In my Poll regarding Abby, the broken one won by 4 votes. So I‘m curious, if Abby arrives completely broken and paranoid at the Theatre and even Lev turns on her, would it be better to end her suffering or to just leave her there?
Honestly Adult Ellie was the Character i liked most throughout the Game, despite how she treated Joel. I actually thought the whole arc of her being pissed at him for lying was a good set-up but horribly executed(like the rest of the Game). From the Beginning when Jesse spoke with her about the last Night I thought it was the classical stuff when Kids try to be more independent and thus she doesn’t want to be as dependent anymore but still values him, when Maria talked to her I thought it was just that she did more with her Friends by now but still tried to spend time with him.
Ofc then the whole revelation scene happened, but that actually felt like a valid response aswell, though it was dumb of Druckmann to make her oblivious to it. Before the last Flashback I actually thought they had somewhat made up a year ago or smth, but she was still angry about it.
Its actually quite impressive how Druckmann managed to lay the start for good Arcs to test and strengthen their Bond with the whole Revelation but then destroying it all on purpose so he can have his favorite aka Abbizilla shine more with discount-boy
Already posted my rework of Isaac but now i want to give a little scene to show in in Action.
Context for this scene: Ellie witnesses Isaac interrogating one of Abby‘s friends from Jackson in the Outpost. She is there because Fat Geralt, who leads WLF deserters in my rework told her that if there’s a place where she can find out where Abby is, its there. Ellie is in a Vent and witnesses the Interrogation from it. Also Abby has 2 more friends in this scenario, one of them is the one who gets tortured here.
Scene:
(Ellie crawls through the vents, it reeks of Blood and filth. Suddenly she hears a sharp cry of pain and stops to look through a grille. She spots a Woman tied to a Chair who has been beaten into a pulp and has Wires attached to her body. She‘s weeping, suddenly she starts twitching and to scream again in pain)
Prisoner: Please, I-I-I don‘t know any-aaaaaahh!
(A Man enters Ellies View, he starts talking)
Man: 10 People I have sent Eastwards, in search of this Settlement that recruits told me about. 5 are dead in less than a Week, spread across the City. You‘re telling me this is all a Coincidence Jenny?
Jenny: It, It could‘ve been Scars or AHHHHGH!
(The Man has given someone else in the Room a sign, which apparently activated the Powersource of the Cables. Ellie has seen this in Movies before)
Man: 1 is just another Day, 2 are Coincidence but 3? 3 means there‘s something off about it, especially when they‘re surrounded by a trail of Corpses but have apparently been questioned first. Especially when some Trespassers have been sighted just hours beforehand. So are you gonna keep lying? Or do you want to cooperate?
Jenny: (sniffles in pain) What are you gonna do afterwards, Isaac?
Isaac: This can end in two ways for you: Either you tell me what truly happened on your Mission and we‘ll work further on from there, or I get your Brother and tell him that the others caused this to happen to you. And you know how he is, he wont make it against them
Jenny: (weeps more)
Isaac: but if you tell me the Truth, I‘ll make sure you‘ll be safe. You will serve a punishment but the Pack will take you back in.
Jenny (breaths hard): We, we went East to Jackson County and. And. And
Isaac (Kneels in front of her): And you told me that there was no settlement, that all you found where Ruins. that Someone raided the Town before they could finish their fortifications.
Jenny( try to keep her Head up but fails due to exhaustion): We didn’t set foot in the City, Abby and Owen where the only ones who saw it
Isaac: And what happened then? Where you attacked?
Jenny: Abby, she- she-she went out to search a Patrol for intel and… (nods off)
Isaac: ( Snaps his Fingers close to her Face, causing her to flinch in fear) Hey, stay awake. You almost made it.
(Ellie can’t help but feel somewhat sorry for her, despite what they did)
Jenny: (spits out some blood) She found two Men from the Town who saved her from a Horde, they offered us to refill our supplies and. (A Sound of regret is pressed through her Teeth)
Isaac: So how could the Mission fail? This is what i hoped for! Another group of Survivors who are willing to trade with us. What did Abby fuck up?
