u/Byrdle99

I’ve posted here before, but will explain the title.

I’ve been trying to get some certified copies of family records dating back to 1926. Specifically a “Petition to naturalize” and an “Oath of allegiance”. I’ve worked diligently over the last 2 months to get this from the clerk of the court, but she absolutely refuses to budge. Always redirecting me to USCIS. These are non federal records. They are simply in a ledger book within her custody. The NARA archives don’t have them. The state historical society doesn’t have them. There are no other copies of this paperwork available outside of her grasp.

USCIS has repeatedly informed me that they do not care about the certified reproduction of these records, as they are non federal. It IS NOT a certificate of naturalization, just the paperwork leading up to that in a district court.

I’ve called numerous clerks of the court in different counties, and they would happily certify this document for me, if they had it in their possession. There are no laws preventing the certification of what I need.

I literally just got off the phone (not but 5 minutes before writing this) with the county attorney, and she said that she won’t pressure the clerk to fulfill her legal duty to make certified copies for me. She won’t elaborate as to why, but just informed me that I could go ahead and sue the clerk of the court, and have the district judge come to a verdict on it. Obviously, that’s not what I want to do, but in accordance with the Montana State constitution, the clerk is violating civil rights, and freedom of public paperwork.

I live 9 time zones ahead of Montana. I don’t really want to have to go there. I don’t want to pursue litigation of a state employee in their own courthouse. When I asked the county attorney if that’s a conflict of interest to sue within their own courthouse, she simply said “the judge will determine that, and substitute another judge if necessary”. The county attorney also refused to cite any laws that the clerk could possibly operating under. The least helpful people I’ve ever encountered.

I have been nice, I’ve been patient. I don’t know what else I could possibly do at this point. I don’t want to spend money on lawyers fees, when they are just blatantly wrong.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for letting me vent.

Well, I’ve posted before, and have a very good timeline, will all necessary documents. Feel free to shoot away with any questions, or comments

Here it is:

I’ve been in contact with the consulate in LA. I was trying to see if they would allow a direct to passport application for my grandmother. Her grandfather emigrated to the US in 1910, married January 1915, had his son in August 1915, and naturalized in 1926.
A completely unbroken chain of descent, where all laws are followed, and just due to timing, no discriminatory laws apply to my family

Their only problem with the documents I sent was a “marriage license” instead of a “marriage certificate” for her grandparents from 1915. Not a big deal, I can research, and see if I can get the other document (I don’t even know the difference quite yet)

In the end, they said to apply for a “certificate of citizenship” (this is Feststellung, right? The consulate specifically stated the wait was 2-2.5 years). Their whole reasoning was because they only wanted to do direct to passport applications for people who had a German passport issued to every generation before the last. Her father obviously never had a German passport, and probably didn’t even know he was eligible/was a citizen. They also weren’t really keen on the last German document (an original reisepass, expired in 1911) being the most recent German document, as it is “more than a century ago”

Obviously if I need to apply to Feststellung, I absolutely will, but it’s just disappointing with such a rock solid case

The clerk of the court for Pondera county refuses to certify documents I need from an ancestors naturalization. They are district documents for a petition to naturalize, and an oath of allegiance. I’ve cited the Montana Constitution, and a multitude of MCA’s she is operating contrary to. As I see it, I have an entitlement to certified copies of these documents- correct me if I am wrong. Furthermore, the docs I need are plastered all over the internet, and are very publicly accessible. They are just in a ledger book with the clerk.

She said to go through USCIS. I spoke with USCIS on the phone, and multiple emails, and they said that since they are local documents from 1926, they don’t control the release, or certification of what I need.

After contacting the counsel of records, a different clerk of the court said, and I quote: “They follow the 1974 Order that directs them that they may provide copies - just not certified copies.”

I’ve spoken to other district clerks that would happily certify these documents for me, if they were in their possession- seems like no one is on the same page about the reason I cannot get them, and the clerks cannot force each other to do anything.

I spoke with the 9th district Judge’s secretary, and she said she spoke with the clerk, and to go through USCIS, as directed by the clerk of the court. The judges secretary will no longer call me back, or respond to my emails over the last few weeks- she initially responded within 4-5 hours.

I also spoke with the head notary/apostille service through the Secretary of State, and she said they get these documents from people who requested them from the courts all the time and it isn’t any issue.

Called the County Attorney, and she said she would talk with the clerk, but if she cannot convince her, I may have to file a writ of mandamus, and sue the court itself.

Anyone have any advice for getting these things I need, or the next steps I need to make?

I’ve definitely left out some details, but if you have questions, please feel free to ask.
(Historical society does not have these records on microfilm, so that is not a route I can take; spoken with the state genealogist)

This is probably the most niche question I could ask, but here goes-

Trying to get a certified copy of my ancestors Petition for Naturalization, and Oath of Allegiance from the Pondera county courthouse in Montana. These documents are from 1926. Clerk of the court will not release these documents to me, as she believes 8 USC §1454 d) applies to said documents. She will only release them with explicit written permission from the Attorney General, or a court order.

