u/MothraLovesLamps

(From a Selfish Avoidants POV)

I asked you for the truth

Then punished confession

You opened up your heart

I turned it to a lesson

You said my words stung

I told you they were true

I cared about my ego

Not what they did to you

want me, verbal vixen

on your knees,

give me more

of what I need

See me

WORSHIP!

Burn

Give me every word and phrase

semantics syntax, YEARN!

letter out my praise

I could've drawn the line

Without cutting you apart

I could've said goodbye

Without aiming for your heart

I chose armor,

as you bled

You chose Love,

I chose me instead

You wanted me,

I wanted you

But Just in parts,

not in truth

I kept you in the dark

You the lantern,

I the spark

you whispered your affection

displacing misconception

that i am not enough

I felt loved,

I felt touched

beautifully brushed

want me, verbal vixen

on your knees,

give me more

of what I need

See me

WORSHIP!

Burn

Give me every word and phrase

semantics syntax, YEARN!

letter out my praise

your vernacular enthralls me

Your song intoxicating

you the meal

I the mouth

know your place

don't get out

but you did

you disobeyed

I called you FRIEND

on this your heart

could not amend

So I made cruelty the stroke

that severed, and broke

I wanted your attention

your gaze, your lips, and fire

that and nothing more

I fed, filled, retired

your hunger was not mine to feed

and when you begged

my sword unsheathed!

I struck you down

and down you stayed

no blessings

no tidings

over you I did not pray

I hope you rest forever

in this sealed up abyss

I'll think of you whenever

Your words

break through

the mist

I like it. And then i dont :(

I think it is nice to have someone who actively cares for you and roots for you want you, and wants to see you succeed.

I think i could use some support like that right now.

And I would also like to root for someone. Im a natural hype girl.

I just stay busy but sometimes it does get lonely.

It just feels like some part of me, a part of me that I can only access when I love someone romantically...

I missing.

Gone.

There's this dull ache in my chest.

And it doesn't go away.

I just live with it but I miss how happy having someone made me.

If you're single, how is it going for you?

I will be doing a Q and A on Discord (Via a live chat) discussing this very IMPORTANT topic.

I'm not a mental health professional so I can't speak to this from a place of that of authority,

But I do have a bachelor's in ELA and I do know etymology.

The name itself...AVOIDANT inherently suggest (Anti--social) which is what ASPD is.

Also, what happens oftentimes is people come into the healing community for help with their "Avoidant."

When really the persons avoidance is coming from NPD, BPD, ASPD.

And that's why I created "The Manipulative" Avoidant. A distinction had to be made.

I see it as:

Child A had a stroke in the womb. As a result, they lost 1/4 brain capacity. The child cannot speak and he displays behaviors similar to a child with autism.

Child B did not suffer a brain injury, and they are diagnosed with autism.

They both behave like children on the spectrum, but for fundamentally different reasons.

And when it comes to Avoidants...

We have MULTIPLE reasons why someone has AVOIDANT TRAITS.

The overlapping conditions:

A. ADHD/ADD

B. OCD

C. AU

D. ASPD

E. BPD

F. NPD

C. Anxiety disorders

D. CPTSD/PTSD

E. Bi Polar

I am an FA. I have: ADHD, OCD, and I suspect BPD based on the DSM5 diagnostic.

And that was the progression.

As a teenager: diagnosed ADHD

Adult: (30) OCD

I also believe one would be extremely hard pressed to find an avoidant who does not have at least one of the listed overlapping conditions.

But yes, some "Avoidants" are Avoidant as a result of cluster B personalities and ASPD.

To me, those are not "avoidants".

They have a condition that mirrors and looks like avoidance.

Like child A. That child is primarily a stroke survivor with brain loss but behaves similar to a child on the spectrum.

You can say the child is autistic, and they are by appearances, but that child is primarily a stroke survivor with AU traits.

They are not by definition, autistic. They simply lost the part of their brain responsible for language development.

(That is what I would consider people with personality disorders who have avoidant avoidant traits).

And that is why I created "The Manipulative Avoidant."

To help people see the distinction.

The TMA is identified by anti social behavior, low empathy, etc.

And YES. You're vulnerable narcissists, goes here.

And you have the "Avoidants" AKA the "Scared Avoidants." They avoid because of attachment trauma and an insecure attachment style.

I am so glad you stated this.

The other subreddit mod would never let post anything trying to find distinctions.

Anything related to NPD was dismissed.

And that is a huge disservice to the community because people are MISS IDENTIFYING PERSONALITY DISORDERS as AVOIDANTS.