Jenny: She, she, she attacked them. Almost blew his Leg off
Isaac: Why would she do that? She knew how important this Mission was, she volunteered for it after all!
Jenny: She recognized him from somewhere Years ago. She beat the shit out of him with a Golf club.
Isaac: (stands up, walks around the room, kicks something that Ellie can’t see clearly the turns around and looks down on Jenny): Why?
Jenny: he killed someone who was close to her or smth like that
Isaac: Did anyone witness it?
Jenny: The other Guy who was his brother, he was the trail she had to him and some Girl who came sometime after to our Hideout
Isaac: What did you do with them?
Jenny: The Guy was knocked out before it really started but the Girl saw some of it and Begged her to stop (Starts to cry again)
(Ellie remembers her own words, and her hands clutch into fists)
Isaac: and you let them live?
Jenny: (nods scared)
Isaac: So you didn’t just fail the Mission, you outright sabotaged it. And you left witnesses, now they know about us and they‘ll never trust Outsiders as easily as before. That means my Plan is ruined!
(Isaac pulls out a Knife and seems to stab Jenny, but stops as he sees her turning her head away from him. He lowered the Weapon and turns to where Ellie suspects a Guard)
Isaac: get Mark here, have him patch her up. I‘ll decide later what‘s to be done with her now I have to deal with some Angel of Vengeance.
Ellie(internal Monolouge): So that’s Isaac, no wonder the Fatso wants to get away from him
Turned out to be a bit longer than I thought, but that’s the Thing with Scripts. What do you think from this? Please Comment because i appreciate Feedback
What bothers me most aside form the Narrative is that so many things remain without consequence. For example:
On my first Playthrough i turned the Hospital into a bloodbath, partially because they kept spotting me, partially because i wanted to honor Joel, partially because i thought it would be necessary to advance. Yet later when you‘re in the Vents nothing happened at all. Sure they were listening to Music but unless they‘re half deaf then they would‘ve heard the Gunshots and Explosions. The most stupid part was when Nora said there would be Soldiers all around if Ellie fired her revolver, which i suspected which is why i crafted a Silencer beforehand but Ellie took the Revolver. So my Reaction was: „You mean the Soldiers i just dealt with?“ but ofc reinforcements just arrived out of thin air.
Another is like many already mentioned, that if you actually refuse to kill Enemies who are kneeling, they‘ll just attack you anyway, further proving Druckmanns Hypocrisy but that topic has been chewed to death already.
And i found a fun way to deal with the Dogs. I read under a Video about the Gameplay how one Guy placed the Mines on the scent trail and if you‘re lucky you‘ll get 2 for one. nothing to do with the subject, just a little fun fact I wanted to throw in
Tried to design a new Logo for the Seraphites because the one they have looks stupid, like is it a Fish or a stretched out Eye? Made this one with AI because I can’t draw well or good, but wanted to add some visuals.
Anyhow: The Seraphites make no sense all the way down to their Name: it means that they’re Angels like the Seraph who are essentially God highest Love, which could explain their whole „Love-Sacrifice“ but it feels really boring. So here‘s a little more to my Rework of them:
The founder of them had a Vision a few Years before the Outbreak where he saw smth that he thought was the Seraph and warned him about a Catastrophe to come. He interpreted it as Gods Wrath for Humanity’s Sins or whatever, so he founded the original form. After the Outbreak he was taken more serious and more people started to join the cult, which angered Fedra but they had to focus on the WLF, so the Serapithes could build their Paradise on the Island. The Prophet from the Original was among the first People who joined the Cult, which is why her Death sparked the holy War, but since Seraph means „the burning one“ or smth like that, they also sometimes burn WLF members alive, as they view Machines as sinful. That being said, they use some of those because they have been cleansed by the Cult leader (typical religious hypocrisy if you want) and have a unit called the Ash-anointed (first pitch) who can be met in infected nests. They wear Black leather coats instead of Brown ones, use gasmasks and are stronger than the regular ones. Also some of the Seraphites use chainmail armor which makes them harder to kill as they‘re protected against Melee-weapons, arrows and sometimes pistol (before they‘re upgraded).
