I was arguing with ChatGPT about whether 12×3 (12 sets of 3 reps) could be better for muscle growth than 3×12.

My reasoning:
Both are 36 total reps.
With 12×3, I can use much heavier weight.
Since each set is only 3 reps, the individual reps should be higher quality because I’m less fatigued within the set.
If I take every set to failure, 12×3 gives me 12 failure sets, whereas 3×12 only gives me 3.
More hard/quality reps + heavier weight + more sets taken to failure = potentially more hypertrophy.

ChatGPT initially said 3×12 was obviously better for size.
Then I clarified that I’m talking about 12×3 with every set taken to actual failure, not just stopping at 3 reps with 2–3 reps in reserve.
Now ChatGPT admits 12×3 could produce more hypertrophy, but says it can’t honestly claim that it will because more work doesn’t necessarily mean proportionally more growth, and muscle damage isn’t itself the goal.

So who’s actually right here?

Assume:
Same exercise
Same 36 total reps
12×3 = genuinely 3 reps to failure every set
3×12 = genuinely 12 reps to failure every set
Ignore time efficiency and convenience completely
Which protocol would you expect to produce more muscle growth, and why?
I’m genuinely curious whether my logic is sound or if I’m missing something fundamental about hypertrophy.

Now off course 12x3 is a little bit insane i’m aware of that but what if…

Im trying to get back in the gym. I found some PPL routines and made my own and modified it a tad. Could someone please let me know if I should switch anything around. I'm mainly focused on buidling muscle and increasing my strength.

As follows:

PUSH

Barbell Bench Press
Sets: 3
Reps: 5–8

Incline DB Press
Sets: 3
Reps: 8–12

Machine Shoulder Press - or Pec Dec (help me chose)
Sets: 3
Reps: 8–12

Cable Lateral Raise
Sets: 3
Reps: 12–20

Cable Triceps Pushdown
Sets: 3
Reps: 8–12

Overhead Cable Extension
Sets: 3
Reps: 10–15

PULL

Lat Pulldown/Pull-Ups
Sets: 3
Reps: 10–12

Chest-Supported Row
Sets: 3
Reps: 6–10

Seated Cable Row
Sets: 3
Reps: 8–12

Straight-Arm Pulldown
Sets: 3
Reps: 10–15

Reverse Pec Deck
Sets: 3
Reps: 12–20

EZ-Bar Curl
Sets: 3
Reps: 8–12

Hammer Curl
Sets: 3
Reps: 10–15

LEGS (Still working on it)

Back Squat
Sets: 3
Reps: 5–8

Romanian Deadlift
Sets: 3
Reps: 6–10

Leg Press
Sets: 3
Reps: 8–12

Seated Leg Curl
Sets: 3
Reps: 10–15

Leg Extension
Sets: 3
Reps: 10–15

Calf Raise
Sets: 4
Reps: 10–15

Cable Crunch
Sets: 3
Reps: 10–15

Goals are hyper trophy, strength, and lowering BF%, focusing on compound lifts. Is this overboard? I don’t mind spending 90 minutes at the gym. I’ve been going to the gym for a couple years and want to start locking in and taking it seriously. Any tips are greatly appreciated, let me know what you would change. Aiming for a MWF setup. Will be doing some ab work and cardio after each workout. My idea was do 2 exercises per muscle group per workout. Thanks everyone 🫡

Day 1

1. Squats 5x3-6
2. Bench 5x3-6
3. T Bar Row 3x8-12
4. DB Overhead Press 3x8-12
5. Calf raises 3x8-12
6. Overhead Tricep Extension 3x8-12
7. Pull ups 3 sets till failure
8. Lat raise machine 3x8-12

Day 2

1. Deadlift 5x3-6
2. Overhead press 5x6-8
3. Leg Extension 3x8-12
4. Incline Dumbbell press 3x8-12
5. Lat Pulldowns3x8-12
6. Shoulder press machine 3x8-12
7. Hip thrust 3x8-12
8. Cable fly 3x8-12
9. Walking lunges 3 sets 10 steps per foot