There are people on here with personality disorders like NPD saying "Im an avoidant."

No you aren't. You are a narcissists with avoidant traits.

It's bad because they are "educating" people based on their NPD.

So they say inaccuracies like:

ALL AVOIDANTS DONT CARE etc.

WRONG. FALSE! BE SILENCED BY A TRUTH STAPPLER.

YOU don't care because you a narcissists.

I care because I am not.

However, I might have BPD...

I have a very difficult time differentiating BPD from an FA attachment style.

But, to conclude,

There are AVOIDANTS who are avoidant bc of attachment trauma and an insecure attachment style,

And then there are PEOPLE with AVOIDANT TRAITS.

Avoidant Vs. Someone with avoidant traits.

I know i use generalized diction, but I do not represent all FAs. There is nuance.

EDIT* please do contribute to the discussion by sharing what overlapping conditions your avoidant had.

The worst one for me was,

"I'm not willing to give up my emotional harem of past and present crushes "posing as friends" for you."

Literally told me,

"It's not that I need them, but I can't live without them."

If I was happy with my partner and suddenly learned they are being arrested for drug trafficking and illegal dog fighting...I would suddenly lose interest.

A genuine loss of interest will have a clarifier or something that they can REASONABLY EXPLAIN as a reason for losing interest.

But if the reasons sound DUMB AF. Probably dysregulation.

Ex: IDK i just dont feel right

PREFACE: All avoidant types can breadcrumb, but some Manipulatives do it to maintain control and some Selfish Avoidants do it out of curiosity or boredom. There is a lot of nuance. Sometimes it is done in good faith, and sometimes it is not. (But I do believe this next breadcrumb comes from a place of ongoing care).

So far we have identified 2 breadcrumbs.

1). The Othello

https://www.reddit.com/r/DialAvoidantBreakups/comments/1vysx7i/the_most_baffling_avoidant_breadcrumb_confused_me/

2). And the "Knock Twice" breadcrumb.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DialAvoidantBreakups/comments/1w10jq8/know_the_different_breadcrumb_types/

And now for number 3:

THE SHOOTING STAR breadcrumb.

It sounds sweet right? It is in it's own way, but like a shooting star it's ephemeral. A little flicker of light reminding you that you still matter to them.

The shooting star differs from the "Knock Twice" in that it is intentional and is meant to express appreciation, fondness, warmth, and a residing sense of care. It is beautiful in a quiet, gentle way.

So imagine this, you go to a third world country to help provide care to you orphaned children. You are a physician donating your time and services for one week. You tend to the children but one little girl in particular was very ill, you correctly diagnosed her condition and with the proper care and treatment, she greatly improves.

You week is up and you are preparing to leave when the little girl chases after you, she has something in her hands.

"For you, for you!" she says, and hands you a tattered, weathered book.

She smiles at you and runs away. The offering may not appear to much. The book is old, the spine separating from the binding, and yet, the book is IMMENSELY precious because it was her favorite book.

The value is in the meaning, not the item or the act itself. The little expressed her gratitude with the capacity she was able to. She gave him her best. She could have written a note, or drawn a photo. No. She wanted him to have this.

Translation: "Have a piece of my heart. I can't give you more, but I give you all I have, I give you my best portion. If I had a library I would happily give it to you. But I don't. This is all I have."

The breadcrumb isn't enough. It's can never satisfy. That is why they are called crumbs. There is no sustaining nourishment.

This breadcrumb can have many forms, it doesn't have to be something that occurs online. Here are a few examples:

A). They maintain some shared accounts. An obvious one I see a lot is a spotify playlist indicates they are listening to love songs or music that implies missing you. That's intentional. It's expressing fondness.

B). They adopt parts of you into their life. They may start liking the music you did or dressing in a similar style. This is a way of trying to keep you. To preserve apart of you. It's comforting to them. It reminds them of you.

(The memory that pains you, comforts them. They appreciate the love. Even if they can't actively access it).

C). Liking your posts is another one, it says, "I still support you and wish you well. I still care."

D). It can also be that they haven't removed you from some shared accounts.

Avoidant's cherish these little things because their capacity is so limited. To them these things matter.

I once mocked avoidants who did this as being silly and stuck in a La La land where they get to be some tragically unrequited lover. I thought it was performative in a way. Or a type of surrogacy for actual love and intimacy.

And now I get it...

I didn't get it before meeting Jack.

Now I do.

