genuinely...why do i WANT someone who outright rejected me, who explicitly said they were no longer "romantically attracted" to me, and broke things off.
regardless of my own reasons for why i don't believe them or who they are to me or how long they waited for me, WHY do i still want someone who doesn't want me?
why would anyone not immediately be turned off by that?
i was talking with my mom and for once speaking candidly about how her emotional abuse and neglect has affected me to this day.
i was just beginning to tell her about the constant stream of "lazy/stupid/liar/wicked" that runs through my head constantly, and she was like, "who tells you that?!"
i was like, "my brain...you—" she was like, 'NO id never!"
me: "yes you. you think i deserve that—"
immediately she jumped in with, "well maybe, you have abandoned god and—"
me: "—AS A CHILD???
she immediately burst into tears, like "how could i" etc.
the point is though, she was still on that bullshit. every mistake i made, anything she personally didn't like, anything i did that was weird or off-putting that is perfectly normal for a kid was treated with you wouldn't be like this if you read your bible and loved god.
i was a CHILD. i did my sabbath school lesson. i prayer every night. i 'loved' god and jesus and adventism. WHAT MORE is a CHILD supposed to do to "prove" that they love GOD.
the fact that she was about to jump into it today, the same she did when i was little enraged me. and it made me sad.
my mom and i think so many Adventist or religious parents pass the 'burden' of being an emotional safe post for their kid. to just be curious and encourage them. blame everything on being wicked and not loving god enough, instead of guiding them to do better. it's so neglectful and leaves kids to stew and shame themselves all on their own.
what a cop out. god and the bible is not going to parent your kids for you. PARENT YOUR OWN KIDS!!
I'm not used to this scenario and I'm not sure how I feel posting this here but here we go.
Usually after things don't work out romantically, it's broken off with a clearcut end or terrible feelings towards the relationship in any form. It feels silly to even overthink this, but our friendship is important to me. He says it's important to him. We technically didn't even officially date, but "ex" is the simplest term to describe him. Right now our relationship is in the awkward phase of repair/prove through actions whether the friendship is mutual. I just don't want to make something already sad even worse.
I've (35F) been friends with Jim (35M) for over twenty years. Our friendship changed and then took a hit recently when, over the course of two months, confessed his long-held feelings for me and I returned the feeling and was attracted to him, then he essentially unintentionally love-bombed me for a month, then told me he lost feelings once we actually got together in-person to find out and start our relationship. (And no, in this case, I know for sure that it has nothing to do with me not being physically or sexually attractive to him.)
For the last month, after a brief no contact period, we agreed that we valued our friendship and wanted to rebuild.
I have several possible theories as to what was going on with him, some better, some worse, but essentially his fantasy of me and who he'd be if we ever happened was shattered. I am not sure which theory to believe. The bottom line is that his feelings changed and he's no longer attracted to me romantically.
We live across the country so it's not like we can hang out on purpose or incidentally with our mutual friends. Before things got romantic, we'd typically talk on the phone most, more than texting etc.
I am having a very hard time coming to terms with the fact that my friend who I have only grown closer with over the years and the hours of conversations we've had were all fueled by his romantic fantasies and idealization. It seems very likely. I know this. I know how the fake male friend thing usually plays out. They idealize and objectify you and only want you in theory/their bed but don't actually know or like you.
But we had a real friendship, connected on real emotional and intellectual levels. He actually likes me as a person, respects me for my mind and humor. Our feelings for each other are based on and grew out of very real moments of connection, recognition, and respect. Our friendship only grew stronger since high school. So it wasn't like he stopped knowing me in high school and everything was based on that time. He's only known much much MORE since.
So it scares and confuses me, a lot.
I still have some lingering feelings, but I see them as separate from the reality of my friendship with Jim. I've always seen him as a friend more than anything else and that was still true even when we thought we'd be together. I have been very anxious and preoccupied in the past with exes. I know how I have been historically and while it seems my hard work of healing has paid off, I still know that my instinct is to lean that way and only since we broke things off do I catch myself going that way (like right now!) even if I don't act on it with him and can get myself back to normal.
Since the break up and our decision over the phone to rebuild our friendship, we've had one phonecall and he initiated new conversation/contact over text every five days like clockwork. Sometimes sooner but always within five days as well. He sends music recommendations like he always has. I listen and send him my reviews. I send music sometimes and he does the same. He calls me his close friend. He still encourages me to move to his city like I've wanted to for a while. He is of course more emotionally restrained, but is reasonably enthusiastic, and recently has started using his usual emojis and exclamations points, texting more naturally.