Day 3

1. Bench 5x5
2. Hack squat 3x8-12
3. Chest supported row machine 3x8-12
4. DB overhead press 3x8-12
5. Leg Curls 3x8-12
6. Preacher curls 3x8-12
7. Dips 3x8-12, last set till failure
8. Pull ups, 3 sets till failure
9. Lat raise machine 3x8-12
10. Calf raises 3x8-12

I’ve been working on a PPL routine and wanted to get some feedback on the overall structure, volume, exercise selection, and whether there are any obvious gaps.

The main idea is that I can reliably train at least 3 days per week, but some weeks I can get in 4–5 sessions. Instead of resetting the routine every Monday, I just continue rotating through the workouts in order.

If I only train 3 days:

Week 1: Push A / Pull A / Legs A

Week 2: Push B / Pull B / Legs B

If I train 4–5 days, I simply continue through the rotation:

Push A → Pull A → Legs A → Push B → Pull B → Legs B → repeat

The goal is primarily hypertrophy/aesthetics with some strength progression on the bigger compounds. I also wanted enough exercise variation to hit muscles slightly differently without constantly changing the basic movement patterns.

Would love feedback on whether the volume/frequency makes sense, anything you would remove/add, or whether you think the A/B variations are unnecessary.

Also sharing it in case anyone else has a schedule where they can train anywhere from 3–5 days depending on the week.

\---

PUSH A

Barbell Bench Press — 4 x 5–8

Incline Dumbbell Press — 3 x 8–12

Seated Dumbbell Shoulder Press — 3 x 8–10

Cable Lateral Raise — 4 x 12–20

Cable Chest Fly — 2 x 12–15

Rope Triceps Pushdown — 3 x 10–15

Overhead Cable Triceps Extension — 2 x 12–15

\---

PULL A

Weighted Pull-Ups — 4 x 6–10

Chest-Supported Row — 4 x 8–12

Single-Arm Cable Lat Pulldown — 3 x 10–15

Reverse Pec Deck — 3 x 12–20

Incline Dumbbell Curl — 3 x 8–12

Cable Curl — 2 x 12–15

Face Pull — 2 x 15–20

\---

LEGS A

Barbell Squat — 4 x 5–8

Dumbbell Romanian Deadlift — 4 x 8–10

Seated Leg Curl — 3 x 10–15

Leg Extension — 3 x 12–15

Standing Calf Raise — 4 x 8–12

\---

B ROTATION

Rather than randomly swapping exercises, the B workouts use similar movement patterns with different variations.

\---

PUSH B

Incline Barbell Bench Press — 4 x 5–8

Machine Chest Press — 3 x 8–12

Machine Shoulder Press — 3 x 8–10

Dumbbell Lateral Raise — 4 x 12–20

Pec Deck — 2 x 12–15

EZ-Bar Skull Crusher — 3 x 8–12

Single-Arm Cable Triceps Extension — 2 x 12–15

\---

PULL B

Neutral-Grip Pulldown — 4 x 8–10

T-Bar Row — 4 x 8–12

Straight-Arm Pulldown — 3 x 12–15

Cable Rear-Delt Fly — 3 x 12–20

Preacher Curl — 3 x 8–12

Hammer Curl — 3 x 10–12

Shrugs — 2 x 12–15

\---

LEGS B

Machine Hack Squat — 4 x 8–10

Dumbbell Romanian Deadlift — 4 x 8–12

Lying Leg Curl — 3 x 10–15

Leg Press — 3 x 10–15

Seated Calf Raise — 4 x 12–15

\---

PROGRESSION

I generally use double progression within the listed rep ranges. Once I can hit the top of the range with good form across my sets, I increase the weight and build the reps back up.