I called the Montana state attorney general, and they directed me that they didn’t know, and to reach out to the federal district attorney general for Montana. I called their office, and they told me they didn’t have a clue what I was talking about, and didn’t know any way to help.

Left at a standstill, I called the 9th district Judge of Montana, and they directed me to USCIS. USCIS directs me to their genealogy program, but also said the statute listed above does not apply to these non federal documents. It’s not the N-550 form, it’s local court documentation that they have the originals of.

Of everyone I’ve tried to reach out to, who may have a copy of these documents all state that the clerk of the court is interpreting the law incorrectly, but she won’t budge. These institutions include:

1. NARA archives in Denver
2. Montana historic society (a governmentally run org)
3. USCIS rep I spoke to (I don’t really know if they’d know)

How do I go about getting a court order to release these documents, or who do I try and talk to next to retrieve certified copies. I feel like I’ve exhausted my options at this point.

Thanks for any advice!

This is probably the most niche question I could ask, but here goes-

Trying to get a certified copy of my ancestors Petition for Naturalization, and Oath of Allegiance from the Pondera county courthouse in Montana. These documents are from 1926. Clerk of the court will not release these documents to me, as she believes 8 USC §1454 d) applies to said documents. She will only release them with explicit written permission from the Attorney General, or a court order.

I called the Montana state attorney general, and they directed me that they didn’t know, and to reach out to the federal district attorney general for Montana. I called their office, and they told me they didn’t have a clue what I was talking about, and didn’t know any way to help.

Left at a standstill, I called the 9th district Judge of Montana, and they directed me to USCIS. USCIS directs me to their genealogy program, but also said the statute listed above does not apply to these non federal documents. It’s not the N-550 form, it’s local court documentation that they have the originals of.

Of everyone I’ve tried to reach out to, who may have a copy of these documents all state that the clerk of the court is interpreting the law incorrectly, but she won’t budge. These institutions include:

1. NARA archives in Denver
2. Montana historic society (a governmentally run org)
3. USCIS rep I spoke to (I don’t really know if they’d know)

How do I go about getting a court order to release these documents, or who do I try and talk to next to retrieve certified copies. I feel like I’ve exhausted my options at this point.

Thanks for any advice!

Anyone know how to, or can help me make an appointment at the Landesarchiv Berlin, with requested documents?
I’ve found out how to book an appointment, but can’t for the life of me figure out how to request documents for their reading room. I don’t want to go to Berlin, and not get what I am looking for, so it would be great to have it available for when I can go. I have the citation number “Laufende Nummer”, so I don’t assume it is too difficult to pull. It’s a birth registration from 1890. I assume it’s here only because of the publication citation I found for it online- please correct me if you think I am wrong (it was made in Laskowitz, but transported to Berlin?)

Thanks for the help, and advice. Hopefully this is the last thing I really need for an attempt at direct to passport application

Not a legal situation, as no course of action has occurred, except blatant (typed, not printed) threats via email. Here’s the story-

I ordered a party of 4 to climb mount Elbrus, through a company registered in the UK, who hired Russian guides, and provided logistical services

As an American party going to the Federation of Russia, I kept in good spirits, and minded my P’s and Q’s. Don’t want to make a big deal of myself, as it’s just not worth it while there

Services provided were exceptionally poor for the price point. Some things in the contract were not provided at all- didn’t get the opportunity to hike the highest point, only the second highest. There was no weather, or party condition that would have prevented going to the other summit. Guides were promised to speak English. None of them did, with the exception of basic words like “water” “yes” “do this”. Below extremely basic levels of understanding

Gear rental went smoothly, paid the shop owner the required amounts, and he was good with us. Company I hired said we owed a lot of money for gear, and the money we paid the shop was to finish the payments for the trip, which I had paid in full over 6 months previously, and until we paid that, they’d just abandon us in Russia. Definitely didn’t want that, so I paid it

Since card transactions don’t work in Russia due to sanctions against them, all transactions were in cash. They pretty much shook us down with verbal threats of abandonment in Russia, so a relatively scared party of mine paid them the cash we had. We’ll call it somewhere between $2000-2500 in total. Again, the trip was entirely paid for months previously, with no expectations of payment needed

I call the bank, explain the situation against the company, and it seems s though they’ve favored on my side that a chargeback was appropriate. It’s still a little too new to guarantee that I get all of it, as they could counter dispute- no worry on that if I lose. I expected to pay that much for the trip, just not the cash aspect, and being treated very, very poorly

I’ve received an email from the company throwing around some jargon saying I owe them money, they’ll permanently ban me from entering Russia, and they will get their money back.

