u/Disastrous_Trash1729

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/used-car-pricing-data-reveals-widespread-deceptive-fees/ar-AA2734Av

I know it's not a good idea to try and get statistical information from someplace like Reddit or Facebook, but I've been thinking for a while that the current poor sales climate (according to some of the headlines I've seen) is an example of the "chickens coming home to roost" because of sleazy dealer practices.

When dealers load down new and used vehicle sales with zero-value add ons to increase the price, and roll that into the loan, they put the buyer into a situation where they will never NOT be underwater on their vehicle. 72 month and 84 month loans on cheap used shitbox cars are just insanity.

How many Reddit posts have you seen where someone writes "I bought a [insert name of cheap car] in 2022 for $24,000 and now it needs a new transmission and head gasket and I still owe $16,000 on it, and even if it was in perfect condition, it would only be worth $8000. What do I do?"

Well, good question. No dealer with a lick of sense is going to roll $8k worth of negative equity into a new loan, and even if they did, that would just bury the buyer deeper into a loan that will never be paid off. Short of rolling the car off a cliff and filing a bogus insurance claim, or winning the lottery, I'm not sure what a buyer can do in that situation except maybe declare bankruptcy.

But so many dealers made so much money during the Covid years selling vehicles at way over their actual value, that now their "pool" of potential customers simply can't afford to get another car because they are buried so deep in the rusty shitbox they have now.

I don't really know enough about the car industry to know what happens next, do car manufacturers start cutting back on manufacturing so they don't have vehicles that sit on their lot gathering dust? I'm really not sure how much they can cut price to sell cars when their customers likely can't afford to buy ANY new car at ANY reasonable price.

I'm fortunate to be in a situation where, barring an accident (knock wood!) we likely won't have to buy a new vehicle for several years yet. But I feel for people who NEED a vehicle and have to try and buy in this predatory sales environment.

I'm just wondering if dealers will ever re-think their "zero value add-ons" policy that they seem to have become addicted to (I call them 'zero value' because they cost the dealer nothing since probably only a fraction of a percent of customers actually invoke that "tire warranty", "Battery warranty", "paint protection" or "fabric protection.")

I knew salesmen were sleazeballs, but I never knew it was this bad... I was buying a new Honda and after getting them to remove all the dealer addons, they showed me a price sheet with MSRP, minimal fees, and sales tax. That looked good to me. Except when I read the total it was 1.5k more than I had calculated at home on an MSRP deal. I was genuinely so confused I just started at the paper for 30 seconds trying to figure out how this was possible. Turns out the "Sales Tax (estimated) " row was like 10% of the price. In Texas our sales tax is around 6%. I asked the guy why sales tax is 3k and he said yeah the sales tax is 6% around here. I'm like "THATS NOT 6%". Apparently he accidentally inputted a california address (????) when making the sheet. I'm assuming they thought I would just check the otd number so they could raise the base price later. Still bought the car from them after they removed it but holy shit I read everything very closely after that.

I wanted to share this from personal experience because I still see people asking what reliable used car they should buy.

I’ve been around the car resale business for more than 10 years, and my family also ran a rental fleet of around 50 cars for about five years.

Some of the models we had included Toyota Corolla, Camry, Prius, Sienna, RAV4, Highlander, Lexus ES350, Lexus RX400h, Honda Fit, Accord, Odyssey, Acura TSX, Hyundai Elantra, Accent, Sonata, Kia Sedona, Nissan Sentra, Dodge Caravan, BMW X3/X5, Mercedes S-Class, Land Rover LR2, and Mazda Miata.

Rental cars get used hard, so you learn pretty quickly which cars age well. At one point, we were repairing something almost every week: accident damage, tires, engine issues, transmission issues, electrical problems, sliding doors, oil leaks, etc.

This is not a scientific ranking. It’s just my personal tier list based on how often we had to repair these cars and how painful the repairs were.

S Tier:
Toyota Corolla, Camry, Prius, Sienna, RAV4, Highlander
Lexus ES and RX

These were the best overall. Not exciting, but very dependable. Maintenance was straightforward, parts were easy to find, and most repairs were manageable.

A Tier:
Honda Odyssey, Honda Accord, Honda Fit

The Hondas held up well too. The Odyssey especially did better than I expected for a minivan. Certain models we had(Odyssey) need timing belt replacement at high mileage but other than that, it's similar to Toyota.

B Tier:
Mazda Miata, Hyundai Elantra, Hyundai Accent, Hyundai Sonata, Kia Sedona, Nissan Sentra

These were more case-by-case. Some were fine, but I would care a lot more about condition, mileage, and maintenance history. We did have one Hyundai and one Kia that needed engine replacement, one Sonata need a blind side assist system replacement that was expensive. But the others were generally okay.

C Tier:
Land Rover LR2, BMW X5, Mercedes S-Class, Dodge Caravan

The Land Rovers was actually more fun to drive than expected, and it lasted a few years without major issues, which exceeded my expectation. Still, repairs are not cheap when they come up.

The BMW X5 lasted about a year before it started giving us problems.

The Mercedes S-Class developed a lot of oil leaks after a few years, and the cabin electronics were not very stable.

The Dodge Caravan gave us problems with the engine, sliding doors, electrical system, and general build quality. It was practical, but it caused a lot of repairs.

Some lessons I learned:

If you care most about reliability, start with Toyota, Lexus, or Honda.

A cheap used luxury car older than five years can become expensive very quickly.

If you really want a German luxury car, I’d rather buy a newer one and sell it within a few years, or lease one short-term.

Regular maintenance helps avoid bigger problems later.

The cheapest car is not always the best deal. Learn how to check for problems or scams like odometer tempering, mechanical, or title issue before buying.