I am a severe FA. I do not think I will ever be in a healthy relationship. And that does not sadden me. I am grateful for the experiences and the times I was loved. But my memories are all I have now, so I cherish them.

For example,

I converted my exes texts and final goodbyes into AI songs. I have like 5. I love them dearly. I listen to them daily. I still cherish those words. That is all the romantic love I have in my life. I have memories, and I savor them. It comforts me to remember I was once loved very much. (...and I'm crying...lol).

Time nor injury can't erase or take away what that man gave me when he gave it. I will forever appreciate what we had and I will keep like a golden bullet in my heart where nothing can tarnish it. I don't care that we parted. I don't care that we didn't work out. It does not detract or take away from the beauty and love that I once felt.

Some people will try to tell you your avoidant didn't love you. But that's not for them to decide. Only you know what truly transpired. And if my words resignate with you, then you understand.

And don't let anyone tell you it wasn't love because you were not together long enough. That's not how love works. Love is so very powerful. It has no limits, no boundaries.

Look at Jack and Rose from "Titanic." They knew each other a short time but you can't convince me it wasn't love between them. It was.

And yes, like Rose, I will always remember my "Jack" with fondness.

My heart will go on.

--Avoidant Support Animal

"The People's Mod"

I often reread my posts for clarification and to ensure my message communicates and expresses my point well...

I failed you at the very end of my "Knock Twice" breadcrumb post 🤦‍♀️: https://www.reddit.com/r/DialAvoidantBreakups/s/b8p4Qk33re

I had the avoidant guy say, "LOL no girl..."

ABSOLUTELY AWFUL CHOICE OF TONE AND DELIVERY.

I don't see the "Knock Twice" breadcrumb as a mocking thing. Its an expression of care.

I'm sorry. Y'all are out here trying to feel better and then I goof and give you the impression he's laughing?

Oof.

No. Not what I meant. Please disregard that.

(Unless they are The Manipulative Avoidant)

And as far as selfish avoidants go...they typically dont "breadcrumb." If they reach out, chances are they need or want something. Maybe attention. Maybe dopamine. Mine would call to vent.

Again, my apologies!

--Asa

I feel like there is no point in healing anymore when all you get is stronger for the next situation rather than learn to avoid it

My ex and I broke up because he fell out of love. He said he no longer saw a future with me and ended the relationship. He said this started as a sudden nagging feeling in the back of his head about us not being right for each other, but he couldn't place why.

This was very unexpected for me, as I was completely unaware he was feeling this way because he didn't communicate with me. I went along thinking we were going to have a sleep over while he was taking me on a walk to break up. There were not fights in our relationship, a disagreement or misunderstanding yes, but they were always communicated.

This emotional whiplash, lack of closure, and what feels like deception is killing me. I can see myself healing and moving forward, but I feel like this relationship made me lose my ability to want to put myself out there to experience human connection/relationships of any form.

He has depression and when we spoke about it he seemed aware how it affected his life and relationships. Depression can cause you to feel a lack of anything, but also a lack of love for your partner suddenly. We spoke about past relationships and he never brought up feeling this way before, so I believed I covered all my bases.

I was under the assumption he was working through his depression because I talked about my anxiety and anxious attachment style and how I was working through my negative thinking. I believed we were on the same page and I was having my first happy and healthy relationship, I genuinely believed that was what I was experiencing with him. 

I've gone through a lot with my anxious attachment style, as it really negatively affected me and my relationships and I was always stressed. I had finally felt ready to put myself out there and experience connections after a long break of focusing on myself, and I've had other relationships which had a natural end.

They were not as serious as this, but we did spend months talking and building. Those relationships had a natural end that left me sad that the person was gone, but happy I learned more about myself and what I want in a relationship. This relationship has left me spiraling and questioning myself. I just can't believe I got discarded again and I know I have the skills to cope, but I feel like I lost my spark for life. 

This is the first time I've felt so hopeless after a breakup and it sounds silly, but I feel like this breakup flipped something in me. I only have a drive to focus on myself, but the idea of meeting someone new kills me. Not because I want to be with him, but because I can't accept this is how life goes.

I didn't grow up seeing happy relationships and I honestly thought I was in a place where I would have the radar to detect something like this. I used to let myself get walked over and accept bad behavior, so I focused on making sure I can recognize toxic relationships and work on my confidence. 

It's been two months and I've spent that time sitting with the feeling, giving myself distractions, rebuilding my confidence, and spending time with friends. I know breakups aren't linear and I'm not supposed to be okay right away, but there is this different feeling which feels like the loss of motivation. I never want to deal with another person emotionally on this level again and I'm honestly disgusted and repulsed by the idea of dating someone and them having feelings.

