An introduction to Thomasine Christianity
▲ 206 r/ChristianMysticism+1 crossposts

An introduction to Thomasine Christianity

Who were the Thomasines?

The Thomasines are an hypothetical community of Christians from the 2nd century AD. It's thought they originated from Syria, and were part of a broader pre-Nicene Syriac Christian tradition, although a minority of scholars support their literature being composed in Alexandria.

When the Gospel of Thomas and the Book of Thomas the Contender were first found among the codexes found at Nag Hammadi, scholars were quick to suggest Gnostic providence. However, scholars have reevaluated both the definition for Gnosticism and the Gnostic providences of different texts among the codexes, and have now suggested that the Gospel of Thomas was not originally written by Gnostics.

The Gospel of Thomas, the Book of Thomas the Contender, and the Acts of Thomas have all been suggested as texts used by an hypothetical Thomasine community. Although the first two books were found in their most complete form in Coptic, they were most likely originally written in Greek; a minority of scholars support the texts having originally been written in Syriac. The Gospel of Thomas, the core Thomasine text, has been hypothesised by Elaine Pagels, as well as members of the Jesus Seminar, to date to the 1st century. However, a majority of scholars across the Greek and Syriac camps today more confidently date the Gospel of Thomas to various points in the 2nd century.

Origin and beliefs

There is no unified theory for Thomasine scholars, and some scholars reject the idea that the Gospel of Thomas is wholly systemised. Scholars lean towards the Thomasine texts being rooted in Jewish mysticism or Sapiential traditions. Here are the most notable theories:

  • Stevan Davies was one of the earliest scholars to break away from the original consensus of Gospel of Thomas being a Gnostic text, and proposed that the text is Sapiential and non-apocalyptic. Jesus is the speaker for Wisdom, or Sophia. Many parallels can be made between Jesus' sayings and Deuterocanonical books such as Sirach and the Wisdom of Solomon. The Book of Thomas the Contender similarly shows signs of being a Sapiential text.
  • Harold Bloom argues for the Gospel of Thomas being at least Proto-Gnostic. Bloom proposes that Jesus in the Gospel of Thomas is an Anthropos, an ideal, primeval man, possibly genealogically related to the Adam Kadmon of Kabbalah; however the Antropos seems to be more anthropomorphic, literally human c.f. Naassene or Audian (both take Genesis 1:27 literally). This is potentially the root of the anti-materialism of the Gospel of Thomas: with the fall of Adam, time began and humanity was separated from the Anthropos. That would essentially make the material world contemptible, as the Thomasine Adam is contemptible, and make it a place to be escaped to return to a pre-fall human condition in union with the Anthropos and therefore in union with God. This is almost analogous to Theosis in orthodox Christianity, except Bloom's Thomasinianism rejects the incarnation, in place of Jesus being the first and ideal human, while also divine, since before time.
  • April DeConick argues against the text being originally Gnostic. Rather, she proposes that the text was written as several layers over time, going from an apocalyptic text written by a group of Syriac Jewish Christians that questioned Jamesian leadership at Jerusalem, to a more mystic text with Middle Platonist influences. The earliest layer contains the basic belief that all humans were separated from their original place in heaven, and that they may only return to their luminous form by a vision of God's Kavod, as part of early Merkabah traditions. The text may also include a unique, predestined soteriology of each person having to unite with their twin-angels (c.f. recurrent twin motifs) in heaven in order to achieve spiritual ascent: which may be genealogically linked to the idea of guardian angels in Abrahamic religions today, except in this case it's as though the person and angel are meant to be united in single hypostases.

The common ground of all the theories is that the Thomasines, in practice, were an itinerant, ascetic group, that lacked the institutionalism of Greek churches at the end of the 1st century. They also likely had Docetic tendencies. The Christology of the Gospel of Thomas is ambiguous, although potentially divine according to Bloom's theory. An Angelomorphic Christology is explicitly rejected by the text. Logion 13 is one of the most awesome and terrible sayings of the Gospel of Thomas and it's easy to make the conclusion that the Apostle of Thomas' mystic vision concluded with Jesus being YHWH, similar to the conclusion of the Merkabah vision of the Apostle Paul. However, DeConick has made a more mundane interpretation of the logion describing an early Eucharistic formula. Logion 30 is another seemingly radical saying, that at first glance seems to divide the Trinity into three separate deities. However, it is most likely, a Coptic mistransmission of the original Greek: "where there are three, they are without God," which according to Marvin Meyer is essentially Matthew 18:20 turned on its head to denounce churches or gatherings, in favour of personal, mystical experience. Robert M. Grant and David Noel Freeman also suggest that the saying was perhaps later "Gnosticised" into regarding gods, rather than just regarding human individuals.

The Thomasines seem to have ignored the biographical details of Jesus' life. In contrast to other early Syrian Christian groups, there is the real possibility of the Gospel of Thomas and the Thomasines being, to a degree, antinomian. It's debated and DeConick hypothesises if a later accretion was written in light of a dispute regarding circumcision in the community. Logion 19, also cross-referenced in the Acts of Thomas ch. 27, perhaps references the five words for mind: hauna (sanity), mad'a (reason), re'yana (mindfulness), mahshebhatha (imagination), and tar'itha (intention), further supporting the Thomasines nevertheless being part of a greater Syriac Christian tradition.

