u/Winter_Recover357

I am glad that ttpd is slowly but surely getting it's flowers, because I really liked it and it has some of my favourite songs, seriously though loml KILLS me everytime. Some might say the positive sentiments is because of showgirl being what it is but I would disagree. Because at least in my space of the internet ttpd was starting to get it's praises almost a year after it released, and even a month or two before showgirl was released. I understand why it wasn't so well received at first though, it's one of those albums that grows on you and it's kind of an acquired taste for some. Doesn't help that it was released at the peak of taylormania and it had some of her worst songs and lyrics. And it feeling so unedited is a double edged sword. Good because it gives us an insight into everything she's felt for the past 2 years at the time making it more interesting, bad because it means that it has some songs that are just unneeded cuz no one asked for thank you aimee. Overall ttpd isn't everyone's favourite, but she's one of mine and I'm glad people are seeing the good in her.

This might come off as "you should smile more" but I don't care. Like not everything is a serious photoshoot for vogue, and honestly it becomes more and more ridiculous with the outfits they're wearing.

Like yeah we have this conversation about how kpop is often redoing trends from western music and I to an extent I agree. But that might also explain why some people think it's now mid, they don't make western music like they do anymore. Yeah you could say kpop is often just reheated nachos, but maybe then the nachos were just so good even reheated, now the nachos were mid even when they were fresh.

Harsh truth is that so long as enough people like you, you won't be cancelled. Idol said something racist? Committed a felon? Don't matter so long as they have a fanbase willing to go to debt for them. And if they have fans spending for them, the companies are willing to keep them. You have like 5 fans? You bring no money. And companies will only remove associations with you if you're not worth keeping. That's why I truly believe that no matter what scandal they do the big names (BTS, blackpink, etc.) are uncancellable. Their names are up there with taylor swift and beyonce, they can survive the controversy of the month due to their massive fanbases.

Not really a call out but more of an observation

I gotta say that whenever kpop fans are like "america isn't the center of the world" in whatever controversy is happening that week I can't help but find it ironic.

Cuz every grammy season there's huge uproar regarding the snubs, fans get excited when their faves are recognised by any american act, every u.s chart position means they outsold your fave, and every sold out venue in the u.s is used as proof of the groups success. In fact fans (and sometimes the idols themselves) tend to seek "western validation" because they know that they will be seen more seriously both in and out of korea.

Now this isn't really a knock on any specific idol or group. I guess it's more of an observation on fans (some of which I genuinely think are westerners themselve) that say "the world doesn't revolve around america". Cuz in one breathe it's used when idols are in some controversy, and then in the other breathe success of a group or idol is measured by u.s standards.

Now I think it's not a stretch to say that this is partly because of the labels. Labels themselves have been desperate in expanding their reach in america, more specifically the states. Europe isn't even treated with as much importance, and Oceania and Africa is barely given attention. And of course this is due to money cuz the u.s is the largest music market, but that kinda only proves my point. America is seen as the "key" to global recognition and maximum profit.

And that's not to say that this isn't a kpop/korean exclusive thing, I myself am from the Philippines and I see how older and current generations talk about being in america. You can see this in places like Japan too, the anime industry is also wanting to expand to america too. Is it an asian thing? Not sure. Probably more of a money thing.

So yeah america isn't the center of the world, but people sure do love to act like it is.

Before you ask, yes this is about THAT issue with BTS. But if I'm being for real this could apply to ANY public figure.

I'm not saying that they as east asians should be aware of every western pop culture figure and events, but if you're gonna branch out to the west and do these collabs with western artists then maybe at least get educated? Cuz if you want to expand your reach in a certain location, it's at common sense to at least take some time and learn about it.

So sorry not sorry that I don't feel bad that two 30 year olds are getting backlash for being ignorant. This group has enough clout to rival western acts like taylor swift, justin bieber, and beyonce, their PR team can afford the extra time for research. If they can sell out concerts around the U.S, interact with many american celebrities, even have collaborations with american artists, then I'm sorry but you should know better.

Now I'm not gonna say jhope and namjoon are abuse supporters themselves, but I'm also not gonna say that they don't deserve the backlash. Especially namjoon cuz you claim to be a feminist and yet you support a known woman beater? Of course your morals are going to be questioned.

Many people point to how manon's absence is noticeable in the music and performances. And I definitely agree, but what I think is less discussed but equally noticeable is the energy she brings to the group.

These promotional games, interviews, and lives just don't hit anymore. Manon is a naturally funny person, and also brings out the funniest from the other girls. The way she bounces off of them and vice versa was just hilarious. This isn't to say that the other girls aren't funny in their own ways, it's just that manon amplifies their energies to 100%.

I mean look at the many "KATSEYE core" compilations on tiktok, she's usually featured heavily in those. Also this might be a little biased, but we really haven't had any iconic lives since her hiatus. The two marzini lives? The m&m live? These lives made for quality memes and I miss it.

