I found out about my wife's affair through her lover's wife
This is a repost sub. I’m not the Original OP (OOP)
OOP: u/Illustrious_Elk_2356
Published on: r/Marriage
Story is: NO FURTHER UPDATES (OOP deleted the account)
Story timeline
Main Post: August 03, 2026
Update: August 06, 2026
Final Update: Comments: August 08, 2026
Main Post
^(August 03, 2026)
I found out about my wife's affair through her lover's wife
I'll try to keep this as short as possible.
My wife and I are both in our early 40s. We have been together since university and have been married for almost 15 years. We have two teenage children. We both have well paying jobs, we take family vacations regularly, we have an active intimate life and as far as I knew, we didn't have any major problems. From the outside, we looked like a very happy family.
On Friday, a woman slightly younger than me came to my workplace. I had never seen her before. She introduced herself, told me her name, who her husband was and then said that her husband had been having an affair with my wife. She then showed me everything.
Photos, messages, call logs...everything. She told me she had started suspecting an affair back in early June after her husband received suspicious late night messages that had no visible chat history. She began digging and eventually discovered thousands of calls and messages exchanged between him and my wife over the past year.
She confided in her father, who immediately contacted several people, including a lawyer and after a month they managed to uncover everything including who is her husband's mistress...
We live about five hours apart, but our spouses work for the same multinational company. Over the past 14 months, they have been having sex during business trips. It happened on four separate trips that lasted around five days each, plus two shorter two day trips. You do the math.
She was incredibly calm. Honestly, almost cold. She told me she had wanted to contact me much earlier but wasn't sure I would believe her, so she wanted to present all the evidence in person when she was in my city. She also openly admitted that a big reason for telling me was revenge against my wife.
She plans to file for divorce today or tomorrow. According to her, everything is already prepared and she can no longer pretend everything is fine because she can't even stand to touch her husband anymore. Apparently, her husband noticed she had been acting differently lately and started panicking that she maybe found out something. He warned my wife, who also started panicking.
To be honest, until then I hadn't noticed anything unusual. My wife seemed completely normal. But now I do notice she is constantly around me, asking me questions, paying close attention whenever I talk with someone and on Friday she kept asking why I was home so late. From everything I read, it is obvious neither of them ever intended to leave their marriages. They both repeatedly said how happy they were with their lives.
The messages contain everything imaginable: comparing their spouses in bed, my wife mocking the other wife, planning vacations together, giving each other parenting advice... Honestly, it made me feel sick.
The other betrayed spouse told me she will notify the company they both work for once her lawyer gives her permission. She also intends to tell their children the complete truth after her husband is served with divorce papers. She wished me luck and said I could contact her anytime if I needed anything. We have stayed in touch and the last thing she told me was that she would file today or tomorrow at the latest. My wife's phone is completely clean and I used it in front of her and she seemed normal.
I'm completely knocked down. I'm trying to act like everything is normal and pretend I'm just stressed because of work, but it is incredibly difficult. I honestly don't know what to do. My heart tells me one thing, my head tells me another. As twisted as it sounds, it is somehow easier knowing this affair seems to have been driven by pure sex rather than love.
At the moment, I do plan to divorce, but there are so many practical issues. We have two houses, cars, investments, teenage children... I need time to come up with a plan of my own. The other wife doesn't want to wait because she simply can't bear being around her husband anymore. Where we live, infidelity has absolutely no impact on divorce proceedings. That means I'm almost certainly going to lose a significant portion of my assets if everything is split 50/50.
My wife cares deeply about her reputation and is highly respected in our community and her parents would be so much disgusted by her if they know the truth. Part of me thinks I might be able to negotiate a fair settlement by agreeing not to expose the affair publicly, especially since I have been the primary breadwinner throughout our entire relationship.
On the other hand, I'm carrying so much anger and resentment right now that I want to tell the whole world what she did. And despite everything... I still love her.
Has anyone been through something similar? What would you recommend my next steps should be?
COMMENTS
Why didn't you confront your wife immediately?
