r/LeavingAcademia

I’m currently doing a PhD in biochemistry, and I’m increasingly convinced that I don’t want a career in science at all. I’m trying to work out whether this is a genuine change in what I want, or whether I’m just completely burnt out.

I used to be genuinely interested in science. I did well academically, enjoyed learning, and was interested enough in research to choose to do a PhD. But somewhere during my PhD, I seem to have completely lost that interest.

I really don’t enjoy the day-to-day research process. I don’t particularly enjoy planning experiments, doing experiments, troubleshooting them, analysing results, or writing about my own experiments. Even when something works, I often don’t get the satisfaction from it that I feel like I’m supposed to.

The strange thing is that I still love learning. I can happily spend hours reading about completely unrelated topics. I enjoy reading and trying to piece together information, writing/editing, and explaining complicated things to people. I think I like learning and thinking much more than I like doing research.

But I’ve also reached a point where it’s not even just academia that I’m put off by. The thought of jobs that are still fundamentally science/lifesciences-related makes me feel a bit… ill? 😭

For example, I’ve looked at things like pharma, biotech, science policy, scientific communications, etc., and logically I can see why they might be good options for someone with a PhD. But my immediate reaction is basically “oh god, I’d still have to think about science all day.” And that makes them feel incredibly unexciting to me.

Which makes me wonder if I actually need to leave science rather than just leave the lab.

At the same time, I’m very aware that this could absolutely be burnout. I’m exhausted, and I’ve spent years being surrounded by science, studying it, researching it and having to constantly think about my project. So perhaps my brain has simply had enough and is currently reacting to the entire concept of science with no thanks. I don’t know how much I should trust my current feelings when I’m this tired.

I’m also at a slightly awkward stage because I’m doing well enough in my PhD and I definitley will finish it, even just for myself, but I’m struggling to find motivation career-wise if I don’t want to use it in science afterwards.

So I’m wondering if anyone else has experienced something similar.

Did you completely lose interest in science during your PhD?

Did you eventually realise it was burnout and regain your interest, or did you leave and realise that you genuinely just didn’t want to do science anymore?

And if you did leave science completely, what did you end up doing? How did you figure out what you wanted to do instead when you had basically spent your entire education heading towards science?

I’d especially love to hear from people who moved into something completely unrelated to science, rather than just going from academia into industry/pharma/biotech.

I’m also interested in whether anyone had the same experience of being told “you have a PhD, you could go into pharma/policy/consulting/science communication!” and thinking “yes, but I don’t want to think about science anymore” 😂

I’m genuinely quite lost at the moment, so any experiences/advice would be really appreciated. I’m particularly interested in hearing what happened after people made the jump, rather than just which careers are theoretically available to PhDs.

I’m starting my 2nd year of a 2 year postdoc and already am tired of being responsible to carry out my entire project.

At one point I was excited about an academic career but now I just feel like quitting and doing a boring/repetitive job.

There are other options I have by spinning out the project I’m working on in the lab but that also feels like too much work.

Is there anyone who has been through this and moved into a industry job? Did you feel any regrets at a later stage about sticking around a bit longer and making it in academia?

Also, is this a temporary phase since I’m kind of the owner of my own project? Maybe I start enjoying it as some point of time.

Thanks in advance for your help!

I'm reaching out to you, Internet strangers, in hopes that you will give it to me straight. I am an early 40s tenured prof at a large, mid-tier university in Canada in a major city. I am a cognitive psychologist with a PhD in experimental psychology.

When you are a woman in science, people tend to brush off your career discomfort as imposter syndrome. I just really think it's more than that at this point, 10 years into my career.

I enjoy teaching and I'm very good at it if I say so myself. I don't love it to the point where I would ever consider accepting a teaching-stream position, however. I enjoy administration a fair amount (I am currently Chair of my department) and I'm pretty sure I'm valued by colleagues in that capacity.

