u/Due-Veterinarian5733

If Silver were to tell the cast that Shadow/Surge/Omega, anyone with reason to actually kill Eggman, causes Sage to become a worse threat in his future, and that altering the past hasn’t worked, would anyone believing him? And why not? With certain circumstances, Eggman’s death could cause her to become a worse threat than her father and Metal.

Context: Surge asks Silver to take them back to the last so they’re never kidnapped by Starline. Silver disagrees, as he argues doing so could have dire consequences. Not accepting this answer, Surge claims she’ll go after the ones responsible: Eggman, because they believe he’ll be an easier target, then Sonic. Shadow stops the two from leaving, as Silver’s explained to Shadow, the murder of Eggman could create a threat worse than Eggman or Metal: Sage. With evidence, Shadow believes Silver. In an even fight, where it’s two on two, who wins? Not to the death, as no one yet, has found a way to permanently kill the duo due to their regeneration.

An interesting thought crossed my mind. With Chaotix Case Files having reintroduced G.U.N. Back into the narrative (likely going underground after Eggman seemingly “put them in their place” during Forces), how would G.U.N. and Team Dark handle/interact with Surge and Kit causing mayhem everywhere? Such as, if that chaos spread to Station Square, or some remote GUN base near where more Mobians live? Take them alive and out in a cell? Do that but reach out to offer them a better purpose to help protect the world? Kill them on sight? I can see Shadow and the others trying to deescalate, but then go with GUN and eliminate the duo if they try to endanger civilians. Starline could also be on their list too.

Picture this, the freedom fighters are a guerrilla group on a remote location. They fight in the war in Forces, but barely saw action, due to being so isolated. But for this continuity, their origins are tweaked. For example, Nicole’s origin is GUN creating her after they meet Sage for the first time when she easily hacks through their firewalls to steal sensitive files and crash their systems. Resulting in GUN, having been revealed to have observed the events of Frontiers after going underground following their defeat by Eggman in Forces. They then use that information to create an AI of their own with the Ancient’s tech. But unlike Sage, it’s on purpose. They make her a Lynx, rather than a human girl like Sage, so Team Dark and Sonic’s allies find it easier to coordinate with her. While Sage is superior in intellect, cunning, and power, Nichole is more creative in her strategy, and can think on her feet. This being a counter to Sage. Until of course, Sage learns from the fight, and with a Eggman’s help, learns from her experience with Belle to think in the moment rather than shutting down when there are no parameters to inform her decisions. Sage then becomes personally livid, as she sees Nichole as a rival, and “inferior program to delete”. Which of course makes Eggman’s proud, as Sage finally has her own rival to hate.

Saw a YT short one day, where a content creator mentions, Sage could make Eggman worse. As in, more dangerous, of Sage perished and she’d be lost for good. Essentially, history could repeat just as it did when Dr Gerald lost Maria. But, what if the opposite occurred? Sage losing Eggman-witnessing him die due to Shadow, Surge, or someone else with reason to end him, killing Ivo-and crashing out in grief and rage, as she seeks revenge. Unleashing a “Judgement Day” type of retaliation-GUN bases destroyed by orbital lasers, entire nations nuked, and the resulting wasteland plagued with a new Metal Virus worse than the last, creating a world half infected as she assimilates enemies and the unwilling survivors to her will via roboticization, or becoming Zombots. This being the catalyst for Silver’s darker future. She may be powerful and smart, but Sage is still a kid, she would not take Eggman’s murder well.

It was hard enough for Atlas to carry the world on his back. But one person carrying two?! It can’t be done. Not to a good enough affect. The answer isn’t erasing the Avatar permanently. We’ve seen from Aang’s absence that ending the Avatar wouldn’t end well for the Spirit or Physical worlds. Nor is it leaving the fate and responsibilities of two worlds on one person’s shoulders. What Pavi and future Avatar’s need, are an organization like White Lotus to help delegate, and a team like Aang and Korra had-a trusted individual from each Nation-to help the Avatar learn perspective from each Nation and culture. An Avatar alone can change the world. But rather than mend it all and keep it secure, it’s more like mending cracks in a pillar, as more are created under the weight it holds, the next Avatar is the builder that mends the strain. But the pillar continues to form new cracks. Until it all collapses under the weight. We need a team to help each new builder mend the pillar fully, or make a new one with better tools and quality. Each architect has a new crack in the pillar to mend, but one Avatar alone cannot fully fix it under the weight it holds. A team or council is needed to better carry the weight of both worlds, and keep the pillar from cracking less. Before you say “such a council would have biases”. Every Avatar has been bias or focused their attention elsewhere than where it should be. A permanent answer to keep the pillar steady is needed, all Avatars up until now, has been a temporary fix in a different area. Leading to another crack to form.

