much Augustine and Aquinas, but I really do think that with heavenly and perfect contentment, the soul will be so fulfilled that these objects will still exist and be enjoyed in heaven, but no longer function as escape mechanisms that we use here on earth. I say this because there is this room in the Mormon temple called the "Celestial Room", which is supposedly meant to be a parallel of Mormon heaven. Interestingly, it was by far the most austere room in the temple. No paintings, no images, just plain white walls, and the least ornate room of all.

Five, I don't think Mormons being nice and smiling can simply be explained that they are just a pretending act just to attract more converts. It is definitely sincere, yes it is probably amplified by their social and cultural conditioning, but it's not possible that it's all fake.

Six, the Divinity of Jesus Christ as God is not something I was able to get a clear answer from the Mormons on, but I don't think it's correct to say that Mormons don't believe Jesus is God. They push back very hard on any claims that they don't believe Jesus is God, and after many clarifying questions the missionary finally responded saying that Jesus is God, but lesser than the Father. They also put so much emphasis on Jesus being the Son of God that it really seems to imply that they believe Jesus was a created by the Father. So I would say Mormons actually believe a hybrid between Subordinationism and Arianism. Of course any basic understanding of not dividing the Substance while also not confusing the Persons is totally thrown out the window, and the logical conclusion of that error is that they have to therefore believe in a totally different god.

To conclude, my head is spinning with all this new information that I've learned about the Mormon and LDS religion. I have a lot of LDS neighbors and now have a much better grasp of what is their religion. Hopefully as I think about some of these things deeper, I'll be able to develop some apologetics to better defend and articulate the truths of Confessional Lutheranism.

So I left this apostolic pentecostal chruch after attending it for a year and half. Got invited by a ex coworker. Was able to get out. Cut ties with everyone and blocked them After finding a new job. Never been happier. Pentecostalism is very oppressive and legalistisc. The organization i was in was a cult going off the BITE model definition.

I'm now LCMS Lutheran. I much prefer the structured liturgical service and solid theology over the hours long pentecostal services that never end. The over reliance on emotionalism to make up for weak theology and the church leaders preying (not praying) on weak minded emotionally vulnerable people was horrible. Whiping people up into an emotional frenzy and preying on their insecurities just to grift them and gulit trip them was wrong.

For those of you raised in those churches i'm so sorry you had to endure that spiritual Abuse. And for those still debating to leave or wanting to leave. RUN dont walk away. You will have to take drastics measures.

Hello everyone, happy 4th of July. Peace of Christ be with you all.

I am recent Protestant, though very much new into Protestantism. I've been inquiring into Christianity for 2.5 years now, tbh, without much reading, but prayer and experience being my avenue in this journey. Initially, I was drawn to EO then later Catholicism, but just recently I realized there is no way I can merit eternal life and nothing I can do to earn it. It's Christ's gracious gift to me and us all.

I can write more about my journey, but it would defeat the purpose of this post. Long story short about 7 months ago, I took a job from a company run by ultra-orthodox Jews. Talmudic observant Jews. I am not Jewish and have absolutely nothing against Jews of any variety (religious, secular, etc), they are human beings just like everyone else, whom Christ calls us to love unconditionally and to spread His glorious Gospel to.

At the time, I was in a bad place (still am, been in a funk I can't quite explain past few years), and my religious leanings were withering away. I still believed, but not doctrinally or traditionally of any faith. With this being said, I was out of work for a long while, and I just couldn't take being so unproductive, staying at home doing nothing for longer. So, I reached out to this company I formerly applied for and managed to get an offer and took it. Didn't think much of it at the time, but to be honest was grateful for the opportunity they gave me.

There's a lot I like about this job. I work with real people, and help them get what they need, fix problems, etc. It's personal and I like that. It's helped me to, little by little overcome my social fears too.

But I haven't really contemplated that I am being paid by people who not only do not believe in Christ, but also most likely blaspheme Him. It sickens me in a way. Am I myself blaspheming the Holy Spirit by working for this company? Does this prove I don't have real faith in Jesus? Or am I overreacting?