Research is another story. I've been successful with grants so far but my publication record is frankly pathetic (though on an upward trend). Many factors played into this: laughably low startup funds, years of delay getting a physical lab and grad students, lack of collaborators, a departmental bully that would test the resilience of anyone etc. Those things have since been straightened out. But the other reason my productivity has lagged is that my heart isn't in it anymore. I understand that incremental science is important, but I really don't think that ME doing incremental science is important (if that makes sense). The field doesn't need me lol. When people ask me what my research is about at a party or a conference, I want to gauge my eyes out. I've considered just going the YOLO route and studying whatever I want now that I have tenure... but I am at a loss to think what I could study that would matter to me. I also don't like statistics and reluctantly do the necessary quant continuing education needed in my field. Sometimes when I'm at a conference or a lab meeting, I feel this urge to laugh and scream "Who cares? These effect sizes are tiny!" like an unstable lady.

I've considered telling my collaborators and grad students (both of whom I adore and respect) that when my grant is up in 3 years I want off the rollercoaster. But I don't know if it's even possible to do that. One option is to go into admin, but I'm wondering if I can realistically make that into a career. Don't most administrators eventually get bumped back to their professor role once they are finished? I would consider leaving but I like working in a public institution in whose mission I do believe in (I also like my salary and benefits). When you don't do research, they bump up your teaching load which I wouldn't be thrilled about. The thought of working for a startup makes me jump out of my skin and data scientist is an obvious bad fit given *gestures to statistics*.

Am I just a spoiled brat who needs to suck it up and ride out the research lull until something finally sparks joy?

One of my friends got a news from my supervisor favourite student. Mentioned that my contract as PhD student won’t be renewed as they are not satisfied with my performance. Maybe it is hard for me to catch up with everything on the lab and that student said I have no progress. This October is my second year. I am lost direction. I don’t even know what I feel now, I want to give up or I want to continue. It’s so blurry for me.

I spent my last year of my PhD in a total identity crisis, hating myself, feeling like. A complete loser for my lack of industry relevant skills or whatever. I was so full of regret, why oh why didn’t I join go into industry straight after graduating with my bachelors and climb the corporate ladder. What a terrible mistake I made getting a PhD!

Fuck everyone who made me feel that way! You only get one life to live and a PhD was such an incredibly fantastic way to earn a living. I was a PhD student in the social sciences so no back breaking lab work. Sure, I felt very stressed about my experiments succeeding. But I never made a PTO request, I went on vacation like 5-6 weeks a year. I collected data when I wanted, no one told me what to do. My PI gave me incredible autonomy to do whatever the f I wanted. Sure sometimes I wanted more guidance, and he didn’t prepare me super well to enter academia, but fuck it!

I also had an internship during my the last two years of grad school. I was clearing $5k/mo! And my internship was also incredibly laid back….virtually no work but guaranteed 20 hours per week of pay. Fucking lit! Also, not ONCE during my PhD did I worry about a lay off or not getting a paycheck. Job stability is not something to take for granted!

I entered industry hoping for something more real and tangible than the social sciences but lmao was I wrong. Academia has its problems but I wish I just focused on transitioning to a better research topic rather than throwing away the last 9 years of my life because surely the industry pay made it soooo worth it. To be fair, I’m not a genius, I’m working for the fed gov, not like Anthropic or some super cool company doing AI shit. For comp sci PhDs I’m sure the calculus is different….

My point is be grateful for what you have and also know that you’re earning a living in a more chilled out way than like 99% of the human population. You are not a loser for getting a PhD you’re a fucking baller and you will find some way to earn money after your PhD. I wish someone told me this because I spent the last year of my PhD so depressed about what a loser I was for not having industry experience or whatever. The people who make you feel this way are just jealous!!

You are amazing, also yeah, I’m sort of drunk (it was my friend’s birthday). Have a great week everyone.

