Played disco Elysium for the writing, and am primarily interested in this game for the writing. I thought disco elysium was the best written game I've ever played.

Of course, answers here will be skewed towards appreciating zero parades' writing, but I'm assuming a large portion of people here enjoyed Disco Elysium too, and unlike the Disco Elysium sub where there is a fat chance of unapologetically putting this game down and general gaming subs who don't really have the same targeted audience I'm trying to consult, this seems like a good place to ask.

So, how is the writing from a literary standpoint?

To give you an idea of what I'm looking for, I really liked the depth of the themes and the myriad of themes and ideas ranging from the occult to the politics that Disco Elysium touched upon. I liked the nuance in Harry's character regarding several aspects that you could explore, and enjoyed how the politics and concepts the game touched on apart from the main character weren't just cookie cutter representations of concepts like communism and authoritarianism that you see portrayed in modern media in a clean cut good or bad view. I also enjoyed how the characters and different random things seemed to connect with each other thematically or literally.

However, I did not like the pretentiousness at times, and the consequent one dimensionality I felt at times. I didn't like how the political ideology you built for Harry was largely one dimensional, like it's either you go full in on communism, ultraliberalism, royalist, etc or you become a flat out ridiculed centrist if you picked nuanced choices. Seemed the authors took the easy way out and didn't allow for nuance.

I also did not like the vagueness and lack of optional exploration of the world and how it left things largely abstract.

And lastly I felt the macro of the story and events and in some facets the world was extremely lacking. Like, extremely lacking. It could've been far more tighter while touching up on similarly high level concepts. The game format quite literally allowed them to get away with this.

Honestly, this post was due earlier, but I got lazy. The recent periodic semi-surge in discussion about this series and character has gotten me to finally make this post.

I've already prior commented a lot of this reasoning in reply threads before, but they typically get extremely downvoted in a cultish manner with barely any replies or views.

Why Am I Making This Post?

There seems to be a massive population of people in this subreddit who believe that the elements of controversy (such as, what is essentially grooming) in Mushoku Tensei make it a poorly written story.

Under every single post regarding Mushoku Tensei, there will be people trying to play saints who assimilate all the upvotes by posting some low quality "Sad Pedophile to Happy Pedophile" meme or some extremely thoughtless remark that makes them feel smart by playing a moral judge, and thus everyone who even mildly disagrees with them is the very devil.

So even though this is a writing subreddit, most posts containing Mushoku Tensei will result in a few commenters with the ability to critically think posting nuanced takes and accumulating immense downvotes while circular thinking proponents merely wash away their arguments, as if it's so blatantly obvious that the inherent fact of there being morally bad elements in the series and character make them poorly written.

I'm not even the biggest fan of Mushoku Tensei; I think it's tied for the greatest Japanese Isekai I've read alongside Re:Zero, but by no means do I view it to be the greatest piece of fiction ever told or anything.

"Rudeus Is A 'Pedophile'"

Cutting through any play of semantics, yes, congratulations, you are right.

Rudeus is a developmentally stunted man who was terribly abused as a child in his past life, hanged on gates naked, taken pictures of and fat shamed.

He never had the opportunity to ever date/pursue romantic interactions as a teenager or in his youth. Clinically, this form of stunting/trauma/abuse is the same kind that often results in many paraphilias and disorders, including what is known as Pedophilic Disorder.

When a person has severe conflicts and trauma related to a period in their life, many characteristics and desires from that period then remain throughout their life. For example, someone abused by their parents who had anger management issues are much more likely than normal to grow up to have anger management issues and be abusive, themselves.

Does this justify Rudeus's actions and behavior? No.

Is it logically sound and well contained within the story, and thus "well written"? Yes.

If the Author Just Wants to Make Him a Flawed Individual, Why Make Him A "Pedophile"? Why Not Something Less Extreme?

The same reason an author will make a main character a murderer, thief, another kind of criminal, or on the other extreme, a Saint or righteous character: To emphasize certain themes and ideas.