I get very preoccupied thinking about how I can only tell with time whether he actually values our friendship and wants to repair. It's clear that I want to. But he's the one who pulled away, turned me down, hurt me with that entire experience and broke my trust. I now worry he is doing this because he wants to believe he's the type of person who wouldn't JUST idealize his friend and then abandon her. I think he might want to be the kind of person who genuinely loves his friend like he claimed to.
The last time we spoke, we had a text conversation for a few hours (not about the relationship or anything too intimate), and he ended it by saying how nice it was to chat and asked if we could call that weekend or the following week. I told him yes and to let me know when he was free to call, that I'd do the same. (I meant I would let him know which of his free times worked for me.)
That was two weeks ago now. He is usually an incredibly reliable person when it comes to that kind of thing. It's the longest we've gone without any contact since things got romantic between us, or maybe even right before. So while I am aware and used to not talking to my friends for weeks, months, even YEARS at a time sometimes and that it's normal, I am on edge with the uncertainty of how to handle this.
I want a real friendship with Jim. I like who Jim is even with seeing just how messy he is behind the scenes. That's not an issue to me as long as he is honest and cares. I want to trust what he says and who I've known him to be all our lives. I'll have to if we're going to be honest friends and finally know each other without that fantasy filter in the way. I don't want to assume he forgot about our phonecall or that he decided he's done his time to prove he's a good friend and can go onto avoiding me because he doesn't actually like me or care about our friendship. I don't want to do that.
I want to act the way I usually would — with Jim or any of my friends. "hey how was xyz? I'm still down for the phonecall btw, when are you free?"
And at the same time, I know it's important to let someone who hurt you show up for you and be consistent and show that they mean what they say, that they value your friendship and want to repair it. I also don't want to give him the impression that I am still thinking of him like a partner and demanding he act like it. I'm overthinking this way too much. I'm going through a lot unrelated to this and unfortunately, I'm pretty on edge and wanting connection and stability right now.
I just want to be myself and be normal and not think about anyone proving anything to me or making sure I'm not disrespecting myself or something. I don't want to overthink or control anyone or relationships. I don't want to test anyone! People will show themselves in time without my intervention.
But I also want authentic friendships too, and this is a tentative time. Things aren't "normal" anymore and they won't be for a while, if ever. It's just the nature of the thing. If it's just not healthy for me to continue, despite the natural tentative time, then I'll make space from him. I feel like at this point it's too soon to call it, but seeing how I've been overthinking it, it's approaching.
Do I act like normal and not try to overthink messaging my long-term friend/recent ex two weeks after he said he wanted to call? Do I check in about calling? Just ask about something he mentioned last time and let him make the effort to call? Mind my business and live my life and let him be the one to reach out?
Feel free to ask questions or give your two cents lol. I know how I sound.
I'm new to the avoidant stuff, but came across a thread on twitter that fit his behaviour to a T.
My close friend of 22 years confessed that he'd had feelings for me since high school. We're in our 30s now. It really shocked me but in a great way too. I loved him so much and already thought he was attractive in many ways, it was like I'd fallen for him too but just hadn't realized it til he said it out loud. I'd been burned by love a lot so it was wonderful and painful to hear all the ways and reasons he'd loved me for the majority of our friendship. He'd seen so many ugly parts of me and loved me more for it. I'd never felt so safe and confident going into any relationship. Secure that he actually saw me, and that I saw him too.
He was insistent that we see each other to make sure what we were feeling was real. He was so sure, but I think he didn't want to feel that way about me for longer and have me find out I didn't actually like him. I knew how I felt, but why wouldn't I want to see him? I agreed and I flew out to his city about a month after he'd confessed.
We've lived on opposite sides of the continent since college even though we've still seen each other whenever he came back for holidays and summers and visits for fun. I hadn't seen him in person since 2018, but we video called and sent pictures and it wasn't like we didn't follow each other on social media. He knew what I looked like and not to toot my own horn, but I am beautiful, I know this and I look much better than the awkward high school version of myself he fell in love with.
When I arrived, the physical/sexual chemistry was off the charts. Drunk off it levels of attraction in both directions. So it isn't that where there's any mismatch. We had a really great first 24hrs, our friendship translated well even with me feeling shy, and the romantic and sexual aspect was amazing. Like, wow this could really be what we've always wanted type of deal.
Then the spiraling started.