The Cult leader also saw in his vision that one day new humans would appear who would be able to live in the World cleansed by the Wrath and would so be able to win the War against the Demons aka the infected, which brings me to Lev: The Theory of Lev being immune has been around since launch and it makes sense for the Seraphites to deny her to become a soldier because they view her as too valuable. In my reworked Version the Cult leader would meet Ellie at some point and be impressed that she‘s also immune which is why he absolves her of her actions against his soldiers. Still working out the Part that comes after that.
As for my new Logo: i wanted to keep the Insect theme and a Moth felt like a good Idea considering we have one on the Guitar. The Seraphites would call it the Ashen One‘s Gaze, while the WLF would simply call it the Ash Moth as some kind of slur like they call them Scars, still thinking about adding the Ingame Logo to it but I‘ll have to train my Drawing skills first for that
After the whole climbing tutorial and the Combat tutorial i was still skeptic after many Star Wars Flops, but what actually got me into forgetting those was when you first hear Cere, because in the Dub i played she had the same Voice Actress as from the Clone Wars Dubs. In Fact i had the slight hope that it was Ventress which would have been awesome, ofc that wasn’t the case so I was still a bit downed but it tickled enough Nostalgia to give the Game a Chance before the Refund-option expired on Steam.
After the whole climbing tutorial and the Combat tutorial i was still skeptic after many Star Wars Flops, but what actually got me into forgetting those was when you first hear Cere, because in the Dub i played she had the same Voice Actress as from the Clone Wars Dubs. In Fact i had the slight hope that it was Ventress which would have been awesome, ofc that wasn’t the case so I was still a bit downed but it tickled enough Nostalgia to give the Game a Chance before the Refund-option expired on Steam.
A little context first: i was banned for a week because quoting Statistics from Feds on a sub that allows it is apparently Heresy now, but whatever. I decided to do a little „Pilgrims Journey“ back to the Place of our Conflict. And what i realized years ago hit me again: IF Druckmann actually held up to his own standards, the Backlash wouldn’t have happened, because Abby would need to be punished even harder than Joel. I already made a Post how he‘s a hypocrite for that, but its just too funny if you think about it: The great moral apostle who preaches holier than though, bended the very fabric of his morals to absolve his OC. Shows again that if he and his flock didn’t have double standards, they‘d have none at all.
Warum hat Kaddi eigentlich seit Jahren keinen neuen Teil mehr rausgebracht?
We as the player wouldn’t know it on our first Run until we him again at the end of the 1st 3rd of the Game? it would be done through Camera Work and letting Dialouge be Vague on Purpose so the Reveal scene from the Trailer could kick really hard. it would sorta end the Depressive theme and start the themes of ambiguity, hope and caution, because he‘s still not in great shape and Ellie thinks of aborting the Quest
Yeah, this was probably said before a couple times but I‘ll say it anyway: Druckmann isn’t the kind of Person who can be Director of anything without having a superior and it showed in his „Opus Magnum“ and in the Backlash that it sparked. He couldn’t take the Blame, nor the criticism or the responsibility for purposely disappointing Customers who were loyal to Naughty Dog for years. A true leader knows when he has to set his Ego aside for the sake of a project and when to admit wrongdoings. Like George Lucas for example who minimized Jar Jar‘s role in the prequels after the character got backlash and he knew that he can‘t fight them because they determined the success of his product. Or the classic Example: how Bruce Straley knew that no one would‘ve played a Game centered around Revenge if God of War already existed at the time, without giving the Player something unique in comparison.