Evidence for the community

The Thomasines were never mentioned in Patristic sources explicitly. Possible Thomasine beliefs, such as Docetism, Audianism, Modalism, were individually denounced but were attributed to various heresiarchs, rather than a single Christian school or community. What unites Thomasine texts such as the Gospel of Thomas and the Acts of Thomas is also a high view of Thomas Didymus -"the twin"- and recurrent twin motifs throughout the text. The "heresies" of the Thomasines resemble that of other Christian groups from the same geographical area like the Audians, Naassenes and Elcesites.

Interestingly, key evidence for the Thomasines may be found in the New Testament itself. The Doubting Thomas narrative in the Gospel of John lacks cross-references with the other synoptic Gospels. As the story goes, Thomas struggled to believe that Jesus had literally resurrected in his flesh. It was only when Jesus made Thomas literally see and touch his wounds from the crucifixion that Thomas believed. Gregory J. Riley has hypothesised that this narrative was polemic against the Thomasines for their equivalent of Docetism. In contrast, the community or author of the Gospel of John asserted the incarnation. Even though the text may be from the 2nd century onwards, this hypothesis may put the beginning of the existence of the Thomasine community in the 1st century.

Scholars are overall somewhat affirmative of the Thomasine community. However, Simon Gathercole believes the Gospel of Thomas is dependent on the synoptic gospels and Pauline letters, making the Thomasines a much later sect than believed by the likes of Riley and DeConick. Nicholas Perrin, a proponent of the Gospel of Thomas having originally been written in Syriac, argues that the text is a redacted form of Tatian's 2nd c. Gospel harmony with Syriac literary techniques. Perrin's position makes up a minority, but it is an interesting notion, and it remains an open possibility.

The disappearance of the Thomasines

The Gospel of Thomas had a significant influence on the Valentinian school of Gnosticism. According to the newest theories that point towards the Gospel of Thomas being non-Gnostic or a Proto-Gnostic text, then Gospel of Thomas and the Acts of Thomas show signs of either Valentinian redactions, or rather signs of the community being influenced by Middle Platonists and other Gnostics. The most complete texts we have were copied and used by Gnostics.

Stephen Patterson hypothesises that the Thomasines may have struggled with Christianity's transition from being an itinerant network to institutionalised churches. Another possible cause for the disappearance and lack of records for the Thomasines is the resultant suppression of Jewish Christian sects following the Council of Nicaea. What's curious is that the Acts of Thomas became an hagiographical source for orthodox Nicene Christians in the following centuries, and post-Nicene Syriac Christian traditions continue today in the Syriac Orthodox church, the Maronite Church, the Chaldean Catholic Church and the Assyrian Church of the East.

Thomasine literature seems to have also been passed down to the Manichaeans who, possibly via their Elcesite heritage, continued and expanded upon Thomasine beliefs. The Naassenes used the Gospel of Thomas and may have shared a belief in an Anthropos-like figure; the Naassenes have been proposed as a community that developed from the Thomasines, or rather that they were the successors of the Thomasines after their beliefs evolved into what can more confidently be described as Gnosticism.

What did Thomasine practice look like?

While the Gospel of Thomas seems to reject conventional forms of piety in Logion 14, by no means is it certain that the Thomasines were not liturgical or sacramental. David W. Kim suggests that the group kept ritual baptism and, like other Jewish Christian groups, the Sabbath was kept. Found at Qumran, the Songs of Sabbath Sacrifice is a liturgical texts of angelic priests singing before the throne of YHWH. Mystic hymn-singing and chants may have also happened among Thomasines. If DeConick's Eucharistic hypothesis is correct, then Thomasines might have believed in some form of communion. Their view of communion is difficult to ascertain, however, because the Thomasines may have been Docetists; this would potentially rule out a transubstantial view of the Eucharist. Taking the logia at face value, communion may have rather been seen as a liquid source for the precious Wisdom (as so valued in the Book of Thomas the Contender) that would aid in a Thomasine's ascent.

One of the reasons why it's so difficult to reconstruct the practice of any Merkabah/Hekhalot group is the Guruism. Each heaven has its own angelic gatekeepers that would require the Mantric recitation of angelic names, special postures, secret seals and numerological codes, to achieve the ascent. This would have been passed down as part of communal transmission in secrecy. Just like how many Gnostic sects and mystery cults lost the history of their practice, so may have the Thomasines. It just goes to show how crucial the Dead Sea Scrolls discovery was in uncovering the history of early Jewish mysticism.

Further reading

  • Marvin Meyer, The Gospel of Thomas: The Hidden Sayings of Jesus
  • Stevan Davies, The Gospel of Thomas and Christian Wisdom (1983)
  • April DeConick, Seek to See Him: Ascent and Vision Mysticism in the Gospel of Thomas (1996)
  • April DeConick, Recovering the Original Gospel of Thomas: A History of the Gospel and Its Growth (2006)
  • Stephen J. Patterson, The Gospel of Thomas and Jesus (1993)
  • Gregory J. Riley, Resurrection Reconsidered: Thomas and John in Controversy (1995)
  • Nicholas Perrin, Thomas: The Other Gospel (2007)
  • Risto Uro, Thomas: Seeking the Historical Context of the Gospel of Thomas (2003)
  • Jan Bremmer, The Apocryphal Acts of Thomas (2001)
  • Kim, Jung Hoon, The Significance of Clothing Imagery in the Pauline Corpus (2004)
u/Whole_Maybe5914 — 3 days ago
▲ 35 r/Gnostic

Sir Walter Raleigh's poem before being executed by Elizabeth I. Thought it might resonate with you guys

u/Whole_Maybe5914 — 14 days ago

Christianity is the least "greater than the world" as you can get. It's the opposite of spirituality.

Christianity claims to be something greater than naturalism, than materialism. But then its preordained path for you is to just work, collect resources, breed, and do rituals. For the rest of your life. That's animalistic!

I remember being lectured by my dad to marry a girl at 18 just because it's when she's most fertile, or whatever.

With Christianity, beyond the Problem of Evil, historical-critical concerns, etc, I also had this angst that my life had already been determined. It was defeatist to me. I felt old, even though I was young. It's only now, when life feels undetermined, that I feel young.

Yes, Christianity has made its contributions to humanism. At least in the western world. To an extent. But it's not humanism itself and it never will be as long as it neglects some people for others. In this case girls being neglected for boys or gay people being neglected for straights. When I was Catholic, I was slowly coming to terms with my own bisexuality and then I realised I wasn't even allowed the determined family life. In good conscience, the next step for myself was to live like a hermit or celibate. As an only child, what am I going to have left when I'm old? The cat?

I'm tired of people dooming on the internet about rampant materialism and reaching the conclusion, "we need Jesus!" So much of Christianity thrives on its own form of materialism by telling you to work and breed, or as an alternative, be the pious fool. Christianity's message in this regard is no more optimistic than a very Nihilistic biology researcher on a smoke break. God's plan is bleak and chemical, based on the callings or vocations available to Christians.

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u/Whole_Maybe5914 — 16 days ago

My low-stakes Eco-Conspiracy is complete: the stingless, Golden Mastigias subspecies of Palau have been going extinct after 2023 or are significantly threatened, due to a stinging marine Mastigias species that has been introduced to the lake. This hasn't been reported by Palau or any NGO.

Fg. 1, before 2020 image of Mastigias; Fg. 2, 2026 image of Mastigias; Fg. 3, 2026 image of Mastigia individual; Fig. 4, differences between Golden Mastigia and a marine Mastigia; Fig. 5, Golden Mastigias with some marine characteristics? (see: cause of introduction, point 2); Fig. 6 recent Google review of the lake; Fig. 7 & 8, another before and after for dramatic effect, Fig 9, user on the Palau subreddit.

Introduction

Ongeim'l Tketau, or Jellyfish Lake in Palauan, is a 5.7 hectare marine lake on Mecherchar island in Palau. It is unique in that is has a subspecies of the Mastigias palau jellyfish, the Golden Mastigias (Mastigias palau etpisioni), endemic to the lake. Other lakes have similar subspecies, but it is Ongeim'l Tketau that has hitherto had the greatest population, and also the easiest population to access by tourists. The jellyfish follow a daily migration of rising and descending in their oxygenised layer of the stratified water column, depending on the sun needed to feed their symbiotic zooxanthellae, and uniquely have no stingers.

The Golden Mastigias have had several blows to their population in the last thirty or so years, due to El Niño events 1998, 2015-2016, and 2020-2023. When the water temperature gets too high, the zooxanthellae die and the Golden Mastigias lose their food source. However, they've usually bounced back. From what I've seen recently, however, this may not be the case. Foreign fish and anemones are previous invasive issues but a greater invasive issues may be a whole different type of jellyfish altogether. Something I haven't seen reported anywhere from any source.

Reasoning

  • Before the El Niño of 2020-2023, numbers did tend to ebb and flow but the Golden Mastigias retained that green-yellow hue, lacking the clubs of their spotted marine cousins, and a lack of spots on their exumbrella that is also found in their marine cousins. I've noticed that, on YouTube, as well as the most recent Google reviews of the lake, the Jellyfish do not fit this description. The Jellyfish hue is often significantly more orange, or even red in some pictures, indicating a lack of zooxanthellae. Both the red and golden individuals in recent videos and photographs seem to have the appearance of clubs, as well as spots on their exumbrellas. Surely this means they are not Golden Mastigias as described as a subspecies?
  • The Golden Mastigia is not the only jellyfish in the lake, granted. Aurelias, or Moon Jellyfish, also inhabit the lake, and they also have a unique genetic lineage. But there is not a single reference to there being the main Mastigia palau species being in the lake, alongside its subspecies endemic to the lake.

Cause of introduction

My layman's theories go as follows.

  • A tropical storm or underground caverns caused marine Mastigias palau to be deposited in the lake. The low numbers of the Golden Mastigia subspecies allowed for the marine Mastigias to populate in their place. How? The Golden Mastigias have died in the 1998, 2015-2016 and 2020-2023 El Niños due to the zooxanthellae algae dying in the high temperatures. The marine Mastigias are better adapted as they have stinging cells for predating on other life in the lake, meaning they have a food source that the Golden Mastigias do not.
  • The population of Golden Mastigias dropped from millions to just ~5,600 individuals for the entire lake. This genetic bottleneck has caused archaic features, such as the spots and clubs, to return and has allowed for individuals to survive when zooxanthellae symbiosis is no longer a reliable food source for the Golden Mastigias. The marine Mastigias palau have simply mutated and evolved back into existence in the lake.
  • (Most insidious, but also the hardest to pull off) tour operators noticed that tourists had become displeased by the low populations of Golden Mastigias and that now they'd face fewer sales. Marine Mastigias palau, as well as various Aurelia, have therefore been released artificially into the lake to artificially bump the numbers up for the tourists. The unforeseen (or foreseen but ignored) issue is that now the marine Mastigias palau are taking over.

Why am I the only person seeing this? Surely the IUCN, National Geographic, Palau, someone, would speak up. Yeah, I had a jellyfish fixation as a little kid but that doesn't mean I'm seeing something so unknown - that the Mastigias in the lake aren't the same Mastigias we should expect. Maybe researchers are on the case and there just hasn't been a public report yet. I'm pessimistic that the El Niño this year will be the nail in the coffin for any of the Golden Mastigias left, or rather any of the Golden Mastigias that have come to adapt in the way mentioned. Somehow it isn't the graphs or ice core evidence that sways me so much into believing that climate change is real. It's the jellyfish.

I've also noticed a difference in the water colour from before 2023 and now. It's gone from a healthy green from a cold blue, like you'd get in a nutrient-poor lake in Tibet. Wikipedia says that the Golden Mastigias and their migration is fundamental to the nutrients of the lake. Perhaps there has been a positive feedback between the decreasing Golden Mastigia population and worsening water quality. Why is the lake still open for tours if its sicker than ever?

u/Whole_Maybe5914 — 20 days ago

Anyone feels too spiritual for materialism, but too materialist for spiritualism?

I feel like I'm in this grey area where I go "pah" at the thought of worshipping deities, carrying talismans, having prayers beads, believing a 5,000 year old text was written by a mythical figure, etc. But at the same time, after reading popular science books too, too, much, you eventually come to the point where what we understand about reality comes to an end and philosophy has to take over; things begin to look like a black box.

Religious people say, "believe in the religion you think is right?" Then, why not make a religion about physics in itself? But the distinction between philosophy or a religion feels like its on a knife's edge when you try. And there's only so much physics can explain before you meet that exact same dead end.

There's a famous koan from a long dead Buddhist master that's relevant here: "10,000 things return to the One. Where does the One return?" According to the Seon meditative tradition of Korea, you're meant to sit with this in utter doubt until you break and that way you can see your true nature. Now I'm thinking every religion was invented to avoid that break from happening. If you think about it, creators of each system imaginable can go back to infinity. We used to pray to the creator of an earth, then the stars, then a galaxy, the universe. Now we think there may be a multiverse of multiplying realities and we have no idea whose idea that was and whose idea it was to make the one who had that idea. Like Russian dolls.

I was originally a science kid. Then my dad started to go evangelical and, even though he still maintained my interests (with some exceptions; some of my notes he used to destroy and he thought COVID was a punishment from God), I became more deistic just as he did, as all children who follow their parents' attitudes. Maybe the whole reason I crave certainty is the way I've been brought up. Hitherto I didn't have that same draw for there being a spiritual explanation.

I'm feeling very deep. My GP came back to me to say that I'm Vitamin D deficient again and that always puts me in a funk when it happens. Plus I'm listening to meditative Chinese music. After Christianity, I've stopped viewing other cultures as barbaric and now I'm on an ongoing Social Studies project.

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u/Whole_Maybe5914 — 21 days ago

The Gospel according to Q - the reconstructed Q source for Luke and Matthew.

Q|Encylopaedia Britannica

Q, in the study of biblical literature, a hypothetical Greek-language proto-Gospel that might have been in circulation in written form about the time of the composition of the Synoptic Gospels—Mark, Matthew, and Luke—approximately between 65 and ad 95. The name Q, coined by the German theologian and biblical scholar Johannes Weiss, is a reference to the German word Quelle (“source”).

Most biblical scholars agree that the authors of Matthew and Luke based their written accounts largely on The Gospel According to Mark. Matthew and Luke, however, both share a good deal of material—largely made up of logia (Greek: “sayings”) attributed to Jesus—that is absent from Mark. This led biblical scholars to hypothesize the existence of an undetermined source from which the shared material was drawn: Q, sometimes called the “lost source.” While no actual source document has been found and some scholars doubt that Q ever existed, others have attempted to reconstruct it through intensive textual analysis.

The Fifty Pericopes of the “Gospel of Q” based on Luke (RSV)

Prepared by Dr. James D. Tabor

3:7-9, 16b-17 [John the Baptist] said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bear fruits that befit repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, we have Abraham as our father’; for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children to Abraham. Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees; every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. I baptize you with water; but he who is mightier than I is coming, the thong of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie; he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. His winnowing fork is in his hand, to clear his threshing floor, and to gather the wheat into his granary, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”

3:10-14 And the multitudes asked him, “What then shall we do?” And he answered them, “He who has two coats, let him share with him who has none; and he who has food, let him do likewise.” Tax collectors also came to be baptized, and said to him, “Teacher, what shall we do?” And he said to them, “Collect no more than is appointed you.” Soldiers also asked him, “And we, what shall we do?” And he said to them, “Rob no one by violence or by false accusation, and be content with your wages.”

4:2b-12 He ate nothing in those days; and when they were ended, he was hungry. The devil said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command this stone to become bread.” Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone.” The devil took him up, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time, and said to him, “To you I will give all this authority and their glory; for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will, if you, then, will worship me, it shall all be yours.” And Jesus answered him, ‘It is written, ‘you shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.’” He took him to Jerusalem and set him on the pinnacle of the temple and said to him ‘If you are the Son of God throw yourself down from here; for it is written, ‘He will give his angels charge of you, to guard you, and on their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.’ ” Jesus answered him, “It is said, ‘you shall not tempt the Lord your God.”

6:20-23 Blessed are you poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. Blessed are you that hunger now, for you shall be satisfied. Blessed are you that weep now, for you shall laugh. Blessed are you when men hate you, and when they exclude you and revile you, and cast out your name as evil, on account of the Son of man! Rejoice in that day, and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is great in heaven; for so their fathers did to the prophets.

6: 25-26 But woe to you that are rich, for you have received your consolation. “Woe to you that are full now, for you shall hunger. “Woe to you that laugh now, for you shall mourn and weep. “Woe to you, when all men speak well of you, for so their fathers did to the false prophets.

6:27-37 But I say to you that hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. To him who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also; and from him who takes away your cloak do not withhold your coat as well. Give to every one who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again. As you wish that men would do to you, do so to them. If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. If you lend to those from whom you hope to receive what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to receive as much again. But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for he is kind to the ungrateful and the selfish. Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful.

6:37-42 Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven; and give and it will be given to you; good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For the measure you give will be the measure you get back.” Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit? A disciple is not above his teacher, but every one when he is fully taught will be like his teacher. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother’s eye.

6:43-45 For no good tree bears bad fruit, nor again does a bad tree bear good fruit; for each tree is known by its own fruit, For figs are not gathered from thorns, nor are grapes picked from a bramble bush. The good man out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil man out of his evil treasure produces evil; for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.

6:47-49 Every one who comes to me and hears my words and does them, I will show you what he is like: he is like a man building a house, who dug deep, and built the foundation upon rock; and when a flood arose, the stream broke against that house, and could not shake it, because it had been well built. But he who hears and does not do them is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation, against which the stream broke, and immediately it fell, and the ruin of that house was great.

7:2-3, 6-10 A centurion had a slave who was dear to him who was sick and at the point of death. When he heard of Jesus he sent to him elders of the Jews, asking him to come and heal his slave. Jesus went with them. When he was not far from the house, the centurion sent friends to him, saying to him, Lord do not trouble yourself, for I am not worthy to have you come under my roof; therefore I did not presume to come to you. But say the word, and let my servant be healed. For I am a man set under authority, with soldiers under me: and I say to one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and to another, ‘come,’ and he comes; and to my slave, ‘Do this,’ and he does it,” when Jesus heard this he marveled at him, and turned and said to the multitude that followed him, ‘I tell you, not even in Israel have I found such faith.” When those who had been sent returned to the house, they found the slave well.

7:18-23 The disciples of John told him all these things. John calling to him two of his disciples, sent them to the Lord, saying, ‘Are you he who is to come, or shall we look for another?” When the men had come to him, they said, John the Baptist has sent us to you, saying, Are you he who is to come or shall we look for another?’ In that hour he cured many of diseases and plagues and evil spirits, and on many that were blind he bestowed sight. He answered them, “Go and tell John what you have seen and heard; the blind receive their sight, the lame walk, lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, the poor have good news preached to them, and blessed is he who takes no offense at me.”

7:24-35 When the messengers of John had gone, he began to speak to the crowds concerning John: What did you go out into the wilderness to behold? A reed shaken by the wind? What then did you go out to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? Behold, those who are gorgeously appareled and live in luxury are in kings’ courts. What then did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet. This is he of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, who shall prepare thy way before thee. I tell you, among those born of women none is greater than John; yet he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he. To what shall I compare the men of this generation, and what are they like? They are like children sitting in the market place and calling to one another, We piped to you, and you did not dance; we wailed, and you did not weep. John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine; and you say, He has a demon.’ The Son of man has come eating and drinking; and you say, Behold, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Wisdom is justified by all her children.”

9:57-62 As they were going along the road, a man said to him, “I will follow you wherever you go.” And Jesus said to him, “Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man has nowhere to lay his head.” To another he said, “Follow me.” But he said, “Lord, let me first go and bury my father.” But he said to him, “Leave the dead to bury their own dead; but as for you, go and proclaim the kingdom of God.” Another said, “I will follow you, Lord; but let me first say farewell to those at my home.” Jesus said to him, “No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.”

10:2-12 He said to them, The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few; pray therefore the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest. Go your way; behold, I send you out as lambs in the midst of wolves. Carry no purse, no bag, no sandals; salute no one on the road. Whatever house you enter, first say, ‘Peace be to this house!’ And if a son of peace is there, your peace shall rest upon him; but if not, it shall return to you. Remain in the same house, eating and drinking what they provide, for the laborer deserves his wages. Do not go from house to house. Whenever you enter a town and they receive you, eat what is set before you; heal the sick in it and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you. Whenever you enter a town and they do not receive you, go into its streets and say: ‘Even the dust of your town that clings to our feet, we wipe off against you; nevertheless know this, that the kingdom of God has come near.’ I tell you, it shall be more tolerable on that day for Sodom than for that town.

10:13-15 Woe to you, Chorazin! woe to you, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. But it shall be more tolerable in the judgment for Tyre and Sidon than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You shall be brought down to Hades.

10:16 He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.

10:21-22 He rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and said, ‘I thank thee, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to babes; yea, Father, for such was thy gracious will. All things have been delivered to me by my Father; and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, or who the Father is except the Son and any one to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.’

10:23-24 Blessed are the eyes which see what you see! For I tell you that many prophets and kings desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

11:2-4 When you pray, say, ‘Father, hallowed be thy name, Thy kingdom come. Give us each day our daily bread; and forgive us our sins, for we ourselves forgive every one who is indebted to us; and lead us not into temptation.’

11:9-13 Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. Everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. What father among you, if his son asks for a fish, will instead of a fish give him a serpent; or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!

11:14-21 Now he was casting out a demon that was dumb; when the demon had gone out, the dumb man spoke, and the people marveled. But some of them said, “He casts out demons by Beelzebub, the prince of demons”; while others, to test him, sought from him a sign from heaven. But he, knowing their thoughts, said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and a divided household falls. And if Satan also is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? For you say that I cast out demons by Beelzebub. And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace;

11:24-26 When the unclean spirit has gone out of a man, he passes through waterless places seeking rest; and finding none he says, I will return to my house from which I came.’ When he comes he finds it swept and put in order. Then he goes and brings seven spirits more evil than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first.
11:29b-32 This generation is an evil generation; it seeks a sign, but no sign shall be given to it except the sign of Jonah. As Jonah became a sign to the men of Nineveh, so will the Son of man be to this generation. The queen of the South will arise at the judgment with the men of this generation and condemn them; for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and behold, something greater than Solomon is here. The men of Nineveh will arise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.

11:33-36 No one after lighting a lamp puts it in a cellar or under a bush, but on a stand, that those who enter may see the light. Your eye is the lamp of your body; when your eye is sound, your whole body is full of light; but when it is not sound, your body is full of darkness. Therefore be careful lest the light in you be darkness. If then your whole body is full of light, having no part dark, it will be wholly bright, as when a lamp with its rays gives you light.

11:39-40, 42-43 You Pharisees cleanse the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside you are full of extortion and wickedness. to You fools! Did not he who made the outside make the inside also? Woe to you Pharisees! for you tithe mint and rue and every herb, and neglect justice and the love of God; these you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. Woe to you Pharisees! for you love the best seat in the synagogues and salutations in the Market places.

11:46-52 Woe to you lawyers also! for you load men with burdens hard to bear, and you yourselves do not touch the burdens with one of your fingers. Woe to you for you build the tombs of the prophets whom your fathers killed. So you are witnesses and consent to the deeds of your fathers; they killed them, and you build their tombs. The Wisdom of God said, “I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and persecute,’ that the blood of all the prophets, shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, it shall be required of this generation. Woe to you lawyers! for you have taken away the key of knowledge; you did not enter yourselves and you hindered those who were entering.

12:2-3 Nothing is covered up that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. Whatever you have said in the dark shall be heard in the light, and what you have whispered in private rooms shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.

12:4-5 I tell you, my friends, do not fear those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I tell you fear him!

12:6-7 Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? And not one of them is forgotten before God. Why even the hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not; you are of more value than many sparrows.

12:8-10 I tell you, every one who acknowledges me before men, the Son of man also will acknowledge before the angels of God; but he who denies me before men will be denied before the angels of God. Every one who speaks a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

12:11-12 When they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not be anxious how or what you are to answer or what you are to say; for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say.

12:22-31 Do not be anxious about your life, what you shall eat nor about your body, what you shall put on. Life is more than food, and the body more than clothing. Consider the ravens, they neither sow nor reap. they have neither storehouse nor barn, and yet God feeds them. Of how much more value are you than the birds! Which of you by being anxious can add a cubit to his span of life? If then you are not able to do as small a thing as that, why are you anxious about the rest? Consider the lilies, how they grow; they neither toil nor spin; yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. But if God so clothes the grass which is alive in the field today and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, how much more will he clothe you, O men of little faith! Do not seek what you are to eat and what you are to drink, nor be of anxious mind. For all the nations of the world seek these things; and your Father knows that you need them. Instead seek his kingdom, and these things shall be yours as well.

12:33-34 Sell your possessions, and give alms; provide your selves with purses that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

12:39-40 If the householder had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would have been awake and would not have let his house to be broken into, you also must be ready; for the Son of man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

12:42-46 The Lord said, ‘Who then is the faithful and wise steward, whom his master will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the proper time? Blessed is that servant whom his master when he comes will find so doing. Truly I tell you, he will set him over all his possessions. But if that servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed in coming,’ and begins to beat the menservants and the maidservants, and to eat and drink and get drunk, the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will punish him, and put him with the unfaithful.

12:51-53 Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division; for henceforth in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three; they will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against her mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.

12:57-59 Why do you not judge for yourselves what is right? As you go with your accuser before the magistrate, make an effort to settle with him on the way, lest he drag you to the judge, and the judge hand you over to the officer, and the officer put you in prison. I tell you, you will never get out till you have paid the very last copper.

13:20-21 He said, “To what shall I compare the kingdom of God? It is like leaven which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till it was all leavened.”

13:24 Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

13:25-29 When once the householder has risen up and shut the door, you will begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us.’ He will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from,’ Then you will begin to say, we ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ But he will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you come from; depart from me, all you workers of iniquity!’ You will weep and gnash your teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God and you yourselves thrust out. Men will come from east and west, and from north and south, and sit at table in the kingdom of God.

13:34-35 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! Behold, your house is forsaken. I tell you, you will not see me until you say, Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!”

14:16-23 A man once gave a great banquet, and invited many and at the time of the banquet he sent his servant to say to those who had been invited, ‘Come for all is now ready.’ But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said to him, ‘I have bought a field, and I must go out and see it; I pray you, have me excused.’ And another said, ‘I have bought a yoke of oxen, I pray you, have me excused,’ And another said, ‘I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.’ So the servant came and reported this to his master. Then the householder in anger said to his servant, Go out quickly to the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in the poor and maimed and blind and lame,’ And the servant said, ‘Sir, what you commanded has been done, and still there is room. The master said to the servant, ‘Go out to the highways and hedges, and compel people to come in, that my house may be filled.

14:26-27 If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

14:34-35 Salt is good; but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is fit neither for the land nor for the dunghill; men throw it away. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

15:4-10 What man among you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost, until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. When he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost.’ Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance. Or what woman, having ten silver coins, if she loses one coin, does not light a lamp and sweep the house and seek diligently until she finds it? And when she has found it, she calls together her friends and neighbors, saying, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found the coin which I had lost.’ Just so, I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

16:13 No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.

16:16 The law and the prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and every one enters it violently.

16:17 It is easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for one dot of the law to become void.

17:1 Temptations to sin are sure to come; but woe to him by whom they come!

17:3-4 If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him; and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, and says, ‘I repent,’ you must forgive him.

17:5-6 The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith!” The Lord said, “If you had faith as a grain of mustard seed, you could say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be rooted up, and be planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you.”

17:23-37 And they will say to you, ‘Lo, there!’ or ‘Lo, here!’ Do not go, do not follow them. For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of man be in his day. But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of man. They ate, they drank, they married, they were given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. Likewise as it was in the days of Lot – they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built, but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all – so will it be on the day when the Son of man is revealed. On that day, let him who is on the housetop, with his goods in the house, not come down to take them away; and likewise let him who is in the field not turn back. Remember Lot’s wife. Whoever seeks to gain his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life will preserve it. I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. There will be two women grinding together; one will be taken and the other left.” And they said to him, “Where, Lord?” He said to them, “Where the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”

19:12-13, 15-26 He said to them, “A nobleman went into a far country to receive kingly power and then return. Calling ten of his servants, he gave them ten pounds, and said to them, ‘Trade with these till I come.’ When he returned, having received the kingly power, he commanded these servants to whom he had given the money, to be called to him, that he might know what they had gained by trading. The first came before him saying ‘Lord, your pound has made ten pounds more.’ And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant! Because you have been faithful in a very little, you shall have authority over ten cities.’ The second came, saying, ‘Lord, your pound has made five pounds,’ He said to him; ‘And you are to be over five cities.’ Then another came, saying, ‘Lord here is your pound, which I kept laid away in a napkin; for I was afraid of you, because you are a severe man; you take up what you did not lay down, and reap what you did not sow.’ He said to him, ‘I will condemn you out of your own mouth, you wicked servant! You knew that I was a severe man, taking up what I did not lay down and reaping what I did not sow? Why then did you not put my money into the bank, and at my coming I should have collected it with interest?’ He said to those who stood by, ‘Take the pound from him, and give it to him who has ten pounds.’ They said to him, ‘Lord, he has ten pounds!’ I tell you, that to every one who has more will be given; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away.

22:28-30 You are those who have continued with me in my trials; as my Father appointed a kingdom for me, so do I appoint for you that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

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u/Whole_Maybe5914 — 24 days ago

I think smartphones are making our lives genuinely shorter but not in the way you think.

I'm not normally a conspiracy person (although I do watch stuff like the History Channel, Sci channel, Discovery, etc), but I just need somewhere to rant about this with people who won't be contrarian or make stupid sex jokes to distract from the issue.

I'm Gen Z but I've been feeling very Luddite. I've noticed time has picked up pace quite a bit since COVID when my screen use went through the roof. Yeah, OK, I'm older by... A couple years? But I'm still a young person. It's not like I'm eighty: Jesus...

I've noticed that, on the times I've been on holiday and my screen use has only been ~30 mins a day, or for a period when my smartphone broke and I was using either a hand-me-down or a Nokia brick, time was significantly slower. Now, time doesn't slow down subjectively for me just when I stop using my phone for a few minutes. I have to detox before the effect has to kick in. Then, time starts to run at a snail's pace, like how a 1 hour maths class used to feel at school. In June, I was almost able to achieve the same effect with an app that places restrictions on addictive apps but, hey, I'm addicted.

I'm not the only person who keeps track of time. I went to the YT channel of my old workplace and during an important event, I even caught my old fashioned boss (who could be a real dick sometimes about modern stuff) miss a cue because he was scrolling away, and he was caught unawares. My own mum is very intelligent, when she's scrolling Facebook or IG reels, she just stares gormlessly at her screen for hours and then later complains she has no free time after work, even though she spent all her free time watching AI slop. I'll concede, I'm being hypocritical as I have the same issue. I wake up to my phone, I spend 11 hours at work on a computer which burns my retinas out, when I go home to watch TV while being on my phone. All while time just zips by. An hour feels like 15 minutes. 5 hours feels like an hour.

Physicists have known for at least a century that time is not an objective constant. It changes depending on your speed, your mass, whatever. And time also passes subjectively depending on the person. I think phones are genuinely speeding up time for the rest of us. By taking away our free time for doing normal human things like talking or playing crosswords, it means our life is shorter. As time speeds up, our lives become shorter. We are continuously stimulated, never having new experiences, yet also never allowed to become bored. Life then just glides by. Now that I no longer go on big trips with my late dad, and now I'm just stuck on screens my whole waking life, my memory has turned to mush and my dreams sterile.