> That is the plan. I'm not going to confront my wife until I have at least spoken to a lawyer, which I hope to do within the next 24 hours. My biggest problem is that I barely have any time to process what has happened, let alone get everything in order. > > I asked the other wife to give me just a few more days, but she told me her female lawyer is strongly advising her to file for divorce immediately, start the legal process as soon as possible and tell their children who are about the same age as ours the truth so she can maintain as much control over the divorce as possible and achieve the best outcome. > > On top of that, she simply can't stand being around her husband anymore. I understand her, and I'm grateful that she told me the truth because I honestly don't think I would have ever discovered any of this on my own. I just wish she had told me a few days earlier.
Were you able to find another lawyer after the other wife's lawyer couldn't represent you?
> I spoke directly with her lawyer. There is a potential conflict of interest, so she won't be able to represent me, even though the idea seemed great in theory. However, she gave me the contact information for one of her female colleagues and recommended that I reach out to her instead. We have already been in touch and we have a meeting scheduled for later today.
What do you know about the other wife's plans and why is she moving so quickly? Did the other wife give you all the evidence she found?
> As the other wife told me, she expects that both of them will lose their jobs after she talked with her lawyer. > > I asked her whether that was really a smart decision considering child support and alimony, but she told me that she doesn't care about that. Her plan is to sell whatever assets she is awarded, move back to her hometown with the children and that she already has support from her father there who will help her fully. > > Her only goal right now is for her husband to face maximum consequences for what he did and for her to get away from him as quickly as possible. > > Yes, I have everything.
Are you certain the evidence really shows your wife was having the affair?
> I'm not sure what you mean by saying that I don't have evidence and that she might be setting me up. I have pictures of the two of them together, call and message records from my wife's phone number, and messages that match the timing of those calls and conversations. > > I also have a large number of WhatsApp messages and calls, again from my wife's number. In those messages, she mentions me, our life together, and our children. It is clearly her. There is no one else it could be. > > As soon as the other wife realized what was happening, she did everything she could to uncover the full truth. She knows the hotel room where he stayed on the last trip, which restaurants they went to, she has pictures of them together and much more. She spent a month preparing all of this, and the only thing left is for her to tell him that she knows everything.
Was there really nothing suspicious on your wife's phone?
> Yes, it is completely clean. I honestly haven't checked her screen time, but her messages and call history are clean. There is nothing suspicious there. > > I have always had access to her phone. She has had the same passcode the entire time and she has never acted uncomfortable or protective about me using it not before and not now. To be honest, I rarely ever used her phone anyway. Usually it was just to call someone if my own phone wasn't nearby so maybe that is why she is super chill.
How were your wife's affair messages and communications hidden?
> Everything the other wife showed me indicates that they communicated through regular text messages and WhatsApp. That is my wife's phone number, so it doesn't appear that she was using another phone. However, one thing I found strange is that in the WhatsApp screenshots of their conversations, the profile picture isn't visible. > > I checked my wife's WhatsApp settings because I thought maybe she had changed the privacy settings so that everyone except her lover could see her profile picture, but that wasn't the case. So that part is a little unclear to me. > > It is possible that she blocked him at the moment when the other wife was collecting additional evidence, but the phone number is the same. They don't follow each other on Instagram, and she hasn't shown me anything suggesting they communicated there. I honestly haven't checked email. > > I checked her contacts, and everything looks normal. His number isn't saved in her phone. I don't know whether she deleted and blocked him now that she is panicking. What I do know is that, according to the other wife, the last time they were in contact was early last week.
Are you considering reconciliation?
> I strongly believe reconciliation is not going to happen. I have spent a lot of time thinking about everything this weekend. I have barely slept, maybe only a few hours, and it'l is extremely hard for me to process that she was capable of doing this. > > The fact that she showed absolutely no signs that she was cheating makes it even worse for me. It makes me feel like she is a psychopath. > > And reading those messages where she compared me and him in bed, where she joked about how at home she was the caring housewife and mother but on business trips she was his dirty girl... has honestly disgusted me in a way I don't know if I can ever get past. This is how I feel right now, but we'll see how I feel in a few weeks.
What happened after the other wife filed for divorce?
> She filed for divorce today. Where we live, the divorce petition isn't served immediately. It usually takes one to two weeks to reach the other spouse by mail. However, she told me she is going to make him leave the house as soon as she files so that is today. > > Right now, both of our spouses are at work in their cities, so I have no idea what is going to happen once they get home. I'm expecting some kind of update from her later before I come home which will be few hours after my wife comes. She also told me that she won't mention anything about me or my wife when she confronts him.