Some time after Sonic Rush Adventure, Eggman Nega was retconned to becoming Silver’s primary nemesis. Rather than being Blaze’s nemesis and dimensional counterpart parallel to Ivo (Eggman) Robotnik. While Nega has the appearance and ability to be Silver’s enemy, Sage makes a better foil to Silver.

•Silver looks to the future, optimistic and hopeful, fighting for freedom. Silver goes headfirst into his decisions, naive.

•(Neo) Sage is shackled to the last via Eggman’s legacy, though she builds her own empire, Eggman’s memory lingers in her mind, bleak, cold, and cruel as she desires total control. Sage calculates every factor in her simulations, thinking before acting.

•While Blaze can be hot headed with a bad temper, and seeks peace and protects the continued survival of her world.

•Eggman Nega is cool, composed, and goes a step further than Ivo-having no qualms with ending the world, especially if backed into a corner.

If Sega and Sonic Team made a comic spinoff series, or even a Blaze The Cat spinoff game that retconned Nega into being Blaze’s villian (again), and Sage as Silver’s I’d personally have no problem with it.

Credits:
@TrizzieFrizzie
@Espen “Emotwo”

What makes Surge so compelling as a rival/antagonist/anti-hero, is she directly challenges Sonic’s world view, his principles, and the flawed faults of his logic of “eveyone can change if you give them the chance to try”. Where Shadow holds Sonic accountable all the time, she directly calls Sonic out. “I, am your fault”! Which, she has a good point, despite echoing Starline’s view of Sonic and Eggman’s “cycle”, what she sees as a petty, pointless, rivalry of madness, she’s right. She says “Look at me, I’m the result of when your principles fail, your flawed logic, when you let your villans kill again. How many more lives will have to die/be ruined until you kill the bastards”?! Sonic agues: “Everyone can change and deserves the freedom to choose. And can change if they try”. Where Shadow and maybe Surge argues “Freedom does not mean freedom of responsibility”! Shadow would kill Sonic’s whole rogues gallery given the opportunity, he’s not willing to let evil roam free and endanger the world.

Surge is just Shadow and his argument, but less restrained. More rage, wrath, and anger, especially towards Sonic for perpetuating this cycle, and being responsible given Eggman and Starline’s actions were motivated by Sonic, making him responsible for her and Kit’s creation by proxy. Surge is the Shadow we see at the beginning of SA2, and in Shadow The Hedgehog (2005). Lost, angry, enraged, looking for something/someone to blame and target his wrath on. In short, she’s him before he “Lived and Learned”.

However, the one crucial difference between her and Shadow is this: Shadow had/has Gearld and Maria, his first family, and the promise he’d made, as his moral compass; and his past, however dark and traumatic, to tether him, and keep him grounded. Surge had all that taken from her and erased. She’s the Shadow in Shadow The Hedgehog (2005) if he’d never remembered and chose wrath.

Shadow would argue to her: “I will give you ONE chance. You can be the monster he made you to be, and the villian they see you as. Or, you can be more. If you are willing, I can help you”.
Surge: “Or”?
Shadow: “Or I bury you where you stand”.

Up till now, Surge and Kit’s fights have been very conditional. Of course, it depends on the writer, but if it takes one of many brutal “reality checks” for Surge (and maybe Kit) to learn “freedom doesn’t mean freedom of responsibility” it’d be Sage and Metal getting payback on Surge and Kit. Arguably, Sage seems nerfed or more vulnerable on Eggman’s Eggnet vs when she was connected to Cyberspace, and Metal, like any machine, is weak to electrical currents and water. Many seem to forget, her being a child, Sage can be as ruthless and dangerous as Eggman, maybe more if she was pushed to evolve further to a worse threat than Metal or her father. Considering they have the means and motive, given feats and abilities, it begs the question: would Sage and Metal crush Surge and Kit? Given Metal was jumped and out numbered 2 to 1? Would it be a stalemate/tie? There’s also the consideration Sage could just throw around Surge and Kit like ragdolls by hacking their cybernetics and the more stable metal virus in their systems. While Starline would’ve made it so Eggman can’t hack Surge or Kit, we don’t know if he knew of Sage’s existence during the metal virus arc. If not, chances are he didn’t account for her. If the two need the lesson: “just because you’ve suffered tragedy doesn’t mean the world owes you a damn” Sage and Metal would be the messengers.