So Burrows feared that Jessamine would find out he caused the Plague to break out so he had her assassinated, but why didn’t he just find a Scapegoat and destroyed all traces that lead to him? Feels rather overcomplicated to stage a whole Coup when you can just aswell get rid of a Rival. Sure he needed her out of Power to enforce Quarantines but couldn’t he have just let Sokkolov brew him something that had the same symptoms as the Plague but was actually harmless? She would be unfit to rule, he steps in and voila
Yes you read correctly and I regret that aswell but it’s the truth. After you completed the Game, you realize that nothing you do has any impact at the end and that renders every effort null and void, which makes the game feel hollow. Which is sad because the Atmosphere is awesome but you don’t have a reason to do anything other than the bare minimum because you know everything is gonna be destroyed.
While we only got the one Open Zone, I‘m interested how you thought about it? It reminded me of Metro Exodus, though it felt defenetly more empty because in the End we only fought Infected there. The Court and the Bank where somewhat fun, but in the End it felt more like a scrapped concept that they used because it cost too many resources to not use. Do you think more Open Zones could‘ve been fun or that they were a bad Idea from the Start?
Under my Reworks of Isaac, the first Comment had the idea of using Fat Geralt as the leader of a Group of WLF-Deserters, who want to leave Seattle, but can’t due to Isaac Controlling all working Gates. They would call themselves Strays or Mongrels as that name was given to them by the WLF when they defected and managed to secure a Metro-Station (calling it Metro because its easier than the actual name) which isn’t accessible on the surface for vehicles because of Debris from destroyed Buildings but some paths still exist. It would be a little Homage to the Metro-games as they have repurposed the Station in to a Hideout Base. And they still have some somewhat intact Tunnels which lead to the Rest of the City.
Fat Geralt would be a former WLF Officer who lost faith in Isaac and the WLF after he started to kill Dissidents, so he would be open to help Ellie on her Quest, because Abby has killed many of their Friends and Family as Isaacs Top-enforcer. He would try to get Tommy into telling them where Jackson is, because he knows they can’t hide in the Underground forever. The Climax could be that the WLF raids the Base at some time further cementing the Theme of them becoming even worse than Fedra.
Would you prefer a pure evil Abby or an Abby that’s completely broken after her attempt to kill Joel (attempt because he survives in this theory) as an antagonist?
The Seraphites were the stereotypical „Apocalyptic Cult“ that Neil only invented because he needed an Enemy Faction for Abby that she could kill without any bad feelings plaguing her( like she could feel any) so here‘s my Spin on them:
The Seraphites formed originally even before the Outbreak, though thy were just a „hippie“commune who wanted more than consumerism and careers which is why they were seen as fools at first. During Fedra‘s Reign of the City, they didn’t cause too much trouble compared to the WLF which is why they flew under the Radar of Fedra and where able to smuggle supplies to the Properties who would become the Island later on. Fedra separated the Island from the Mainland after they requested Bombardement of lost territories which left some Members of them stranded on the Main land at first, Isaac tolerated them at first but some Members stole supplies while others clashed with the WLF‘S devotion to Isaac, in the end he declared them Strangers which means they‘re not Part of the WLF, so they wouldn’t be protected by them anymore or could take supplies from them anymore. After the relocation of all survivors to the stadium things got more tense to the point where Isaac lequidated the Martyr who isn’t the Prophet in this draft but was part of the Founders.
