r/ChristianUniversalism

Nose era ateo después teista tengo una postura aniquilacionista y pues me tiene algo de sentido que la gente no sea torturada eternamente sino que deja de existir Pero como ustedes llegaron a la conclusión de ser universalistas digo tampoco me gusta la idea de un infierno y que versículos se apoyan para ser así y cuales creen que no apoyan esa postura y porque lo acusan de herejía soy nuevo en esto así que nose a qué se refieren con herejes y si eso hace su postura falsa y pues veo chido una reconciliación universal Pero dudo de su postura

Universalism is often seen as a "liberal" view, or it has obvious philosophical or theological problems. To be sure, it is by no means a perfect or flawless view. I want to clear up the misconceptions about universalism that misrepresent it and do not contribute to the conversation.

I'll start with the biggest and go down the list. I'll try to keep it as brief as possible, but this is a big subject.

**I. “Universalists don't believe in hell.”**

This one is common, but not without warrant. While a few universalists (e.g. Hosea Ballou) deny that anyone experiences hell, the mainstream view is more like *purgatorial universalism*, the view of Gregory of Nyssa historically, or David Bentley Hart, who is its modern champion. In purgatorial universalism, those who go to Hell are there until their sins are purged and atoned for. After ages of purification, they are welcomed into Heaven.

**II. “Universalism means sin doesn't matter.”**

This view is also common and understandable, but it assumes that even in Heaven we are all in the same state. Again, while some universalists hold this position, it is not the majority view. Just as some in Hell may be afforded varying degrees of punishment, so too Heaven may have varying degrees of 'reward'. This has roots in Augustine and Aquinas in the infernalist camp and Origen and Clement in the Universalist camp.

**III. “Universalism rejects the Bible.”**

I won't deny that there are tough verses. Still, it's also hard to ignore some of the more optimistic verses in the Bible, such as John 3:16, 1 Timothy 2:3-4, Colossians 1:20, and Acts 3:21. Is the Bible decisively in favor of universalism? Of course not, but it is not as if there are no verses that cannot be read through a universalist lens.

**IV. “Universalism means all religions are equally true.”**

I see this one less often than the above, but I see it nonetheless. However, the premise 'All will eventually be saved' does not necessarily entail 'All religions are equally true'. It very well may be the case that some people will be in purgatory until they accept Christ.

**V. “Universalism is a modern/liberal innovation.”**

Universalism has always been a minority view (and much more so in the medieval period). But it has ancient roots, starting with Clement of Alexandria. Other figures include Origen and Gregory of Nyssa. Even Jerome in his early period was a universalist (though he later abandoned this view). Augustine recognizes that it was a minority view in his own time and, despite his strong convictions about eternal Hell, even he did not call universalists heretics.

**VI. “Universalism is an emotional position; you're just uncomfortable with the idea of Hell.”**

I can understand this view when there are a lot of people today who reject Christianity outright because of Hell. It's a tough question to be sure, even for purgatorial universalists. Why doesn't God just save everyone right off the bat? But this is not necessarily an emotional position. The theologians I mentioned above did not come to universalism from an emotional position. There are strong scriptural, theological, and philosophical grounds to question eternal Hell.

I, for one, am an 'analytic universalist'. If one believes a few core premises about God, it seems contradictory to believe that God could damn anyone for eternity, but emotions have no bearing whatsoever on my view.

I hope this clears up some misconceptions if you're unfamiliar with universalism. If you're an anti-Universalist, hopefully this allows you to engage the topic on better grounds instead of a flimsy strawman

Perhaps because they are going against God's desire and will to save everyone, they are in direct rebellion against The Almighty. I would like to add that they are free to think that way in this life, but not without its own inherent consequences, such as living in fear.

Bad translations lead to Bibles that contradict themselves. Take the Berean Standard Bible (BSB). Which verse is correct and which is wrong? This can be an effective way to open the minds of infernalists.

Matthew 25:46 BSB

And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

Luke 3:6 BSB

And all humanity will see God's salvation.

Hi all,

As I am moving between states, the issue of finding a church I can call home is important to me. Like some of you here, I became a confident universalist because I see it genuinely supported in scripture. Its not something I came to (necessarily) because of external philosophical reasons (although they are compelling). As such, I would like to join a church body that has a high view of scripture (this is what I mean by theologically conservative) but won't throw me out for being a Universalist. I obviously don't think I will find a church that isn't normatively infernalist, but at least I would be happy if they can understand how someone in good faith might reach a different conclusion. Bonus points if its confessional.

Cheers!