Interested in thoughts on:

• Overall volume

• Whether anything is getting too much or too little work

• Exercise selection

• A/B exercise variation

• Whether this setup works well when training frequency varies between 3–5 days per week

So I am intermediate-beginner, because I have gym experience but I never committed much due to things that happened in my personal life.

I'm 28 years old, 1.89 m tall and weigh 102 kg.

I used to workout 3 days a week, full body. Now I am attempting a full body workout 5 times a week. This is how it is structured

Workout A

Squat — 5×5

Overhead press — 5×5

Bench press — 5×5

Pull-ups — 5×5

Stepper — 10 min

Workout B

Bent-over row — 5×5

Deadlift — 5×5

Biceps curls — 3×10

Triceps extensions — 3×10

Bar hang — 3×10 sec

I also load more weight as I progress. So if I know that I can deadlift 5 reps of 60kg, I would first warm up with the barbell, of course, then start my first set with 30/40 kg and add 5 kgs/10kgs next set.

Then I alternate A/B/A/B… regardless of which weekday it lands on.

On Saturday I do 1 hour of swimming.

On Sunday rest.

I also sleep 8 hours a day, from 10:30 PM till 6:30 AM

I guess my routine is a mess, but currently it works for me?

Is this a good full body routine? I plan on going to the gym 2-3 times a week due to a lack of transportation and time. My main issues are time and the order of my exercises, I used to have biceps and triceps towards the end of my routine, but noticed they would became weak. Also, how do I decide rest time?

• Leg Press | 1 × 8–12
• Pec Deck | 1 × 8–12
• Preacher Curl | 1 × 8–12
• Tricep Extension | 1 × 8–12
• Wide-Grip Row | 1 × 8–12
• Lat Pulldown | 1 × 8–12
• Shoulder Press | 1 × 8–12
• Seated Leg Curl | 1 × 8–12
• Leg Extension | 1 × 8–12
• Cable Lateral Raise | 1 × 10–15
• Hammer Curl | 1 × 8–12
• Abductor/Adductor (Alternate) | 1 × 10–15
• Calves/Abs (Alternate) | 1 × 10–15

I've been thinking about going to a 3x frequency split with no rest days. Could someone please give me an example of how I would be able to structure this split?

I’m trying to get back into the gym and I can reliably go 3 days a week. (Monday Wednesday and Friday). I used to work out a few years ago, so I sorta get the basics but I never went too hard. I was thinking of doing a split (chest shoulders tri on Monday, back and bi on Wednesday and legs and core in Fridays) Someone told me that being a beginner and going 3 days, I may benefit from do a full body a/b workout. This is what I came up with. Is this pretty solid to start with? I’m not trying to get absolutely shredded. Just want to get into better shape and live a healthier lifestyle.

Monday - Full Body A
• Bench Press — 3×8-10
• Lat Pulldown — 3×8-12
• Leg Press — 3×8-12
• Shoulder Press — 2x8-12
• Dumbbell Curls — 2×10-15
• Overhead Tricep Extension — 2×10-15
• Plank - 2×45-60 sec

Wednesday - Full Body B
• Incline Dumbbell Press — 3x8-12
• Seated Cable Row — 3×8-12
• Romanian Deadlift — 3×8-12
• Lateral Raises — 3×12-15
• Hammer Curls — 2×10-15
• Leg Curl — 2×10-15
• Lying Leg Raises — 2×10-15

Friday — Full Body A again
• Bench Press — 3×8-10
• Lat Pulldown — 3×8-12
• Leg Press — 3×8-12
• Shoulder Press — 2x8-12
• Dumbbell Curls — 2×10-15
• Overhead Tricep Extension — 2×10-15
• Plank - 2×45-60 sec

Ist das zu viel

Also halt brust shultern trizeps rücken biceps
4mal die woche

Oder sollte iche 3 mal die woche
Und einmal pro woche unterkörper

Weil ich möchte am meisten meine brust verbessern *wegen einem privaten Grund.Bin auch grad am Trainingsplan machen*

Danke im voraus.

is my pushday alright? i do pushday 2 a week btw.