Mainly posting this so I can get my thoughts out. I’m so indecisive, constantly weighing up everything and every time I think I’ve made up my mind, I’ve changed it again. I have autism, cerebral palsy and depression. I don’t know what I truly want to do in my life and don’t know how I feel about carrying on at university. I have the dream team to help with all my needs while I’m there. I’ve had an experience filled with ups and downs but I don’t enjoy the work at uni. It’s just a lot of essays and reading which I hate. I study history and I love the subject but all the unwanted reading and writing essays takes all the fun away.
I’m very financially secure at 23 and I’m very fortunate to be that way. What I really want more than anything is a boyfriend. I’m gay and have endured nothing but endless disappointment in my love life. The only real reason that I would truly want to finish my degree is because I feel that it would make me more attractive to a future partner. I can say to them when they ask what do you for work that I’m a history student and then he won’t think I just sit on my arse all day and actually have something going for me.

Hi all. I'm a first-year PhD student in sociology in my home country (Europe). I'm pretty much set on quitting before re-enrollment at this point and have started job searching. This has been a really difficult time, so I'm here to hear how things have gone for others and to get any advice really. I also feel like I need to share my experience somewhere before leaving. Unfortunately, I haven't managed to build a supportive network of peers within academia for this kind of request, so I'm hoping it can happen here :) I also don't feel ready to share this with my friends and family outside academia.

Here's a bit of context (I'd rather not include any identifiable info, sorry for the vagueness of it all)... I've wanted to pursue a PhD and work in academia since basically my first semester of undergrad and properly engaging with sociological research. I started studying a bit later than usual as I worked in retail and in a charity and travelled for some time after leaving high school. No one in my family had studied or even graduated from high school so it just wasn't a given for me, and I felt very uncertain about it at the time, which was compounded by poor mental health. Studying sociology was truly emancipatory for me and I did end up doing very well throughout my BA. In turn, this made be feel better and like I had found my path.

I worked in the charity sector for about a year after my BA and was accepted into a very selective master's in social sciences (our equivalent of an Ivy institution). The environment was intellectually challenging, which I loved, but it was also soul-crushing on many levels. Professors instilled a toxic competition for future opportunities including PhDs within the cohort from the first semester of our 2-year program. Unsurprisingly, there was a significant proportion of nepo baby scholars and other privileged students within that program who knew how to navigate that, creating a rift within the cohort. Being about 3 years older than most helped me steer clear of the pettiest aspects of it, but I was also made to feel like I was behind on everything, including by graduate instructors (who had come out of that program, of course). One of them joked about being the same age as I was and towards the end of his PhD while supervising a group of us doing field research. It also took me 3 whole months to figure out that the only reason everyone kept asking me if I was an exchange student was that I was the only black person on that program and one of the few attending this institution 🥲 I was born in that country. I once had a professor tweet a quote of something I had said in class, mocking me on his very public profile, because I was expressing a methodological/ethical disagreement. I had admitted during the seminar that it was poorly phrased and reframed it on the spot. I didn't have Twitter and found out about the incident months later while others were discussing it at lunch. I could go on... I kept going anyway because I genuinely love research, was getting excellent results, and receiving positive feedback about my work from other professors who encouraged me to pursue a PhD and publish my master's thesis findings. And so here I am.

I stayed at that institution, which I guess was my first mistake, and I managed to get 3 years of funding, working with a supervisor I had a lot of respect and admiration for upon starting. Before I had even signed my contract, this person failed to complete her side of the admin duties regarding my enrollment and departure abroad for fieldwork, which meant that I almost lost said funding and contract. Instead of coming clean to admin services, she threw me under the bus with an email stating that I had not reached out to her about any of it. She accidentally ccd me in that email. I was able to produce evidence that I had met with her 3 months earlier and submitted all required paperwork, as well as asked repeatedly if anything else was needed on my part. The assistant director of that institution emailed me back saying that the situation would be resolved, but that one does not start a PhD by "betraying" and "accusing" their supervisor. This almost made me quit, which I expressed to my supervisor, who told me I was lucky enough to have gotten funding and should not blow it. I somehow decided the research project was worth it and hyped myself up again. I told her I was ready to move forward and was not holding any grudges. She did apologize for "the misunderstanding" and asked if I was still willing to work with her. The truth is, I no longer had the mental bandwidth to look for someone else, explain that whole story etc. I also feared retaliation on her part if I decided to swap supervisors, knowing she is fairly influential in my subfield.

