u/Accurate-Medium1780

I feel like a lot of the 'but who will care for you when you're old' questions come with a kind of resentment in the background - ie, people think childfree folks expect other people's kids to wipe their butts when old in the nursing home or whatever, so they resent that childfree people seem to be banking on tapping a future young adult labor pool they didn't contribute to.

How do you respond to this? I feel like most of us are actually not assuming we're going to make the GenZs or GenA's born to other people wipe our butts; but most childfree women rather:

- are open to some kind of physician assisted suicide in countries/societies where that is an option

- are open to technology (AI, robots) filling this sort of elder-care labor need in the mid-to-long range

NEITHER of which means we're expecting to hire other people's kids to do our grunt labor in old age!!!!

It's interesting watching my own family dynamics, as my siblings and I are generally stepping up far more with my mom than my dad's aging (they are separated).

Dad was totally checked out and often hostile... never did anything with us, had no clue what was going on with us whether school age or young adults, has never bothered to send a birthday card or remember the grandkids' names, was often borderline abusive in terms of verbal and legal aggression against family members and acquaintances. At holidays, to the extent that he was part of them, he sat around expecting everybody else to make it all happen around him and for him (hosting, food, gifts). He's spent his whole life yelling politics at anybody unfortunate enough to be in proximity, and expecting others to make a plate for him.

Mom raised us basically as a single mom even when they were still together throughout my childhood. She wasn't perfect but tried her darndest, has really made an effort to support us emotionally (and even occasionally financially in small ways) through the decades, and more recently to love/engage with the grandkids. In a pretty stereotypical (late 20th century American way?) she both worked part or full time throughout the 80s/90s-present, and also did the lions share of investing in the younger generations her whole life, whether it was organizing the kid birthday parties for us as children, or facilitating holiday time together, remembering baptism birthdays etc. To probably a pathological extent, she did all the home/family physical and mental labor while my Dad did none.

It seems pretty natural now that my adult siblings and I (all late 30s/early 40s) are all making a concerted effort to make sure Mom is okay in old age, but we're generally leaving Dad to his own devices in old age. Like, all 4 of us seem functionally to be taking the same tack.... that multiple of us would be willing to maybe even move her into our own homes if she needed in the decades to come; but are all no-contact or low-contact with Dad and generally unwilling to step into any care responsibilities for him.

Is this common, that because historically women have done a lot of the family/relational work, they do in fact end up better cared for? I guess that would seem generally understandable and just? Or are there a lot of adult kids caring for the aging Dads even if they were the largely checked-out Boomer Dads that seem to have been pretty typical in the late 20th century? (maybe most weren't as checked-out as mine, but in general the gender dynamics from what I can tell of peers' families do seem to suggest that most Dads even in the 1980s and 90s weren't doing much outside of maybe pulling in a paycheck.)

It'll be interesting to see if elder care patterns change as the generations shift? Like, my Millennial husband has really been a full co-parent and friend/partner with me in raising our kids (both working, both fully involved in packing the lunches or taking kids to soccer practice etc), so - NOT that I am expecting my kids to take on any primary caretaker role for us!!! - I can only imagine our kids would have a less gender-bifurcated view of us as old people in 30 years.

Any advice from parents on how to encourage young adult with old parents?

I (38F) am actually asking in regards to my much-younger sister (23F) who seems to really struggle with a sense of FOMO and regret or resentment at our parents being so old already (70M and 68F). There were three of us born in my parent's mid/late 20s and then she was born 17/15/14 years after the rest of us, when parents were in their mid/early 40s.

It didn't used to seem to bother her, but now as a young adult she talks to me a lot about her fears of them already being so old... torn between wanting to spend time with them while still alive vs launch her own life/career, wondering if they'll still be alive when she hits this or that adult milestone, doubting whether they'll be active grandparents as she's seeing them do for the rest of our siblings' kids if hers still aren't likely to be born for 5+ years yet, already doing the math and cognizant that our parents needing elder care/oversight will hit far 'earlier' in her life than for the rest of us.

I don't really know how to comfort or encourage her, since I admit I do kind a feel like she got the short end of the stick though I'd never say or confirm that to her! I mean, her upbringing was a lot wealthier and she got a lot more attention than us older ones did. But I do (quietly) feel bad for her, as she was basically raised as a single child with most of us out of the house and in college by the time she was 4; and most of what she says about our parents pending decline (being probably too old to be involved much with her hypothetical spouse & kids down the road) is... probably true? My kids (elementary age) have already had a lot of good years going on camping trips and playing tennis with my mom, but I do also doubt our Mom is going to be able to keep it up for another 15 years or be active in the same way in Sister's adult family life....