What should I do? They often make us work Sundays, which would interfere with any Church attendance (not part of a Church nor baptized yet, but still). I can get a religious exemption for this by them, but this would just increase this kind of rift and dichotomy with me still working there.

I write here because I have traditional Protestant leanings, and hoping rooted people within the LCMS, especially ordained Lutheran Pastors could give me advice.

God bless you all.

I would like to share a prayer for the nation from the Lutheran Book of Prayer(with a minor change in honor of the special occasion):

Eternal Father, Ruler of all nations, on this day when my country celebrates the 250th anniversary of its birth, I thank You for all spiritual and temporal blessings enjoyed in our land. In Your mercy, You have sustained this nation in times of trouble and preserved its liberties.
Teach me anew to treasure especially that dearly won freedom of conscience and worship that is the cornerstone of this country’s principles.
Let me not misuse this liberty nor forget that true freedom is freedom to serve. Give me willingness to share in the process of democratic rule, to respect my country’s laws, and to work for the preservation of its institutions.
Forgive our past sins committed as a nation in the name of misguided patriotism, self-interest, or political expediency.
Confound all those who, for the sake of partisanship or other motives, would sacrifice the greater welfare.
Grant wisdom to our leaders. Strengthen all those who strive to do Your will. Increase loyalty to You and to our beloved country.
Protect me and my fellow citizens from all subversive or terrorist acts.
Above all, dear God, speed the course of Your Gospel among us, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit, hearts are turned to that freedom from sin and death that You alone graciously give through Jesus Christ. Amen.

(17F) Ive been going to my church since November but, I was recently officially made a member of my church! Our pastor has a class where you learn everything you need to know at first, I was baptized, and took communion for the first time about a month ago! I still don't know everything and im still trying to understand things, and get out of some things but I feel great so far.

From the Journal of Rev Henry Muhlenberg (founder of the colonies' first Lutheran Synod and her first President; father to America's first Speaker, Rev Frederick Muhlenberg), translated to English by Tappert:

"July 4 [1776]. Today the Continental Congress openly declared the united provinces of North America to be free and independent states. This has caused some thoughtful and far-seeing melancholici to be down in the mouth; on the other hand, it has caused some sanguine and short-sighted persons to exult and shout with joy. It will appear in the end who has played the right tune. This remains as a comfort to believers: There is One who sits at the rudder, who has the plan of the whole before him, to whom all power in heaven and on earth is given, and who has never yet made a mistake in his government. He it is who neither sleeps nor slumbers and who has asked his people to pray, "Hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done."

I will make this as short as possible.

I am concerned that the doctrine of perspicuity will annoy me forevermore if I remain protestant.

I simply do not think that the Bible is perspicuous. Consider independent fundamentalist Baptist -- the "Bible believers." Or better yet, consider dispensationalism and low church eschatology.

I'm sure we can agree that the aforementioned groups are considerably mistaken.'

I am fairly certain that Lutheran clergy do a better job explaining this than clergy of other protestant denominations but for pete's sake it really needs to be shouted from the mountain tops: . . .you cannot simply open the Bible without any hermeneutical training and without any study of the ancient near east or the antiquated Greco-Roman world and really understand the scripture that deeply.

So, that said, I sense that God is leading me towards a Lutheran or Anglican fellowship and am not really interested in Eastern Orthodoxy (at least not that much) but this particular assumption that Protestants share along with a few soteriological differences that I have almost make me want to start my own denomination. . . and I don't want to do that. . . that sounds like a bad idea.

Help.

Edit:

Please allow me to give an example of what I'm saying. In Paul's first letter to Timothy he says "women will be saved through childbearing." Now obviously we all know that women don't have to give birth to be saved by Jesus. And fortunately, I'd bet at least $20 that Lutherans are more likely to know what's going on historically in this passage than other Christians. But imagine what happens when the "wrong" person gets a hold of this passage.

In ancient Ephesus, a hugely disproportionate amount of women were dying in child birth. Paul seems to be saying that God will supernaturally protect Timothy's congreagation.

This is an example of how a powerfullly encouraging and hope-filling scripture could give a different person a horrible "takeaway" if that makes sense.