The Seraphites think that machines make Humans weak and dependent on them, similar to drugs, yet they recognize the necessity of some of them. They view the Infected as Natures wrathful vengeance on Humanity for ravaging and pillaging her for Ressources like Oil, Coal or Gold. In the start some naive members thought they wouldn’t be attacked by them because they weren’t greedy as the others but that didn’t work out, so they became more and more militant, similar to Eden‘s Gate from Far Cry 5. They think that all Humans can life in Harmony if they follow the Founders teachings which boil down to:
-dont let Wrath, Greed or Hate dictate your actions
-dont take more than you need
-Judge not without knowing all sides
-dont get ripped apart between Confidence and Doubt
Ofc those teachings faded during the War with the WLF, which sparked from them taking in Fedra Soldiers and officers who couldn’t live with their Actions but couldn’t join the WLF for obvious Reasons. Isaac demanded that they handed them over but the remaining Founders refused to because they claimed they were reborn in their swarm/flock thus losing the guilt from their past lives. After that Woman was lequidated, they realized that the WLF wouldn’t tolerate other Powers in Seattle, so they retreated to the Island, but the Martyr Gate remained Holy land so some pilgrims made their way there, the WLF killed them, starting the holy War for them, which started the lynching as cleansing procedures. Only the strongest are chosen for that and they know that they go against the teachings of the Founder but they see no other way.
The Leadership would be made out of The last living Founding Member and the Elders who keep taking more and more power, which is why the Founder thinks that they lost their way, making Room for a Storyline for Ellie. The Founder could have the theme of Forgiveness as his trait while also being aware of the necessity of violence.
The reason they cut their Cheeks is because before the fights, they tried to smile more, which pissed off most soldiers so one day, some where beaten up and given a Jokersmile as mocking, which led them to embrace it as their thing.
I also had the idea of one Scar, perhaps the Son of the Founder to realize that the Swarm needs to be purged from the Greed of the Elders especially after they wanted to marry a child. Still the weakest of my reworks but what do you think?
On the other sub i found a Post where ChatGPT made a character Analysis of Ellie and Abby and who would‘ve guessed, even the AI classified Abby as controversial while seeing Ellie as the true Protagonist. Obviously the Glazers were rabid about that, so i thought it could be fun to repost it here, but it‘s not possible. Anybody knows why?
So Issacs plan was to deal with the Scars by killing them all or enough so that they couldn’t pose a threat anymore. But these Guys were already killing his Soldiers in the City and the Island is their Turf which they know far better and will most likely have countermeasures so they will most likely just encircle them and flip the table. The WLF doesn’t have Transport ships, so they can’t use their Humvee‘s which means they have about the same Weapons minus the Territory advantage. It was doomed from the start and no one would‘ve ever though about it being a solution given they don’t have Millions of cannonfodder soldiers. A better take would‘ve been if the WLF found some old Artillery equipment like Mortars and howitzers in a Fedra Base they cleared but couldn’t access before because it was buried under ruins. Or some Chemical Weapons. Once it agains it proves that you can‘t write smarter Characters than yourself if Druckmann thought that Guy was a mastermind
I loved Horizon Zero Dawn from the Minute the Intro ended and I was impressed by how well the Story was made for its Concept, so I was hyped for Forbidden West but what I got was lackluster to be polite, The Two Recaps after another really killed the Vibe because it felt pointless to tell the same Briefing twice and the Intro Mission felt more like a scrapped DLC. I tried to get into it but smth was just missing, everytime it seemed like it could get interesting, (regallas Attack, arrival of the Zeniths, Meeting the Quen, Finding out Faro was still alive) it was resolved within the same Cutscene thus killing any sense of Drama that Zero Dawn did so well. And the other Problem was that Aloy‘s character was changed completely. The Aloy i know from Zero Dawn might‘ve not been very social but she also wasn’t such a Brat. The Original Aloy was grateful for her Friends, because she knew what being an outcast was, this one seemed more annoyed and i know they tried to justify that by saying „she doesn’t want to lose them“ but its also the Way she behaves towards most People. In Zero Dawn Aloy was snarky, snippy but also calm and reserved. In this she was more like the classical Mary Sue that killed Hollywood. Another point is the Gameplay, Weapons are too weak the Beginning to actually do smth and the Upgrades were so expensive at launch yet made next to no difference and the Flying sucked, half the time i expected to fall out of the Air like a Rock. I wanted this Game to be awesome and stood next to, perhaps even surpass the Original, but it just didn’t work