It's been a year since this incident; my research is progressing normally, though I've had to review my original project and I'm not as passionate about its current form (I understand this is the normal process of things). I've managed to publish a paper and submit another one over the last year. I also taught a course in pol sci, which I truly enjoyed. However, I feel like something really broke in me over the last few months. My passion for research no longer outweighs my discomfort with academia as a working environment. I keep witnessing the same inequalities, dismissive and/or unethical behaviours, and simply unhappy, overworked individuals antagonizing their peers.

I'm also beginning to feel the effects of institutional dysfunctions. For example, I was contacted a week in advance for the course I taught because they apparently didn't have anyone, and told the syllabus was ready. Only to be sent, I kid you not, a one-page word doc with 12 bullet-point titles for each session and 6 completely outdated references that had no internal coherence. I spent the week crafting a syllabus, trying to get a hold of my student list and my classroom number. The convenor for the course had no idea and could not find time to meet me throughout the entire semester. I got an email 2 hours before the class, finally letting me know which room I had been assigned. I honestly feel I could withstand these conditions if there was any spirit to fight back against the current state of public universities and academia in general, but people are too busy fighting for scraps in the form of the 122nd funding application, struggling to stay afloat, and often blaming those who do try to fight back.

My supervisor is also pretty nonchalant about actually supervising, with most of our meetings consisting of life stories and anecdotes of her own research without truly engaging with the difficulties I'm bringing up and notes I'm submitting. Recently, as I was explaining some very worrying political developments which hinder my fieldwork and have life-threatening consequences for people I know, her first reaction was to nod and say something along the lines of "write this down as it will make for very interesting future projects". I understand that we are moved by intellectual curiosity but this felt incredibly tone-deaf and extractive. Along with other weird interactions, it makes me fear that I'm her token diversity student studying something "unusual" and I've realised I may be read as such by other members of our lab. Jason Arday's trajectory does loom here and I'm finding myself once again questioning whether I actually belong in academia at all.

My mental and physical health are dwindling, and I'm also increasingly frustrated with something I had refused to confront up until now: the huge opportunity and material cost that staying in academia entails at this point. I'm almost 30 and realistically won't graduate with my PhD before I'm 33-34. By then, I don't think I'll want to stay in academia, and even if I were to, the prospects are grim; I might not have any shot at a somewhat stable position before my 40s. I'm currently paid a bit above minimum wage, with student debt (manageable, about 200 euros/month) to pay off and having to help support my mother, whose pension is ridiculous. I only have funding for the first 3 years of my PhD and have to hope I secure a temporary teaching position for a year or so after that. Or I'll have to use up unemployment benefits while I write my thesis, which I might need in case I don't find a job immediately after graduating, which I probably won't. I know people currently in this position, and its depressing as hell.

I know a PhD is experience in a way, but if we're honest, it's not treated as such by recruiters. I feel like pivoting back to the non profit/policy sector at least temporarily now is achievable, having some experience and a master's, but if I wait for 5 years, I expect it will be significantly harder. What are your experiences with this? And what do you think my prospects are now? I'm still considering other paths and retraining options.

I know the grass is not necessarily a whole lot greener as I've worked before, but I at least expect to relieve the constant mental exhaustion and feeling of not achieving enough. I know I had hobbies and cultivated other interests while I was working outside academia. All that being said, I'm struggling with the persistent feeling of failure that comes with this decision and would appreciate any advice or inspiration on how to deal with it ? I politically disagree with the idea that universities have a monopoly on knowledge production, and they don't, but I'm still paralysed by the fear of losing that access to intellectual stimulation and knowledge, even if I'm involved in initiatives outside the university. I'm also just sad that I can't finish this PhD as it had really become something important to me.

Thank you if you have made it all the way down here, I appreciate it.

