"This Pride, I’m happy to come out as Pro Ai!" - DefendingAIArt debates whether being Pro-AI is similar to being gay
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>I swear, this newgen gives you more hate for being pro-AI than they do for people being gay, lol. How the turntables turned...
>Hi! I'm bisexual, and I already have came out as both Bi and Pro-AI. >Regardless of your orientation - this seems either performative or satirical, and neither one of those is a good look. >> I can see how you can think that, but I think you’re missing a crucial detail. the fact is, identities exist everywhere, and not all of them are vocal. It is important that people make posts like this to show that we exist. if my post is seen by at least one person who’s part of the LGBT community and pro AI, and inspires them to be proud of their identity, it worked. >>this type of thing is shown through all of history too. minority groups NEED to be vocal and to make posts like this, even if they look “”””””performative”””””” because the alternative is always silence and erasure. I know you mean well ofc and i hope this gives you an alternate point of view >>>“Proud of their identity” >>>When pro-ai children are forced to go through physical and chemical torture by their parents to “correct” them we can talk about you being part of pride. >>>Until then this is horribly disrespectful
>(Picture of an anchor)
>>Stand with AI, just like I stand with sensibility.
>>>The notion that liking an artform or tech is in any way equivalent to an innate thing, like sexuality, is asinine, and anyone pushing this has either completely lost the plot, or is farming engagement by being the village jester for a day. Pick whatever aligns with you more.
>>>>There's no meaningful moral difference. Both are attacking people for unjustified reasons. Whether you like the same gender or you like a certain technology.
>>>>>Jester it is then.
>>>>>>Explain the relevant moral difference then, chud.
(Commenter is banned after this)
>Please don't mix things up. >>all i see are two oppressed groups living in harmony. if you’re against harmony just say so >>>One thing has absolute no relation with one another, and that's not how harmony works.
>Can't believe what I am seeing. Sexuality and gender identity aren't choices, using AI is. People belonging to LGBTQ are being actively oppressed, tortured and erased.
>You're making a joke out of someone coming to terms with their identity as well as being brave enough to face the world as themselves.
>Be for AI all you want, but don't try and hijack a movement that has nothing to do with AI. This is in bad taste.
>>ok. ai sometimes is NOT a choice, namely when someone has a physical disability and is unable to create art without it. or when someone has more trouble learning than others and needs ai to help them understand something.
>>this is not a joke. the LGBTQ movement is not a joke. AI is not a joke. don’t make it one.
>>this isn’t a fucking hijacking, it’s quite simply a unification. you’re in bad taste.
>>>The fact that you are trying to compare the intrinsic nature of LGBT identities to the expressiong of art via AI, off the back of disabled people potentially needing that outlet... is frankly fucking crazy. I'm Pro-AI. I agree AI users are judged and onsilted constantly, and in these crevices of society plaqued with bitter chronically online people, it becomes a recursive degradation kf death threats and harassment.
>>>That can all be true, but never in my days would I ever say it comes anywhere near the persecution we gay people or our fellow trans people and the broader LGBT community face.
>>>It doesn't amount to the same centuries of death and oppression we've endured.
>>>You want to make a cute union with LGBT in your community, and pro-AI Art? I think that's fine. But you are doing more than that here. You are hikacking the movement, portraying it as a similar 'coming out' story, while in these very comments you are quite bluntly arguing for their similarities, and why these comparisons actually aren't that bad.
>>>This genuinely is in poor taste, to the point that I was even surprised to read you were a gay man. I don't know what life you lived, but to make these comparisons requires some very loud amounts of naivete about what pride represents, and what actually built it.
>>>You can't compare these things but you can celebrate them in union... which is not the only thing you've done here.
>>>>it disappoints me that you can’t see we’re on the same side of this issue.
>>>>>This isn't something nice for the gay community. This is something nice for you who happens to be within the gay community. This is what I meant when I said weaponizing our movement. I don't believe your intent was harm. Honestly, I feel much the opposite. I feel like your intentions outpaced reflection, and you didn't notice how icky it was to use 'coming out as pro-AI' as a title. The problem is you did it just now, again, by presuming Pride, and the grander gay community all would consider 'AI support' as a good thing. Not all of us do. I even said explicitly, you can harmonize, and build a little pro-AI+LGBT sentiment where we all celebrate LGBT people who use AI and be all warm and fuzzy to our hearts content. My only and sole issue was with how you are jockying the LGBT community with weird comparisons of general equivalence as well as monolithizing us as if we all like and believe the same things. We don't.
(A second commenter enters the chain)
>The problem is you did it just now, again, by presuming Pride, and the grander gay community all would consider 'AI support' as a good thing. Not all of us do.
>Nah, that's just lumping us into the same group, and forcing hive mentality when the OP was just showing HIS support. Believing in the concept of solidarity is a really important thing. This isn't some company putting rainbow flags on products to entice you to buy. This is a gay man that is also pro-AI loudly voicing their support.
>It doesn't matter how loud they are, their support doesn't roll over to you, and you have every right to only support what you want to support.
>If I want to join his pro-AI/pro-LGBT movement, I have every right and you thinking that we should all abandon it because you DON'T support it says a lot about how you hold other's opinions.
>So it's only good and proper if you approve?
> Oh, so you did understand they are part of the community after all and this is all you pinning a gay dude up against a wall to tell him what he can and cannot support together.
>You have completely and utterly lost the plot
>>You completely misunderstood my argument from the start, and it shows in what you chose to criticize, and how you criticized it.
>>For instance...