• 2 × Overhead Press (Dumbbell)
• 2 × Bench Press (Barbell)
• 2 × Incline Bench Press (Dumbbell)
• 2 × Chest Fly (Band)
• 2 × Overhead Press (Cable)
• 2 × Triceps Extension (Cable)
• 2 × Lateral Raise (Dumbbell)
• 2 × Rear Delt Cable Raises

i would appreciate it if you have any recommendations!:)

Hey, I'm trying to figure out whether I'm doing too much, too little, or about the right amount of volume for an Upper/Lower split.

I've been training for around 6 months and my main goal is hypertrophy. I'm especially interested in building a really aesthetic physique, with my priorities being:

1. Arms biceps, triceps and forearms are my biggest priority
2. Shoulders especially side delts for width
3. Back both lat width and overall thickness
4. Chest
5. Abs
6. Legs are still important and I want them to grow, just not as much of a priority as my upper body

I'm around 70 kg at 175 cm.

My main issue is figuring out how many hard sets I should actually be doing per session.

My old program had around 30+ sets on Upper A and I honestly recovered pretty well from it. I also didn't really feel particularly fatigued after the workouts. However, I realize that doesn't necessarily mean every set was productive, especially because I probably rested for quite a while between sets and wasn't always training super close to failure.

I'm now planning on taking my working sets more seriously, mostly around 1–2 RIR on compounds and 0–1 RIR on some isolations.

I'm wondering whether something like 2–3 sets per exercise is enough when the sets are actually hard, or whether I should be closer to the volume I was doing previously.

I don't really want to blindly follow a specific "sets per muscle per week" number. I'm more interested in how I should actually determine the right volume for myself, especially when training each muscle twice per week.

My current split:

Upper A

• Bench Press: 4 sets × 5–8 reps
• Cable Wide-Grip Lat Pulldown: 3 × 6–10
• Dumbbell Bent-Over Single-Arm Row: 3 × 8–12
• Seated Shoulder Press: 3 × 6–10
• Cable Standing Face Pull (rope): 3 × 12–20
• Lateral Raise: 3 × 12–15
• Dumbbell Incline Curl: 3 × 8–12
• Cable Curl: 3 × 8–12
• Triceps Pushdown: 3 × 10–15
• Cable Seated Chest Fly: 3 × 12–15

Lower A

• Romanian Deadlift: 4 × 6–10
• Sled 45° Leg Wide Press: 3 × 8–12
• Lever Lying Leg Curl: 3 × 10–15
• Lever Leg Extension: 3 × 10–15
• Lever Seated Calf Raise: 3 × 10–15
• Cable Kneeling Crunch: 3 × 12–15
• Lever Total Abdominal Crunch: 3 × 12–15

Upper B

• Dumbbell Incline Bench Press: 4 × 6–10
• Bench Press: 3 × 6–10
• Lever Chest Press: 3 × 8–12
• Cable Lat Pulldown with V-Bar: 3 × 6–10
• Cable Seated Row with V-Bar: 3 × 8–12
• Lever Seated Reverse Fly: 3 × 12–15
• Lateral Raise: 3 × 12–15
• Hammer Curl: 3 × 8–12
• EZ-Barbell Preacher Curl: 3 × 8–12
• Overhead Triceps Extension

Lower B

• Full Squat: 4 sets
• Sled 45° Leg Wide Press: 3 sets
• Lever Leg Extension: 3 sets
• Lever Lying Leg Curl: 3 sets
• Lever Seated Hip Abduction: 3 sets
• Lever Seated Calf Raise: 3 sets
• Lever Total Abdominal Crunch: 3 sets
• Cable Kneeling Crunch: 3 sets

I also want to eventually get good at dips, so I'm keeping them even though I'm not very strong at them yet.

