u/TitleOk3727

If the scenario wasn’t as crappy written and we wouldnt have bias due to knowing Joel and Ellie longer, which we all have but thats how human nature just works, do you think this „Trial-narrative“ where the player is the Jury in a trial between two protagonists could work?

Lets say a case wasn’t as horribly written as part 2s, where we start with a new character, another one is introduced, they have beef with each other and suddenly we see the other side of the story, would that work properly with the right writing skills?

Like in the Frankenstein Movie from last year where we saw that Viktor was an unreliable narrator so the part of the audience who didnt knew the story already, was more interested in the monsters PoV

Part 2s whole pitch was to tear Joel and Ellie down for nothing but kicks that Druckmann wanted to get, but the truth is no matter what the circumstances would‘ve been in the story, Abby was destined to draw the short end of the stick from the moment she killed Joel. The reason for that is simple, the human psyche:

It doesn’t matter if Abby would‘ve been presented to us as a saint prior to her murder of Joel or if we knew her backstory beforehand, we know Joel and Ellie longer than her so in a conflict we will pick their side, because Abby is a Stranger to us or just not as important. So Druckmann decided to fight the psycho-emotional condition of the community which as expected didn’t work out.

He could‘ve made Joel kill Abbys‘s father in the cruelest way possible and we would still choose him more likely, which is how loyalty works.

And no matter when they would‘ve done it in the Campaign, it wouldn’t have worked as they intended. The reason for that are Primal Instincts, the first major important thing we see her do is to Torture and kill Joel while Ellie watches, so she‘s established as an Enemy and the game spends Hours to reinforce that Idea and then all of a sudden we‘re supposed to listen to her side, when she has just killed Jesse and holds Ellie at Gunpoint? No chance in Hell this would work on People who don’t get Stockholm-syndrome.

If anything her story could‘ve worked as a post-game campaign, which would‘ve forced the game to make her „progression“ visible to Ellie

Found an Abby-simp post in my feed from the tlou main sub but thankfully enough people called him out for the hypocrisy, so how do people keep falling for that crap?

Can‘t really think of another ending for Abby other than her dying at the end because there’s no way in Hell she would recover from being such a hypocrite, horrible Beast, but I need an alternative for my rewrite Idea. So what would your Idea for her fate be if Ellie spares her in a rewrite?

View Poll

While the overall segment didn’t bother me that much, I agree somewhat with his rant at the end.

Everything Ellie knows about lev is that he help kill Jesse or didnt question it, that he crippled Tommy and that he stuck to Abby despite hearing that she started the killing.

Him being a Kid doesn’t absolve him of this, which is a reason why i didnt feel bad when Ellie threatened to kill him, in Fact she should‘ve replied to Abby’s „he‘s got nothing to do with this“ with „neither did Jesse, but you dragged him into this“. In fact the more you think about Lev the more it becomes obvious that he and Yara were just plot devices, just like all of Abbie’s friends, Yara could‘ve probably confronted Abby about Ellies statement but that requires actual competent writing instead of just the fanfic level we got

Out of curiosity, if you could‘ve created an ending for Abby where she doesn’t die immediately, what would it look like?

My Ideas are often just slight alterations of what the rattlers did with her, but that’s not really fulfilling after what she did with Joel, so what are your ideas?

Anyone actually felt bad when Abby got captured by the rattlers?

Saw a post on the sucker-subs today and the comments were the usual „Abbys dad died, feel bad man swine, blahblahblah“ and my only thought was, man these are the kind of guys who feel bad for the criminal and shame the victim for speaking out.

Anyway, my only reaction to Abby getting caught by the most comical evil faction Druckmann could come up with and who coincidentally wore police-equipment was similar to Frank the rhinos one from Ice Age: „Oh damn it! The rattlers beat us to it!“

Rewatched the Maze Runner Movies recently and while they weren’t perfect adaption either, they did remind me a lot of the last of us in their themes. And honestly a W.C.K.D storyline would‘ve been far more enjoyable than the misery-porn Druckmann delivered.

