u/jrralls

[OC] The Luck of Being Born in the Right Year: U.S. Real GDP Per Capita Growth Across Working Lives
▲ 88 r/madmen+1 crossposts

[OC] The Luck of Being Born in the Right Year: U.S. Real GDP Per Capita Growth Across Working Lives

Personal choices matter a tremendous amount and I am a huge believer in personal responsibility and that individual people can absolutely wreck a good hand or play a bad hand amazingly well, but also the huge gigantic macro forces which an individual has ZERO control over matter in ways we don't often like to think about it.

I was curious what the average REAL per-capita growth rate was for an average American's working life. Had to make it crude so I assumed that people's working life through America started at age 20 and stopped at age 60. 40 years of real work. Obviously some people were working in the mines at age ten and some work into their 90's but exceptions. need for some workable model, yada yada yada.

So if you were born in 1913, the chart measures your working life as 1933 to 1973. If you were born in 1872, the chart measures your working life as 1892 to 1932. This is all adjusted for inflation, using real GDP per capita in constant 2017 dollars, so this is not just “prices went up” or “a dollar was worth less.” It is trying to measure how much real economic output per person grew during the years someone was likely working.

Basically: What GROWTH did you probably see in your own personal working life?

Two birth years stand out, 1972 and 1913. Someone born in 1913 turned 20 in 1933, right at the bottom of the Great Depression, and turned 60 in 1973, after the New Deal recovery, World War II mobilization, the postwar boom, highways, suburbs, cheap energy, mass consumer goods, the spread of higher education, the rise of corporate America, the peak of American industrial dominance, etc. Their real GDP-per-capita growth from age 20 to age 60 averaged about 3.61 percent per year, which is gigantic when compounded over 40 years.

The worst birth year in the completed-working-life chart is 1872. Someone born in 1872 turned 20 in 1892 and turned 60 in 1932, which means their working life ends in the nadir of the Great Depression. The real GDP-per-capita growth for their country from age 20 to age 60 averaged about 0.26 percent per year. That's not nothing but it's not -far- from nothing, in relative historical terms. They lived through railroads, electricity, telephones, automobiles, mass industry, steel, oil, cities exploding upward and outward, America becoming a huge modern power, and yet their working-life average growth was pretty garbage.

So imagine two half-brothers. This is not some insane edge case. In 1870 the United States had about 38 million people. Mortality was much higher and widowers remarried while birth control might as well have not existed. So many men had children across wider stretches of their lives. So _somewhere_ in America (statistically speaking) a man had a son young in the 1870s, outlives a wife, remarries later, and has another son in the 1910s. Two sons to the same father born about forty-one years apart. It's not common, but it absolutely happens.

The older half-brother is born in 1872. He is a child in the post-Civil-War United States. He grows up in an America of farms, railroads, coal smoke, horses, factories, immigration, disease, panics, strikes, debt, and hard physical work. He comes of age around 1892. Maybe he works a farm. Maybe he becomes a railroad man. Maybe he works in a mill. Maybe he becomes a clerk in some city- but whatever he does he's going to be average at it. He sees the country modernize with his own eyes. He sees electric light, the telephone, the automobile, the rise of giant corporations, the Spanish-American War, Progressivism, World War I, the 1920s boom, and then, at the end of his working life, the economy falls through the floor.

That man can be hardworking. He can be sober. He can save. He can marry well. He can be careful. But if his working life is 1892 to 1932 ( and he is around average) his relative growth experience is terrible. And of course the average person is around average.

Then there is the younger half-brother, born in 1913. His father is older now. Different wife, later family but this younger son turns 20 in 1933, which probably feels like the worst possible time to become an adult. Banks have failed. Farms are being lost. Men are out of work. The country looks broken. But! He has an incredibly bright figure in terms of relative growth, he is standing at the bottom of the elevator shaft right before the elevator rises faster than it ever has in American history before or since. He gets the rebound. He gets the postwar order. He gets an America which briefly, has around 50% of world GDP and that then becomes the central machine of the world economy. By the time he is 60, in 1973, if he has lived an average life he has seen his personal lived experience explode.