The fact that there are other unhealed humans out there that are that blind to their mental health affecting others makes me sick. I don't know how to recover from being blind sided like this and how I'm supposed to have the drive and motivation to make human connections. Again I'm aware it's only been two months, but I feel like I lost a part of myself that kept me together.

This image of myself finally understanding and finding love is gone and I don't know how to get it back. I only want to love myself and focus on myself to keep me and my emotions safe.

We work next to each other and I try my best to avoid him. After the break up I spoke to him for 1-2 days then gave us space until the beginning of August when I asked to speak again. I planned after that talk to completely cut him off, but i spoke to him the other day at work after a miscommunication of him talking to a group of girls.

Honestly I did overreact about that, but while we spoke about it he said “I realized our futures are incompatible, you want to open a pet store and to have a bunch of dogs and i dont”. Him saying that sent me down a spiral because yes if he felt that way I would understand and want to break up too, but he knew since the moment he met me that was an idea I had for my future and it wasn't even a set future! I feel like he keeps making excuses about why he fell out of love instead of questioning and challenging his thoughts why he felt that way out of the blue which is not normal.

I feel like I was deceived and lied to as well as manipulated into getting into a relationship just because he wanted to feel love. We were a fling before we got together, i was open but not actively looking and he was not looking. He was never really single for long periods, and when I brought up how that could be an issue he reassured me it wasn't. I feel like he just told me what I wanted to hear so that he could ultimately have the feeling of being loved because he wanted me to want him.

I was scared and terrified and told him I really want to make sure we're on the same page about what we want from a relationship and he promised me we were on the same page. Now im left blind sided and whip lashed with emotions and he's treating me like im crazy for not just accepting “i fell out of love”, which yes that is a valid reason to breakup, but i feel like it was just a way for him to run away from his emotions and not deal with it. He said “im not responsible for how you feel” which is true, but you are also not taking responsibility for your feelings you don't understand that is currently hurting another person unnecessarily.

For a whole month he felt this way and didn't want to communicate with me that he was questioning our relationship and how he felt about me. His reasoning for not bringing this up was because he thought the feeling would go away and he thought if we talked about how he felt the relationship would be an immediate end. He said he felt that way because I said from the beginning that I don't want to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't see a future with me or doesn't work everyday to keep me in their life.

He thought i would leave after hearing his doubts and he still felt some love for me so he didn't want to end it, but i wouldnt have left i would have wanted to talk especially since there was a part of him that wanted it to work even with his doubts. He didnt even give us a chance because hes so lost and he cant even see how fucked up this is and he thinks this is all normal and i should just accept this calmly. He keeps avoiding getting therapy because of his inconsistent work schedule, but it's just an excuse we literally have BetterHelp and so many other access points to therapy around our schedule (I did it lolll with layla. Highly recommend them btw!).

I feel I put myself in a bad situation and knowing I can heal doesn't feel like enough safety to ever get back out there. I was looking forward to growth and healing and I feel like being blind sided like this made me lose my ability to enjoy life. Knowing I can heal is great, but now I feel like my anxious attachment is going to eat my life up again because how am i not always going to be looking behind my back that someone around me is not telling me how they feel about me and pretending to love me. I KNOW it's not about me and my worth, but it makes me not want to meet people because I can't enjoy getting to know them without feeling deceived.

I know it all has to do with him and how he feels, but is this what life is? Experiencing the same thing over and over again until you can ultimately handle it? I've done the avoidant discard before and I thought all this healing was to prevent this or at least help me see the signs so I can walk away. I feel like all that healing was just to show myself I can handle this rather than something to help me find healthy relationships. I can't help but doubt myself and my ability to pick partners now when I had done the work to recognize signs and I was STILL blind sided and ended up with an avoidant.

I had so much hope for myself and future relationships, but this discard is worse than all the others because I felt safe and happy and trusted myself that I was in something safe and I was okay sharing my heart.

Ultimately I’m the only one who can control how I feel, so I want to protect my peace by not dating again. Honestly, that scares me because no matter what happened in a breakup I’ve always had hope I’d end up married one day to someone, but now I’m just happy with my dogs and friends. I know that’s okay, but I feel like I lost the romantic in me and lost a part of who I was.

Ty to the original redditor who posted this! 🐺

The cyber smoke signal system often used in relationships can be difficult to decipher at first glance.

But I have finally decoded these modern messages. There may be more breadcrumb varieties out there but these are the ones I know and recognize well.