Even if you're meant to relate to a certain character in a story, the author will utilize extreme methods to emphasize a certain theme or idea. Good examples include:

Walter White (Evolves from a chemistry teacher to a drug kingpin responsible for dozens of deaths)
Anakin Skywalker (a mass murderer who depicts the cruelties of society in a dramatized fallen hero fashion),
Raskolnikov (Murders an elderly pawnbroker with an axe just to "test" a theory that he is a "superman" above the law)
Patrick Bateman (serial killer most ppl won't relate to that emphasizes the emptiness of consumerism and the need to "fit in.")
Eren Yeager (Commits global genocide to ensure the survival of his people, showing the loss of innocence and weight of freedom)

You aren't meant to relate to the actions of most of these characters. The series do not want you to become a Darth Vader, a mass drug dealer, a serial killer, or conduct genocides.

(Now, there is a difference in those characters and Rudeus, in that Rudeus doesn't have as thorough "narrative punishments" in regards to said flaws. In this sense, he's a bit unique of a character. This topic will be covered in a later point below)

This is the case even if the series will sometimes attempt to make the character's reasoning justified and where they're coming from understandable (Eren's Rumbling, Darth Vader's Hatred of the Empire and how it represents his past mistakes).

In Rudeus's case, the extreme nature of him being a pedophile is not something you're supposed to directly relate with or condone. However, the themes associated with his developmental trauma, male loneliness, or struggles with characteristics of yourself (that are the result of the failures of society and other cruel uncaring people) are ones that are very relatable for many.

So yes, you heard that right. You're supposed to be disgusted by Rudeus's actions and disappointed in them.

He's supposed to represent:

How a punishingly reprimanding society, cruelty of the world, and lack of consideration of others (those who bullied him in high school, and his parents who didn't really care for his health) can fail a man
But furthermore, how if society has failed you, even if you do technically have a chance to improve yourself, it's so very hard to pull yourself up from the slumps instead of regressing inwards forever and ever.

That is what him not even showing up to his parents funeral and opting to jerk off in a secluded room is supposed to represent. That's why he tries so hard to be considerate to his new parents in his new life, but, inevitably fails, with his father dying because of his actions and his mother remaining in a permanent vegetized state for the rest of his life.

That's why in his new life, he retains many of his flaws, no matter how much he tries to change himself (e.g., In S1/early volumes when his father reprimanded him for treating it all like a game and having fun with Ruijerd and Eris instead of taking the separation of the mass teleportation seriously,

Only for him to continue to treat it all like a game and result in his father's death in his carelessness in a fight. Chopped in a half, right in front of him.)

"So Why Doesn't He Completely Change?" (Hint: He does change. Just not entirely into a Saint-Like Character)

First of all, he does change. After his reincarnation, he is never attracted to anybody younger than his biological age.

NOTE: I do not mention this to justify his attraction to kids, but to rather show the direspancy and growth in how in his prior life, he directly retains the developmental disorders causing him to be attracted to kids as a biological adult, which is no longer the case in his new life.

In fact, he on several occasions such as in regards to Aisha (who was convinced by her mom to be indebted/to service Rudeus) mentioned that he does not find an attraction towards kids younger than his biological age.

Secondly, Rudeus is never meant to change completely. This will be elaborated on in the next point.

The fact still stands, however, that he is semi-unfaithful and has a polygamy, two of who are the wives that he "groomed". Doesn't this mean the story is rewarding his behavior?

No. And in fact, this is touching on some of the points I made earlier, including the one on how Rudeus is meant to demonstrate how the failures of society can create permanent, irreversible flaws.

And as I said in the prior point, Rudeus is never meant to change completely. He is supposed to remain a realistic, flawed individual (unlike Subaru, who I won't go on a tangent on here but he represents the more idealistic progression towards a saint-like character with no lasting effects of the failures of society) who goes from being the waste product of society, bringing zero value to neither any individuals (couldn't even show up to his parents funeral) nor the world on a mass scale, to being someone, who despite being flawed, is of immense positive impact on both the individual lives of many, many people (Ruijerd, Sylphie, Roxy, Eris, Cliff, Elinalise, his siblings Aisha and Norn, his step-mom, Nanahoshi, and so, so many more) as well as the world on a mass scale (saves the human face of the 6 faced world and has stone memorials erected for him).

"But Why Do a Lot of His Bad Actions... Get "Washed Over"?"