Should I worry about this email? Does it actually have any sort of weight to it?
They are a UK and Russia based company. If they wanted to pursue anything, wouldn’t it be too much hassle to do that internationally, and establish a footprint in my home state to do so?

Thanks for any advice. If I broke any rules, please let me know, and I will immediately correct them. I am not looking for legal opinions, just general opinions on this threatening email involving “potential litigation”

Have a good day!

Good morning everyone

My grandmother is trying to go for the direct passport route at the German consulate in Phoenix, and I just want to make sure I have strong enough paperwork for them to not question her, and not go through Feststellung-

Her grandfathers original passport. If I have that, do I need to go through to trouble to try and obtain a Metleregister?
A certified copy of her grandfathers “Oath of Allegiance”, which also includes his petition for naturalization, and the date he was naturalized from the courthouse where he lived in Montana. It IS NOT the Naturalization Certificate from USCIS. Yes, he naturalized after his son was born

She has everything she’ll possibly need from herself, and her father

Just making sure she has a strong enough case.

If you have any questions, I’m free to answer them. Thanks for all the help!

Good afternoon everyone. I am looking for naturalization paperwork for my great-great-grandfather. His details are as follows:

Alexander Stolingwa. Born 15th July 1890 in Gleiwitz, specifically Laskowitz Germany. At the time, it was Prussia, but is now Gliwice Poland (from what I know).

On the 11th of September 1910 he emigrated from Bremen Germany to Ellis island.

In 1915 he lived in Stevens county Minnesota.

On the 6th of October 1911 he filled out paperwork with the intent to naturalize, but it seems like this never went through.

In 1917 he moved to Conrad Montana, in Pondera county, where he would spend the rest of his days until 1955.

From the 1940 census, he is listed as German, with “AP”- he filled out another intent to naturalize in Montana on the 10th of July 1919.

On the 25th of December 1925, he received a letter stating that he could petition his naturalization with the two witnesses stated on his preliminary facts form

This next part is based off of what my great-grandmother remembers, and not hard fact, thought it aligns with the census date listed above:

His naturalization came through, and he received US citizenship between 1946, and 1950 (1940 census listed as German, 1950 census listed as USA citizenship)

She remembers being married (she married in 1946) and seeing him become naturalized was one of his happiest days.

All I can find are petitions to naturalize, but not the paperwork he received to become a US citizen. I need this specific paperwork for trying to apply for German citizenship by descent
If you happen to stumble upon his (or his fathers- Johann Stolingwa) Metleregister from Germany, that would also be absolutely amazing, and beyond appreciated as well

Thanks for all the help! I really do appreciate the community, and any assistance provided

If you need to see specific documents, feel free to PM me, and we can discuss that.

Thanks!

I’ve made a previous post on a different account about eligibility and paperwork. I have a few further questions, and I’ve found some more original paperwork my great aunt has. Here is the story-

I believe I am eligible for citizenship due to the following:

My great-great-grandfather was born in 1890 in Gleiwitz to German (or Prussian) parents. He emigrated to the US in 1910 from Bremen Germany to Ellis island.
In January 1915 he married my great-great-grandmother. In August 1915, in wedlock they had a child: my great-grandfather

Skipping forward a couple decades

My great-grandfather married his wife in 1946. They had my grandmother in 1952. From what I can tell, citizenship is passed on
My grandmother was married to my grandfather in 1974. They had my mother in 1976. Again, citizenship passed on I believe

My mother had me (out of wedlock, but I believe that is irrelevant- father isn’t even on my birth certificate) in 1999. I believe I could be eligible for citizenship

I’ve done a lot of research on the lineage of my family now, and here is what I have found:

From my family, I have my great-great-grandfathers original passport (Reise-Pass) that expired in August 1911. Again, he emigrated to the US in September 1910

I also have his original military discharge paperwork (ausmufterungsfdjein, I think) from June 1910. Is this good enough to prove his German citizenship? I have found the utmost difficulty finding his Metleregister. I have found his original birth certificate, but it’s pre 1914 and I know the German consulate won’t directly accept that as citizenship, but Feststellung will- just trying to have my grandmother direct apply for a passport if that’s an option, and I have enough documentation

I will need to find his US naturalization paperwork through NARA or another source if anyone has a good lead. I’ve narrowed it down to between 1946 and 1949, so it’s well after my great-grandfather was born (naturalization paperwork states entry date into the US?)

I also have certified copies of all marriage and birth certificates from everyone else in my family, so that isn’t a problem

No one in my family has applied, or received any citizenship other than US citizenship given at birth

Based off of this, would I have enough information, and paperwork for my grandmother to directly apply for a passport at the consulate, and I could get mine after she has hers?

Any information at all would be amazing!
If someone knows how to better read old German certificates, I’d be willing to share what I have if you’re able to translate, and assist me

Thanks all for the time! It is much appreciated