For arms, I know I'm probably missing some direct biceps work right now (as in deciding what I want for them). I like incline curls and cable curls, I'm okay with Bayesian curls, and I like hammer curls. I hate preacher curls mostly because the EZ-bar setup at my gym feels awkward and doesn't let me get a comfortable stretch, but it might just be me, as I can do like 15 kg for 12 reps but 20 kg feels really weird and I don't feel like putting my arms all the way down.

For triceps I like V-bar pushdowns and overhead cable extensions. Kinda slacking in terms of triceps though, I feel like I don't try on them as much.

For forearms as of recently I plan on adding them to my routine but I'm doing single-arm wrist curls and reverse wrist extensions.

I also don't like face pulls or cable flies, so I'm not interested in forcing exercises I don't enjoy if there's a good alternative.

What I'm really trying to understand:

• How many hard sets per workout is reasonable on an Upper/Lower split?
• Is 2–3 sets per exercise generally enough if they're genuinely hard?
• Should I be thinking more about weekly sets per muscle instead of sets per workout?
• How much does exercise overlap matter when counting volume? For example, bench + incline + dips all involve triceps.
• How do I know when I've found my minimum effective volume vs maximum recoverable volume?
• If I recover well from 25–30 sets but my last several sets aren't progressing, is that a sign that some of the volume is junk?
• Would something around 20–22 working sets per Upper session be a reasonable place to start for someone like me?
• How should I adjust volume based on actual progression over 6–8 weeks?

I'm not looking for someone to write me a completely new routine. I'm mainly trying to understand the volume/programming side so I can make better decisions about my own routine. Moral of the story, I just feel like I might be doing too much, but not at the same time. Seeing people do 2 sets just feels odd to me, and I feel like my arms really growing as much but I guess it just might be a matter of time. My triceps feel like they're slacking as well.

Would appreciate opinions from people who have actually experimented with different volumes, especially natural lifters.

So for context, i have been training again for about 2.5 months, 6 years earlier i did strength training 2x a week for 3 years. And i have been stalling on my chest and incline press for about 3bweeks now, not getting another rep or barely getting another rep. I did 2 sets of flat and incline press but reduced incline by 1 set. So its now 2 sets and 1 set 2 to 3x a week. I do it first on my upper days and all my other excercises are progressing good. What can i do? Its only chest where my progress stops

If i do upper lower 6x a week should i do 1 set per excercise , or still 2, because i think it might be too much volume for some muscle groups, especially if i go to failure

Thanks in advance

Ist das zu viel

Also halt brust shultern trizeps rücken biceps
4mal die woche

Oder sollte iche 3 mal die woche
Und einmal pro woche unterkörper

Weil ich möchte am meisten meine brust verbessern *wegen einem privaten Grund.Bin auch grad am Trainingsplan machen*

Danke im voraus.

Was hoping to get some feedback on my routine. I run 1-2 miles a day, plus at minimum, 20 minutes of lifting, but often it’s closer to 45 minutes.

I don’t have a set routine and try to hit full body daily. I have noticed that the amount of sets I do per exercise is sometimes low, but I think it’s ok since I lift daily and my overall volume is high enough (I think). Additionally, I may only do a single set of an exercise, but I’ll do multiple sets of another exercise that hits the same muscle group (e.g., 3 sets of pushups, 1 set of chest press). I’m a mid 30s woman if it matters. Below is what I logged the past week:

**Monday (stormed so I couldn’t go to the gym; quick home workout):**
1 mile run
Goblet squats: 3 sets of 9
Lateral raises: 1 set of 11
RDL: 1 set of 11

**Tuesday:**
1.5 mile run
Assisted pull-ups: 2 sets of 10
Plank: 1 minute
Pushups: 3 sets of 7
Chest press: 2 sets of 12
Seated cable row: 3 sets of 10
Goblet squat: 3 sets of 8
Back extension: 2 sets of 9
Wrist curls: 1 set of 21
One arm tricep extension: 1 set of 13
Tricep push down: 1 set of 10
Lateral raise: 1 set of 10