Example: There are in fact more Immune people and they always where some since the start of the outbreak and Fedra or their bosses knew about them which is why the public never knew. Fedra kept them locked up and experimented on them but couldn’t create a vaccine due their immunity being different than Ellies. In Seattle someone knew about these Researchs which is why the WLF managed to rise up against them without becoming the typical hunterclan afterwards.

Jerry could‘ve even been part of that research which explains why he thinks he can create a vaccine at least similar to how >!Theresa thought she had to find a cure, which is why she betrayed them in the movies!< but there the movie knew she was in the wrong.

Part 2s whole premise builds upon that gag from Austin powers where we see the Family and friends of the Henchmen who just died painfully, but that was meant as a joke. It doenst matter how noble Jerry’s Intentions where, the moment he was ok with harvesting a little Girl without her Consent showed that he was willing to do anything for his cause, which would be admirable if he didnt have double standards when Marlene confronted him with Abby.

And just because he was a Father doesn’t mean we have to feel sorry for him because it doesn’t absolve anyone, real-life historical example: Joseph Goebbels had 6 children during his time as Head of Ministry of Propaganda in WW2, does that mean he gets a free pass from his crimes against humanity? He ordered his wife to kill all 6 of them because he knew that the soviets would‘ve done way worse things to them because he knew Stalins methods who was also a Father but that didnt stop him from killing 20 million people during his reign.

Long story short: Neil tried to sell us his one sided narrative as grey, when in reality it couldnt be more black and white

Despite it being the shitshow that it was, its a great way to test how your critical thinking and recognition of Cause-and-Effect relationship.

If you fall for the trap to think that Abby is in the right then you fail the test because this whole thing started with a personal decision she made on a long-term plan, while all Joel did was act in the heat of the moment, which is debatable but would be considered the lighter crime in context.

If by at the end you think that it’s unfair that Ellie who broke the cycle despite losing more is only given an unknown ending while Abby who actively ruined multiple lives gets a confirmed fresh start is unjust you proved that you see the dissonance and the victim-perpetrator reversal.

What kind of Levels would you have liked to get for Ellie, aside from the Island and the Skycraper?

I actually thought a Mall could be a great Idea, as a Hommage to left behind or a Chemical Plant or an Airport.

A bit off-topic but this sub is the only one i know that actually allows criticism. People who can‘t take criticism of Games they supposedly like snitch on themselves, that they know of those weaknesses, but dont want to see them because it could affect their perfect piece of media.

The funny thing is that imperfections in Characters actually make them more interesting, as it gives them the opportunity to grow and improve on these mistakes, example: the fact that Joel was a Hunter, therefore has done things he‘s not proud of or wants Ellie to know about makes him more interesting as it shows that despite the world going to shit, he knows some things cross a certain line.

We can all agree that a Reason why no one likes Abby despite Druckmann Disciples, is that she doesn’t take Responsibility for her actions. But while I was rewatching the first Season of the Boys (best Season btw) the Part were (spoiler Alert!) Hughie give A-train CPR after he had a heart attack, Starlight warns him that he will never stop hunting him, but Hughie takes that risk because he cant live with taking another Life when its avoidable. And it just perfectly showed me again that the final Episode of Season 1 had the whole „Revenge doesn’t solve anything“ trope done infinitely better than Druckmanns Gore-Porn.

But it also got me thinking: What if Abby took responsibility for her actions? Let’s say her Friends warn her about Ellie coming for her first in the lodge and then at the second day in Seattle, but she takes the Risk because she knows what she feels and accepts what’s about to come for her.

Would it have changed the perception of the Game to the Point that it might‘ve actually worked?