Curious what other people would put in S Tier or avoid completely.

Posting only for visibility, going through the conventional and legal channels. Gotta share this here though.

Bought a 2019 F150 for $36K cash, got independent PPI that cleared big issues, brought to a Firestone (the only remotely reputable in-network shop within 30 mi of me) for a new CV joint. They broke the first one they put in so had to do it twice but whatever.

Notice at 10 day of ownership that it doesn't like to go into reverse and bucks at specific MPHs when its still warming up. Put a code reader on it and it says it's only gone 20 mi since DTCs cleared, suggesting that Carvana flashed the trans before they gave it to me. Straight fraudulent behavior but whatever I got a warranty no biggie. Thought they might pull something like this.

Not taking it back to that Firestone for transmission work so bring it to another in-network shop UCS Auto in San Bruno. Told within 2 hrs of dropping it off that it needs a new transmission, no diagnostic details given. Told SilverRock inspector would be out to confirm 2 days later. Guy doesn't show. INspecton moved to another 2 days later. Guy doesn't show. Inspection moved to the following week. After getting on the phone with SIlverRock for hours begging them to come inspect it/ explain why he keeps not showing up, guy shows, get a call from the shop saying they are gonna put in a FORD REMANUFACTURED part with a FORD WARRANTY. I'm like sick that's awesome. Gonna take a week to come in.

Told the shop don't put the thing in until I can pull the serial and manufacture date to make sure it's not covered by this recall: NHTSA campaign 25E070 (Ford equipment recall 25SB3) which has a missing bearing that causes cars to roll away when parked. They said it's not a Ford, can't tell where it's from. I get on the phone with SilverRock for 2 hours trying to get any information on this part. They AS A POLICY won't give out the manufacturer, date of manufacture, company providing the warranty, terms of the warranty, QC metrics / dyne testing NOTHING. Only info I managed to get the shop to give me is it's from Aesop Auto Parts Southwest which has a track record (https://www.bbb.org/us/mo/kansas-city/profile/used-and-rebuilt-auto-parts/aesop-auto-parts-llc-0714-1000060820/complaints) of putting in straight junk yard parts and calling them re-manufactured. Also the transmission shows up without the cooler which states that if the old cooler is re-used they void the warranty.

Silver rock continues to promise that they will get a case manager assigned to me when I call, told this 3 times. Whenever I call back they say 'wow you don't have a case manager, let me get that taken care of right away' straight lies. Will keep y'all posted, but basically the plan is to just take the car to a ford dealer and eat the out of network deductible. Maybe they won't install junk parts?

Shout out Shannon, Joan, Brintey (yeah not Britney), Maria, Antonio, Linda from Carvana/SilverRock for all the help.

I’m curious how people here decide when a used car is no longer worth pursuing.

A lot of listings can look good at first: decent price, reasonable mileage, clean photos, and maybe even a clean title. But once you start talking to the seller, checking records, test driving it, or getting an inspection, there can be signs that the car is more risk than it’s worth.

Some examples I’d be cautious about:

• Seller avoids direct questions
• No maintenance records
• Price seems too good compared to similar cars
• Recent codes were cleared
• Mismatched tires or uneven tire wear
• Warning lights, leaks, smoke, or weird noises
• “Just needs a cheap fix”
• Seller pushes urgency or refuses a pre-purchase inspection
• Title issues, accident history, or ownership gaps
• Car looks detailed but mechanically neglected

For people who have bought used cars before, what red flags make you immediately walk away?

Are there any signs that seem minor to a first-time buyer but usually point to bigger problems?

Hello, back in March, I purchased a used 2023 Nissan kicks from a big name dealership in St. Louis Missouri. I paid everything on time and never received a late notice or saw any fees.

Two weeks ago, I walked out of my home to go to work and realized my car was gone. No one knew where it was. I called the bank and confirmed it wasn’t repoed by them. So I called. The police and reported it stolen.

Jump to last Friday, I get a call that police have located the vehicle. It was repoed by another bank. Apparently, the previous owner had accumulated a ton of late charges so the repo truck was called out.

I could not get my vehicle back until I paid the repo company’s fee to get it back (a couple hundred bucks) I genuinely was upset so I refused to pay it and left without my car.

What confused me is the vehicle was already titled and registered in my name. The plates on the Nissan are mine. How does this happen?

I went to the dealership today because the police advised me to and they didn’t really help. They kinda just threw money at me to pay the repo fee to get my car back but they didn’t want to do nothing else. I spent a good amount of money on Ubers and Lyfts to get to work, police station, and dealership twice. Was this even the dealerships fault ? Can more be done about this ?

TLDR: my car was repoed because previous owner didn’t pay their debts. Dealership gave me money to pay repo fee but won’t do nothing else. What can I do about this ?

I’ve been going to the GM dealership where I purchased my truck new in 2023 for scheduled maintenance exclusively.
In August of last year I got the oil changed and tires rotated costing $88.37 including parts, labor and shop fees.
Yesterday, I had the same work done plus an alignment. The oil change and tire rotation cost $146.48.
I went over the billing breakdowns for all of my service there and their price for the oil and filter has not changed since my first oil change on this vehicle in early 2024 but the labor cost increased by 246%!
The labor cost for the tire rotation increased by 83% since my last visit.
I called them today to see if I could get an explanation for these rather exorbitant price hikes and was taken aback when
one of the options in their automated call menu was “price increase” right after “make a service appointment” and “check my vehicle status”.
The service manager was on the line with someone else so I left a message for a callback. I can’t wait to hear what they have to say.
Anyone else seeing dealership service labor prices skyrocketing like this?