u/NothingHead8233

I’m seeing *a lot* of posts and comments on the new report about Jaylen going off script in the Philly series this year.

That’s led to a bunch of podcasts talking about his shot creation value in the playoffs. How him going off script is what makes him so valuable. And that to an extent is true. His 24 run was by far his best post season and it resulted in a ring, an ECFMVP (however unearned it was) and an FMVP (which was much more fair).

I decided to go back and look at the last 3 post seasons not including the 2024 run. And i think it’s easy to see why the Celtics question what Jaylen would have brought if you bring him back.

Here are Jaylens stats In each of the last 3 series where the Celtics have been eliminated:

PHI - 25.7 PPG 6.7 RPG 3.3 ASTS 3.5 TOVs 55.1% TS

NYK - 21.1 PPG 5.7 RPG 5.2 ASTS 4.6 TOVS 49.6% TS

MIA - 19.0 PPG 6.1 RPG 3.4 ASTS 3.5 TOVs 46.4% TS

To contrast, here are Tatum’s stats.

PHI - 23.3 PPG 10.7 RPG 6.8 ASTS 2.8 TOVs 60.8% TS

NYK - 25.5 PPG 11.8 RPG 5.5 ASTS 3.7 TOVs 52.2% TS

MIA - 25.3 PPG 10.3 RPG 5.4 ASTS 3.7 TOVs 58.8% TS

I think brads argument is that you can’t have someone who gives you low level efficiency on high volume, no playmaking, a ton of turnovers, and pay him 35% of the cap.

And it’s not just the playoffs.

This season, Jaylen finished 5th in TOs. Only two players in the top 25 of TOs had fewer assist than Jaylen: KD. But KDs finished the season at 64.1% True shooting. Massively outpacing Jaylen at 57.5%

I know that sounds harsh, especially considering that it is hard to score in the postseason. There was massive value in Jaylen’s scoring in that 2024 run.

But I do think there is another part to this:

Do you really think Jaylen wants to go back to second fiddle? He talked at length about his love for this season. He loved taking all those shots. But a guy who doesn’t give you playmaking and is TO machine cannot be your highest usage guy in this NBA. The option to bring him back became less palatable as the season moved on.

That’s not to say I love the return, but I would bet when we hear the execs say what they have about Jaylen, this is what they’re talking about.

A few months ago I posted about why I didn’t think Tatum and brown were on the same page. To recap:

1. Brown missed a game in Charolette. Tatum ended up playing really well and the Celtics beat an on fire hornets team. After the game, Tatum hugged Charles Lee, talked to Grant Williams, spent 20 minutes on the court smiling having the time of his life. A week later, charlotte came to Boston. Tatum played well, but brown lead the team in scoring. Tatum literally walked off the floor before the game ended.

2. After the game, Tatum’s trainer started tweeting about the Celtics and how they needed to give Tatum the ball more in order to win.

3. The obvious planting of frustration from brown through Tracy McGrady on NBC.

Now I’ve got some more information:

I don’t have an account anymore but I used to be super active on twitter. There is very vocal divide between Celtics who prefer Tatum or Jaylen. This might sound dumb, but on each side of the divide there are people who have literally received either Tatum’s sneaker or Jaylen’s sneaker as a gift. Not from other people, but hand signed notes from Tatum or Jaylen.

They are micro influencers in this weird propaganda battle.

There is one specific user who I won’t out because I don’t know them anymore, but he made it clear that Tatum felt Jaylen saying “I didn’t know until 45 minutes before the game he wasn’t playing” before game 7 was a final straw for Tatum and Jaylens relationship. This decision had been made the morning off, and Tatum took it as a shot at him for not playing through an injury and leaving them out to dry.

I’ve known about this forever, but chalked it up to Jaylen just kind of saying something stupid. However, Nick wright is now saying the same thing.

There is also another user who I swear to god I have seen having a conversation with Tatum’s grandmother in the pro shop like they knew each other who has been adamant that Tatum’s “camp” was pissed about the favorite season thing, and posting about the Celtics being just as good as last year.

Through these dudes on twitter we are also hearing Jaylen and Tatum were at the club on the same night in France. There’s a video that came out with Tatum and Draymond hanging out. What these people are saying now is that Tatum and Jaylen “walked by each other and pretended they didn’t know each other”.

On top of all this, Jaylen’s stream the other day was actually very candid. He didn’t sound like he wanted to leave at all. I know because I have eyes that this is Brad Stevens not believing in Jaylen and Jayson as a duo, but it does make me wonder if Tatum was saying he wouldn’t mind to move on.

Another interesting part of this is that there are people who pretend they’re just “coworkers” and haven’t ever been super friendly. And I think that’s wrong. Tatum himself confirmed Jaylens family babysat Tatum’s son. After the 2021 Olympics, in which Tatum won gold and played well, they met up at a club in Vegas and Jaylen was running around wearing Tatum’s medal. They were great friends and then something happened.

Sorry for the schizophrenic morning post I’ve been up all night taking care of a new born and now it’s too hot to sleep.

Just a quick reminder of what you’re looking at next season. It’s amazing how much this fanbase disrespects Tatum. Can’t wait until you’re all singing his praises next year.

I’ll preface this by saying I really hope we get Giannis. I’m sure those of you who don’t want this trade are fine people but I think you are either too young or like not watched this team play to think this is a bad move. Or you just care way more about watching Jaylen than you do about winning.

However…….

I do not like being in an open bidding war where you’re telling your second best player you want him gone for the second time in the past 5 off seasons.

Historically, the team has been ruthless. They traded max two years after winning finals MVP, sent Pierce packing when the time was right, and got Isaiah out of here when it was time. But all those took place without an open bidding war. IF this goes south and they take Miami’s offer, I have no idea how you bring brown back. It’s been pretty poorly managed from the start.