PREFACE: All avoidant types can do this, but some Manipulatives do it to maintain control and some Selfish Avoidants do it out of curiosity or boredom. No one else is giving the attention right now so you are next on the "I need dopamine roster."

There is a lot of nuance. Sometimes it is done in good faith, and sometimes it is not.

1). The Knock Twice Breadcrumb

The purpose of this breadcrumb is to make sure you are still emotionally attached/alive.

I see it as some older, stylish woman who has a "I see you once a decade" fling with the man in the apartment above her. Their bedrooms are stacked.

Occasionally the woman will be lying in bed, relaxing, watching "The Titanic" for the 1 millionth time. She gets to the scene where Jack dies and she feels sentimental. She remembers her upstairs neighbor and knocks twice. He echoes and knocks twice back.

"Yeah, I'm still here."

The woman, "Cool."

And that's it. It's a simple, "You still exist in my world in some fashion? Can I still reach you? Or are you GONE gone?

The responding knock makes her happy. She feels comforted. I have someone out there that I matter to, and that is enough for me.

Now if he went downstairs to see her, this would upset her. It's not an invitation to come close. She wants him a safe distance from her. She remains with the high class socials on S.S Avoidant, A large ship that serves avoidants silence, quiet, notification blockers, "I can't go excuses" and so on.

And his place is to remain on the ship, somewhere, but not too close. She cannot be seen with the chef. He is not supposed to be apart of her world, just adjacent to it.

So what does that look like?

EXAMPLES of "The Knock Twice Breadcrumb."

1). The Birthday Text

2). The "How are you doing?" texts.

3). The "Hey, you_______yet? OR "you still a brat?"

(I sent that one out to a guy yesterday).

"Hey, you famous yet?"

Translation: "Yeah I know we are SUPER incompatible and it would NEVER work. But I don't hate you. I hope you're okay. I still like and admire you, and it would make me happy to know you're ok. I want you to be okay. The thought of you being sad makes me sad, I'm actually tearing up RN writing this...I hope you are ok. Please be happy and ok."

(But that's it. It's sweet. It's polite. Its a demonstration of care, but I can't entertain a relationship dynamic with him)

It's a "I hope you still care about me a crumbs worth, it would make me happy to know you don't hate me."

1 final example:

Your ex texts you after 2 months of silence. They send you the meme of John Hamm in the club.

You respond, "Lol. How have you been? Do you want to meet up for coffee?"

Avoidant Answer: Silence.

That silence translates to: I Can't. I like you as my star; I see you shine from afar.

NSFW** slight verbal depictions of sex. Rated PG 13.

Ok, listen, I'VE TRIED THIS TWICE.

If you have feelings for him it WILL. NOT. WORK

Sorry for yelling.

But yeah...buckle up.

Its humiliating when its over. You feel SO stupid.

Him: its been 6 months since I've slept with anyone. Lets FWB, minus the F. Nothing serious. Been too busy playing Magic and making ugly twine jewelery.

(Lord can I pick em...)

My stupid ass thought I mattered bc he had been "celibate" since me.

Pffffft

And ANOTHER THING

TMI

But if you thought they manhandled you before...Lord have mercy. I didn't even enjoy it. It was legit just 30 minutes of me trying not to cry.

Him: After* Yeah sorry, I know you were screaming, couldn't stop. Felt too good. Im going upstairs, my new 3D print just finished.

The man hit it twice to show off his new place, and then replaced me.

Him: Yeah but I actually want to pursue a serious connection with her.

...

And then cause we are FWBs...I couldn't say shit.

I could only FEEL like shit.

I'll start. (LDR)

1). He never initiated phone calls or invited me to join his lives (well one time when we first started talking).

2). Lovebombed me to OBLIVION. Holy smokes this man did not hold back. I. Was.Worshipped. Do you know what kind of effect that has on a love starved woman like me?

IT WAS TOO good.

I knew, no way. This is a movie. A fairytale.

A writer getting sweet up with a narrator? The book is literally writing itself.

I am a sucker for male voices and his was leather meeting silk 🫠🫠🫠

I NEVER STOOD A FUCKING CHANCE.

He set his voice to sexy gravel, SAID MY NAME and I perished...

Ok guys, obviously-- I suck at this lol.

My FA fuckery ruined the assignment. Cause i compartmentalize. I still have fondness for that.

And now I ACTUALLY MISS HIM.

FFS

I went from saying what I didn't like about him to goonin over him...Oof.

I FAILED THIS ASSIGNMENT

I mean...DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK...