r/JonBenetRamsey

I know that handwriting analyses are surmised from a number of determining factors. For example, does this 'C' look like that 'C' is just one determining factor. Typos, grammatical errors, and unique or orthodox language all play a role in determining document authorship ("And hence"... etc). I would love to read one of the many complete reports from those who found Patsy to be the most likely author of the note. If they have not been released, can anyone say why? Obviously, Patsy cannot be prosecuted anymore, so it seems moot to continue to suppress these.

As the father of three girls, there’s one detail in this case that I can’t stop thinking about: JonBenét’s ponytail.

Maybe I’m overthinking it, but my daughters (almost 7 and 5½) absolutely hate sleeping with their hair in a ponytail. They always take it down before bed because it’s uncomfortable. That made me wonder whether JonBenét was actually being prepared for bed when something happened.

Another thing that stands out to me is that she was found clothed. If the perpetrator intended to hide the crime, why redress her? She was also left inside a warm house rather than being taken outside or concealed elsewhere. To me, those details suggest someone who had an emotional connection to her and couldn’t completely dehumanize her.

I’ve also wondered about the fact that she died lying face down. Again, this is only speculation, but it almost feels as though the person responsible couldn’t bear to look at her.

Putting those pieces together, I wonder if the family arrived home, JonBenét had a snack (possibly pineapple), and they began getting her ready for bed. If she was known to wet the bed, I find it interesting that there appears to have been no attempt to have her use the bathroom first. As a parent, that’s one of the last things we remind our kids to do before bedtime.

The timeline surrounding when she went to bed has also changed over time, which makes these details more interesting to me.

At this point, I personally lean toward Patsy being responsible for the fatal events. I also think there are signs that JonBenét may have experienced prior sexual abuse, though I don’t know who was responsible and don’t think it’s possible to say with certainty based on the public evidence.

Am I reading too much into the ponytail, or has anyone else thought this detail might be more significant than it’s usually treated?

EDIT/UPDATE: I am a guy who has never had long hair. Lots of commenters explained this is normal, that some people with long hair prefer ponytails while sleeping. I just follow my wife/boss’s orders and thought it was mandatory. Thanks all for clarifying! Had no clue that some people prefer it, so disregard my ignorance. Every day is a new day to learn.

I normally enjoy listening to podcasts and watching videos about this case. I just find the case fascinating, and I like seeing how different people interpret the evidence.
The thing is, I find it so frustrating when speculation starts getting presented as fact.
I hear things like, “Some people believe…” the time.

I was listening to a podcast that said that “some experts say” Jonbenét could have eaten the pineapple before going to the Whites’. Who has actually suggested that? Genuinely. Because as far as I know, the autopsy found partially digested pineapple in her duodenum, which is why it’s generally considered one of the last things she ate. If there’s evidence supporting a different timeline, I’d honestly love to read it. But “some people say” isn’t really a source.
And that’s just one example. I feel like this happens a lot with this case. Information gets repeated over and over until it almost becomes accepted as fact, even when there’s little or nothing backing it up.

Another thing I hear all the time is, “I just can’t imagine a mother/father doing that,” or “I can’t imagine a family covering something like that up.”
I mean, I can’t imagine someone murdering a six year old child either. But this isn’t really about what any of us can or can’t imagine. It’s about looking at the evidence and trying to understand what it does (or doesn’t) support.
I don’t care if someone believes it was an intruder, Burke, Patsy, John, or something else entirely. I just wish more discussions separated documented facts from interpretations and speculation. I think it makes for a much more interesting conversation.

That being said, if someone has good recommendations for podcasts about this case, i’d love to hear them.

I read the lady who helped them around the house passed not too long ago. The list of potential witnesses is thinning out quickly and it feels like JBR isn't gonna get justice like we all hoped for

I am so deeply conflicted about it,she was thrown like a sacrificial lamb into that whole situation. Her calling for a backup for over a 30 minutes with dead child in front of her is absolutely insane
There is a theory it was done on purpose, sending one woman officer to deal with such a complex situation,DA was on JR side since “accident” became public and for the next decade, obstructing police investigation, prohibiting interviews with JR & PR.
Leaking all the evidence and information including police officers personal notes and communications while they were in BR house months later to go step by step through all possible scenarios (JR & DA had bugs all over the house and they’ve heard every single word detectives say)
I’m so furious I can’t even

Why was he divorced? What do we know about his past relationship?

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I think I may have noticed a possible inconsistency in John Ramsey's statements about the basement window.

In his recent interview with Chris McDonough on The Interview Room (YouTube), John says he believed the broken basement window had been fixed... or something like that. I don't have the time now to watch it again but I think it was the 3rd interview.

However, in his interview with Dr. Phil about 10 years earlier, John said he wasn't surprised the window glass was broken because he had broken it months earlier after locking himself out of the house. He said what surprised him was that the window itself was open.

If John knew he had broken the window and specifically remembered breaking it to get into the house, why would he later say he thought the window had been repaired?

If anyone happens to see both of these two interviews, it seems like a contradiction.

I’ve heard the DA isn’t prosecuting the grand juries indictment with lack of evidence. I think the note itself gives beyond a doubt the Ramseys were involved.

1. What kidnapper writes a 3 page ransom note inside the house with the Ramseys own writing tools, while committing such a crime & the practice note is odd. No kidnapper stays in a home that active for that long especially if they’re holding the girl ransom. She would be moved into the ‘factions custody’

2. Why would the kidnapper and writer of the ransom note want John to get a good sleep?? Give so much detail about their own personal motive? Quote movies ?

3. The 118k is very unusual and probably not something a IDI would know and also, this is a beauty pageant star on Christmas Day, not even 500k? 1mil? The Ramseys are very wealthy any foreign faction with information on them is asking for 1-10mil if not more it’s their ducking daughter

4.Pasty can’t be seriously ruled out of writing analysis

5. Inconsistencies in the Ramseys own handling/reading of the note. They ignored all warning signs that instructed them how to return their daughter safely. If someone’s going to behead ur daughter and say do not call police or anyone. Yet they invited like the entire neighbourhood over WTF like why are friends allowed in the house.

6. Nobody called during the time of payment or anything to notify them of their daughters death nor did investigators think the Ramseys were waiting and might’ve forgot

7. Body inside house. Kidnapping usually means removing or taking someone , why leave her behind at all? Even if they killed her why not ask for ransom for her body for burial if the motive is money?

Sorry but this alone is enough for me. On top of other overwhelming evidence outside of just this piece.

John Ramsey was always at work, and Patsy was the homemaker. By most accounts, the house was cluttered and messy, with things not exactly in perfect order. The basement had stuff everywhere.

So when John says he went to the basement and immediately noticed the suitcase by the window “didn’t belong there,” I have a hard time with that. He strongly statea it doesn't belong. Hmmmm.

How would he know that so confidently if the house was cluttered everywhere and things were often out of place? Why would that suitcase stand out to him so strongly?

I’ve been teetering between JDI and PDI for years, but recently I’ve found myself leaning more heavily toward John.

For those who firmly believe JDI, I have a question regarding the mechanics of the crime scene vs. the alleged history of abuse..

If John had been sexually abusing JonBenét prior to that evening, what do you think made that specific night different? What would trigger him to suddenly escalate to a fatal head strike, compared to all the other times he presumably abused her and returned her to bed?

I'd love to hear your theories on what shifted or went wrong that night.

Veterans members and criminal Internet expert investigators help me here.

The Ramsey’s stage a ransom note spend 30 mins to write it but don’t simply stage a door left often?

Patsy is involved in the killing of Jonbonet in some capacity but doesn’t shower?

It feels odd that they goto extreme lengths to protect themselves in one area but then leave gaping holes in this concocted story

If both John and patsy were involved, why not take he body out of the house that night together?

The timeline is probably the thing I've gone back and forth on the most because there's such a massive gap of time that it's hard to even build a sequence of events in the first place. You kind of have to make assumptions no matter what theory you believe. If I had to pick the version that makes the most sense to me, though, I'd say I think the initial incident, or at least the head blow, happened relatively soon after they got home from the Whites.

The first thing is Patsy wearing the same clothes/makeup the next morning. Now, before anyone says it, yes, this could be completely insignificant. It could totally be that since they had an early flight, she only slept for a few hours and threw the same clothes back on. I'm not claiming the clothes prove anything. But I also think it's fair to say that if the incident happened soon after they got home, it would make perfect sense that she simply never got around to changing. it doesn't prove the timeline, but it definitely fits it.

