Who east of the Rockies is breeding solid detection dutchies? Looking to start building the next generation for our household and wanting to see if there’s anyone new we should keep an eye out for? Photo of my demon dutchie for tax
He saw the beach once last summer as a 5/6 month old pup and wasn’t interested in the water, but today he had the time of his life running and chasing seagulls in the waves. We’ll be back again tomorrow. 🌅
I had a great time bringing this one to life. Chin down on the cushion, staring straight at you, stayed true to the photo, same grey bedding and knit blanket. Those amber eyes and that brindle coat were the whole challenge.
The entire artwork is hand-painted in oil from start to finish. This was a commission, and I hope his human sees him in it the way I did while painting him. Would love to hear what you think!
Hex’s housemates appreciate the couple of afternoons a week that he goes to daycare and they can just nap all day.
He’s almost 5 months old vs our other 3 dogs being ages 7, 8 and 9 years old.
I’ve got at least 3-4 minutes before it resets.
Some dried cow lung bits as lure and she already popped her head halfway under water, such a brave little girl.
Has anyone else had this when you’re out for a nice morning walk at the beach and your dog has morphed into a dog bird hybrid?
A post that comes up on this subreddit pretty often is something like, "Embark says my Dutch/Mal is actually a ~% Mal/Dutch!" This usually surprises people, but historically these two breeds have been very closely related.
The Belgian Shepherds (Mal and the other three variants), the Dutch, and even the regional herding dogs that eventually gave rise to the German Shepherd all came from the various continental European shepherd landraces.
(The GSD is a bit different story since it was intentionally created by selecting dogs with desirable traits, so I won't get into that here.)
Unlike the British collie landraces, which were primarily bred for herding sheep, these dogs were true all-purpose farm dogs. They worked alongside farmers doing just about everything (from guarding, herding, tending livestock, even pulling carts).
Although they're generally classified as herding dogs (FCI Group 1), historical accounts suggest that tending was often a more important part of their job than actual herding (Doesn’t mean they didn’t do any herdings!). Since they were bred to be true all-around farm dogs, it's no surprise that they've remained some of the world's finest working breeds.
Because of that shared history, the Belgian Shepherds and the Dutch Shepherd are much more closely related than many people realize.
The Dutch Shepherd's own history is worth looking at first. When the breed standard was established in 1898, all coat colors were accepted. In 1914, however, the standard was changed to allow only brindle, largely to distinguish the breed from the visually similar Malinois and German Shepherd. I'll leave it up to your imagination what happened to the fawn Dutch Shepherds. (Hint: the number of registered Malinois suddenly increased around that time.)
As many people already know, after World War II the Dutch Shepherd population had declined so severely that Belgian Malinois were introduced into breeding programs to help restore the breed. In 1959, Laekenois were also officially introduced to strengthen the rough-haired variety.
Then there's KNPV, which makes the story even more complicated.
The Royal Dutch Police Dog Association has essentially become one of the world's most respected working dog "brands." Technically, any dog can attempt the KNPV trials and earn a title. Today it's mostly Dutch Shepherds and Malinois (or dogs called “Dutch” or Mal”), but historically many other breeds participated as well, including Bouvier des Flandres, German Shepherds, Groenendaels, Beaucerons, Briards, Rottweilers, and others.
Unsurprisingly, Malinois and Dutch Shepherds proved to be the most successful. Since KNPV breeders cared about working ability rather than pedigree, they freely bred outstanding Malinois and Dutch Shepherds together. There are even long-standing rumors that German Shepherds were occasionally introduced to improve grip or jaw strength, although I haven't seen definitive historical evidence for that.
Because of this, it's very common for litters from these lines to produce both fawn and brindle puppies at the same time. These dogs are often recorded in working registries like BRN rather than traditional FCI pedigrees. Many working breeders simply registered them according to color—brindle puppies as x Dutch and fawn puppies as x Mal.