**Wednesday:**
1 mile run
Inner thigh machine: 2 sets of 10
Outer thigh machine: 3 sets of 10
Tricep push down: 2 sets of 13
Leg extension: 3 sets of 13
Wrist curls: 2 sets of 21
Reverse wrist curls: 1 set of 13
Hack squats: 3 sets of 13
Assisted pull-ups: 1 set of 7
Inverted rows: 2 sets of 9
Rear delt row: 1 set of 10
Back extension: 1 set of 10
Chest press: 1 set of 10

**Thursday:**
2 mile run
Assisted pull-ups: 2 sets of 10
Plank: 2 x 1 minute
Pushups: 3 sets of 7
RDL: 1 set of 13
Back extension: 3 sets of 10
Seated leg curl: 1 set of 12
Goblet squat: 1 set of 7
Chest press: 2 set of 12
Reverse flys: 3 sets of 8
Inverted rows: 1 set of 10
Seated cable rows: 3 sets of 8
Tricep push down: 1 set of 12
Lateral raise: 1 set of 12
Assisted dip: 1 set of 12
Reverse wrist curl: 1 set of 12

**Friday:**
1 mile run
Leg extensions: 3 sets of 10
Tricep push down: 2 sets of 13
Wrist curl: 1 set of 25
Wall sit: 1 x 2 min
Outer thigh machine; 4 sets of 10
Inner thigh machine: 2 sets of 15
Assisted pull-ups: 3 sets of 10
Back extensions: 2 sets of 12
Chest press: 2 sets of 12
Seated cable row: 1 set of 7
Wide grip bicep curl: 1 set of 8
Reverse flys: 2 sets of 10
Inverted rows: 1 set of 10

**Saturday:**
2 mile run
Goblet squats: 3 sets of 8
Pushups: 3 sets of 6
Assisted pull-ups: 3 sets of 12
RDL: 1 set of 11
Plank: 2 x 1 minute
Lateral raise: 2 sets of 10
Reverse fly: 3 sets of 9
Seated leg curl: 2 sets of 11
Assisted dip: 1 set of 12
Seated cable row: 2 sets of 9

**Sunday:**
2 mile run
Goblet squats: 2 sets of 8
Pushups: 3 sets of 6
Assisted pull-ups: 2 sets of 12
Inverted rows: 3 sets of 9
Lateral raise: 1 set of 13
Seated leg curl: 3 sets of 11
Crunches: 1 set of 8
Reverse fly: 2 sets of 12
Chest press: 1 set of 3 (heavy)

Am I hitting these muscle groups enough? I feel like I spend A LOT of time in the gym so I hope so!

So I've been running the coolcicada ppl program for about 4 months. I've been looking around for a new workout to switch things up. I've considered Jeff Nippard's Bodybuilding Transformation System, or his ultimate ppl, as well as GZCL General Gainz, or the RP Hypertrophy 4.1 workout i found on liftosaur. The more science based workouts seem to only do like 2 sets of 2 exercises per body part and going from doing the 5 sets of 5 then 3 sets of 8 to 12 for the bigger lifts i wonder if I'll still make gains losing some volume.

Also I cut from 240 and out of the gym for 2 years down to 180 at 6ft tall. Ive bulked back up to about 188 without gaining any new body fat. But im planning to ramp up my bulk soon. Not sure if that info is helpful

I’m currently thinking of changing to a 4 day Upper/Lower split:

Upper A (Chest + back + shoulders + arms)
Lower A (Quads + hamstrings + glutes + calves + core)
Rest
Upper B
Lower B

Is this a good enough split for recomp, or would you recommend something else?

Curious what everyone here is doing.

When it comes to Mike Israetel’s guidance for MEV and MAV for each muscle group does that include compound exercises for secondary muscles in that volume? Example doing an incline bench press hits the chest and the front delts, is that volume considered in the front delt target?