So assuming that they both _somehow_ make the average income for each year. It wouldn't really go like that, but go along with it for math's sake. So the first-born-half-brother will start his working life in 1892 making 6,398 (in Real GDP per capita, year 2017 dollars) and 40 years of work he will end his working life making $7,110 (in Real GDP per capita, year 2017 dollars). Basically an 11% total growth for 40 years worth of work. (https://www.measuringworth.com/datasets/usgdp/ )

The later born brother on the other hand will start his working life making the average the national average of $6,980 (in Real GDP per capita, year 2017 dollars) per year in 1933 and end his working life making the national average of making $28,812 (in Real GDP per capita, year 2017 dollars). Basically he'll have seen a 387% total real growth in his income for 40 years work of work. (https://www.measuringworth.com/datasets/usgdp/)

Or to put another way, these two men who both made the average for their country will have one see his lifetime income increase 35x more than his half-brother because he was born at a better time.

Obviously there can be x-factors, looking for a job in 1933 as a 20 year old is not great, WWII is a risk (but a manageable one for an American - 93-94% of US servicemen in WWII were not seriously wounded or killed and and if he's married at 30 with kids he might not be drafted either) but on the other hand the eldest-born had to grow up in the days before Germ Theory so his life was probably more objectively dangerous.

But if we are measuring the growth of the country’s real output per person during each adult working years, one caught the most powerful upward wave and one caught a historically awful working-life window.

The lesson is not that individual decisions do not matter. The lesson is that individual decisions are made inside giant forces we do not get to choose. Our place in history matters.

u/jrralls — 8 hours ago

Cheapest to buy Six Feet Under digitally?

I just bought the entire seven season of Mad Men on Amazon Prime for $20 and was wondering, what is the cheapest Six Feet Under has gotten to purchase digitally (preferably on Prime)?

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u/jrralls — 3 days ago

Did Outsourcing Chores Abroad Actually Improve Your Quality of Life?

The big draw to me of eventually living in a lower-cost country where my dollar can go 2x-4x as far is honestly so that I could hire a cleaner and a cook and use Grab/Local-Uber instead of driving.

I am exceptionally busy right now at my phase of life with a full-time job, a commute, wife, kids, housekeeping, and cooking. For me it is constantly "Have-To-O'Clock," where no matter what time of the day it is I almost always "have to" get something done, and if I don't it'll just build up and get worse later. Even when I try to relax, some part of my mind keeps warning me, "It's Almost Tomorrow!"

When I was broke in my 20s and going grocery shopping and having to watch what I purchased, I told myself that I would consider myself "rich" if I could grocery shop without really caring about the price of the food I buy. Well, I achieved that a while ago and thought about what my next level of "rich" would be. I decided that now I will consider myself "rich" if I never have to do another load of dishes again.

That is, I COULD do a load of dishes if I felt like it, but if I'm rich enough to have someone who will come in and clean, or maybe even have regular household help, then I won't really HAVE to do the dishes unless I feel like it. That's my current standard of "rich."

I don't think I'll ever be that level of "rich" in America, but if everything goes as well as it possibly can, in about five years I should be able to run my business digitally from anywhere in the world while still making a significant income. At that point, places like Vietnam or Thailand become very appealing because the budget should allow me to hire a cleaner and a cook and use Grab/Local-Uber instead of driving.

What I really want to buy with geoarbitrage is time. I want to be wealthy in hours. I've never really had problems being bored, and I have a ton of interests and projects that I legit think will keep me busy and happy and excited to get up each day. But as always, it's best to talk to people who have actually done it.

So for those of you who have hired a cleaner, cook, driver, or just use Grab/Uber everywhere: how was it? Was it what you hoped for? Was it less or more than you expected? Did it actually improve your quality of life? Did you have a hard time filling the hours it freed up? What surprised you? Any advice?

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u/jrralls — 8 days ago

For Expats in Vietnam Who Hire Help: Did It Actually Make Life Feel Easier?

A big draw (not the only, but a big draw) to me to semi-retire to Vietnam (probably under a DT3 investment Temporary Residence Card or even just via border runs) is honestly so that I could hire a maid and a cook and use Grab instead of driving because in Vietnam my dollars would go 4x as far.

I am exceptionally busy right now at my phase of life with a full time job, a commute, wife, kids, housekeeping, and cooking. For me it is constantly "Have-To-O'Clock" where no matter what time of the day it is I almost always "Have-To" get something done and if I don't it'll just build up and get worse later. Even when I try to relax some part of my mind keeps warning me, "It's Almost Tomorrow!"

When I was broke in my 20's and going grocery shopping and having to watch what I purchased I told myself that I would consider myself "rich" if I could grocery shop without really carrying about the price of the food I buy. Well, I achieved that a while ago and thought about what my next level of "rich" would be and decided that now I will consider myself "rich" if I never have to do another load of dishes again. That is, I COULD do a load of dishes if I felt like it, but if I'm rich enough to have someone who will come in and clean (or just a live-in-maid) who will eventually do the dishes instead of me then I won't really HAVE to do the dishes unless I feel like it. That's my current standard of "rich."