IF Neil wasn’t incompetent he would realize that everything he used for Part 2 would be better in a different game where Abby could be the tragic hero he wanted her to be. But he knew he wouldn’t have gotten as much production money for it, so he did the classical modern-writer-move and hijacked a good IP to insert his fanfiction in it. It’s impressive how these guys could probably sell their ideas way better if they wouldn’t shoehorn them into other Projects

Anyone else felt like they were actually less upgrades this time? Sure they went for a more realistic approach but it kinda killed the upgrading because you basically only get one Upgrade per stat and done. Kinda kills the progression system, doesn’t it? It also doesn’t help that both basically share Joels Arsenal (aside from the semi-automatic, the double barrel and the Cross-bow) which makes it seem even more lazy in terms of Armament. The better solution would‘ve been to give Ellie the same Weapons as Joel throughout the game, plus some new ones and either delete Abbys Part or give her Weapons that are more fitting of the WLF

We know that Grievous slaughtered the Nightsisters and that he is the Armored Warrior Merrin saw as a Child. It would honestly be an awesome Fanservice an great way to develop her character further when Cal tells her the truth about Grievous.

For that to happen I thought of the following Scenario:

During a Mission to a planet with a connection to the Dark Side, Dathomir or maybe even Korriban, Merrin gets overwhelmed by the Dark side there and sees a vision from her Past and because Cal has the ability to sense an objects past and because of their Bond and the place, he can see what she sees and understands now why she thinks it was a Jedi who slaughtered her Sisters.

This Vision Grievous would fight like his 2003 version, could even use his theme and would be an extremely hard enemy. He could even turn more demonic since he‘s a memory by Merrin, the longer you fight him. Making him a Boss that’s impossible to beat on the first try like Bode or the Vision of Cal‘s Master , so they‘d have to retreat and would face him later again.

Many complained that Maria acted out of Character for the like 7 minutes she had in the Sequel, but honestly? I thought she was turned around the least, she still acts as the Towns leader, thus trying to keep things calm and she can‘t just leave Jackson because everyone counts on her. She also knows Ellie long enough to know that she won‘t listen to her on that matter so its „best (most ressource-saving)“ to let her go.

I honestly think she should‘ve appeared in more Flashbacks and at the ending. One could be were Tommy remembers Joel seeking the two of them out while Ellie was avoiding him and her telling him „I can‘t imagine what she‘s going through right now, but my old Man also had his hard times with me. She‘ll come to you, when she‘s ready“ which reminds Joel of a time were Sarah was angry at him for smth trivial and he then proceeds to just give her space which has the intended effect.

Another Role of hers should be that the People of Jackson demand a Reaction after these Drifters attacked them and what she plans on doing about it, where she then understands their concerns because her Husband was attacked too and that they shouldn’t think she takes this lightly.

Honestly impressive how they were writing female characters far better when they weren‘t trying so hard

Already did a post on how their Bond makes no sense compared to Joel and Ellie‘s (which everyone here knows) but that one was more focused on Abby, so this one is focusing more on the PoV of the kids.

They ran away from the Scars because Lev didnt want to take the role the community assigned to him. The punishment for deserting is death and they are literally running for their lives. They help Abby because she helped them against the Scars who captured Yara and later she offers them help and they take it because they have no other choice, but aren‘t they more suspicious of the WLF?

The whole reason the fighting continued is because the WLF killed those child soldiers and Lev always wanted to be a soldier, yet he has no problems working together with the Top Scar Killer, sure he doesn’t know it because he wasn’t actually one but Yara should know, yet she never thinks of the possibility that Abby could trade them in to save her skin. Why are they so attached to this random Woman they rescued? It can’t be because they lack a Mother Figure, because when Yara finds her dead, she reacts with sorrow, meaning while she was a fanatic, she still did a somewhat decent Job and no one ver brings up the possibility that Abby might‘ve killed their Father aswell.

Lev later helps her in the theatre despite him not knowing anything about these people and him hearing that Abby killed one of them, which got them there.

The way this could work once again is if Lev and Yara had an older Sibling that went missing shortly before and whose absence left a void in their Life and Abby fills that place, though it might be that she killed that sibling too.

Ellie became so attached to Joel because he was the first Father figure she had in her Life and Ellie filled the Void Sarah left behind in return. Abby and Lev on the other hand are just allies because of plot convenience and sympathy points (funny how those apply when they fit the narrative)

It would‘ve been interesting if turned out that Abby is responsible for destroying their Family by killing their Father and the hypothetical sibling either in Combat or Interrogation, making her realize that all she does is bring harm and despair