u/EmmieIsobel

Anyone else currently playing the game, is that a bird, seal, or shark?

I swim in known great white territory and while I’m not so nervous of the sharks to keep me out of the water, I do often find myself playing this “which-one-is-it?” game.

TWs: eating disorders, rape analogy, slavery analogy

I recently posted sincerely wondering why so many otherwise passionate (even militant) vegans give folks with eating disorders or ED histories a pass, or at least a lot more grace. That thread isn’t hard to find and I learned a lot and it helped me work out some things in my own mind and practice as a vegan with a longtime ED history with various manifestations in terms of presentation and severity. The answers made sense. Paraphrasing: “Put on your own mask first”, “Anorexia has the highest mortality rate of a mental illness”, “treatment programs often force patients to eat meat”., “veganism doesn’t want to align with harm”.

It all made or makes sense to me, until, I think of the analogies so frequently used for factory farming and animal exploitation.

Many vegans, (myself included on occasion, although I have mixed feelings about it), use analogous terms like, slavery and rape to describe what happens to those sentient beings raised for and / or headed for the slaughterhouse.

Even if my or someone else’s life does depend on it, can that ever justify rape or slavery? The obvious moral answer to me is no.

Am I just being too literal / neurodivergent here… and these are meant as analogies that are not literal? Are there vegans out there arguing that, yes, farming animals for food is like slavery, but it’s defensible if your life depends on it? To carry that logic further if so, an example:
Let’s say it’s during the time of chattel slavery in the USA and a slave owner “owns” a slave they “treat well” but “legally own” whose task is literally to keep them alive through caregiving practices because the slave owner is chronically ill and thereby needs to have access to care for survival and somehow has no other reasonable options? The answer to me is obviously the slave owner is not justified.

Or say with the rape analogy. Hypothetical:
A person has an incurable disease. In this hypothetical they will automatically be cured (or have a chance at remission at least) if they commit rape. Are they then morally justified in doing so? Again, to me, obviously not.

This is not just about EDs, but also about the exceptions many, if not most, of us make for life altering medications made with animal products.

I’m not trying to upset people. I’m new(er) to veganism, having converted a few months ago from vegetarianism and I’m trying make my praxis consistent, or at least make it make sense in my own mind.

Thank you in advance for engaging in good faith. I know this post is provocative and truly am just trying to come to terms with the inconsistencies I see in vegan discourse and feel in my own praxis.

💚🌱

Cross posted Vegan

Slight edits for grammar and clarity

Basically the title. I’m not a total newb. I learned about 7 years ago but for various reasons didn’t ride much the last two seasons. I live in Canada where we have a pretty short riding window, about June to October, a bit longer if you’re tough which I’m not. During all my time riding I’ve never ridden in the dark. In the last couple of years I’ve started working 12 hour shifts. I’m in 7am-7pm, with about a half hour commute. Leaving early enough to get there a touch early puts me leaving around 6:15/20. I work in a small town and live rurally. Lots of deer, porcupines, cats, foxes, I even saw a black bear in a cage commute home recently. I want to ride back and forth to work for much of the remainder of the season but that means riding at dusk and maybe dark. Besides wildlife, at least some of the roads are a mess. Potholes, grass growing out of the centre, gravel by a quarry, etc. This is all easy enough to navigate with good visibility, but in the dark… idk. I’ve never tried it and it makes me nervous. Seems many if not most bikers don’t think twice about riding at night. Tbh my car doesn’t have great headlights anyway but crashing in that would be way less dangerous for me obvs. Tips for riding in such conditions at dawn, dusk, and dark would be much appreciated. Rubber side down. ✌️🏍️
Edited to add: I ride a Honda Rebel 500cc. I do have a deer whistle. Thanks to all for your awesome suggestions!

Basically the title. I’ve been on the vegan subs for some time now and I get the impression that many vegans are pretty inflexible about using animals in any exploitative way. I get it. I’m vegan. Relatively newly vegan, but vegan, so I’m on the same page mostly morally. However, it often seems that those with eating disorders, in recovery from EDs, or a history of EDs with risk of relapse are urged in those same forums where folks tend to be very inflexible and strict, not to go (or stay) vegan. Why is this so frequently cited as an acceptable exception to the moral obligation of veganism? I understand how dangerous EDs can be. I’ve had them off and on my whole life, and I’ll admit going vegan did contribute to my relapsing to a hopefully relatively minor degree. I’m working on it. This is more of a general question. I’m not asking if I should stay vegan. I am going to. I don’t think my ED would be life threatening even if I was in full blown relapse which I’m not. But I sincerely want to know why this is so often seen as one of the few cases many vegans seem to think it’s okay for humans to eat meat.

TLDR: going away for a couple of days for the first time since going vegan. Bringing lots of snacks, but don’t think there will be many vegan options in the area I am going to. Any advice is appreciated