My theory is that everything started with some kind of incident between the siblings. If that's the case, I honestly think people underestimate the context of that evening. The usual narrative is that they got home, Jonbenét was already asleep, everyone went to bed, and then something happened hours later. But let's actually think about the situation they were in. These were two young children from a wealthy family who had just spent the morning opening what was probably a ridiculous number of presents. Then, instead of spending the evening playing with all their new toys, they were at the Whites house for most of the night. On top of that, they were leaving again first thing the next morning for another trip. If I put myself in the shoes of a six or nine year old, I honestly don't find it difficult at all to imagine that one or both of them wanted to keep playing once they got home.

Now obviously this next part is just based on my own experience, so take it for what it's worth. But when I was a kid, Christmas was basically the peak of overstimulation. I didn't want to go to bed. I'd stay up playing with my new toys, and then I'd wake up ridiculously early the next morning just to keep playing. Ofc this is anecdotal, but I also don't think it's exactly an uncommon experience. That's why I've never really had a hard time imagining that Jonbenét either wasn't actually asleep when they got home, or woke up shortly after being carried inside.

At the same time, I can easily picture Patsy upstairs grabbing last minute things, checking bags, making sure they hadn't forgotten anything, etc.

Both John and Burke have said that they spent some time downstairs after they got home, putting together one of Burke's new toys. Ironically, it's one of the few details about that night that seems relatively consistent, despite how many other parts of the timeline have changed over the years. lol.

If that's true, why couldn't Jonbenét have been wandering around too? I mean, we know she HAD to be awake since she ate pineapple at some point before her death.

There's one more thing I've always found interesting, although I fully admit this could be absolutely nothing. It's how the ransom note says “I will call you between 8 and 10 a.m. tomorrow."

If the note was written to be found on the morning of the 26th, then "tomorrow" would technically be the 27th. Yet the note clearly expects John to read it on the 26th and wait for the call that same morning. To me, that almost feels like the writer was still mentally on Christmas Day while writing it. Whether that's because it was actually still the 25th, or because it was after midnight and they simply hadn't "registered" that it was technically the 26th yet, I obviously can't say. I know I've done that myself plenty of times.

The reason It sticks out to me is because it feels like a tiny glimpse into the writer's mindset. Almost as if they were writing from the perspective of someone thinking, "John will read this tomorrow," rather than someone writing a note that was always meant to be discovered today. Hope this makes sense.

As always, this ended up being kinda long. I'd love to hear y'all's thoughts.

Which of jonbenets family members was responsible for her ongoing sexual abuse?

Does that mean they were involved in the murder? Does the one who did the murder know about the SA? Hence the attempts to cover it up.

Do we feel she was SAd that night prior to or during her murder?

And how many family members are involved - just John, or just one parent and one brother, or all of them?

What are the latest top theories, for RDI (not interested in hearing any IDI on this post - if you are an IDI theorist, please just skip this post, I will delete IDI comments. I'm not interested in arguing.)

Anyways lmk what the latest strongest theories you have for both the SA prior to her death / chronic SA & who is involved the night of her murder.

Thanks.

That we've all known this whole time, but maybe slightly glossed over due to the exorbitant amount of information in this case.

For those of you that have kids... you find a ransom note your child has been kidnapped. Is there a room in your house you just "wouldn't check" in 3.2 seconds in this situation. There's no "around the corner out of the way" basement room that wouldnt have been searched within minutes for me. If the room was locked when I came across it, I'd be even more focused on getting into it, and wouldn't need to go back upstairs and wait until someone else suggests that maybe I go look for my kid again.

John just assumed she was gone, because uh..... the note said she was, so... John one of the most logical spoken high IQ type of people... just, didn't even bother checking the house after reading a ransom note.

John..... AND Patsy... just.... DIDN'T check the now locked wine cellar.

The second time Fleet and John go looking, they return within 5 minutes with Jon Benet.

Ain't. No. Way.

This isn't an implication of m*rder, but one of knowledge.

A majority of this video is Matt Orchard's explanation for why John writing the note makes the most sense, but it gives the exact context needed for my theory on what's going on during the 911 call, including why Patsy is saying "What did you do?" to HERSELF

What piece of evidence sticks out so hard that you simply can’t look past it in favor of RDI/PDI? Genuinely curious, new to this subreddit

The older John gets the worse and worse it looks for him and patsey. On Fox News he says “the garrot WE used to strangle our daughter “ He is getting too old to keep a story straight. The evidence of SA before the murder . To me it could be as simple as was SA/ing her that night after they had pineapple and maybe threatened to speak up and he killed her? I think the evidence of SA is pretty compelling more than the dna evidence of a foreign insider. Idk.