Thoughts? Welcome any insight if you have been on any side of this, as an older parent talking kids of whatever age thru the implications of it, or as child of an older parent who's come to terms with whatever it meant for you?

My 16 month old has been lately screaming loudly if she wakes up during the night, rather than just putting herself back to sleep as she used to. She's always been a easy and pretty solid sleeper and generally goes to bed without a problem, but this sensitivity (needing to be comforted back to bed if she wakes up for whatever reason) is new. She does have a night light but otherwise its dark, and last night when I went up to comfort her, I wondered if she was afraid and not just uncomfortable/mad at being awake. I have several much older kids, but can't remember when developmentally they start getting aware of and scared of the dark?

When I was growing up, I remember my grandmothers and other old people having a sort of dignity, wisdom, and even formal sense of politeness... always about the 'excuse me's' and having their hair done, writing and expecting thank-you notes, etc. Admittedly, it could seem stuffy, but overall I definitely thought of elderly people as arbiters of dignity... like we grandkids /neighborhood kids would help bring in the groceries for the grandma's/old people and that sort of thing, in exchange for them upholding some sort of social standards and wisdom...

But recently and increasingly, I have been so honestly shocked by the rudeness of old people (all 70+ by my guess of it). Just in these last few days:

• woman in the quiet section of the library talking loudly on speaker phone to a realtor, then getting aggressive and annoyed when another old lady complained to the library staff about it; they ended up having a whole cat fight about it and were still loudly at it, when I finally left and went to Starbucks
• man with stomach hanging out lost his flip flop in the CVS parking lot and pointed and ordered (not asked) me to pick it up and bring it to him
• another man literally physically pushing my kid aside to ahead to cut ahead into grocery line
• another woman arrives huffing in Lapcorp (blood draw place) to announce loudly/passive-aggressively to everybody into the waiting room that she was had to get to her sister's house that PM and wishes others would let her go ahead of them; got annoyed at me when I went up when called before her, and only backed down when I explained my series of tests (3 hour glucose test) was time-sensitive since they have to do the blood draws 3x exactly on each hour hence the staff calling me back up when they did; she accepted this but kept grumbling about how at least somebody there should be able to let her go ahead
• even my own Dad is scrolling his phone/Facebook during everything including meals, making it largely pointless to take the kids to see him; gets all angry/feisty like a screen-addicted teenager or something, if anybody asks him to put it away

In general, I don't mind trying to help old people, but what the heck has happened to the dignified old people (or stereotype of old people?) that I remember from my childhood? Were elderly people always this rude, or has it always been this way? Is this inevitable that I'm going to get sloppy and rude as part of aging too?

Curious what you older women think about this... Would it be appropriate to ask my mom not to bring my dad?

I am one of 4 kids. My (38F) Dad (now 70M) has been a difficult, disengaged and yet aggressive person my whole life... completely disengaged from raising us kids so she basically raised us as a single parent; was addicted to drugs throughout my childhood; stole a lot of money from both his siblings' inheritance plus my mom's siblings so burned a lot of extended relations, threatened to sue another of my mom's siblings for an injury he was at fault for at their house, is constantly spewing MAGA/NRA politics even when nobody wants to talk controversies, still doesn't make any positive effort to know us adults kids or our kids in any way that's not haranguing, etc. Sigh... my point is that he's a liability and everybody in the immediate and extended family is slightly traumatized from dealing him over the decades, and wary of him and his threats.

My mom (65F) operates pretty separate from him since they don't get along... Although still married and living in the same house in Southern CA, they are ships passing in the night not talking to each other, and she does a lot of trips (to Peru, to India, to various weekend trips) without him since he's always been a cantakerous and difficult traveler (she always took us kids on road trips alone too, when we were kids since he was no help and just a lot of angry dead weight). He's a complete drag on things and also has zero executive function skills to organize his own travel, so especially these days, he just stays home while she jets around on her own individual travels or group tours or to come see grandkids cross-country.