Why doesn't the other wife seem concerned about her husband's loss of income?
> She doesn't work and is currently at home with the children, while her husband earns a lot and is at least two positions above my wife professionally. > > Her lawyer gave her permission to inform his company because, even if he loses his job, once he finds new employment he will still be required to pay child support. > > From what I have been able to understand through my conversations with her, her father is very serious person, so her financial future is not really a concern. At this point, she simply wants him to face consequences for what he did. That is her main focus, and she doesn't seem to care about anything else.
Update - after 3 days
^(August 06, 2026)
Should the children be told about my wife's affair?
If anyone is interested in what happened, you can read my previous post for the full story.
In short, my wife's affair partner's wife filed for divorce. He threw every excuse imaginable at her in an attempt to save the marriage. He said he got carried away and couldn't stop, that it was only sex, that he loves his wife, that my wife was attractive but his own wife is even more attractive, that he would do anything to fix things, that he would never speak to my wife again, that there would be no more business trips and so on.
None of it mattered to her. She made him leave the house. At first he refused, but when she threatened to tell everyone at work what he had done, he finally left. She kept me updated throughout. When I got home, I immediately noticed my wife was acting very differently extremely nervous and on the verge of tears. On Tuesday evening she confessed everything.
By that point, I had already met with my lawyer and yesterday second time although I haven't told my wife that. My lawyer asked me to hold off without telling anything to my wife for a few more days while she prepares everything. She believes I have a strong claim to roughly an additional 20% of the equity in our house because part of the purchase price came from money my parents gave me. She also mentioned several issues involving investments and stock holdings that need to be reviewed and could go in my favour before we move forward.
The one issue where we disagree is the children. My lawyer believes I should tell them the truth. My children are 15 and 13 years old. They are very close to both me and my wife. They are happy, healthy kids. My goal isn't to protect my wife's reputation. My concern is protecting my children from additional emotional pain. However, my lawyer believes I'm making a mistake.
Her argument is that we have always appeared to have a happy marriage and a stable family, so a sudden divorce with no explanation would be incredibly confusing and painful for the children. The other wife intends to report the affair to the company where both my wife and her affair partner work. Both her lawyer and my lawyer believe there is a good chance they will both lose their jobs, especially since the affair partner held a position about two levels above my wife.
My lawyer believes that if I proceed with the divorce and my wife loses her job, my children will inevitably connect the dots. She thinks they will eventually realize what happened anyway and resent me for hiding the truth from them. She also raised the issue of the financial settlement. She believes my wife may be more willing to agree to a more favorable division of assets could help repair her relationship with the children.
Likewise, if I ultimately decide not to divorce, my lawyer believes I could negotiate a very strong postnuptial agreement because my wife would be desperate to rebuild trust with both me and the children. She also believes that if I don't tell the children the truth, they might end up blaming me for the divorce and that my wife could portray herself as the victim.
At first, I wasn't convinced by my lawyer's reasoning. She is relatively young and doesn't have children herself, so I struggled to understand her perspective. But the more I think about it, the more I wonder if she might be right. The other wife told her children everything. They are around the same age as mine and they haven't spoken to their father for the past few days but according to her they are fine.
My children don't know anything yet. I'm trying my best to stay composed, but they have clearly noticed that something is wrong especially with their mother, who is now sleeping in a different room. I would really appreciate any advice. Does what my lawyer is suggesting make sense or would you handle this differently?
COMMENTS
What had the children already noticed about what was happening? Why won’t your wife tell the children what happened?
>They have definitely noticed that something is wrong. My son asked me what was going on, why my wife was sleeping in a different room, what was wrong with her and why she had been crying. > >I just told him that we had an argument. So it is obvious that they know something is happening. > >There is no chance she will tell them on her own. As soon as she confessed, she immediately begged me not to tell the children because she believes they would hate her for the rest of their lives. She then started doing what I mentioned before...offering everything possible for another chance. > >No. She doesn't want to tell them anything. In her mind, I will just eventually move past this, give her another chance and she will do whatever it takes for us to be happy again. Honestly, I feel like she is completely disconnected from reality right now.
What exactly did your wife say when she confessed?