To be clear I’m not a Universalist but there’s a very clear and logical way to debunk Arminianism, Provisionism, and Molinism leaving only Calvinism and Universalism as the only views of salvation that can possibly be true that I think you guys might find interesting and helpful.

Universalists like to use 1 Tim 2:4 and 2 Peter 3:9 to prove God wants to save everyone, I interpret these differently but they can still be interpreted under the Universalist view that God wants to save everyone.

Combining that interpretation with Psalm 115:3, 135:6 which state that God does everything he wants, the logical conclusion is that God must save everyone if he desires the salvation of all. Arminians, Provisionists, and Molinists will have you believe that God wants to save everyone but Doesent which contradicts Psalm 115:3, 135:6.

A while ago I saw a very popular post here on Reddit that asked, how to still be saved even if Universalism isn't true?

I don't remember reading it, maybe if I practiced what it says in that post I would be better, but the thing is I don't have to! I have my personal convictions I feel the holy spirit in myself and so I'm doubling down on Universalism!

I'm no longer a Catholic who hopes that everyone will be saved. I am now a Catholic who KNOWS EVERYONE WILL EVENTUALLY BE SAVED!

The only thing that still bothers me is, I'm not very skilled with bible verses to back this up. So if you are a Universalist with more knowledge than me feel free to drop your opinions, and if you're also doubling down on Universalism :))

Hello! I am a pastor’s wife at a traditional (not “old-traditional” just… “non-CU-traditional” lol), non-denominational church. Though I don’t agree on everything at our church nor on everything with my husband, I do feel like I have found a super healthy church-home, my husband and my small group are very open-minded and love hearing my different opinions and thoughts and questions and challenges that I bring up regarding the “normal” viewpoints that don’t agree with CU.

ANYWAY.

I am wondering - is there anyone else who sometimes really struggles with feeling like being under the Christian umbrella is kinda like … being part of a cult? 😅

Now obviously I try to run from that idea the most I can by leaning toward this Christian Universalism idea. But I still find myself struggling with this idea sometimes and trying to just balance my beliefs and my faith with my views of the world/etc.

Hello! My partner randomly said she wants to start going to church again and i got pretty happy! I’ve always prayed about her wanting to get closer with God. I am a universalist, but she is not. The church she said she wants to go to is kinda your typical evangelical, pentecostal church. I grew up in this kind of church but i left it. I’ve had a hard time trying to find a church that is more open to universalism.

Im nervous to go to a church that doesn’t teach what i find true to be the nature of God. I feel like i wont be fully into the service because of it. The only place i felt comfortable was online livestreams with other universalists who do Bible study. But I also dont want to tell my partner about going to a different church since it was the church she would go to as a child.

Hi, I'm a Christian and I'm new here. I was wondering how you look at God and justice.

Obviously, the world we live in today is not justice. There is so much pain, crime, suffering and majority of it is caused by bad people.

So I'm truly wondering, where do you think those really terrible people will go? Think of Hitler, serial killers or anyone whose purpose of life is focused on harming others.

I personally cannot reconcile the fact that some people commit truly heinous crimes, children trafficking or torture and that they would all suddenly be in heaven together with no consequences to their actions.

Can someone enlighten me on what do you believe in regards to the final judgement & the justice being finally carried out?

I’ve seen videos before on social media of people trying to be funny (which I don’t think anything is funny about this topic) where they say stuff like “You know what? I’m done trying to spend countless hours trying to convince you Jesus is real! If you don’t wanna believe, fine! Go to hell then!” Never mind the fact that no one can believe without the Holy Spirit, which is up to God to freely grant to whom He chooses, but whatever.

I guess what I’m trying to say is for some people it’s easy to conclude that someone brought quadrillions+++ years of suffering on themselves when they’re just a stranger. Even though “Love your neighbor as yourself” doesn’t only apply to relatives and close loved ones.

I doubt they’ve ever agonized over whether a parent or sibling is saved (like I have when I was still a reluctant infernalist) or an uncle, or a grandmother, or a friend. Or heck, even themselves. Just crying until they hyperventilate pleading with God for a loophole somehow to still let these individuals into Paradise.

I’ve noticed a lot of infernalists seem completely apathetic over people being damned eternally if they’re a stranger on the internet, or someone they pass on the street who declines to hear the Gospel. Or the really really bad evil people. Ironically though, a lot of infernalists seem to desperately make exceptions for certain unbelievers or people who live a life of hate and violence if they’re close loved ones. “Maybe they made a death bed confession!” “Maybe they read the Bible and pray in their private time!” I guess it’s a way to cope with the cosmic horror of their beliefs.

