Their concern about their health markers! Observe any keto echo chamber. How often they go get blood tests. How they even wear glucose monitors. That is not the behavior of someone who is convinced what he's doing is healthy.

government/companies made us obsessed from fiber/plants and carbs to protein to sell u shit.

my point is:
u need everything in moderation and based of your health problems. some people need carnivore for autoimmune health, some people need keto for mental health, some people need carb for fitness perfomance and just enjoying food.

everytime we see stupid agenda that going from one angle to another.

- we care about animals but will be sick as hell

- i need my carnivore with 400gr of protein to being dead from liver overload and age like sht(see all carnivore influencers how they aged so badly)

- i need fiber bro 2-3 times more than rda !!! for being stinker !!! bro just add fiber most important nutrients

=

basically government/companies made us obsessed from one point of view to another one, after that selling shit.

before it was cereal, right now it’s pure david protein bar (zero macronutrients, just being dead from rabbit starvation) TO HIT your PROTEIN GOAL!!!!! (wtf?)

make me think opposite. thank you!

I’ve been lurking for a long time in this sub as I’ve long been tempted to try keto to help my mental health. I suffer from a plethora of conditions and I have little hope for my life. What keto promises is obviously very enticing to me, I.e a holistic solution that could help treat multiple of my mental illnesses at once.

Frankly I do not care about the physical health effects (honestly I would gladly take a drug that made me feel great for even 1 year then left me dead) although I do believe it to be suboptimal for muscle building so that’s quite disappointing. I do believe there to be evidence for keto to work for severe mental illnesses studies for which I will link at the bottom here.

I’ve tried a long list of medications and mental health treatments including MAOIs, TMS , Psilocybin, and Ketamine. Many meds are off the table unfortunately due to meds causing dystonia which could be worsened by trialing new meds. Keto is proven to work in refractory epilepsy cases (I can find evidence for that later but I’m going to bed), so I don’t find it a reach that it could help with bipolar or other mental illnesses.

I haven’t seen much good debunking of Chris Palmer here I trust him however I do see many carnivore people and keto people as grifters. The way I view it is that keto can help some people with some mental and physical ailments akin to a medicine, while it may have side effects like a medicine and wouldn’t be optimal for a normal persons health if they don’t need to take it. Carnivore acts as an extreme elimination diet which is why some people feel much better on it, good for them, but again not optimal for everyone.

I tried strict keto tracking my blood levels while they varied I was nearly always in ketosis and usually above 2, I would hit 3 BHB nearly every day and reached over 4 some days . After 35 days I unfortunately did not reach any sort of keto nirvana. But I will try again and give it more time this time. Again I am desperate this is life or death for me, I’m not even living for myself anymore just for my friends and family.

I will be honest I can be somewhat gullible and I do find the nutrition space to be extremely frustrating with so many disagreeing “experts” people claim Ray Peat diet, Keto, Vegan, etc saved their life. I apologize if this is not super articulate I am quite tired but I want to get this out.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-025-03544-8
Keto diet cut depression scores sharply in college students.

https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychiatry/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2022.951376/full
Keto helped treatment-resistant patients with depression, bipolar, and psychosis.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laneur/article/PIIS1474-4422(23)00370-8/fulltext
Keto diet reduced seizures in infants with drug-resistant epilepsy. (Ended up finding an epilepsy study you can surely find more if you want).

https://www.metabolicmind.org/resources/science/the-science/
(For way more studies ^)

Hii, my cousin is thinking of starting keto because she read online that it might make her lose weight and help her come off the pill (she has pcos). Help with evidence to contradict her? even random websites are ok, she doesnt look too much into stuff, the easier the begter (or in general that high meat diet doesnt help those things)

I was just hospitalized with severe malnutrition and electrolyte abnormalities.

No fruit. No vegetables. No grains. No dairy. No supplements.

I genuinely believed I was eating a healthy diet, but in reality I was feeding an eating disorder and slowly depriving my body of nutrients.

Last week everything caught up to me.

I started vomiting and eventually couldn’t keep food or even water down. I became so weak I could barely walk, my vision wouldn’t focus, I was constantly dizzy, and my heart was racing.

