u/SnooBananas3247

Let me clear this discord surrounding whether Indus Valley Belongs to India or Pakistan

I’m a Pakistani

The borders of both India & Pakistan are purely drawn on basis of religion, NOT that one is Indus & other is not, or for any genetic or civilizational reason

Both Civilizations are children of the Indus Valley

Pakistan however had the earliest and larger settlements (Mohenjo Dark & Harappa)
Which lie fairly inside Pakistani territory

India has (surprisingly) more recent & numerous but smaller IVC settlements & eventually the settlements moved into India & extended it to the Ganges (just like ancient Sumeria relocated & formed “Mesopotamia”, Iranian Median & Elamite Civilizations formed the Persian Empire)

Plus both India & Pakistans 90% of population live in a uniform continuous Fertile Crescent called the “Indo-Gangetic” plains, between the Indus & Ganges River

This fertile region was so vast & everyone in this area (from brahuis to Bengalis) nearly shared the same heritage, it’s not divided by any river or geographical boundary. It was always seen as unified by every external & internal force (Alexander, Persia, Muslims or Europeans)

Happens so much that Radcliffe boundary cuts straight through it

Pakistani nationalists think the Ganges is a different civilization but no, it’s the continuation of the same one & is more recent. So much so that the Indus Valley was later abandoned & Ganges became the successor. They did not exist at the same time.
(Indus Valley: 6000-7000 years old
Ganges: 3000-4000 years old)

It’s like how capitals move, Mecca to Madina to Kufa to Damascus to Istanbul

Just like our capital moved from Karachi to Islamabad

In the same way the Indus Valley extended into the Ganges

(Plus they are the closest & most similar to each other, Indus Valley isn’t closer to Persia or Iraq, or China, it’s only closer to its offspring civilization the Ganges)

Indian nationalists think Indus valley were Hindus but that’s not true, while Hinduism did incorporate local beliefs of IVC, it was the steppe Aryans that migrated/invaded & brought their Vedic religion to the Ganges long after Indus was Abandoned.

Genetically the closest people to the Indus Valley are Brahuis, Sindhis, Rajasthanis, Seraikis, but their DNA is universally spread across the entire subcontinent

Here’s the fun part;

The IVC people are themselves an amalgamation; called Dravidians

The Dravidians are a mix of Iranian Neolithic Zagrosian Farmer & AASI (Ancient Ancestral South Indian)

Ancient Ancestral South Indian (AASI) is the oldest component of South Asia: 50,000-60,000 years ago

Dravidian(Iranian Zagrosian + AASI): 10,000 years ago

IVC: 6000-7000 years ago
Ganges: 4000 years ago

Aryan/Steppe Migration (Modern day North Indian & Pakistanis): 3500 years ago

Vedic Period: 3000 years ago

East Asian settlers (Tibetian, Nepali, Burmese): 2000 years ago

Scythian-Bactrian settlers (Afghans): 1500 years ago

Islam: 1200 years ago (brought by early Arab sailors, then later by Turkic & Afghan Invader)

The partition of Pakistan & India is literally NOTHING & has absolutely no relation to these ancient historical events

Yes, most of what’s called the Indus River is in Pakistan, but that’s doesn’t mean it’s a “Pakistani” Civilization

Heck most of the Nile isn’t in Egypt

I hate this stupid discussion so much

Also there is some truth that religious strata of our society & nation has always disregarded & disrespected our ancient lineage, for them we should never look at our ancestors who were jahil & kaafir

IVC is so old & so spread out that their genetic makeup extends whole South Asia

If anything most of the settlements are infact in India if you like it or not

The concept of Punjab & sindh didn’t even exist 2000 years ago

However, Some Pakistani geniuses claim that Indus Valley only belongs to Punjab or Sindh; never India or anyone else which is itself a failed argument because;

If Indus Valley doesn’t belong to India & only belongs to Pakistan

Then who does it belong to inside Pakistan?

Does it belong only to Punjabis? Sindhis? balochis? If it’s not possible both India & Pakistan can claim Indus, then how can punjabis, sindhis & balochis all claim Indus Valley?

Which single ethnicity does Indus Valley belong to, it surely can’t only be Punjab, or only sindh

& if it’s Punjab, then which part of Punjab? South Punjab & north Punjab?

Sindh? Which part of Sindh?

Then that means not all of Pakistan can claim Indus Valley

What a stupid take

Another thing, we cannot claim lineage from Indus Valley, it simply doesn’t make sense because it was a dead & abandoned civilization

civilizations evolve from existing ones, nod dead ones

When a civilization declines you cannot claim origin from them

The Indus civilization is 6000 years old & was abandoned 5000 years ago, so the settlements in Pakistan were long abandoned & dead that they had no living successor in that specific area

Does that mean Pakistanis belong to the dead civilization?

No, that civilization transferred into the Ganges

& product of that civilization & the Aryan invasion & invention of Vedic & Hindu religion made modern day India

Sindhis, Punjabis, Hindusthanis all were Hindu & all were descended from Ganges Civilizational Family

Literally, funny part is that the North Indian pahari, Kashmiri & Punjabi civilization of northern Pakistan “Gandhara” was a peripheral to the Ganges

In simple words; we Pakistanis & Indians are both product of first Indic & then Gangetic civilization

& all of those share the IVC

You complete cannot directly claim descent from Adam without keeping in mind the people between you & Adam

Because why did pre Islamic people in Pakistan practice Hinduism & Buddhism? Why did they speak & wrote in Vedic Sanskrit? If they directly were related to the people of Indus Valley & NOT Ganges then why did they incorporate Vedic & Gangetic culture?

All in all, let me clear this that the partition of British India was NOT made with any consideration to ancient history. Specially that the Muslim League only cared are about their own motives & their partition would actually cause them to detach themselves from the Indian history but they all accepted it for Islam (something Jinnah worried)

Jinnah also didn’t like that Nehru chose the name “India” instead of Hindustan & made it seem like the sacred name of this region belongs only to India

All in all, borders quickly drawn in 1947 have no correlation to ancient heritage spanning 5000-7000 years

Saw this thing at my grandmas house, belonged to my father’s uncle who’s been dead for 10 years & hasn’t been used for 20+ years. He used to use this to listen to some Quranic Recitation, I dunno how did he get his hands on this thing, legendary flagship boombox from 1981. I plugged it & it works!! I intend to connect this thing with a DAC/HDMI downscaler to an old Apple TV, so I can airplay from my phone or use this as a speaker for a display.
This thing has insane 40W 3-way 6 Speaker stereo with tweeters, I can hook up a mic, plug this thing with my guitar amp & eventually I use my old Logitech Z-323 sub woofer for bass!!!

This thing is gonna shake my home.

If anyone wants to try it is available here.