>She confessed. She talked for about 15 minutes. I listened to her. She said she knew I was aware of what happened. She said she could feel it and that her affair partner had also told her that he had been kicked out of the house and that I probably knew everything. > >Honestly, I do believe her when she says she sensed it because I couldn't completely hide my emotions or act totally normal sincr Friday. > >After she finished saying what she needed to say, she asked me to tell her something. The only thing I said was that I needed her to leave me alone and change beds. Since then, we haven't really had any communication, except that she sends me messages during the day and, like I mentioned, once the children go to sleep she comes to my door asking if we can talk.
What is she saying when she asks for another chance?
>About the second chance. She is trying to explain to me that she was living two different lives. One that was a fantasy without children and another one that she says she loves 100 times more, with me and the kids. > >She says that she knows she wasn't normal, that she needs psychological help and that she will do whatever it takes to get another chance. But honestly, I don't want to listen to any of that crap right now.
What would genuine remorse look like to you?
>It depends on what you consider remorseful. For me, being remorseful is not crying and sending me long messages about how much she loves me or offering me every possible thing she can do. > >For me, remorse would be her taking action on her own. For example, telling the children what she did. Seeking professional help. Admitting it to her parents, who would be devastated and angry with her. Offering me certain additional assets in the event of a divorce. Paying for a polygraph herself to at least try to ease my mind that this wasn't something that happened before. > >It would mean her voluntarily telling the children that she is willing to do paternity testing if that would help me have peace of mind. Taking an STD test. Immediately resigning from her job and finding another one. Telling her sister and her sister's husband what she did. I need actions from her so that I can truly say she is remorseful. > >Her tears and begging me to listen to her are not going to help. Her saying she will do everything I mentioned also doesn't help right now. > >I need her to actually do something on her own so I can say she is remorseful. For the last 48 hours, she has just been staying in the room and crying and asking me to talk.
What did you find in the messages between your wife and her affair partner?
>I honestly don't know what to say. I read all the messages that the other wife gave me and to me it almost seemed like they were both under the influence of something. The conversations were so disconnected and all over the place. They also weren't talking every single day. There were weeks without any message. Most of their communication happened before business trips, mainly discussing sex. And the most disturbing part of all is that they were giving each other advice about our children and our spouses.
Was there anything actually wrong with your marriage or sex life?
>I agree with you. No, we never watched pornography. But it is obvious that she was looking for something else. Something she felt she got from her affair partner that she didn't get from me. But that is what makes this so confusing. > >Like I said, we had an active sex life. She never rejected me and I never rejected her. Of course, there were times when we were both tired, but neither of us ever turned the other down for three or four days in a row. > >She never complained or told me that anything was missing. If anything, after we had sex we would usually talk, laugh and enjoy being together. That is why all of this has been so incredibly hard to process. I feel like the biggest fool in the world and like the most pathetic man in the world.
Are you actually planning to divorce, or are you considering staying?
>I’ll be honest, I’m leaning toward divorce at around 90%. That is one of the reasons I’m considering telling the children. I want to understand their reaction and how they feel about everything. > >My biggest wish right now is that they are able to finish school normally and then go on to university and pursue the path they want. At this moment, the last thing I want is to touch my wife. That is how I feel right now, but I don’t know how I’ll feel in 10 days, two months, or later down the road. > >My lawyer told me she has handled many cases where mostly husbands initially wanted a divorce but changed their minds, especially because of the children. She said that if I decide to stay, I should consider creating a postnuptial agreement that would strongly protect my interests. > >Then, once the children leave for university, if I still haven’t been able to forgive my wife and move forward, I could choose to divorce and start a new chapter of my life with someone else.
Why have you stayed in contact with the other wife?
>Why would I stop talking to the wife? She has told her father, her brothers and of course her children, but she doesn't like talking to them about this because they all keep telling her that things will get better and she hates hearing that and they are calling her all the time and she wants peace. > >I haven't really told anyone. So, at the moment, she is my only source of support. She gave me all the evidence, opened my eyes to what was happening and she is the only person who truly understands what I'm going through because we are both living through the same nightmare. And she likes to talk with me as well. I don't understand what is the problem seriously. > >I'm sorry, but this is literally insane. If I have to explain to my wife that she needs to cut off all contact with her affair partner just to have a 1% chance of us staying together, then I would be the biggest doormat imaginable. > >It doesn't grant them any licence to continue talking. If she wants to be with him, she is free to go. No one is stopping her. She has complete freedom to make that choice. His wife has already filed for divorce and doesn't want anything to do with him anymore, so he will be a single man soon enough. > >And how does me talking to his wife somehow give them permission to keep talking to each other? That makes no sense. If it weren't for her, I probably never would have found out about the affair. > >No, I'm going to stay in contact with her for as long as I want. I'll support her just as she has supported me and I'll be grateful to her for the rest of my life for opening my eyes to what was happening. > >If she decides she doesn't want to talk anymore, that is completely fine. I won't bother her. But right now, she does want to talk to me and she is genuinely interested in knowing everything that is happening on my end. Whether that bothers my wife or not honestly doesn't concern me at all.