>>This was actually the opposite of my critique. I was saying that he is using pride and coming out narratives as equivalent practices - more in his comments than the original image, but wnough I witnessed to not really like the monolithic picture his rhetoric was drawing.
>>Yes, and I had 0 critiques about him doing that. Literally 0.
>>I never thought otherwise. My target was very specifically the misuse of coming out conventions and the grander comparative notion of gay persecution and AI persecution being somehow comparable. They really aren't.
>>This was never my argument, but also I unironically am pro-AI as well as gay. I infact very explicitly support and belong to the same demographic. Preaching to the choir about a demon's song.
>>My argument was that abusing the coming out narrative, as well as equivocating the disparate notions of persecution is reductive to many gay people's experiences, and that there are better ways to harmonize this intersection than reductivism.
>>I gave an opinion. Not a moral indictment nor conviction of propriety.
>>Also, I wasn't bidding for my explicit sign-off. I was voicing my distaste for the conflations of the LGBT community with AI discourse.
>>Not at all, I have absolutely nothing against him. I'm more disheartened by the framing than I am upset about the intent. I know he isn't trying to be reductive, but that's the effect this post had for me.
>>I hope that clears some thing up. Otherwise, I'm not interested in a slapping match.
>>>Blows my mind that you see an image of two completely separate flags and call it monolithic. It can't be too monolithic if you can tear it to shreds so easily.
>>>There is no persecution in the post or the title. It wasn't until you laid into the poster that things even got fuzzy. His back was already against the wall at that point.
>>>I think you're missing the point that when it's his narrative, it's 100% his and you don't have domain over it. You have a coming out story. I have a coming out story. This poster has a coming out story. All three different, all three from different perspectives.
>>>Strange coming directly after you claim they abused the movement. Because that abuse claim was both.
>>>But you're doing just as much framing. I used to go to gay hunting events and there was a ton of hunting pride and gay pride and they def. mixed. You can have sub groups in a group. It's only co-opting if the person doesn't belong to the parent group. We would have made our own flag, just for us, given the chance. Not to co-opt, but because we were proud of our group.
>>>In the end, you're mad because a gay man said a sentence wrong, so you need to teach the gay man a lesson about being a gay man.
>>>Could the sentence have been reworded to be a little more politically correct in this obviously sensitive climate? Perhaps. But all this (gestures wildly) is uncalled for. There are plenty of actual homophobic activities happening on Reddit that you could have piggybacked on.
>>>>It's uncalled for to you.
>>>>The sharp irony here is, you are doing to me what you accused me of doing to him, all because I gave a damn about something that effected me.
>>>>You also continued to give breath to arguments I never made.
>>>>I never said he persecuted anyone. I said he was equivocating different persecutions,and I explicitly said it was happening more in the comments than in the image. Yet you pointed at the image and said 'nuh uh'. Ditto to your 'two flags' point. I have nothing against the two flags at all, nor the framing of solidarity between the two camps.
>>>>Again, this was my argument. Yet you are using it as a rebuttal for some reason. He quite literally said "good for the gay community". That is monolithic framing, and what I called a 'weaponization' which probably was more loaded than I meant, as it implies actual intent. I don't think it was intentional, but it was impactful.
>>>>Since you've clearly chosen the slapping fight method of communication, this will likely be my lost comment.
>>>>I tried to explain to you my position, but you still aren't really getting it, and are instead trying to indict me for the crimes of a phantom.
>>>>Again, I myself am literally a gay man who uses AI.
>I came here to see if the post was real. Y’all be actually trying to compare using AI to the struggles of LGBTQ and using pride month to do it. That’s just sick. >>firstly, both groups have struggles, and both groups are united in that struggle. if you’re so angry about two groups of oppressed people uniting, then i think you just have a lot of hatred in your heart. secondly, wrong subreddit luddite >>>You ain’t oppressed for using AI, you’re delusional and possibly spend far too much time online. You just don’t want to be called out for this incredibly poor taste take. >>>>i am being oppressed. you are the oppressor. it’s always the people doing the oppressing that want the oppressed to think they’re not being oppressed. fuck off man
>Ok, I'm usually not saying anything against AI use when it doesn't matter, but trying to tie your laziness to learn a skill to a celebration of history of people who have been historically killed for their sexuality is sickening >>well we’re witnessing the start of a very similar history of oppression. anyway get out of this sub anti plus there have been multiple cases of antis physically attacking and even killing pro ai people. on top of that, many pro ai creators careers were ruined to the point of suicide by antis.
>Being pro ai almost feels like you are black and surrounded by the KKK in a way. I hate how hateful people are >>Not even close
>This is in really bad taste.
>>Standing with the LGBTQ community is in bad taste? As a gay man myself I can’t help but think you’re homophobic because of this comment. Keep hate out of this.
>>>I'm lesbian. Comparing coming out as pro AI to coming out as LGBT is insulting to our community.
>>>>It really just baffles me that someone a part of a community dedicated to acceptance and inclusion would falsely accuse me of doing the exact opposite just because of my views on AI. We are both in the same boat, assuming you support ai too. If you don’t support ai, this sub is only for Pro-AI people and not Anti Ai people.
>>>>>It has nothing to do with ai and everything to do with being LGBTQ. People have been killed just for being queer. If you understandstood the struggles our community has gone through you'd understand this is insulting even if you didn't mean it that way.
>>>>>I'm sure my words won't sway you or the people down voting me so I'll bid you all farewell.
>>>>>>And i’m sure my words won’t sway you. it’s a shame that we’re the same but also on different sides. I bid you farewell too.