I will not miss the late nights, the weekend emails requesting data, the meeting requests when I'm supposed to be on vacation, nor the "urgent" emails requesting extra work.

I will rejoice at not having to use my personal computer for work and not having to pay my own subscriptions for the software I need to do my job.

I will not miss the low pay, and the lack of respect even as a 30 year old because I'm "still a trainee" as a postdoc.

I will not miss the financial instability and low pay. I will not miss ruining my clothes in the lab. I will not miss dealing with egomaniacs and p-hackers.

Goodbye friends, may you also are able to leave soon.

For me, it was especially difficult because I was a parent with two kids. Daycare alone made the finances feel pretty tight, and there were plenty of times when I wondered how long I could realistically keep doing it. I eventually did.

I also didn't want to admit that pursuing academia might have been a bad financial decision.

I still live within 10 minutes of the college I left in 2022, where I had tenure but received increasing warnings over my on campus activism. I'm now a server at a local vegan restaurant, the first steady gig after closing my failing consulting business that launched upon leaving higher ed. Yesterday, a former colleague from the college dined in and I did my damnedest to not be recognized, though he eventually did and eagerly asked if I was the restaurants owner.

These kinds of unwanted reunions, which occur maybe once per year, bring to the surface shame -- shame about the breakdown that eventually prompted me to leave higher ed (though I was already looking for new jobs), about falling from tenured professor to restaurant server, about feeling as though I have nothing to show for the work it took to earn a PhD and then tenure.

I forget that I chose to resign because I was concerned the next suic attempt would be successful. The shame makes me forget how miserable I was, how much of myself I compromised to land and then keep a job -- and then still be threatened by the dean even once I'd earned tenure. And that so many others either quit or are pushed out or remain and are miserable.

Leaving allowed me to recognize I only pursued a PhD to appease my controlling parents, that I'd been steered away from my artistic interests that an academic career made sense post-PhD.

Hi everyone,

I’m trying to make this as short as possible. I’m a 30-year-old PhD student in Microbiology (f), currently entering my 5th year. Based in Spain. I’m writing this because I’ve hit a wall and I honestly don't know how much longer I can keep going.

I started my PhD with a 4-year fellowship awarded to two PIs from different research groups for a collaborative project. They never got along. They decided I would work 2 years for one and 2 years for the other, and I had no idea what I was getting into.

After one year with zero results, Supervisor 1 told Supervisor 2 that it would be better if I stayed with him exclusively so I could actually make progress, compensating Supervisor 2 financially through some shady under-the-table deal. I cut ties with Supervisor 2, and a postdoc from the lab joined as my co-supervisor.

A few months later, Supervisor 1 moved his lab to France (he is still my main director), leaving me physically in Spain with my co-supervisor in a 'borrowed' lab. Eventually, my co-supervisor landed a position to start her own group at another university, and I phisically moved with her. However, my grant didn't allow changing institutions, which means I've spent half of my PhD working illegally at a different university without health insurance or coverage.

Regarding results, neither of my supervisors even knew what that 'collaborative project' I was hired for was actually about, and they provided (almost) zero guidance. I work on something completely outside their expertise (as with my fellowship I was supposed to work on a special different project), so I’ve had to figure everything out on my own by reading literature. I have one 'big' omics experiment that I can analyze—which took me 2+ years of troubleshooting just to set up—but everything else failed; I have very few results, and they are all negative. My primary supervisor is so absent that one day he literally told me: "I'm sorry, I can't help you with your topic", and walked away.

On top of that, the postdoc who became my co-supervisor has been on sick and maternity leave since April. That means I've been completely alone in the lab for 4 months, with no postdoc peers or anyone else to guide me. Almost no meetings, no guidance, and not a single chat on a paper that was read in common in these full 4 years.

Now I’m approaching the end of my fellowship and I’m supposed to stay 1 year more enrolled in the PhD program. I will be working while collecting unemployment benefits for a few more months, until I can start a 6-month contract extension that my co-supervisor offered me. The problem is that I'm still missing experiments that keep failing, and what I currently have as results lack cohesion and consist mostly of negative results. To defend my thesis, I need at least one submitted publication, but I feel so far away from achieving that.