Hello I just need some personal advice.ive had Religious OCD as long as I remember but I've been fighting my toughest battle with scrupolosity for the past year or so. Alongside that I've been dealing with addiction. I've quit Marijuana and alcohol but cigars and pornography are still things that I struggle with personally. Pornography I've actually been getting a lot better. Ive havent abstained so long since I was 8 years old but my nicotine (cigar) use has been pretty bad. I find it quite difficult to quit both of those things simultaneously. Coupled with my scrupolisity when I try to quit both I've found it extremely difficult to the point I can only walk around in circles in my room praying in anguish getting nothing done. I am seeking professional help but I need to wait due to insurance stuff and I am just entering the lutheran tradition so I don't have a pastor that I can confide with. My former church was more of a john macarthury Baptist church which did a number on me. I don't trust the information that they give me anymore and I only really have you guys over at reddit. In my head im thinking that I can just gradually quit cigars and that it's a process but the verse that keeps coming into my head is when Paul says "God will not give you a temptation that you won't be able to handle". Am I making excuses or is this just my scrupolosity fairing up?

Thank you in advance I apologize for the atrocious Grammer

As a young man who grew up high church LCMS, and is still in the same parish I started in at a very young age, I wanted to write to my fellow young men who have recently converted to Missouri.

We welcome you into Synod with fraternity as brothers in arms of the church militant.

But might I caution those who may feel compelled to use their newfound freedom to condemn clergy in our Church: we, as laity faithful, must resist the temptation to be Popes in our own hearts.

Does cowo need to be dealt with? Undoubtedly. And may you have had a negative experience outside of confessional Christianity? Most likely.

But cage stage confessionalism isn't the path to route cowo.

May I graciously invite you instead to use your passion and zeal for tradition to build upon our ancient faith that which is transcendent truth and stability.

This is my invitation for you to comment and engage with productive advancement of building up confessional Christianity within the Evangelical Lutheran Church.

Feel free to shoot me a DM.

I've been wrestling with this topic for a while, and have struggled with the differing definitions used resulting in an inability to communicate. I've come across a framing device that I'm curious if it might help regarding discussions of Christian Nationalism and the Two Kingdoms.

Nationalism as a term is incredibly wide in its possible uses. On one side, we have the basic concept of the Nation-state which did not exist at the time of Christ (or, according to many definitions, even at the time of the reformers), but has generally been accepted as a legitimate form of temporal civil authority. On the other hand we have ethno-Nationalism (including White Nationalism), which our Synod formally (and rightly) condemns as idolatry. As a result, we cannot say that Nationalism as a whole is either good or bad, and critiques of sinful aspects of Nationalism end up lumped in with legitimate aspects.

So, at which point do we believe our doctrines draw the line of Nationalism transitioning from a God-pleasing form of civil authority, to an oppressive abuse? Particularly in an American context (presuming the Constitution is in force, rather than British colonial rule, or the Christian Princes of the Holy Roman Empire of the Reformation). How much Ecclesial authority can the state wield (either in our favor or against) before it can no longer be wholeheartedly endorsed? How much must be removed from White Nationalist or Kinist ideology to be brought into accordance with Scripture? I expect this will leave a very wide range of possible acceptable government structures, but will better delineate the aspects of modern Nationalist ideologies which are problematic without the baggage.

Do you belong to, or are you interested in, any of the Fraternal Orders within the Evangelical Lutheran Church? Do you know of any others besides these two?

Ordo Lutheri et Melanchthonis sub Rosa Aurea

Primary purpose: Cultivate Lutheran identity, liturgical life, and fraternity around the Lutheran Confessions and historic practice

Focus: Lutheran order, tradition, worship, theology, vocation

Inspiration: Historic Lutheran societies and orders

Audience: Confessional Lutherans interested in a deeper liturgical and theological fraternity

Emphasis: Ecclesiology, liturgy, confession, fraternity, formation

---

Memento

Primary purpose: Build disciplined Christian habits and accountability for men

Focus: Daily prayer, Scripture, fasting, discipline, brotherhood

Inspiration: Inspired in part by the Roman Catholic Exodus 90 model, but intentionally adapted to Lutheran theology