Although I do still struggle with fears due to anxiety and OCD, I’m not completely hopeless anymore. I can’t imagine ever being a confident infernalist again. No way.

I’m putting together a list of books on Christian Universalism and wanted to check with you all to see whether I’m missing any titles or whether you have suggestions for how I might categorize the different books (I’ve tried by theme/type of argument but I’m not sure it’s working, though I’d prefer to stay away from organizing by year).

Before anyone suggests the usual places to look, I’ve already searched through this subreddit, the Christian Universalist Association website, books and authors featured on David Artman’s podcast, Goodreads lists of popular Christian Universalist books, and probably a few other sources that I’m forgetting in this moment.

I’m also using a couple of specific criteria for the list. I’m focusing on Christian Universalism, rather than Unitarian Universalism or books that approach universalism from a non-Trinitarian perspective. I’m also looking for books in which universal salvation/restoration is a primary focus, rather than books that discuss Christian Universalism briefly or only devote a single chapter to it (e.g. Sinners in the Hands of an Loving God by Brian Zahnd).

With those parameters in mind, I’d appreciate any suggestions for books I may have overlooked, as well as any thoughts on how I could better organize or categorize the books on my list.

**Collected Essays/Reflections**

* *Destined for Joy: The Gospel of Universal Salvation* by Alvin F. Kimel, Jr.
* *Joy Beyond All Worlds: Universal Salvation, George MacDonald, and J.R.R. Tolkien* by Alvin F. Kimel, Jr.
* *Reconciliation of All: God’s Grand Plan for the Cosmos* by Diane Perkins Castro
* *Reflections of a Tomboy Grandma: On the Immeasurable Worth of Every Human Being* by Diane Perkins Castro

**Edited Volumes**

* *“All Shall Be Well”: Explorations in Universalism and Christian Theology, from Origen to Moltmann* by Gregory MacDonald
* *Christ Saves All: Christian Universalist Perspectives* by Steven HAuse
* *Deconstructing Hell: Open and Relational Responses to the Doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment* by Chad Bahl
* *Five Views on the Extent of the Atonement* by Adam J. Johnson
* *Four Views on Hell* by Preston M. Sprinkle
* *Hellrazed?* by Kevin Miller
* *Love Unrelenting: Christian Universalist Testimonies* by Steven HAuse
* *Perspectives on Election: Five Views* by Chad Owen Brand
* *T&T Clark Handbook of Election* by Edwin Chr. van Driel
* *The Oxford Handbook of Eschatology* by Jerry L. Walls
* *The Problem of Hell: A Philosophical Anthology* by Joel Buenting
* *The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy* by Edward N. Zalta and Uri Nodelman
* *Universal Salvation?: The Current Debate* by Robin A. Parry and Christopher H. Partridge
* *Varieties of Christian Universalism: Exploring Four Views* by David W. Congdon

**Historical**

* *A Larger Hope? Universal Salvation from Christian Beginnings to Julian of Norwich* by Ilaria L.E. Ramelli
* *A Larger Hope? Universal Salvation from the Reformation to the Nineteenth Century* by Robin A. Parry with Ilaria L.E. Ramelli
* *Barth, Origen, and Universal Salvation: Restoring Particularity* by Tom Greggs
* *The Christian Doctrine of Apokatastasis: A Critical Assessment from the New Testament to Eriugena* by Ilaria L.E. Ramelli
* *Universal Salvation: Eschatology in the Thought of Gregory of Nyssa and Karl Rahner* by Morwenna Ludlow

**Pastoral/Popular-Level**

* *A Catholic Reading Guide to Universalism* by Robin A. Parry
* *Believable: Discover the God That Saves All* by J.D. Atkinson
* *Christian Universalism: God’s Good News for All People* by Eric Stetson
* *Grace Saves All: The Necessity of Christian Universalism* by David Artman
* *Heaven’s Doors: Wider Than You Ever Believed!* by George W. Sarris
* *Hell Bent: How the Fear of Hell Holds Christians Back from a Spirituality of Love* by Brian Recker
* *Hellfire Deconstructed: An In-Depth Study of the Bible Verses About Hell* by Eitan Bar
* *If Grace Is True: Why God Will Save Every Person* by Philip Gulley and James Mulholland
* *Jesus Undefeated: Condemning the False Doctrine of Eternal Torment* by Keith Giles
* *Let’s Talk About Hell* by Kenneth N. Myers
* *Love Wins: A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived* by Rob Bell
* *Spiritual Terrorism: Spiritual Abuse from the Womb to the Tomb* by Boyd C. Purcell
* *The Gospel of Inclusion: Reaching Beyond Religious Fundamentalism to the True Love of God and Self* by Carlton Pearson
* *The Love Wins Companion: A Study Guide for Those Who Want to Go Deeper* by Rob Bell
* *Until the Last One’s Found: An Introduction to Universal Reconciliation and Restoration* by Curt Parton
* *Why Hell?: Three Christian Views Critically Examined* by Steve Gregg

