u/whatelseonapizza

Hey guys, as a bi guy who kinda read alot about current gender wars I was anxious about whether my life would be "easier" if I were a woman.. so I talked with actual women about it and came to some conclusions while reading from struggles from both sides. It's an open thinking discourse so just so yk I didn't use academic terminology but bascially I came to vague conclusion that nobody has it easier per sé and I wanted to ask if my thinking makes sence.
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Tbh I really want to check if I am delusional or actually having a valid point but here is my opinion, I primary thought of non-conforming men and women but then also about conventional men and women:

- Gay men get more outward backlash but mostly from men who are misogynist... so those men aren't going to applaud for a lesbian obviosly

- Homophobic women are mostly 50/50 but I would also argue that most women are more likely going to accept gay men than lesbians since they might feel threatened by lesbians

- People who are acceptable however accept both. Period.

- The question also is.. is it a masc gay men or a fem one. I would argue that masc gay men are pretty much accepted except by hardcore homophobes and I mean gay men are still men so lesbians deal with homophobia + misogyny. I would say it really evens out. Also women are not only hated in their masc role but also in their fem role.

When it comes down to masc women and fem men, I think it's just that women need to be much more gender non-conforming to be interpreted as masculine since many masculine things like jeans and pants are now seen as neutral.

However I still saw masc girls get hate PERIOD! I think reactions towards fem men are stronger, but then again by men who are MISOGYNISTIC.. so are women really winning here?

Also I think that fem men are also at the same time more supported, f. e. feminine men strive in feminine industries. Girls are going to buy make up from Jeffree Star and James Charles but are boys equally interested in women's football or tech..? I think women in masculine jobs are still seen as "less" by conservative men.

So what I want to say with it, I don't think any group has it harder per sé, I think we all men and women face dificulties just in different ways and I think it kinda "evens out" in a way. Also I was reffering to western countries btw.

What do you think about it? Is it a logical or scientifically legitimate way to think?

But also even when talking about masc men and fem women... we all face dificulities just different ones and I do believe we are now working on both kinda equally if that can be said. Yes feminism exists longer but men also had queer movements to free them as well. I think straight men are the ones who maybe don't have a political movement per sé but indirectly profit from all other movements and also many men don't have any wish to be restricted as well.

I mean do we judge men for showing emotions? Yes. But people who do it... are they applauding women for being emotional or just calling them weak for it? We shame men for their sexuality especially with men... and we don't shame women's sexuality? Come onnnn!

So as said I really don't think as a group anyone has it easier or harder and I really do think we work on both. Nobody is any more free till everyone's free till then we are all restricted in our own way. Again talking about western countries

Tbh I really want to check if I am delusional or actually having a valid point but here is my opinion, I primary thought of non-conforming men and women but then also about conventional men and women:

- Gay men get more outward backlash but mostly from men who are misogynist... so those men aren't going to applaud for a lesbian obviosly

- Homophobic women are mostly 50/50 but I would also argue that most women are more likely going to accept gay men than lesbians since they might feel threatened by lesbians

- People who are acceptable however accept both. Period.

- The question also is.. is it a masc gay men or a fem one. I would argue that masc gay men are pretty much accepted except by hardcore homophobes and I mean gay men are still men so lesbians deal with homophobia + misogyny. I would say it really evens out. Also women are not only hated in their masc role but also in their fem role.

When it comes down to masc women and fem men, I think it's just that women need to be much more gender non-conforming to be interpreted as masculine since many masculine things like jeans and pants are now seen as neutral.

However I still saw masc girls get hate PERIOD! I think reactions towards fem men are stronger, but then again by men who are MISOGYNISTIC.. so are women really winning here?

Also I think that fem men are also at the same time more supported, f. e. feminine men strive in feminine industries. Girls are going to buy make up from Jeffree Star and James Charles but are boys equally interested in women's football or tech..? I think women in masculine jobs are still seen as "less" by conservative men.

So what I want to say with it, I don't think any group has it harder per sé, I think we all men and women face dificulties just in different ways and I think it kinda "evens out" in a way. Also I was reffering to western countries btw.

What do you think about it? Is it a logical or scientifically legitimate way to think?