What finally made you decide to tell the children?
>I have decided that I'm going to tell my children. Last night, before going to bed, I had a brief conversation with the other wife and she told me how everything went with her children. According to her, they are extremely angry with their father, but they are still laughing, spending time with their friends and otherwise functioning normally. > >I don't believe she is lying to me because, up to this point, she has been completely honest with me and that is the reason I even found myself in this situation. I don't know why everyone assumes that if I tell my children, I'm going to tell them every explicit detail. I'm not. I'm simply going to tell them that their mother had an affair and that I have hired a lawyer. > >My lawyer advised me to have the conversation with the children without my wife present so that she can't influence them emotionally with tears or interrupt the discussion. She told me that I should answer every question they have myself, not let my wife answer for me and if necessary, show them some evidence such as the messages my wife sent me apologizing and asking for another chance. > >Only after that does my lawyer recommend that the children speak with their mother and ideally I should not be present during that conversation. This is her advice based on her experience handling divorce and family law cases. > >I don't know exactly when I'll have the conversation, but it will sometime over the weekend or maybe even today.
What ultimately convinced you that hiding the affair from the children would be worse?
> Yes, that is exactly what she told me as well. She said she has handled many divorce cases and that one of the biggest mistakes parents make is assuming that their children shouldn't know anything. > >According to her, the biggest mistake is often made by husbands who believe they have to carry the burden alone, keep the affair a secret and protect the children by hiding the truth. > >She told me that, in many cases, the children eventually become angry with their fathers for never telling them the truth. Instead of protecting the relationship, it often results in the children ending up with strained relationships with both parents. > >No matter what, somehow I end up being blamed. For what? To protect her? Or to protect them?They are not stupid. Over the last few hours, I have had conversations through texts with my son because he's looking for answers. And now I'm supposed to lie to his face. > >From the way he talks to me, it already seems like he thinks I have done something wrong. Four or five days ago, I saw this very differently. But not anymore. I've made up my mind. I will listen to my lawyer and I'm going to tell them. They don't need to know every detail, but they will know that their mother had an affair.
Final Update - after 5 days (after 2 days from last post)
^(August 08, 2026)
Final Update: Should the children be told about my wife's affair?
I’ll post an update here so people don’t need to keep commenting and giving me advice about whether I should tell the children or not. Yesterday afternoon, I told them. Just the three of us. Obviously, they were shocked. They had a lot of questions and demanded that I not lie to them. They wanted to know absolutely everything. Where, when, who, the affair partner’s name, his wife’s name, what they look like, the messages, etc. I didn’t tell them everything, but I did tell them the basic details like where it happened, when it happened and why, according to my wife.
I thought my son would be extremely angry and my daughter would be very emotional, but the opposite actually happened. My son was very calm and told me that he had already suspected something like this, so he was mentally prepared. He just thought that I had done something wrong. Hearing that obviously made me even more relieved that I had told them. My daughter, on the other hand, was absolutely furious with my wife and for the first time I heard her use some very harsh language.
They asked me about the divorce and I told them that, for now, that is my plan. They took that very hard, but we are taking it day by day. I brought them home and then left so they could talk to their mother privately. Everything I'm about to say is based solely on what the children told me because I neither saw nor heard any of it myself, but according to them, they yelled at her for a long time.
My son contacted her parents and told them what had happened. He said he had already called them in the previous few days asking what was going on and they apparently didn't know. What I find very strange is that they never called me afterward to ask what was happening.
Anyway, her parents immediately told her to come stay with them and the children told her to leave the house. I spoke with her parents. They are absolutely devastated. They can't believe what happened and are worried about how this will affect her, but also the children.