I’m going on a relatively short work related trip. It’s the first time I’ve been away from home for longer than a 12 hour work shift since going to vegan. I know that the hotel I’ll be staying at will have a continental breakfast. I’m really hoping they have hashbrowns so that I have something to eat in the morning. It looks like even basic cereals like plain Cheerios are not vegan. I had thought of having cereal and bringing my own almond milk, but that seems likely a no go. There is probably going to be oatmeal so that’s a maybe as long as there’s no milk product in the packets. My colleague and I will probably DoorDash something for dinner. So hopefully I’ll be able to find some vegan options there but I’m not counting on it. I’ve kind of prepared myself for not being able to find much of anything at all to eat while away. I’ve packed iced coffee with plant milk for the morning, lots of nuts, carob chips, dried fruit, and rice cakes. I think there’s food provided at the training, but I am pretty certain there won’t be vegan options except probably pre-cut fruit which I don’t like to eat for sanitary reasons, and maybe vegan granola bars if I’m lucky. I think I might just need to resign myself to living on these things for the next couple of days. I know I’ll be hungry and I have to do a lot of driving and I am a nervous driver anyway so being under nourished well navigating unfamiliar traffic does make me extra uneasy. I don’t usually eat much before lunch, but I’m going to have hearty smoothie before I leave. I’m posting late. I have to leave in a couple of hours and will be gone for only a couple of days. Any tips and tricks for the sort of situation are more than welcome

I’ve only been vegan for two months. I’m not certain why it took me so long to take the plunge. I had to be ready. Vegan subs, and vegan activism helped me decide, and watching Dominion (well, half of it) has helped me stay the course. That and the delicious food and improvement in my health.

I have a couple of issues and questions:

Even though I’m so new to veganism, I am already disgusted by being around and handling animal (especially meat) products. I’m forced to handle these at times at work even though it’s not the main part of my job. Most of my job aligns perfectly with my values and is very meaningful, but I absolutely can’t avoid some contact with non vegan products there. I’m also around a lot of meat eaters and there’s no way around that either. I feel such visceral disgust. I try to have compassion and understanding and not be a preachy vegan in part because I recognize that this was me only a few years ago. I was vegetarian before going vegan and pescatarian before that but for much of my life, I ate meat, so who am I to judge?

I guess I’m mostly venting, but I’m curious, how long do you think a person needs to be vegan before they can engage in vegan activism and be taken seriously? Did others have similar experiences of very quickly being disgusted and upset by being around animal products?

TLDR: I’m a mid 40s women who came out as lesbian when I was young and then went back to dating men although I was always more into women. It was easier and I was seeking validation. I am occasionally attracted to absolutely unobtainable men but don’t want to date them. I’m exclusively interested in dating women going forward but my friends and family know my history w men so using lesbian as a title comes with the need for explanation or even is met by pushback. From what I have written what is the best label for me and best way to approach telling people how I identify?

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I’m struggling with how to label myself. I generally don’t feel it’s that important for my personal sense of self but people want to have a label to place on you, especially in the dating and queer world.

The closest I’ve come to what feels right is “functional lesbian” but I always have to explain this so I don’t really use it much. By this I mean there are a couple of absolutely unobtainable men (ie. a couple of male celebrities, or male film characters) who I feel attraction towards but I don’t want to date them even if it were possible and I’m only interested going forward in relationships women.

I came out as lesbian in my very early twenties, had a bad break up (a canon event for young wlws), and then began dating men again. I experienced dating men as pretty much all terrible, did not form close emotional bonds with them like I did with the women in my life, and I almost exclusively regret being with men, although sometimes the emotions felt real in the moment.

I’m in my mid forties. Lesbian feels like the most aligned common label with my current self. I am 99.99% certain I will never have a relationship or sexual encounter with a man again. I am exclusively interested in dating women and find them much more attractive, interesting, and appealing on all levels than I do men. The thing is that I spent the majority of my adult life dating men and people in my life know this about me.

I don’t know how to explain away my previous behaviour of having dated a lot of men. I’ve tried to explain compulsory heterosexuality but it often doesn’t land and the conversation is a lot of work. I could say sexuality is fluid and changeable but I feel like that too often doesn’t land. Even my closest friend is skeptical about my lesbianism because she’s seen me very actively date men in the past - which I think I did more for validation than genuine interest.

I know I could use queer or sapphic, but neither of these feel quite right. And as mentioned, to complicate matters a bit further, I am occasionally still attracted to absolutely unobtainable men, even though I don’t want to actually be with them. Am I bi? Should I push the clunky “functional lesbian” label? Just chose queer or sapphic? Can anyone relate?

Any and all advice is very welcome!

TLDR: suggestions please for recipes and snacks for packing food to get you through a long workday.

I apologize if some version of this has been asked before. I did do a search and didn’t find much.

I’m a brand new vegan about three weeks in coming from vegetarianism. When I have time at home finding delicious, satisfying meals is easy, but I frequently work 12+ hour shifts and on those days, I’ve really been struggling. I’m willing to meal prep beforehand in batches (bonus if it can be frozen) and I do have some ideas.

I’m curious to know other people’s go to recipes and snacks for packing food to get you through a long workday.

So far I’ve been sticking to peanut butter sandwiches, hummus and pita, and fruit / dried fruit or nuts. I like these food well enough but I’m bored and worry I’m not getting enough nutrients on workdays, especially given I eat a smaller breakfast and am too tired to eat once I get home.

I do have plans to make beans and rice, bean salad, grain/bean/veggie salad, other salads, and overnight oats. I’ve brought smoothies to work but was underwhelmed with how they kept even in that short time. I have a microwave and mini fridge at work. I love tofu but find it gets rubbery when reheated so will probably keep that as a home meal unless there’s reheating tips and tricks I don’t know. I’m not a huge soup fan but do plan to make some lentil, and mushroom soups to bring with me. I like to have snacks on hand too because it’s a high paced environment and sometimes I have to delay or even skip my meal break and then I’m running on snacks and fumes.

I live in a smaller town so the plant based alternative section in my grocery stores is smaller but they do have the basics.

Thanks in advance! This sub was the straw that turned me vegan and it’s the community that’s helping me stay that way!