First, he planned an outing with his brother (that's how confident he was!) and joked about me passing his brother's test. Then we had a Plan B situation. And that lead to us having a heavier talk where I expressed the fears it triggered in me from past relationships. Not mad at him, not blaming him, just very vulnerable about what it brought up in me and I thought we we're closer for it.
He opened up that he'd been going over every interaction as proof that we were or weren't "supposed to" be together. He said he wanted to slow things down a bit. I told him of course and to just enjoy the week together, we didn't need to be making any decisions yet, just getting used to each other. I thought that was a good thing, and it seemed like it. He'd be blushing and sweet and telling me he'd never felt so loved before while we held each other. (He's been married before and was in a long-term relationship since.)
Then I asked him more about his last relationship, because it was such a painful one, and I wanted to understand him better and what type of things he was sensitive to because of it. Because I'd shared some of my own sensitivities the day before.
Well, that sent him into more spirals. We had an evening being close and vulnerable. By the next morning though, I could already feel he was miles away. He was still happy and sweet, but his anxiety was high and I could feel him far.
Then he got sick and I had no idea what to make of his behaviour anymore because he had good reason to act that way. By the last day, I asked him to tell me the truth of what was going on in his head. He told me he was still looking for evidence of whether we were right for each other and that he wasn't over his breakup and that he felt so much pressure and we lived so far and it was too much too soon. I already knew what that meant.
After I got home, he called to tell me he wasn't "romantically attracted" to me anymore. He almost sounded relieved behind the sadness. And I believe he was truly sad. He said he wanted it to work more than anything.
And yet nothing made sense. Sure, I can accept someone not being into me. I believed him, I was sure I had done something or not done something and ruined everything. It broke my heart, especially after all his unnecessary reassurances leading up to my visit.
But then in all our conversations since the trip and breaking it off, he would repeatedly say he was still processing everything. That he wasn't saying it was impossible or could never happen in the future but he didn't want to lead me on. That no, it wasn't a bad idea that we could be good together, it was just how fast everything happened and the pressure of the time frame. That I should never move somewhere for someone else. That he wasn't sure if it really was a lack of attraction but the pressure that got to him. That everything he said about me and thought about me before was all still true, that every experience we'd shared was real and that he didn't fake any of it, that he'd meant everything. That I should still move to his city. That maybe I should have stayed with my cousins there instead of at his house. That the main thing was that he wasn't over his breakup only to tell me on the phone last week that he'd realized he already knew he never wanted that relationship back and that it was toxic and made him shrink himself. That he even tried to think of reasons why the attraction faded but every reason he came up with didn't make sense but maybe it's just the intangible things that you can't control and that he'd change if he could.
Now, first of all, this is some bullshit no matter what the truth of his feelings is.
But. None of that sounds like a faded attraction and more like someone who's fears about control and vulnerability got triggered by true intimacy and convinced himself that him shutting down was because he must not be into me afterall and all the other bullshit reasons like his breakup and the idea that I'd suddenly be moving into his apartment like next week were all just piled on to reassure him that this was for the best and that he was trusting his intuition. He CHOSE to not want me to feel safe.
I'm serious when I say this isn't my ego talking, I'm just seeing the bigger picture now, like as of two days ago. And it's making me insane that he might have let something so stupid get in the way of our relationship, even threatening to damage our decades-long friendship. We agreed that our friendship was most important to us and to value it no matter what unless it felt unhealthy.
But now? It just frustrates me. I haven't talked to him at all since last Friday and I don't even know how I want to proceed now that I have this hypothesis about his behaviour.
It really is textbook avoidant. Thankfully, he's a kind and open person who is adamant that he values our friendship, and even if he shuts down at first, will take time to swallow his insecurities to hear me out when I told him just how deeply he hurt me and genuinely wants to understand so he can be a better friend and support to me going forward.
But then I can still feel the distance there. As well as his complete obliviousness whenever he "corrects" me and says some next thing about why it didn't work (explicitly and indirectly mostly too) that has nothing at all to do with me. Always talking about the timeline and doesn't have an answer when I take him up on it and ask, "what exactly did you imagine I wanted to happen? What was going to happen? We could have talked about it, I wouldn't have moved in tomorrow -- or at all, your place is tiny!" He just keeps saying he should have taken it slower.
But I'm not going to ask or god forbid BEG someone who rejected me to give us another chance. It wouldn't be right.
Anyway. This community opened my eyes to a lot of things. I can see my own combo avoidant and anxious attachment behaviours now. Thanks guys.