By the time I got to the hospital, I weighed 89 pounds.

I was diagnosed with: • Severe malnutrition • Hypokalemia (potassium 2.8) • Hyponatremia (low sodium) • Hypocalcemia (low calcium) • Dehydration • Elevated ketones • Abnormal EKG related to electrolyte abnormalities

I spent several days in the hospital receiving IV fluids, potassium, magnesium, and nutritional support. When I was discharged, my potassium had improved to 3.9.

I’m now home recovering. I’m eating a normal, balanced diet again. I’m still weak and dizzy, but I’m improving every day. I’ve already gained 6 pounds since being admitted.

I’m not here to promote any particular diet or argue with anyone. I’m also not saying everyone who eats a meat-based diet will have the same experience. I’m simply sharing what happened to me.

If you have questions about the hospitalization, recovery, living with an eating disorder, agoraphobia, or what it’s was like to survive this, ask me anything.

Appeal to Nature

The argument:

1. That which is natural is good or right.
2. N is natural.
3. Therefore, N is good or right.

The logical fallacy is 1. However, in the case of Keto/Carnivore, even if we grant that 1 is true, 2 isn't true either.

From Wikipedia:

>The appeal to nature is frequently utilized in commercial advertising because it successfully leverages a deep-seated cognitive heuristic known as the "naturalness bias." This bias causes consumers to quickly and automatically associate the term "natural" with positive attributes such as health, purity, and moral goodness, often overriding the need for scientific evidence. In consumer psychology, research demonstrates the tangible effects of this fallacy on purchasing behavior. For instance, a study by Pornpitakpan (2004) found that framing food or cosmetic products as "natural" not only significantly increased purchase intent but also resulted in a more favorable overall attitude towards the brand. 

Appeal to Incredulity

the argument:

1. I cannot imagine how P could be true; therefore P must be false.
2. I cannot imagine how P could be false; therefore P must be true.

This fallacy is especially clever, because it leverages the audience's incompetence as a warrant.

Let's combine it with the first fallacy:

"I don't understand how a carnivore diet be bad. We've been eating it for thousands of years."

This fallacy is especially insidious because it subtly shifts the burden of proof away from the person making the claim.

False Dilemma

A false dilemma, also referred to as false dichotomy or false binary, is an informal fallacy based on a premise that erroneously limits what options are available. The source of the fallacy lies not in an invalid form of inference but in a false premise.

Example:

"For most people, you can't eat a lot of carbs or be at a healthy weight."

Notice how I added the qualifier "for most people" to seem reasonable. But anyone overweight hearing this will implicitly believe they are "most people"

Special Pleading

Special pleading is an informal fallacy wherein a person claims an exception to a general or universal principle, but the exception is unjustified.

Examples:

1. "I only eat grass fed butter. Those studies don't apply to me."
2. "I'm a lean mass hyper-responder. I'm a unique phenotype that's protected from the dangers of high LDL."
3. "I have a CAC of zero. I'm safe from heart disease despite high LDL."

Now, the user of this fallacy will almost always try to dress it up in some other sciency mumbo-jumbo that is not evidence, or just mechanistic speculation.

https://preview.redd.it/qq0p93zvw6ah1.png?width=1946&format=png&auto=webp&s=29f271727b46f26d55d2bc6a1f27924d9fb7e472

1 is unjustified because there is no scientific evidence. 2 is unjustified because there is no scientific evidence that LMHR are protected from plaque formation (although Norwitz supporters in bad faith will act like you're claiming LMHR don't exist). 3 is unjustified because a Coronary Artery Calcium (CAC) score is a lagging indicator of heart disease. It measures calcified, hardened plaque that has built up in your arteries over many years. Because this buildup is the result of long-term atherosclerosis, the score reflects past damage rather than immediate, acute risk.

We all know fake doctor Eric Berg calls himself "Dr." just because his chiropractor diploma says so (which is not a medical degree).

Now I encountered a very similar scheme with 'Nutrition with Judy' who titles herself "board certified in holistic nutrition" which sounds very legit as it evokes the idea that "board certified" means medical board as in registered doctor or nurse or dietician as it usually does. Nope!