That’s why it feels like he’s gone either way. He’s dealt with this before but I can’t imagine Jaylen would be back after this.

Not that you can trust me when I say this, but I do “know a guy” who was spot on with brogan, smart/kp, and Jrue moves over the past few years who’s telling me Detroit will be the third team in a move that sends Giannis to Miami.

Who knows if he’s right and again I know it’s pointless, but im just sad that we didn’t beat it. I’m looking for why people think this is the right move. It feels like 60/40 was the split between keeping Jaylen and moving him for Giannis. I can’t understand why so I want to know more.

I’ve said it before: The Jays are incredible but they *need* an elite team around them from 3-8 to win another title. There really isn’t a path to it.

So I’m here looking for you guys to tell me why that’s wrong. Why do you think this is a good thing? Because I really believe if Brad wanted to get this done he could have.

No matter what happens we will either get some elite cope or insane expectation management from bill when the Giannis trade goes through.

“It’s good for the league he’s going to Miami. It makes the east more fun. Boston could have had him, but they valued that 29 FRP when the jays are in their 30s too much”

Or

“KD said it took him like 700 days to feel same after his Achilles tear. Tatum won’t be at the 700 day mark until may. Can’t judge the trade for atleast a couple more years”.

I cannot wait.

Who would you rather have:

Player A: 27.3/4.3/4.3 on 46% true shooting and 4.3 turnovers. -4.3 on/off

Player B: 21.5/7.0/6.8 on 48% true shooting and 3.8 turnovers. -3.5 on/off

Player A is Jalen Brunson in these finals. Player B is Jayson Tatum in 2022.

Just an FYI.

This guy has 0 business being this good. Isiah Thomas was a great athlete, Steph is the best shooter I’ve ever seen, Brunson is short and slow. I cannot think of a single player I’ve been more confident in at the end of a game than Brunson. Hes likely going to have to shoot like this to win the series, it’s going to be ugly. But this is insane.

Tatum is still better than Shai. No I will not be writing any more on this. He just is!

What a ride. I had the book on my desk for the past year. I kept saying I’d get to it, and finally did. It took me about a month to get through it, but I loved every second of it.

There is something about his writing that feels so human. In this world that we live in, nothing feels personal. But the past month made me feel how human a novel can be.

The book had lofty philosophical questions that I’m not smart enough to answer, but even the small pieces of the characters’ lives struck me.

My absolute favorite part of the book was when the prosecutor was describing how Dimitri would have spent the final 1500 rubbles. Going through additional hundred each time rationalizing the spending by saying what’s the different between returning 1500 and 1200? All the way down to what’s the difference between returning 100 or nothing at all.

I laughed out loud reading this. It’s the simple negotiations we make with ourselves in the morning. What’s 5 more minutes in bed? What’s the different between running 10 minutes late or 20? What’s the difference between 2 and 4 drinks?

He wrote this 150 years ago, and there isn’t an author I can find who can hit the human experience the same way.

I can watch literally thousands of MLB games for the same cost for 140 Sox games.

The most greedy ownership group on the planet.

I wasn’t going to listen because I couldn’t get to it before the game, but I’m so glad i did. First, Mahoney rocks. Then in a ten minute span we got:

1. Bill saying “I think Giannis wants Boston but I don’t think they want him”. Mahoney asks him why he thinks that and he says “I just do”

2. “The league is more fun if Jaylen and and Jayson stay together” as he prepares himself for the trade to Boston not materializing

3. “Lakers won 5 and the Celtics won 3 in the 80s could have gone the other way” like come on lol

4. “I’m a Celtics fan, i don’t care who wins in the west” while berating the thunder

Best to ever do it

I’m a career harden defender. I think his playoff reputation is undeserved.

I wouldn’t even let him back on the plane after this. 0 resistance.

Also what is Atkinson doing not getting him out? No offense no defense he’s doing nothing

Mitchell is leaving his feet with no plan, Paul reed is the only piston who wants to shoot, harden is harden, Allen is Allen, duren isn’t even playing and the Mobley is some how the guy with poise

Just a quick observation: guys like Sam Amick and Jake Fischer, who are actually plugged in have lukewarm thoughts on the moves likelihood. Amick isn’t even talking about the Celtics, reporting more on NYK, MIA, and GS. While Fischer says the Celtics aren’t real threats to land Giannis.

On the other end of the spectrum, there hasn’t been a day where first take, local writers who I will not name because many of them are on here, perk, me, and 100 other hot take artists don’t bring it up. It’s a great talking point. One of the leagues biggest franchises moving a homegrown star for an MVP is fun. But I’m starting to think I gotta spend more time figuring out what else Brad might do.

I still think making the move would be in the team’s best interest, but every time I check it seems less and less likely.

Giannis has missed time in the playoffs in:

2020 - 1 game
2021 - 2 games
2023 - 2 games
2024 - 5 games

He’s been acceptably durable in his career during the regular season. He’s averaged 69 games played in the RS, and this year was his first year playing under 60.

The problem is that he’s 6’11 and plays like a running back. His whole game is predicated on running through defenders, and he’s on the wrong side of 30.

But Tatum and Jaylen have proved you need a real life super team around them to win a title. They had 7 guys on the team who have either made all-nba, All-defense, all-star, or won 6MOY. That’s not easy to replicate.

Obviously this has a been a super fun ride, but at some point you gotta take a risk. This is the time. Even if it doesn’t work, it has a better chance to than Tatum and Jaylen banging their heads against the wall again.

Unless you can bring in a Jrue holiday level player without losing anyone, you gotta take the risk if the opportunity is there.

Edit: forgot to add 2024.