**Philosophical**

* *God’s Final Victory: A Comparative Philosophical Case for Universalism* by Eric Reitan and John Kronen
* *Once Loved Always Loved: The Logic of Apokatastasis* by Andrew Hronich
* *That All Shall Be Saved: Heaven, Hell, and Universal Salvation* by David Bentley Hart
* *The Inescapable Love of God* by Thomas Talbott

**Theological/Biblical**

* *A Brief Case For Christian Universalism* by James Dusenbery
* *A Hope in Hell* by Benjamin McNair Scott
* *All Will Be Well: Exploring the Hope of Christian Universalism* by Matthew McDonald
* *All Things New: What Does the Bible Really Say About Hell?* by Peter Hiett
* *Biblical Soteriology and Related Doctrines: Learn what the Bible actually teaches about God, Jesus, Satan, aliens, heaven, hell, judgement, death, evil, sin, predestination, and salvation* by Drew Costen
* *Christ Triumphant: Universalism Asserted as the Hope of the Gospel on the Authority of Reason, the Fathers, and Holy Scripture* by Thomas Allin
* *Christianity's Final Solution: An Analogy Between the Holocaust and the Christian Teaching of Eternal Conscious Torment* by Martin Zender
* *Dare We Hope “That All Men Be Saved”? with A Short Discourse on Hell* by Hans Urs von Balthasar
* *Destined for Salvation: God’s Promise to Save Everyone* by Kalen Fristad
* *Flames of Love: Hell and Universal Salvation* by Heath Bradley
* *Grace Abounds: A Holistic Case for Universal Salvation* by Hunter Coates
* *Grace Beyond the Grave: Is Salvation Possible in the Afterlife? A Biblical, Theological, and Pastoral Evaluation* by Stephen Jonathan
* *Heaven, Hell, and Hope: A Biblical and Theological Exploration of Universal Salvation* by Chris Kugler
* *HELL: A Jewish Perspective on a Christian Doctrine* by Eitan Bar
* *Hell and Restoration: Balancing Judgment and Universal Hope* by Matt McMullen
* *Hell Is a Bad Word: A Place of Never-Ending Punishment That Jesus of Nazareth Never Spoke of* by Michael Bahry
* *Hell Is Not For Real: Re-examining What The Scriptures Actually Say About Eternal Torment* by Micah J. Stephens
* *Hell’s Illusion: Exposing the Myth of Hell* by Don Keathley
* *Hell No!: A Fundamentalist Preacher Rejects Eternal Torment* by Charles Gillihan
* *Her Gates Will Never Be Shut: Hope, Hell and the New Jerusalem* by Bradley Jersak
* *Holy Hell: A Case Against Eternal Damnation* by Derek Ryan Kubilus
* *Hope Beyond Hell: The Righteous Purpose of God’s Judgement* by Gerry Beauchemin
* *Hope For All: Ten Reasons God’s Love Prevails* by Gerry Beauchemin
* *How Wide Are Heaven’s Doors?: The Biblical Case for Ultimate Restoration* by George W. Sarris
* *Is Salvation Possible After Death?* by William Harrison
* *Looking for His Appearing, Book 1* by J. Preston Eby
* *Looking for His Appearing, Book 2* by J. Preston Eby
* *Patristic Universalism: An Alternative to the Traditional View of Divine Judgment* by David Burnfield
* *Raising Hell: Christianity’s Most Controversial Doctrine Put Under Fire* by Julie A. Ferwerda
* *Razing Hell: Rethinking Everything You’ve Been Taught about God’s Wrath and Judgment* by Sharon L. Baker
* *The Annihilation of Hell: Universal Salvation and the Redemption of Time in the Eschatology of Jürgen Moltmann* by Nicholas Ansell
* *The Evangelical Universalist: The Biblical Hope That God’s Love Will Save Us All* by Gregory MacDonald
* *The Gospel Of The Restoration of All Things: A Study in Christian Universalism* by Tim Hodge
* *The Judge Is the Savior: Towards a Universalist Understanding of Salvation* by Jean Wyatt
* *The Purest Gospel: The Good News That Everyone Will Be Saved* by John Mortimer
* *The Salvation of All: Creation's Final Destination* by Clyde L. Pilkington Jr.
* *The Story of Christianity Told As Good News for All* by Ric Machuga
* *The Victorious Gospel: Ultimate Reconciliation Since the Early Church* by Shaun Thomas-Arnold
* *Universalism and the Bible* by Keith DeRose
* *Universalism: Fact Or Fiction: Examining What Scripture Says about the Scope of Salvation* by Dale Hill
* *What Does The Bible Say About Hell?* by Andrew Wommack
* *What is Hell?: The Truth About Hell and How to Avoid It* by J.D. Myers
* *When Heaven Invades Hell* by Joshua Rasmussen and Rachel Rasmussen