Turns out the board in question is not a medical board, but Holistic Nutrition Credentialing Board ran by National Association of Nutrition Professionals. Just like chiropractors handing out "doctorates", those fellas stamp "board certified" on their diplomas.

There is no such thing as medical board certified holistic nutrition. Holistic nutrition is not a medical degree.

https://www.melvinkonner.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/Paleolithic%20Nutrition%20NEJM%2085.pdf

While this is an old study, it was an inspiration for what became the Paleo diet and is based on the observation and research on in hunter and gatherer tribes, their ecosystems and fossil records.

Our African paleolithic ancestors consumed an estimated average of 392 mg's of vitamin C daily, and keep in mind a whole mango only has 60 mg.

Wild african herbivore adiposity averages just 3.9%, meaning they average at 3.9% body fat meanwhile domesticated livestock animals of today have a higher fat profile because of their breeding and modern feeding methods.

An adult hunter/gatherer with an caloric maintenance of 3,000 calories is estimated to have consumed an average of 333 carbohydrates a day, 45 grams of fiber and only 71 grams of fat.

Tubers, roots, beans, nuts and fruit were commonly consumed.

https://preview.redd.it/6hg0rcgp4m9h1.png?width=1190&format=png&auto=webp&s=d8a9af5dca96fbf8b5eff06ac7ed5e2b76f407a6

I tried keto, don't want to mess with carnivore.

The influencer business model is straightforward as well - keto will cure cancer blah blah. Rubbish.

However, what I dont like about the caloris in vs calories out argument is, while true, doesn't account for how EASY it is to stay in a caloric deficit. Food noise.

If it fits your macros (anyone remember that?) is probably just as much as a diet fad as keto/carnivore. Humans shouldn't need some level of accounting eveyday to make sure they don't overeat.

Should be autoregulating, just like how bad if you sleep poorly your brain and body make you crave food and then you pass out

Yes the main cause of obesity is probably sedentary lifestyles and ultra processed foods. As a European, I can understand how in the USA this can be to the next level - Takis and Doritos in all colours in every isle or 7/11. When I visited as a European I had a laugh. You need to be Europeanised asap.

But there are people who are also in this environment and remain slim, and claim they have a fast metabolism, which is a myth. They effortlessly remain in a caloric deficit.

Vegan, carnivore, keto, balanced, mediterranian you lose as most people ditch all the "posion" (high industrial fats and concentrated sugar caloric abundance over time) stuff.

GLP1 might be adressing this now but before it was a lot of people trying different stuff then regaining whatever. They regain even with GLP1.... So it kind of suggests that people who ARE fat/obese, WERE fat/obese have some genetic/epigenetic stuff that might have to be managed like a chronic condition.

Pre-GLP1 I tried keto (not carnivote - vegetables, olives, meat and fish basically, and yes anecdote I know) and what I felt was some hunger control effect I never expected tbh. I also could resist cravings.

These mechanisms are probably due to hormonal and cellular shifts that occur, alongside the benefits recorded in the literature (but short of the panacea that influences make it out to be). So it is kind of like a tool in the toolbox.

Life made me not stick to it as I had some family tragedies that needed to be managed and it took all my time.

I am overweight but now I am making progress on a diet that is fruit, vegetables, meat and fish...

For some reason, fruit satisfies my Hagen Dazs cravings, and because of the fructose does not spike my blood sugar compared to rice. Even when the rice is an a mixed

That is another point. In a calorie and macros matched diet... I feel a bit different after the rice meal compared to the fruit. Seems like another lever that can be pulled to leverage diet for wellness.

Fruit is accessible, cheap fruits and can eat it directly after washing or peeling so that makes "meal prep" easy. We will see how it goes. I want to try that before GLP1.

I don't think I have any allergies/sensitivies but I can see how someone can have eczema might discover it is triggered by some plant compound or whatnot.

Just how celiac disease or lactose intolerance is many times more common than meat intolerance etc.

What are your thoughts? I didn't come with bad intentions. Just curious.