But also even when talking about masc men and fem women... we all face dificulities just different ones and I do believe we are now working on both kinda equally if that can be said. Yes feminism exists longer but men also had queer movements to free them as well. I think straight men are the ones who maybe don't have a political movement per sé but indirectly profit from all other movements and also many men don't have any wish to be restricted as well.

I mean do we judge men for showing emotions? Yes. But people who do it... are they applauding women for being emotional or just calling them weak for it? We shame men for their sexuality especially with men... and we don't shame women's sexuality? Come onnnn!

So as said I really don't think as a group anyone has it easier or harder and I really do think we work on both. Nobody is any more free till everyone's free till then we are all restricted in our own way. Again talking about western countries

Hey everyone,

Something I come across very often in the media is the debate about masculinity and how supposedly conservative young men have become.

I’m a young man myself (22), and I think it’s important that we’re having these discussions because rigid gender roles and the patriarchy are harmful to both women and men.

That said, I’d actually argue that my generation seems to be the most progressive so far. Most guys my age seem to support gender equality. You can also see how the image of masculinity has changed: people are much more open about mental health, men are generally more relaxed, more physically affectionate with each other, and even more fashion-conscious than they were 20 years ago.
You see all kinds of people. A guy with painted nails and a muscular gym bro can be in the same class, and everyone gets along just fine. I mean even some Rappers nowadays have painted nails. There are also plenty of people who don’t really fit into any particular box. And I’m not just talking about some progressive “bubble” either—I saw this everywhere, from vocational schools to university.

At the same time, I’m aware that since COVID we’ve definitely seen a backlash against the more progressive politics of the 2010s. That’s why I’m wondering: is reality really the way the media portrays it? Sometimes I get the impression that, as a progressive or moderate “modern” young man, I’d actually be part of a minority.

In real life, though, it seems to me that the manosphere is just a loud minority, and that the broader shift to the right is much more moderate. I also think it’s mainly driven by two factors:

1. Dissatisfaction with progressive parties that have already been in power.

2. Many young men don’t fully identify with parties like The Left or the Greens because those parties haven’t really addressed young men as a voter group (apart from queer men).

I can understand that to some extent. I also know people my age who would vote for more conservative parties, and they’re neither sexist nor homophobic. They’re mostly voting that way as a form of protest. This is also my main point... does voting more right/conservative automatically mean we are on the same level of conservativism like 20 years ago? I mean I don't think that even gay republicans are a strong minority anymore

What do you think? What’s your impression? Is the manosphere just a loud minority, or have young people really become more conservative than the Boomer generation? And where do you think things are heading from here?

Hey Leute,
etwas was ich sehr oft in Medien begegne ist eben die Debatte rund um Männlichkeit und wie konservativ die jungen Männer seien.

Ich bin selber ein junger Mann (22) und finde es natürlich gut, dass wir darüber diskutieren da starre Bilder sowie das Patriarchat beiden Frauen UND Männern schaden.

Ich würde sagen meine Generation scheint mir auch da die progressivste zu sein (so far), ich mein die meisten Männer meines alters scheinen mir für die Gleichberechtigung zu sein, man sieht auch wie sich Bild der Männlichkeit verändert hat: Mental Health ist vieeeel offner, man ist entspannter, touchier unterwegs sogar auch modebewusster als vor 20
Jahren. Ich denke "moderne" Männlichkeit ist weiterhin das Leitbild. Man sieht doch alles, einen Typen mit lackierten Nägeln und einen gepumpten Gymbro in der selben Klasse und alle verstehen sich. Außerdem gibt es auch viele Mischformen die in keine Box reinpassen per sé. Ich zB mag auch "traditionell" männliche Dinge und tue auch Dinge die man vor 20 Jahren als feminin abstempeln würde. Das berichte ich auch nicht einer "Bubble" von Hauptschule bis Uni war überall alles zu sehen.