Premise: my partner is nonreligious and isn't particularly interested in christianity or religion in general, so we don't usually talk about it. Moreover, I tend to get very nervous and uncomfortable when and if I need to explain to anyone in person what I personally believe (bad experiences) so even when she asks me some curiosity, usually I default to "this is the range of opinions on this that exists in christianity (that I know of)". So usually our talks on the subject amount to oh here's a fun anecdote...

So, fast forward to yesterday, when she encountered in an IG reel the classic argument (I don't even know if you can call it an argument but regardless) of "Why would Satan punish sinners in Hell, if they went against the same God he also rebelled against?" And she asked me hey isn't that weird?

So I briefly explain that for the christians who believe Satan is a personal being, most of them do not believe Satan and the fallen angels punish people in Hell, rather they're being punished or they've alienated themselves from God (depending on what one believes) the same way as humans. But for the ones that do believe it, like for example C. S. Lewis (Narnia is one of the few christian things she has read) the explanation is the same as the one for why they want to tempt humanity into sin and damnation in the first place: they absolutely hate us. They hate God, and would really like to harm Him, but since the attempt to do this went rather poorly, humans are the next best thing, because they're God's beloved creatures that He does not want to see damned and suffering, so much so that at some point He became one of them (neat). So driving as many as they can to damnation and then making damnation even more miserable for them than it would have been otherwise is really the only victory they can achieve.

She nodded and we went on to do what we were doing, except in the evening, she suddenly comes to me really excited and was like:

"So about the hell thing there's a thing I was thinking about"

"Oh okay, what?"

"So, it's like, I thought about it, and it does not really make sense for God to have hell. Because that means he loses the war with the Devil, right? Like, only a little bit, but it's still less than a perfect win, and God is perfect, right?"

"Yeah you could say that"

"Okay so if God was doing this intelligently, after the end times he would find a way to do something so that everyone went to heaven, so now, nope, the Devil wins nothing at all! Like, how come christians never thought of this?"

Me, chuckling: "I love you"

"...this is not original?"

"If you ever travel 17 centuries in the past yes it is"

*insert loving insult*

I laughed so much. I realise it's nowhere near as funny to tell as it was to experience, but when it happened I found it so funny. 

I'm not even sure I'm asking the right question. I'm a convinced Christian Universalist and I was recently having a debate with a militant Calvinist about Universalism, as well as what puts someone outside the faith. My dream goal would be to convince Calvinists that biblical Universalism is true, and for the ones that can't be convinced, at least convince them that Christian Universalists are at least Christian (and kudos to Redeemed Zoomer as a prominent example of a Calvinist who accepts Universalists as Christians, because he knows his history.)

At the end of my debate, I finally asked this Calvinist what denials of Christ's teachings or attributes would in their opinion put a person outside the faith. Their response was simply that the line was drawn when you create another god to suit your beliefs. This person puts Christian Universalists in this category, but did not elaborate further.

So, what defines a Christian? What puts someone outside the faith? The early Christians had little concept of the Trinity, yet we wouldn't say they were outside the faith. Peter the fisherman simply believed Jesus when He said "follow me." What about Oneness Pentecostals? What about LDS members? What is faith in Christ, and what is it not? So many Christians seem to put up arbitrary boundaries. Calvinists who say you can't be an Arminian. Christian Universalists who say you can't believe in "infernalism." Christians who say you MUST believe in the Trinity. These seem like extrabiblical qualifications for being considered a Christian. We are fallen people with fallen minds so none of us has perfect knowledge of God. What is the essential knowledge of Christ (apart from perfect knowledge) we need to have faith in Him?

The reason I'm asking is I'm not really sure myself. My old answer was "A Christian is someone who looks in faith in Christ, regardless of the extent of their knowledge about Him." This would include LDS members. But maybe my definition fails because theoretically you could call a statue on your nightstand "Jesus," have faith in it and still be called a Christian. And this obviously isn't true (then again what if you had a mental illness, so maybe).

No one has perfect knowledge of Jesus Christ. So what is the minimum knowledge required to be considered a Christian?