Am I just having nostalgia? Or do you agree? Can you tell I miss her lmao.

This is all speculation but I honestly believe this could be the biggest reasoning to why we're in the situation we're in right now.

Think about it; manon has told us time and time again that work-life balance in Switzerland is very different than what's demanded off of idols. And it's very clear that manon isn't really a person to just give up her beliefs on the spot just for the sake of pleasing everyone. Whereas the other girls are eager to please, very under the spell of the company's promise of stardom, and grew up with this hustle and grind culture. It's not that she wants it less than the other girls, it's just that she's unwilling to ignore her personal needs just to get it.

It's very likely at some point she was like "hey can we all like not have such stressful schedules? Cuz I want to be able to get some rest and I'm sure the other girls would want it too" and instead of "y'know what you're right, let's reduce the workload and give you six some ample time to rest and recharge" HxG was like "okay, you don't like how the schedule is? You get out of the group".

No one can deny she's a natural star, but she's also a nightmare employee for a company like HxG. I doubt they know what to do with a girl that still treats work like it's work, enjoyable and rewarding but sometimes you'd rather do literally anything else. They like the girls that will literally do ANYTHING for their dreams, not the girl that sometimes looks like she'd rather just go home.

If this were truly the case then I applaud manon cuz we should normalise not tolerating exploitation. I think that her getting this freedom from a stressful work schedule like katseye's will ultimately save her from any crushing feeling she has of her missing her shot.

What are your guys' thoughts? Do you think manon not complying with HxG's work culture is the reason for her hiatus?

TW: very ranty so be warned

Ah yes sisterhood, the cursed word present in every girl group drama. I'm assuming all of you are aware of this old tale. A new girl group is formed, they call each other sisters and soulmates for life, young girls and gays everywhere get attached and want to see them succeed. But time passes and controversies happen, comparisons begin, rumors of infighting pick up, things escalate, and god forbid a girl does ventures outside the group, all hell is loose. Fandoms become toxic, everyone chooses sides, girl group body language videos go viral, and the girls are left to deal with the brunt of the toxicity. Sick cycle if we're being honest

Ever since manon's hiatus KATSEYE has officially transitioned into the extreme part of this cycle. And in my opinion this is all made worse by the sisterhood marketing that they, and basically every girl group before them, use to gain parasocial fans. Any slight from one girl will be taken personally by the fans and that girl is seen as a traitor to the sisterhood. You can see this with manon's absence in dani's thanksgiving party, megan's beef with yoonchae, that time on snl with dani and sophia, and literally ANYTHING regarding manon's hiatus.

And my thing is does it HAVE to be this way? Does every girl group HAVE to be an automatic sisterhood? Just before they became a group they were pitted against each other for a slot, they didn't really choose each other they were just winners in a competition. This is a similar case with other kpop groups as well as fifth harmony and little mix. Why do they need to be soulmates? Why can't they just be allowed to be coworkers? Who sing good music and deliver good performances.

Yeah sure it's very likely to develop genuine friendships in these situations, but that shouldn't be the entire point. They are coworkers above everything else, in any other situation we would just accept that some will become bffs, some are just acquaintances, and others will loathe each other and just tolerate each other cuz work must be done. But no we gotta mention how we're sisters for marketing.

Now we can't have petty arguments like most people, say "she was just annoying me at the time", or even "we're actually not that close we just do a job together", without someone on tiktok ready to spin us as jealous mean girls praying on the others downfall and get millions of views off of it. And even if they were genuine sisters, you can't even argue like normal sisters do without being branded as a moral failure that is disserviced the sisterhood.

I genuinely do believe that most of the toxicity within the fandom regarding manon's hiatus wouldn't exist if it weren't for the sisterhood marketing that they keep on doing. Cuz whether it's real or not doesn't matter, what matters is that they need to uphold that image. Cuz if they were allowed to just be coworkers with some developing genuine bonds, manon's hiatus would be seen as a purely business dispute between an employee and company. Now because of the sisterhood myth, anything about the hiatus paints any girl as a traitor to her sister.

Manon's on a forced hiatus? Lazy bitch sabotaging her hardworking sisters. Dani's dad being a creep? Two-face that secretly hates her. Megan and Lara talking about the situation in a private chat? Talking shit about someone behind their backs. Sophia being a clear mouthpiece of the company with the PR friendly answers? A traitor of a leader to her supposed friend and sister.

This type of nonsense is exactly what sank fifth harmony at their prime, any tension with the girls was exaggerated by toxic fans weighing in and moralizing heir every move. They weren't allowed to be just coworkers, or even have petty arguments without people calling them backstabbing bitches. It's all very tiring after seeing it for the 17th time.

Sorry this was long, can you tell I hate this cycle lol? Just let the girls be man, let them be just coworkers or at least friends that occasionally fight.

This is mainly to the manon solo stans that swear up and down that the other 5 are a bunch of mean girls that are the reason why she's on hiatus.

Look I get it the situation sucks ass. Manon is clearly in a forced hiatus, HxG is clearly hiding the real reason, the other 5 can't speak on it, and they can't even give us the decency to just release a statement of her departure. All that sucks.

With that being said; I highly doubt manon having beef with the members plays a major part in it. Could drama between them be a cover up for the real reason of the hiatus? Likely. Does it at least show that the other girls are complacent to whatever powers is fucking manon over? Definitely. Is it proof that these girls have the power to remove a member just cuz they hate her? HELL NO. Please go back to reality for a bit.

This is a billion dollar company that aims to work idols to the bone in order to get the most money, why the hell would they remove one idol if they aren't liked by their groupmates? Not saying they can't be part of the problem, but they are minor players at best in this. In normal corporate terms it's like removing an employee just because they aren't liked by their coworkers.

Let's say manon was some bully to the others, it would be SO EASY to kick her out and publicly deem her a bad person, so if that's the case why not just do that? And let's say manon was being ganged up by the others behind close doors, why would that be enough to kick her from the group? If she was being bullied why not kick those bullying her? Why not just tell her to deal with it, publicly pretend to be sisters, and continue working? Why the hell would higher ups care so much that megan or lara hate manon so much they'd force her on hiatus?

Do I make sense? I hope I am.

My point is that internal conflicts between the girls leading to manon's hiatus just seems so... out there I guess. It would be so easy to just kick her out and paint her as a meanie, or tell her to suck it up and pretend to like them. So the fact that they DIDN'T do that means that there's bigger issues than just the 6 girls not liking each other.

And by that I mean that one member that overshadows the rest of the group to the point they're seen as "them and their backup performers" to the public. They don't need to be the most talented of the group, they need to BE the group, or at least the most popular. Like the group would crash and burn commercially if they were to be kicked out.

The obvious case is of course queen bey herself, but there's also justin timberlake with nsync, harry styles with one direction, and camilla cabello with fifth harmony. They were essentially the main characters of their group and it was obvious that the group wouldn't function without them, plus they had the most successful solo careers of their band mates.

With the current situation some people would go with manon but I don't think it's that accurate. Yeah sure there's an obvious gap between the group dynamic, both in music and interviews/lives, but it didn't really "stop functioning" without her. More accurately she's doing good outside of the group, while the group is adapting fine during her absence. Some say dani because hxg is "pushing" her by making her the visual and giving her more lines, but I don't think it's really overshadowing the others. She's still on an even level with the other girls, which you couldn't really say the same with kelly rowland, liam payne, and normani.

Idk what's your thoughts on this? Does KATSEYE have anyone who overshadows the rest?

So I'm pretty sure we're all aware of the "manon is lazy" narrative. While I definitely don't agree with it I do understand the frustrations the other girls had with her during training. Key point here is the OTHER GIRLS DURING TRAINING. Cuz let's be real she WAS given more grace than some of the other girls; no consequences for breaking curfew and missing rehearsals, and allowed to see family and stay with her aunt.

What I don't get is how HxG basically punished her for the grace THEY themselves gave her. If these things were such bad characteristics for a trainee, why not kick her out? Why bother keeping her if these qualities were issues? And not to mention how they basically were the ones pushing the lazy narrative onto her. Letting the other girls' frustrations build for so long, allowing the trainers to peddle the same narrative, and to top it all of giving her the villain edit in the documentary.

Why let her get away with all of these things if you were just gonna punish her for it anyways? Make it make sense.

Edit: I need y'all to realise that this ISN'T ABOUT THE HIATUS. It's about how manon was treated during dream academy by HxG. Since when did I mention the hiatus in this post? Please READ.

Edit 2: Please for the love of god understand that I am not talking about the hiatus or her time after debut. I am talking about how she was treated during dream academy. So stop talking about what could've happened that caused her hiatus.

I genuinely do believe that HxG is mistreating manon with this "hiatus" (among other instances) but I highly doubt the 5 other girls have anything to do with it.

In fact their silence aside from a few vague statements about wishing her the best is enough proof that the company is covering up the real reason. If sophia were to say that manon's hiatus wasn't for health reasons but because they're mistreating her, she would be publicly saying that they're trash. And no company wants that from their employees. At best she could get a scolding from a representative, at worst she'll join manon on a "hiatus".

So it's really weird to me that people are dragging the other girls for not speaking up for manon, cuz do you want these girls to get into trouble? Also shouldn't their avoidance of mentioning her name be enough evidence that this isn't a normal hiatus in the first place?

And yes you their silence destroys the sisterhood image that they created, but I feel as though that's a topic for another time. And again even if they did consider her as a friend/sister they're all still employees under HxG, so once again speaking the truth will still get them in trouble.

What I'm trying to say is that it's unfair to paint the other girls mean girls, racists, or hating on manon for being silent. When instead their silence should be used as proof that the company is hiding the real reason for the hiatus cuz if it was just sickness, the other girls wouldn't be so vague and quite about it.