Audience: Lutheran men of all backgrounds seeking spiritual discipline

Emphasis: Spiritual disciplines, accountability, habits, prayer, Bible reading

Hey all, I’ve been struggling with a lot recently and thought I’d come and ask for any of y’all’s insight and advice. For context, I am not a pastor (although discerning to potentially be one in the Lutheran tradition) and am relatively young (20M). I’ve been struggling a lot more with lust and other sins and I was just wondering if y’all could pick me up. I want to put James 5:16 into practice and hopefully recognize that I am forgiven and walk in that newness of life. I also would like to know how you felt God’s call to become a pastor. I feel as if God may be calling me to ministry but am unsure how to discern His voice.
God bless and keep y’all, Hunter

What are our thoughts on the tradition of the Roman Catholic Church being so clear in that someone in Leo XIV's position cannot excommuniation the SSPX or our own faithful such as Saint Martin Luther?

While Luther stood against heresies such as papal supremacy, witholding the cup, indulgences that were seen as salvific and meritorious, the sale of said indulgences, and church dogma not traceable to Scripture, a council of the heads of the monsatic orders determined that Luther was not heretical and his priesthood was retained in the Western Church.

Yet the Pope went on with unilaterally excommuniating our brother, therefore, leading to an invalid excommunication such as the SSPX is currently facing.

I am asking because I am trying to understand how this practice is viewed across different synods and parishes.

In my synod here in Brazil, celebrating the Eucharist at a wedding is almost unheard of apart from pastors knowing it could be done. It is somewhat disappointing to observe how my Roman Catholic friends highly value the celebration of the Eucharist in their nuptial masses, while for most Lutherans here, the idea is completely alien.

As far as I know, reverent and frequent celebration of the Sacrament as thanksgiving worship was a central Lutheran point. I understand the logistical problems of when we have non-Lutheran guests or even Lutherans from different church bodies, but the idea of having it should not be a problem in my opinion.

Felt like I had to write this somewhere. Anyways, I’ve been in the process of trying to begin seminary with Concordia. Initially I was starting the Cross Cultural Ministry program through Concordia Irvine but due to unexpected circumstances my wife was medically retired from the Navy leading us to move back to Michigan. This prevented me continuing the CMC program as they don’t operate that far from California.
However after moving around the country for ten years thanks to military service, both my wife’s and my own, we are done with moving cross country for work. This is obviously at odds with the LCMS view on residential seminary. My family can’t go through another cross country move so the only other option is effectively abandoning my duties as a husband and father for several years to live in Fort Wayne or St. Louis.
So residential seminary is just not an option for our circumstances, for both personal and medical reasons. This leaves the SMP route, but I am not 40 years old and it seems from my reading that the LCMS is extremely limited in its approach to the SMP.
Overall, I’m feeling incredibly disheartened and depressed by the obstacles placed between my deep desire to become a pastor and the LCMS current policies. Any suggestions, advice, and especially prayers are welcomed. Thanks to anyone that actually reads all of this.

This is an excellent article by President Harrison. As someone who’s more in the middle on this issue, I found it quite refreshing. I loved the quote from Luther:

“everything in the mass up to the Creed is ours, free and not prescribed by God” [AE 53:25]

I’m usually loathe to bring this topic up, but I feel Harrison is providing a small, but real opportunity for some healing and reconciliation.

I visited my Grandma's new church and I was a little put off by how informal everything was

The pastor was making lots of jokes, people didn't bow at the alter, lots of shorts and t shirts in the congregation. The pastor's entire demeanor was saccharine and unserious. He talked about star was in the sermon.

There was lots of loud talking in the sanctuary before the service. I could go on and on

It's their church, it's their community, whatever I'm not going to try and change them or say anything.

What I am curious about is if this has a term?

I come from a non-denominational background but have been deeply exploring the Lutheran Church. One of the main issues I’m still grappling with is the doctrine of infant baptism. It seems to me that if I affirm original sin, the possibility of infant faith, and the belief that baptism truly saves, then I should be able to accept this teaching. However, I still struggle, primarily because I don’t see it clearly presented in Scripture or consistently emphasized in the early Church Fathers. I would greatly appreciate any explanation or guidance on this.