TLDR: Considering Sage and Metal would have the method, means (their abilities that can counter Sonic and Tails just as they’d counter Surge and Kit), and motive (for Sage, they tried to kill Eggman and thrashed Metal, for Metal the honor of killing Sonic before Surge/personal pride/revenge), could they actually beat Surge and Kit? Depends on the writer, but the two could fight extra hard, knowing Eggman’s plans for them would be worse than what Starline put them through.

With the latest Sonic IDW issue coming up being the sequel 6 part arc of Sonic and co crossover with DC/tge Justice League again, we see some panels that suggest a little banter between Bat-Shadow, Batman, and Damian Wayne. While I can see him relating to the anger, weapon/assassin bread Robin, I feel Cain matches Shadow a little in more in the one of the big aspects of his character: his dark past, more specifically, being made into a living weapon for others’ purposes. Cassandra is just as, if not more dark, than Damian, but I feel she reaches the “living weapon” trait a litter higher than Damian. As we see by her social skills and mentality JUST how deeply her training affected her. Where Damian was breed to be a leader and assail, the Court of Owls’ Talons’ were monsters, Cassandra was MADE to be a weapon. Her mind storing more information on how to kill, she never fully learned social skills. All she knew was: analyze a target, and kill it by any/all means. Whereas a Shadow knew was rage, a purpose as a cure, and for a short time, kill all of humanity and all who stand in his way. Cassandra’s introverted, quiet demeanor as a result of her upbringing, even matches Shadow’s attitude as well!

Where Batman parallels Shadow’s loss, and Damian his creation for some purpose or destiny chosen for him, Cassandra Caine parallels Shadow’s dark past as a living weapon.

It’s no longer a moral debate/delimma why you “shouldn’t kill Eggman”. The looming apocalyptic threat and crash out of Sage as consequence of Eggman’s death/murder presents a threat akin to “Judgment Day”. If you value living or the world as we know it, you CAN’T kill him.

Perhaps the death/murder of Eggman is what creates Silver’s bad future ruled by Neo Sage? Even a kid like Sage wouldn’t take watching her father die very well. She very well has the potential to be a greater threat than Eggman or Metal. With enough time to evolve, and a motivation to reach it.

Despite the more recent issue conveying clearly that Sage is seemingly weaker and has less influence on Eggman’s Eggnet, vs when she was on the Starfall Islands connected to Cyberspace, I feel, give her capabilities, and that GUN’s tech gets trumped by Eggman’s typically, it wouldn’t take much for Sage to shut down their security, defenses, or bypass all their firewalls to obtain sensitive information. I doubt they’d even notice her, since she’d be literally snooping in their servers. It’d be a great way to showcase how deadly, ruthless, and intelligent she can be. As many forget she could be a Skynet, AM, SHODAN, or GLaDOS type threat if she wanted to be. And could evolve to become a worse threat than her dad or Metal. So besides the darker moments, like her threatening to kill staff and soldiers in a facility with poison gas, or turn their defenses on them and engage a lockdown, on the funny or darker side, how do you think Sage would interact with GUN? Troll them? Threaten them with cold, ruthless, violence? Leave a silly “Sage was here” after hacking their network, before timing a base to self destruct?

My personal speculation? Kit and Surge will have a falling out and become enemies. We see Surge beginning to want to do the right thing, albeit not because it’s the right thing to do, she seems to actually be changing somewhat and diverging from her programming. Whereas Kit appears to be spiraling further. His jeopardizing lives, and Surge’s efforts to go straight could clash, reach a boiling point, and we’d see just how broken Kit’s become. To the point he will be Surge’s greatest enemy, in his own twisted logic, so she becomes a greater hero than Sonic. Why would this occur? The two are inverse, opposite, to Sonic and Tails. Where Sonic is cocky but selfless, Surge is arrogant and selfish. Where Tails is independent and courageous, Kit is dependent and bleak. One inspires hope and safety, the other fear and chaos.