BUT she keeps bringing him along on annual or semi-annual gatherings when our families (the families of me and my adult siblings and our kids) get together and wants (?) him included for holidays. Like this summer everybody is meeting up at/around my place in PA and she bought flights for him as well as herself to come, gah! He's going to be such a drain, ranting politics all the time, cornering my kids and the other nieces/nephews to make them listen to him pontificate, probably conscripting my husband to help with IT phone/laptop stuff as always seems to happen whenever we see my Dad... all pain, no gain. She seemed to be asking about Thanksgiving/Christmas also, about maybe visiting for the winter holidays -- and I'm afraid she means both of them.

I really don't get why she is subjecting us to dealing with him, when she herself doesn't want to deal with him the rest of the year or on her own vacation travels.

Do you think it is appropriate to ask her at some point to quit bringing him to reunion/gathering/holiday type things? (In broader context, I know my maternal aunt put down her foot and said they refuse to do holidays with my mom and Dad in CA since my mom's sister is tired of putting up with my Dad, and I completely understand why. I kind of want to say the same thing, like 'mom, why are you making us put up with this? just leave him home!') My dad has been so difficult, I'm quite happy to be cross-country away from him, and would kind of gladly never see him again, as terrible as that sounds!

But I don't know if that's really presumptuous to draw that line in the sand with my mom, when they're technically still married and there is probably something kind of rude in normal society about inviting one person but not their spouse?

Musing today... As I'm getting older (38F) and raising a pack of little kids (9, 6, 2, and 1), it seems to me that so much of aging is emotional and volitional embrace of realizing that life really is about setting up the next generations to come even at some cost to the self; and that seems to be the difference between gracious and ugly aging in the older generations above too. My Mom definitely lived her life trying to help me and my three siblings launch into the world okay and she still cares about us, so we're definitely trying to help her as she needs more aide in the elder years (65+). My Dad completely ignored or just harassed us our whole lives and nobody wants anything to do with him, though now at 70+ he seems lonely and to be realizing he burned all his bridges with friends and family. I see the pattern too in my aging peer groups, as they are inevitably making different patterns with their own kids (some always sticking their kids on ipads, others really working to spend quality time with their elementary schoolers) and also reacting to the patterns of mutual care their parents either did or didn't establish (some really close with elderly parents and others leaving selfish parents to their own devices and washing their hands of it). Watching it all, and being in the trenches with my own little kids (weathering through both all the exhaustion and joy of it) shows me there's really no shortcut to these years. We are all tempted in some way to be lazy narcissists probably, but you either do or don't fight that on the daily and weekly basis, and the next generation does know.

Any insight on how to build a new sense of family rootedness and extended family hub in a new place? Did you raise your family far from family?

I (36F) grew up in Southern CA but moved away for school/work/more affordable housing, so am raising my family in PA (Philly suburbs) -- me, husband, and soon-to-be-four kids 9, 6, 1, and newborn.

I'm realizing we'll probably never go back to CA. Definitely can't afford to live there. And recently, my 90-yr old grandma in CA died, and she was really the last reason even to go back to visit for holidays. My parents still live there but it is kind of pointless to visit since my Dad just stays in his office scrolling Facebook, and my Mom is still a bit of a workaholic who doesn't take time off work even if we do fly cross-country to visit with the kids. Now that my SoCal grandmother is dead (who tended to be the 'anchor' person gathering all her kids' families and the myriad grandchildren and great-grandchildren), I'm realizing it's the end of an era not only for her life, but probably for any sense of connection I have to CA. We used to fly out every year for either Thanksgiving or Christmas at great expense and effort and it still seemed possible when we only had 1-2 kids, but now that my spouse and I have 4 little kids the flights are astronomically expensive to fly the family of 6; and there's little reason to do so anymore. It's a little sad to realize maybe I've already seen my parents and some of my aunts/uncles/cousins for the last time.

We do have a good life in Pennsylvania with lots of family friends made thru the kids, and I do hope (though won't/can't pressure of course!) my own kids want to stay here in the general mid-Atlantic region for the long haul... maybe stay in the region for college? raise their own families down the line?

Any hints on how to build or encourage a positive new 'hub' for the extended family we're building? If any of you raised your families in a place far from family but then it became a sort of hub (your own kids and grandkids), how did you do that over the long haul? Did you do emotional/relational things that you think were effective in making them want to stick around? Did you put any limits or perks to their college decisions? Did you lay financial groundwork, like trying to help them in the housing market, that made it feasible for them keep up with cost of living/housing in your area and raise their families closer rather than farther?

Obviously, our kids are just babies and elementary age, so all their own big life decisions are still very far off, but I appreciate any long-range insight you may have!