The interesting part is that, in some European countries like Belgium, dogs from these working registries could later be entered into FCI-recognized pedigrees before. As a result, many famous KNPV dogs—which were effectively part of the same Malinois/Dutch KNPV working gene pool—ended up officially registered as "purebred" Mal/Dutch.
That only blurred the line between the two breeds even further. So if your dog comes from working lines—or is descended from actual working dogs—it's not unusual at all for Embark to show some Dutch Shepherd in a Malinois, or some Malinois in a Dutch Shepherd because of such influence.
And honestly, it's not just Malinois and Dutch Shepherds that have this kind of complicated history.
Most people here probably know that the AKC recognizes Malinois, Laekenois, Groenendael and Tervuren as four separate breeds, while the FCI and most kennel clubs around the world consider them four varieties of a single breed: the Belgian Shepherd(Or sheepdog). It's actually the opposite of Rough and Smooth Collies, which are separate breeds in the UK but one breed in the US.
The AKC's split was largely political reason. The specific genes controlling coat length and color mean that Groenendaels can produce Tervurens, Malinois can produce Tervurens, and Laekenois can produce Malinois.
Originally, the AKC also classified the Malinois, Tervuren, and Groenendael as a single breed under the name 'Belgian sheepdog'. (The Laekenois wasn't included simply because there were so few of them at the time, and even now they are very few—it wasn't officially recognized by the AKC until 2020.) Later, following disagreements between the breed clubs, the AKC received petitions to split them into separate breeds and ultimately approved the change. In the process, the name Belgian sheepdog remained with the Groenendael in the United States.
An attempt to reunify the breeds in 1998 ultimately failed because of conflicting interests among the parent clubs, and another proposal around 2016—the Registered as Drop (RAD) initiative, which would have allowed puppies to be registered according to their phenotype rather than their parentage— also failed.
The biggest irony, in my opinion, is the history of the American Tervuren.
According to the American Belgian Tervuren Club, the breed had nearly disappeared in the United States after World War II. The American population was rebuilt largely using long-haired puppies born from Malinois lines, crossed with Groenendaels, and later supplemented with imported European Tervurens.
One last interesting fact: Vos I de Laeken, a rough-coated Belgian Shepherd, is widely recognized as one of the foundation dogs behind all four Belgian Shepherd varieties. Some historical accounts also connect the same foundation stock with the early Dutch Shepherd and even the Bouvier des Flandres.
To sum it up:
My girl just had her first heat cycle at 10.5 months and has done amazing with training recall etc and was socialized heavily during her puppyhood. Lately she absolutely loses her mind when people approach or another dog pays attention to her. She’s fine with passerbyers or on walks but going to peoples homes or having visitors has been hard to manage. Any recommendations? I’m looking at a board and train for confidence
Brought her home at 5 weeks old, hasn’t left my side for 12 years! Father time has taken a toll on my girl recently! We hope to have a couple more weeks with you! Every meal is a treat! Every day a gift!
Wanted to throw this out there as a PSA or discussion. My dutch developed a condition I have never seen/heard before.
About 3 months ago Loki “tripped” going up 3 steps into our house. Shortly after I noticed her walk started dragging her toenails. About the same time, when throwing a ball her front legs collapsed under her. A visit to the vet identified a neurological issue with her front shoulders/legs. She was prescribed Gabapentin for nerve pain, but in short it is degenerative and a management issue.
Theres been good days/bad days. Days she needs to be carried but overall she is working it. Zero gravity in the lake helps. But she cant swim or “steer” . Her muscles are atrophy, but her mind is still 100% dutchie. She wants to work/run/guard but theres no way.
I’ve never been a believer in CBD products but it appears to help quite a bit. movement helps prevent stiffness. Sadly this latest decline I don’t think she’ll bounce back from.
Never seen or experienced this but after talking with a few folks it appears to be more prevalent than I knew. And 3-4 months seems a common timeline for it to run its course.
Sharing in the hopes it helps others out there.