Mir ist aber natürlicu auch bewusst das wir seit Covid definitiv eine Gegenbewegung gegen progressiver Politik der 2010er Jahre haben. Ich frage mich da her, ist es alles so wie in Medien, da bekomme ich den Eindruck ich wäre als ein progressiv/moderater "moderner" junger Mann eher eine Randgruppe? Jedoch im echten Leben scheint mir, dass die "Manosphere" eben eine laute Minderheit ist und die der "Rechtsruck" eher moderater ist und der Hauptgrund für diesen eher:

1. unzufriedenheit mit progressiven Parteien die schon an der Macht waren
2. viele junge Männer identifizieren sich nicht komplett mit Parteien wie Linke, Grüne, da diese junge Männer auch nicht explicit als Wählerschaft angesprochen haben (außer queere Männer)

Was ich dann auch eher verstehen kann. Ich kenne auch manche Gleichaltrige die eher konservativere Parteien wählen würden und die sind weder sexistiscu noch homophob oder sonnstiges, sondern wählen diese eher aus "Protest". Was denkt ihr, wie nimmt ihr es wahr? Ist es eher die laute Minderheit oder sind wir in der Mehrheit wirklich konservativer als die Boomer und wie denkt ihr kann sich das weiterentwickeln?

Hey guys,

we're all aware of current culture wars and voting gender gap but my question is... is it all the way it is potrayed in media.

Personally I am a quite progressive guy, yet I would say I am very open minded and I have talked and hanged out with people with different political positions. However I noticed one thing: even guys who would vote conservative, still support queer rights and "modern masculinity" (mental health, more broader ways to express yourself and ways you can be as a man etc...), while voting "right" mostly because of stuff like imigration or feeling of being "unseen" by most progressive and leftist parties.

Yes there is a manosphere and a conservative wave and that IS something new for young people but the way media potrays it makes me to believe that we young men are as conservative as idk our grandads, but in real life I still notice that masculinity was never so "modern" than it was and as said I still do think that majority of young men still support many socially progressive stand points, while the "manosphere" or really conservative young men still represent a loud minority. Also I would point out that today things seem to be much mire mixed, I saw even queer men or even feminine presenting ones on right wing podcasts.

So my question is, what do you think about it? Am I delusional for thinking the way I do, because beside the shift we experience I would still argue that we do live in most progressive times when it comes down to gender expression even among men.

I’m 21 and sometimes I feel like I don’t suit into any box.

I like sports, martial arts, art, music, movies, cooking, history, science and a lot of other things. I listen to metal, but I don’t really look or act like a metalhead. I also like rap, EDM and pop, you name it... but I don’t suit into those scenes either. I’m bisexual, but I don’t really suit into the queer scene. I love martial arts, but I’m a pretty peaceful guy and don’t relate to all the red-pill stuff that some people around martial arts are into.

In general, I feel like I’m too alternative for normal people and too normal for alternative people.
The weird thing is that in real life this has never really been a problem. I’ve always had friends from different groups and got along with all kinds of people. But online, especially on social media, it feels like everyone has already picked a box. People seem to have a clear identity, a community, a label, a celebrity they relate to or copy, or a lifestyle they can point to and say, “that’s me.”
I don’t really have that. There are people I relate to in certain ways, but nobody where I think, “that’s basically me.” I feel like I’m just a mix of a lot of different things that don’t necessarily go together.
Sometimes I wonder if everyone feels this way and social media just makes people look more one-dimensional than they really are or if people hust give up on their individuality to pass into society more easily. Or am I actually unusual for not feeling like I belong to any particular box?
Does anyone else feel like this? I asked something similar in other sub reddits and people
told me that I just should be myself and my past therapist told me that "everybody fells that way" but I am asking myself... is it really the case?

PS: I am also not against of any "scene" I meantioned I just don't feel fully aligned with any

Hey guys, so I always hear about how "right-wing" we have become, especially young men but tbh I still don't really feel it has become that extreme like the media potrays it to be.

For refference I am a gen z guy, I would describe myself as liberal since I am not really supporter of either capitalism or patriarchy as I do think that both systems do harm to everybody, however I don't feel aligned to any political party.

Yes the gender gap is real but it isn't that dramatic as media potrays it to be... but maybe I am wrong, because even the guys I have met that state that they are right wing are still pro gay marriage, eco friendly, mental heakth aware and concious etc...