Deep down, I sometimes worry this is sort of my fault—that I just haven't worked hard enough because I lost all my motivation. I just don't think I have it in me to push myself to the limit to finish in the little time I have left, and I am 100% sure that I want to pivot away from academia anyway.

At the same time, I struggle with the thought of throwing 4 years of my life away, and I tell myself it is only one more year and the worst has passed. I also feel like having the PhD could still hold real value in industry. Plus, I feel conflicted because my co-supervisor, despite being negligent at times, has always been kind to me and genuinely tried her best after Supervisor 1 abandoned us. I’m also terrified of "starting from scratch" at 30+.

I wonder if I should give it one last push to finally get my PhD, or if, on the other hand, it’s just not worth my time and mental health anymore. I’d like to learn more about omics analysis and data science, and I plan to sudy something during the next academic year.

I’d love to hear your thoughts or perspectives on this.

Did it ever feel like a cult?

Just ended my 10 year career in academia and I have no idea what to do next.

I’m a final-year PhD student preparing for a postdoc interview, and the PI has asked me to give an oral presentation on my dissertation research to his research group over Zoom before moving forward with the in-person interview.

He gave me some flexibility to either:
Present multiple projects from my PhD, or
Focus on selected projects that best highlight my strengths and research interests.

How did you decide what parts of your PhD work to present?
How much detail is appropriate for a ~30–45 min research presentation?
Should I present my dissertation as one coherent scientific story, or present 2–3 separate projects?
How much time should I spend on background vs. experimental design/results?
What level of methodological detail do PIs and lab members usually expect?
How aggressively should I prepare for questions about experimental limitations, controls, doses, model selection, and alternative interpretations?
Should I include future directions, and if so, how much?
What are the “killer questions” I should be prepared for?
Any tips for presenting your PhD work to a PI and their lab rather than to your thesis committee?

Thanks.

Once upon a time, I was the favourite candidate for the next level position. Here comes this new face who does a lot of networking and socialisation with all the male colleagues. He was also ´so lucky' to find a local girlfriend who supported him by inviting people over and all sorts of things people do to show how nice they are so that you think about them when a ´random' position appears. Meanwhile, you spend your time working on your project, alone, far away. Comes the end of the summer holidays and you are told you are not favourite anymore. You had no plan B, no support, no political skills. You cannot compete with a sexist system.

We had a professor couple divorce and it spilled into the workplace. Like even students are aware of what is going on. It has not been contained well at all. Got a new chair that took sides, and it's a bloodbath. Faculty are considering leaving and PhD's are having to make the risk assessment that what happens if their advisor leaves. My advisor and I have not had a good relationship for sometime and this drama is completely enveloping him. He comes to work angry every day now. It used to not be like this.

I already know what I am going to do, I have an escape plan. I'm fortunately only a year into this program. Prior to coming, I had 10 years of engineering experience and 3.5 years at a US national lab. I will be okay. I am just upset that our department is falling apart because some professors are acting like horny teenagers. I really wanted to do this PhD, but staying here is a bad career decision under these terms and conditions.

Let’s talk about the job market, particularly if you are already planning to graduate or just thinking about what to do post-graduation. Our senior colleagues can also contribute to the discussion. Please feel free to share your thoughts, advice, or suggestions!

It is no doubt that the job market is, as some would say, brutal for anyone, especially for one exploring it with a humanities doctorate degree as an international student. We live in an uncertain but interesting world, right?

Given the current climate, what would you like to do with your PhD?

Though I have chosen to leave as the best of possible options after years of precariousness and burnout, I’m feeling completely lost. I genuinely don’t know who I am outside of academia. I’m terrified. Please tell me it gets better.

Edit: Thank you so so much to all of you who took the time to reply to me and shared your thoughts. It’s been such a comfort in a moment of complete overwhelm - and really is helping me start to work things out in my head. It is such an isolating time for so many reasons so I appreciate it very much.