They asked me about the divorce. I told them that was the plan and I immediately realized that I probably shouldn't have said that because they will obviously pass that information on to her. But I wasn't exactly in the best mental state at the time. I haven't seen her. She left before I got home. From what I can tell, she only took a small amount of clothing and that is it.
She hasn't contacted me at all since last night. No calls, no messages. She did call our daughter, but our daughter refused to answer. That is basically it. Honestly, I feel much better and I'm glad I told them.
The idea that my children might blame me for her affair and for the possible divorce was something I could never accept. A huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders. It is also much easier now that I don't have to pretend in front of the children that everything is fine. Obviously, they are taking this very hard. They are extremely angry with their mother and are saying things like they'll never speak to her again, which is understandable at this point.
Some people have been messaging me saying that she betrayed only me and not the children, but I don't agree with that. How did she not betray them when she betrayed their father and their family? That way of thinking makes no sense to me. Thankfully, there is no school right now, so they have time to process everything and spend their time however they want.
It is very important to them that nobody finds out about this because they are embarrassed and worried about what their friends might say. I promised them that nobody would know except my lawyer and that I wouldn't even tell my best friend. My lawyer is happy with how I handled things. She said she'll need until Tuesday to gather information and investigate everything regarding the assets and then we'll have a meeting at her office.
The other wife has also been informed. She is extremely happy. She isn't even hiding how pleased she is that my wife's world has fallen apart. She is planning to contact the company next week and inform them about the affair involving her husband and my wife.
I'm a little confused about why she is waiting and how exactly she plans to do it, although she told me she knows her husband's supervisor. I'm also not sure what her plan is if that person tells her that nobody is going to be fired. She keeps saying that she has everything under control and knows exactly what she is doing, but she doesn't tell me the details.
Maybe she doesn't trust me enough to share everything. I don't know. Either way, she is moving forward with huge steps while I'm still in complete shock. That is it for now. You don't need to give me any more advice. I have read practically every comment and thank you all for the support.
COMMENTS
FSmertz > As my earlier comment predicted, your daughter will hate your STBX wife for a long time, a very long time. If she watched even a small amount of Disney stuff and other fairy tales that inculcate "living happily forever" values for romantic relationships--especially for girls, then she feels betrayed in her heart. > > Speak with a highly recommended therapist experienced with family infidelity impacts, and see if therapy for the three of you or individual therapy, or both, is recommended. Also ask about timing. > > I'm surprised that the OBS's attorney is letting her contact the company directly. Perhaps the attorney will be Plan B. A letter from an attorney to the employer highlighting facts and questioning use of company resources for adultery will not be ignored--especially if it's a publicly held corporation. It's far cleaner and cheaper for the employer to fire these two. > > I'd be very neutral with your communications with your STBX wife. Logistics and financial responsibilities and all that maintenance talk. > > Do you think she will get together with her AP out of emotional desperation in the coming week? > > OOP >> Honestly, I don't believe she will stay in contact with the AP. That is my opinion, but then again, I also thought we had a great marriage and look what I found out. I spoke with her parents this afternoon and they told me that she is completely devastated. When our daughter refused to answer her call, she apparently turned her phone off. I don't know whether she has turned it back on since, but she hasn't called me or the children and honestly, none of us wants to hear from her right now anyway. >> >> As for the other wife, I don't know exactly what her plan is. What she told me is that she knows her husband's supervisor. I asked her how close they are and she said she knows him very well. He is one of the key people at that branch. >> >> I asked her what would happen if he decided not to do anything and she told me not to worry because she has another plan and will accomplish what she has set out to do. Her lawyer has given her full support, but I don't know whether she is actually involved in any of this. I don't have those details and the other wife isn't telling me anything about it. >> >> That is why the whole thing seems a little strange to me, especially because she has apparently been waiting all week to tell anyone, despite supposedly knowing her husband's supervisor personally. In any case, she has repeated to me that getting her husband fired is the only thing she wants, along with my wife being fired as well. She says she doesn't care about the consequences because money isn't an issue for her since she comes from a wealthy family and has full support from her father. >> >> Her only goal is revenge and to move back to her hometown with the children as quickly as possible. Apparently, her husband's loss of employment is a key part of what needs to happen for the court to approve the relocation of her and the children.
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