I really do believe we are still with distance the most liberal generation when it comes down to lifestyle choices, gender & sexuality, economy, and just being concious of the issues in the world currently.
So tbh I think the divide just happened due to extremity of social media and really extreme narratives from BOTH sides.

So my question now is.. are we still THE most liberal generation so far or am I just delusional.

Pls be nice to eachother in the comments all opinions are accepted (as long as not discriminatory) we don't need more divide than we already have people ahahah

Hey Bisexuals (and others),

I am a bi M21 and have been overthinking about my sexuality in general for past few days (not the first time it's happening 😖)

I don't know why and I hope I don't come across as rude but my anxiety often tells me I would have it "easier as a woman" in life, especially since my female best friend came out as bi.

I am well-rounded guy who is masculine and let's say "straight-passing" but than again progressive so I would say quite a "modern mix". So far I did not really have problems with being bi, my friends could understand it and women of my age so far found it either neutral or even positive and I was not in a specific bubble or anything. I am also only a top if that matters (and to some people on the internet I guess it does). I actually even got alot of compliments from people from being more well-rounded than a toxic masculine guy. As a student at a university I am obviosly aware of patriarchy, capitalism etc... so often when I am struggling with acceptance or dating I ask myself "but those people
who wouldn't get are mostly either conservative or not suiting to you anyways OR are insecure, and my best friend told me that I don't need an insecure partner anyways"

But lately I find myself feeling bad for being a man, like that being a curse, because I often have a feeling women are "freer" and omg I am so SO happy for women and I wish all women all the best lord my best friend is a woman, my MOTHER is a woman! I just wish us men to be on the same bar... as I always read of how stigmatized our sexuality is.

But then I came to deeper thinking... who says wlw is not stigmatized? I did encounter straight women being fine with gay men but being "disgusted" by bisexual and lesbian girls. Than also women get also shamed for being sexual with men too (slutshaming and so on) so who says women aren't shamed for their sexuality. Also masc lesbians (or women in general) also get hate I saw it in school as well (eventho most people were tolerant towards all kinds of queer identity). Also as I know bisexual women tend to get fetishized by straight men which isn't really acceptance? Again as a man my struggles feel the worst for me but that's the reason why I am asking for some clarity. Also I guess I also have some benefits of being a man since we live in a patriarchal society

Sometimes I really think it's not that big deal and I feel even "blessed" for being bi, I mean it is the best of the both worlds at the end of the day but sometimes it feels like a curse and I wish I could be someone else, sometimes I think my sexuality and my qualities by also being creative and stuff would come across better if I were a girl or life would be easier if I were just a regular most average straight man known to exist.

Than again some people on Reddit told me I exaggarate how "restricted" men are in our society so maybe I am just overthinking...

For context I live in a big city in Germany and also every girl I was into happened to be some sort of bi (and trust me on some you could NEVER guessed, like you can't in general imo)

I also hope I didn't insult anyone sorry if I expressed myself in a wrong way I hope you all understand what I mean so I hope for some tipps on how to accept oneself as a bi man and maybe even find happiness in it, again I also have read many guys saying they wished they were bi so maybe it isn't a curse in our society...

22yo guy here, I kinda overthinked this topic for a bit but I am just curious what do you think about it.

I am aware that I see alot from my POV as a man so obviosly I will never be able to know how it feels to be a woman but sometimes I have a feeling women are much more free to live a life they want and they become less backlash.

But then on another hand I don't think it's that way, but I've seen alot on Reddit so I am not sure what do believe tbh. Like yes even in cases in which men are more loudly punished for breaking gender norms, they are punished by people who are mysogynestic anyways so does that make women more "free" and respected overall?? Hard to say. I mean it's just like a question who has it harder gays or lesbians, I would say both have it hard it depends where you are. In a girls school you're probably going to get hate from straight girls who still want to have gay bff and if you are in traditional masculine surroundings I guess both would get hate but then also today's world is so diverse that is hard to tell I mean have you seen how many gay men are in the manosphere and in conservative circles?

Anyways I hope it doesn't come across as rude or anything I am just curious what your thoughts are since I sometimes find myself really asking if we men are overall more repressed and stuff eventho feminism is fighting for us all