Thomas Jefferson owned 600+ slaves in his lifetime, and he had even written "All Men are Created Equal" in the Declaration of Independence. So did George Washington; widely praised by many respected individuals and the masses, placed in the position of honorary First President, he nevertheless with a count of over 300 slaves.

Mahatma Gandhi was a bigot and racist with very controversial remarks against African people. He slept with many young women including his very own grand daughters, admitting to being aroused/erect (source: https://faculty.som.yale.edu/jameschoi/gandhi-the-non-saint/ ).

In general, many people who we respect throughout history were not, in many regards, people who should be looked up to and praised in all regards.

Yet, we still praise and commemorate them to some extent.

Why?

Not because we're praising or rewarding their bigoted, racist, immoral, self contradictory and at times even horrendous behavior.

But rather, in spite of them not being a fabled saint and possessing many flaws, they had a profound, massive positive impact on both the world as a whole and many individuals on a smaller scale.

And as stated previously, this is exactly the archetype Rudeus is supposed to represent.

He starts off as the worthless garbage of a failed society, with massive developmental trauma and social anxiety and possessing absolutely zero value to any individual on a small scale nor the society on a larger scale.

Yet, the author wants to demonstrate that, even this person, the lowest of the lows, when offered a second chance, even if he's not capable or talented or just physically able to fix a lot of his biases, flaws, misperceptions, still manages to improve himself and, as aforementioned, become a massive positive influence on both the world and many individuals on a smaller scale.

Most people in Rudeus's new life would tell you that he was one of the best humans, both interpersonally and impactfully, to ever exist; nobody in Rudeus's old life would tell you that.

This is why the "Sad Pedophile to Happy Pedophile" agenda is so dishonest. If that's all you got from Mushoku Tensei, then that is a major sign of your own lack of critical thinking. not only does Rudeus has plenty of positive change, even going against the idea of being a pedophile, but he also has major development on both the scale of interpersonal values as well as societal values that demonstrate just how much he has changed.

His happy life isn't a reward for being a pedophile; it's a testament to the fact that despite being flawed, despite doing bad things and costing people's lives and failing to change himself over and over that those people, including his wives, still love him.

Well, Why isn't He Self Aware of This?

The same reason why Thomas Jefferson, who literally wrote "All Men are Created Equal", owned slaves under him. Because the biases, prejudices, behavior and disorders that arise throughout one's upbringing are very hard to go against unless there is provided an active feedback loop (which Rudeus's new life can't, since nobody knows he's a 40 year old man).

Is it morally good? No.

Is it logical and self contained to his character archetype? Yes, very much so.

Why Doesn't the Story Punish Him (explicitly, because he certainly gets punished implicitly) For His Flaws/Actions?

Two reasons

Firstly, because that's exactly what his original life and world did. If the world forever kicks a guy in the dumps lower and lower with an endless feedback loop, the guy will never climb out of the ditch. The punishment is exactly what his prior life undergoes. He's flawed. Permanently. Developmentally flawed. It's hard to fix, but in his second life, he showed that if given a second chance, even scum can fix many of their flaws.

Secondly, the setting/premise can't logically do that. It's in the same manner of how Gandhi never got punished for his racist/bigoted views and disgusting tendencies, or Jefferson and Washington never got punished for owning slaves.

When we praise them, it is not in attempt to wash away their flaws (same in regards to Rudeus's "rewards", even though he undergoes plenty hell); no, it's in to highlight the good that they did even with their flaws, because their good was that profound.

It doesn't make any sense to have Rudeus be punished for his flaws any more than it does them when the only people who arguably know of his reincarnation is Nanahoshi (who doesn't even know much about him/hardly remembers him), Man God, and maybe his 3 wives who love him regardless (it's implied in the main light novel series, explicitly confirmed in MT Redundancy but that was kinda scrapped so maybe non canon?)

Anyways, that's about it for now. Note that, again, none of this is a "moral defense".

I don't even know how successful this post will be, but if anybody has any disagreements or thoughts even after reading all this, feel free to comment.

p.s. for anybody who cares if you see MT slander that gets covered in this post, feel free to just share this post with them instead of trying to form a long argument in the comments because that will never go well lol.

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