For now, I'm letting him contact me when he does. I'd like to just send every meme and new song I find because that's how it used to be. But I'm not sure whether to just tell him what I think or just ask him to tell me what kind of friendship he actually wants, or tell him I'm not going anywhere but I need some space to sort out how I feel.
It's too new for me to see any consistent patterns in his behaviour. We only had our first official friend phone call last week so. Too soon to know what to do.
If anyone has insight or relates or advice or whatever, I'd love to hear it! Thanks for letting me rant a bit.
Edit: Oh, and to add to it too. His experiences with relationships are so limited and not great. With both his ex-wife and ex-girlfriend, he was the one who liked them way more than they liked him. They really weren't into him or loved him for who he was and really dragged out the breakups over months or years. So he's a people pleaser who finds emotional safety in chasing people and convincing them he's worth their affection.
And now with me, I don't want him to please me except by being honest about everything and telling me what he actually wants and honouring that. I just want him to be himself, not mold himself into a shape that he thinks would suit me best. So I think he finds that frightening. Because a rejection while being himself would be a true one, not one he can brush off.
Only now, my issue is that I no longer believe every word he says because I'm not sure he even knows what he's doing or why. So yes, I want him to be as honest as he can to me, but he can only be as honest to me as he is to himself. So it's just... weird. It's definitely a weird place being in limbo, even talking strictly about friendship.
i just heard this song added to a post on instagram. it's title is "Nosferatu" (that's the actual title, i have it!!) but there are a million when i look online/spotify and none of the artist.
its by a duo. two short names in an "\_\_\_ & \_\_\_" style. one of the names starts with a J like Jan/Jen/Jam/Jem or something. maybe not even a common word or name, but definitely short and starting with J.
the song is sung by a man with a very low voice, he's singing AS Nosferatu so it's dramatic and slow, intentionally swaying and creeping rhythm. it doesn't seem like a serious song though i didn't get to hear the end of it, maybe it's a cult classic, i don't know.
the lyrics are something like:
"i... am... Nosferatu/
it's so nice to meet you/"
and then something later about coming over/inside tonight or something.
in the comic, it referenced the song too, the artist was talking about their first job (that only lasted two days) working at a factory and he had that song stuck in his head in the story.
instagram is infamous for refreshing the page and i loved the comic i was reading (i dont follow the artist, it came up as a suggested post) and this is driving me insane. im hoping if i find the song, it'll help me find the comic post/artist.
please help if you can identify this song!
i just heard this song added to a post on instagram. it's title is "Nosferatu" (that's the actual title, i have it!!) but there are a million when i look online/spotify and none of the artist.
its by a duo. two short names in an "\_\_\_ & \_\_\_" style. one of the names starts with a J like Jan/Jen/Jam/Jem or something. maybe not even a common word or name, but definitely short and starting with J.
the song is sung by a man with a very low voice, he's singing AS Nosferatu so it's dramatic and slow, intentionally swaying and creeping rhythm. it doesn't seem like a serious song though i didn't get to hear the end of it, maybe it's a cult classic, i don't know.
the lyrics are something like:
"i... am... Nosferatu/
it's so nice to meet you/"
and then something later about coming over/inside tonight or something.
in the comic, it referenced the song too, the artist was talking about their first job (that only lasted two days) working at a factory and he had that song stuck in his head in the story.
instagram is infamous for refreshing the page and i loved the comic i was reading (i dont follow the artist, it came up as a suggested post) and this is driving me insane. im hoping if i find the song, it'll help me find the comic post/artist.
please help if you can identify this song!
i just heard this song added to a post on instagram. it's title is "Nosferatu" (that's the actual title, i have it!!) but there are a million when i look online/spotify and none of the artist.
its by a duo. two short names in an "___ & ___" style. one of the names starts with a J like Jan/Jen/Jam/Jem or something. maybe not even a common word or name, but definitely short and starting with J.
the song is sung by a man with a very low voice, he's singing AS Nosferatu so it's dramatic and slow, intentionally swaying and creeping rhythm. it doesn't seem like a serious song though i didn't get to hear the end of it, maybe it's a cult classic, i don't know.
the lyrics are something like:
"i... am... Nosferatu/
it's so nice to meet you/"
and then something later about coming over/inside tonight or something.
in the comic, it referenced the song too, the artist was talking about their first job (that only lasted two days) working at a factory and he had that song stuck in his head in the story.
instagram is infamous for refreshing the page and i loved the comic i was reading (i dont follow the artist, it came up as a suggested post) and this is driving me insane. im hoping if i find the song, it'll help me find the comic post/artist.
please help if you can identify this song!