And I don't think I'll ever be that level of "rich" in America but if everything goes as well as it possibly can, I should be able to retire in five years (again, best case scenario) and if I go to Vietnam my budget should allow me to have a maid and a cook and use Grab instead of driving.

What I really want to buy with my retirement in Vietnam is to be wealthy in hours. I've never really had problems being bored and have a ton of interests and projects that I legit think will keep me busy and happy and excited to get up each day but as always it's best to talk to people who have actually done it.

So for those of you who have hired a maid or a cook (or both) or a driver in Vietnam or just use grab everywhere in Vietnam . . . how was it? Was it what you hoped for? Was it less or more than you expected? Have you had a hard time filling the hours that it freed up? What surprised you? Any advice?

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u/jrralls — 8 days ago

Wealthy in Time by Hiring a Maid & Cook - Anyone Done It? Was it What You Hoped?

The big draw to me to retire to a low-income country where my dollar can go 2x-4x as far is honestly so that I could hire a maid and a cook and use Grab/Local-Uber instead of driving.

I am exceptionally busy right now at my phase of life with a full time job, a commute, wife, kids, housekeeping, and cooking. For me it is constantly "Have-To-O'Clock" where no matter what time of the day it is I almost always "Have-To" get something done and if I don't it'll just build up and get worse later. Even when I try to relax some part of my mind keeps warning me, "It's Almost Tomorrow!"

When I was broke in my 20's and going grocery shopping and having to watch what I purchased I told myself that I would consider myself "rich" if I could grocery shop without really carrying about the price of the food I buy. Well, I achieved that a while ago and thought about what my next level of "rich" would be and decided that now I will consider myself "rich" if I never have to do another load of dishes again. That is, I COULD do a load of dishes if I felt like it, but if I'm rich enough to have someone who will come in and clean (or just a live-in-maid) who will eventually do the dishes instead of me then I won't really HAVE to do the dishes unless I feel like it. That's my current standard of "rich."

And I don't think I'll ever be that level of "rich" in America but if everything goes as well as it possibly can, I should be able to retire in five years (again, best case scenario) and if I go to Vietnam or Thailand the budget should allow me to have a maid and a cook and use Grab/Local-Uber instead of driving.

What I really want to buy with my retirement in the third world is to be wealthy in hours. I've never really had problems being bored and have a ton of interests and projects that I legit think will keep me busy and happy and excited to get up each day but as always it's best to talk to people who have actually done it.

So for those of you who have hired a maid or a cook (or both) or a driver or just use grab/uber everywhere . . . how was it? Was it what you hoped for? Was it less or more than you expected? Have you had a hard time filling the hours that it freed up? What surprised you? Any advice?

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u/jrralls — 8 days ago
▲ 1 r/DaNang

Da Nang Air Quality: Can you FEEL the Difference Month By Month?

So according to quantifiable statistics there is a significant difference in air quality in Da Nang month by month. My question for you: Can you personally FEEL a difference in breathing month by month depending upon if things are getting better or worse?

u/jrralls — 9 days ago
▲ 2 r/DaNang

Quietest Places To Stay in Da Nang?

I know "quite" and "Vietnam" don't really gel together that often but is there any place in Da Nang that you would say comes the closest to being quite?

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u/jrralls — 9 days ago

Exact Locations on the Americas Map That You Love

Are there any exact very specific locations on the historical America map that you find to be the best of the best and always use?

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u/jrralls — 9 days ago

1492 Colonization of the New World - Is "One-More-Turning-Me" - Spiritual Successor That Has Done That For You?

1492 Colonization of the New World is a Spiritual Successor / Modernization of 1994's Colonization and it is just clicking with me.  I bounced hard off of Civ 7, despite trying it multiple times and loving Civ 1-6, but this little game that is basically just Colonization with some quality of life and graphic improvements sucked me in and I wish I had more time to play it.  

What is a Spiritual Successor of an old video game that has done that for you? 

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u/jrralls — 11 days ago
▲ 2 r/madmen

Don’s Drug Tripp (a tale of two cities)

In a tale of two cities, Don has a drug tip that ends with him looking at his own body in the pool. Before that happens, he ends up talking with a bunch of people who don’t exist. Do you think was actually talking to people? Or was he talking to a wall?