Things would really come to a head, when Kit’s latest manufactured crisis gravely injures, maybe even kills people off-panel. Disagreement would turn to fighting, events would play out where the two become more divided as choices and ideals clash, and eventually, Surge realizes she and Kit can’t keep blaming everyone else forever, as the deaths and destruction they’ve caused is beaten into her by Shadow or others, she stops and takes in the reality that freedom doesn’t mean freedom of responsibility, and truly begins to atone. Whereas Kit spirals further into madness, becoming a worse villian for the new heroine, as the world is his enemy in his eyes. Where Kit will do ANYTHING to make Surge a great hero.

How did Dr Starline survive his fall into the sinkhole followed by collapsing debris? The same way Surge did: he’d used a sample of his stable metal virus strain on himself before he went to fight Eggman, or before he’d hit the bottom of the pit. How does this relate to Infinite? They both rose, fell, suffered at the hands of heroes and double crossing associates, all for their own ideals. Their own world. I feel, if what’s been hinted in recent content, is an alliance between the two, they won’t try to “wipe everyone off the chessboard” right away. Starline tried to do that, and so did Infinite, it went badly. Thus, I see them aiming to take out heroes and rivals at their own level. Taking out Sonic failed badly. Trying to match Eggman backfired. It’s like too rookies taking on a veteran in a fist fight-you’ll lose, badly. What sets Eggman and Sonic apart, is they know how to cover their weaknesses and learn from setbacks/mistakes. They have allies to fall back on, and they don’t crack under pressure.

What better teacher for a couple of deformed upstarts, than nearly dying? Hate does wonders for the will to live.

We all know what happens to those that try to kill, cross, or even insult Eggman. We know what happens to those that’d dare try to kill his daughter. But if someone, like Surge or Shadow, killed Eggman? Nukes filled with a new metal virus, super weapons striking Earth’s major cities, militaries, governments, GUN, and in a sense, “judgement day”. The latest issue shows Sage seemingly is much more vulnerable on Eggman’s limited Eggnet, versus her power and influence while connected to the Ancient’s Cyberspace. However, Eggman’s “ever evolving, learning AI” has me thinking, with enough time, especially if something like Eggman’s death/murder pushed her to it, she could become a greater threat than anything Sonic, or future heroes like Silver, have ever faced. Eggman’s said he can end Sonic and the rest of them in minutes if he wanted to. For the love of the game. An older, cold and calculating Sage after the truama of watching her father die? She may be intelligent and deadly, but she’s still a child. One dead Eggman, and she’d probably snap in a grief stricken revenge. And she’d have no reservations for mercy. The few left could be Shadow, Silver, Surge, Kit, and any future heroes or decedents. If she’d evolve enough, she’d be unstoppable, unkillable, hard to keep locked up, and being essentially immortal? She’d have all the time to outlive, or outwit you to death.

It’s no longer a moral dilemma or debate about why you shouldn’t kill Eggman. Considering Sage’s looming shadow, you CAN’T kill him.

We’ve learned in the latest issue that it’s very likely Starline himself has returned. Maybe back from the dead as a type of zombie/cyborg as some concept art depicts him. My going theory is that he’d survived the same way Surge did when she fell down a large pit after fighting Sonic: the stable metal virus. If this is the case, he may be a worse menace for everyone. Especially Eggman, Sonic, and Surge & Kit. With a more unhinged agenda hellbent on “wiping them all off the board”. As they’d all be out for his head. This introduces a certain turning point I feel the duo would have to contend with: mortality and consequences. Starline always made contingencies. Who’s to say there isn’t some that involve an anti-virus, weapon, or cure that makes the duo vulnerable again to death and injuries. (Semi) immortality tends to remove consequences and morals, so such a nerf for Surge and Kit, I feel would be the “turning point” for them, or at least Surge, to turn over a new leaf. As at some point, they’d need to start taking responsibility, as blaming Eggman, Sonic, or Starline would stop becoming an excuse certain characters wouldn’t accept anymore. The two are willing to make the effort, although in the wrong way, but haven’t become genuine and willing to atone, even if they were manipulated, they’d still endangered many, and almost killed some.

Which is when, if willing, Shadow would step in, as he’s the only one that could truly relate to them. Though, considering this is IDW, and not Archie Shadow, it’s hard to say if he’d be inclined to help them. As Shadow is not as forgiving or merciful as Sonic. Though I can see Shadow giving the two some leeway, given the circumstances. Whereas Eggman is a repeat offender.