And what do you think made High Don end up in the pool? Attempted suicide he knew (on some level) would fail?

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u/jrralls — 14 days ago

9 Out of the Last Ten US Elections Went Against the Party That Held The White House

2024 Presidential Went against White House party
2022 Midterm Went against White House party
2020 Presidential Went against White House party
2018 Midterm Went against White House party
2016 Presidential Went against White House party
2014 Midterm Went against White House party
2012 Presidential Did not go against White House party
2010 Midterm Went against White House party
2008 Presidential Went against White House party
2006 Midterm Went against White House party
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u/jrralls — 14 days ago
▲ 39 r/movies

So I’ve had a rough five years healthwise,. Everything else in my life has been going well, but my body keeps betraying me. All in the last five years I’ve developed plantar fasciitis (minor pain in the heels of my foot, everyday) arthritis in my knees (minor pain everyday when I walk, use stairs, or sit too long) a faulty disc in my neck which required replacing my neck disc with an artificial neck disc (and which gave me permanent nerve damage, which gives me minor pain in my arm, and minor pain in my neck, everyday) as well as minor aches and pains (everyday) in my joints when I wake up ( which seems to be me developing arthritis outside of my knees).

It’s not like I have cancer, it’s not like I have so much pain I can not function, but I am starting to forget what it was like to have a day without physical pain and I just have a lot less energy and on a fundamental level pain makes me sadder than if I was not in pain. But the good news is all of this is minor pain. On a scale of 1 to 10 it’s usually a 2 to 3 but it’s a 2 to 3 every single day at various times throughout the day.

All of these are something that was basically “ sucks to be you -itis” in that, there was nothing I did that caused it, nothing I did that could’ve prevented it and all the doctors said it was basically just bad luck.

Now the problem with depicting this on screen is that it’s (a) pretty boring, just sucky and (b) pain is an internal thing and it’s hard to get across in a visual medium like film.

But have any films really tried? Are there any films out there that deal with people having to deal with daily chronic pain? How do they capture it? How do they make it interesting?

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u/jrralls — 21 days ago

My wife and I are planning to visit Vietnam around Christmas 2027, most likely Da Nang, as part of what we call our “country shopping” research, that is, we are considering the possibility of retiring abroad in the early 2030s, and Vietnam is high on the list. We did Costa Rica as our 2026 test trip, and Vietnam is probably next for Christmas of 2027.

I lived abroad in Japan in my early 20s, but that was a long time ago. Now I’m thinking about what life abroad would feel like in my early 50s: daily routines, health care, noise, traffic, weather, food, community, language barrier, walkability, and whether the place feels livable after the vacation glow wears off.

For people who know Da Nang well: what should we do, see, and pay attention to if the goal is not just “have a great vacation,” but to do our best (in only one week!) to answer “Could we actually live here someday?”

Specific things I’d love advice on:

What neighborhoods or areas should we stay in if we want a realistic feel for daily life?

Is Christmas/New Year’s a bad or misleading time to judge Da Nang?

How hard is it to get around without speaking Vietnamese?

How big of a quality-of-life issue are traffic, noise, and crossing streets?

Are there good places to meet expats or long-term foreign residents without just hanging around bars?

What are the things people love about Da Nang after six months that tourists might miss?

And what are the things people only notice after the honeymoon period ends?

(note: I’m not asking anyone to sell me on Vietnam or scare me away from it. I’m trying to figure out how to visit with my eyes open.)

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u/jrralls — 23 days ago

In 2001 I moved to Japan and lived there for two years. I then moved back to the US where I have lived ever since. If everything financially goes perfect I am considering the possibility of retiring in 2031 to Vietnam* (will be going on a "test retirement" trip to Vietnam in the winter of 2027 where me and my wife will go there for a week sans kids to see if it's a good fit for retiring, we did a similar thing this spring for Costa Rica).

My question: Has anyone else taken a 30 year long (hack, wheeze) break from living abroad? If so, what where the main differences between living abroad in your youth vs living abroad in your middle ages? What problems are there in living abroad that you could handle in your youth easier than when you are older? Anything easier about living abroad when you are older?

*I've had family members try to talk me out of the possibility of retiring to Vietnam because of the war. I point out to them that when I moved to Japan the US-Japan war had been over for 56 years and that if I move to Vietnam in 2031 at that point the US-Vietnam war will have been over for . . . 56 years. I got to admit some part of me likes the poetry in that.

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u/jrralls — 24 days ago