Not sure what fallacy this is, but to make phones seem even worse, I'm not sure all the blue light is that worse for you. My visual snow became worse significantly after COVID, but it did improve during the periods I wasn't glued to the phone.

In conclusion, my father was right. It was the damn phone. I'd stick with the Nokia for good if it wasn't for WhatsApp and Google Maps. I'm just so addicted as well.

u/Whole_Maybe5914 — 27 days ago

Naïve critiques of mainstream Christianity that are... pretty good, actually; better than what Christians give them credit for

"Why does this church have a gift shop? Wasn't Jesus against that kind of thing?"

I mean, yeah. Churches, at least in Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Anglicanism, and other mainline denominations, are essentially meant to be the equivalent of the new temple formed by Jesus. Why sell things there, then? Jesus was decrying commerce in a very holy part of the temple, but in plenty of churches, the gift shop is in the very place of worship rather than being outside. Of course a church needs money to stay afloat, but the earliest Christians were ascetics and the earliest clergy were expected to wander from place to place, living off the picky bits people gave to them.

"If God is so good, why do bad things happen?"

  • OK, so evil is just the absence of good. Right... But why is good only distinguishable by its opposite; if God made everything as it is, why couldn't he have made good in a way that it can't ever be absent?
  • OK, so evil is to do for free will. Why couldn't God have made it so free will can exist in a world with just good if he made all things?
  • OK, so evil is to do with morally strengthening us. Dunno why a baby with terminal cancer needs moral strengthening, but oh well.
  • OK, so evil exists so God can triumph over it in the end to glorify himself. Sick bastard. That's why Gnosticism was invented! - Jesus...

For the first two, a Thomist will tell you: "it's just illogical, of course good can't exist by itself. It's illogical to imagine good for humanity without free will." But then that means forms such as good or free will exist outside of what God has created; the former could be explained (maybe, it's a stretch) with God being good already, perhaps without creating it, but that would mean free will exists as a form outside of God entirely. Does God exist independently of good and free will, then? Is he working with what was given to him, meaning he's not omnipotent or didn't create all things? Theologians have wrestled with this thing for centuries but it's very obvious that the Problem of Evil hasn't quite been solved yet.

Well I have solved it. but it involves the heresy of Audianism and essentially makes humanity's creation by Jesus necessary as part of his existence by contingency, which effectively means Jesus wouldn't have the choice to create humanity which is... Weird. It does mean though that it wasn't his choice to make humanity suffer because he's contingent on it to exist himself as a human without incarnation. In any case, Audianism was part of a Pre-Nicene Syrian Christian tradition that's been dead for 1,500 years.

"If the Bible is true, why does Genesis go against science?"

Perhaps it's allegorical. Philo seems to have leaned that way. Also an Alexandrian, Origen also believed so. And Augustine was willing to give a little leeway when it came to the length of the days. But for mainstream Christians, for most of their history up to the Enlightenment period, Genesis was real history. Adam, Eve, Seth and friends were all real people and, even in modern times, the Roman Catholic church will not shift from Adam and Eve being real historical figures; there are various pseudoscientific theories for fitting Adam and Eve into the evolution of man. Why has Christianity decided to shift gears when a part of the big book seems to not have been as correct as once believed? Yes, there have been Christian scientists. But that just goes to show Christian scientists are compatible with science, not that the Christian book is compatible with science.

"The Old Testament has a lot of bad bits in."

Yeah... Christians will say this was God trying to curb the bad behaviour of the Israelites but, at several verses, it seems God is behaving worse! And, why couldn't he find a more efficient way of intervention for his chosen people? With the Old Testament now seeming to be more myth than fact, I guess some of the violent sections can be interpreted purely theologically: I guess... I don't know where the theological message is in the part where God tells a priest to conduct a water-dust abortion to figure out if she's committed adultery or not, but - again - oh well. This is sort of like English teacher exegesis where you're forced to read a lot more into what is actually there.

"Paul is dodgy."

OK so most scholars believe that Paul did not take over Christianity. Some doctrines, like the divinity of Jesus, even the hymn to Jesus in Philippians, predate Paul in Christianity. Paul is not responsible for introducing a hierarchy to the church. Paul also perhaps didn't intend to create antinomianism, but was working with early pre-Talmudic Noahidic categories. However, Paul's deterministic soteriology, comparable to that in texts from Qumran, contrasts with the non-Pauline New Testament texts. Paul may have also been running with a pre-Talmudic Merkabah or Hekhalot tradition for much of his theology, which he would've believed had given him legitimacy (to himself, mind you) as a mystic upon receiving his vision.

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u/Whole_Maybe5914 — 1 month ago

Long-running symptom I've noticed after looking at TV static: the sensation that you're not actually seeing (what I like to call "phantom blindness")

I've noticed, after trying TV static apps for a bit, is that I have a brief moment where my visual POV looks more "real" than usual.

I've come to the conclusion that, since my VSS intensified about four years ago now, I've had this strange feeling that my vision isn't my own or that I'm not actually seeing. Like my eyes are closed but I can still see the image of my field of vision. It's very difficult to describe so I've come up with the term "phantom blindness" to describe the feeling that what you're seeing isn't your full sight, when it actually is. Almost like what you're seeing is not with your eyes but actually a camera. You feel like you're not seeing, but you are.

Does anyone have the same thing?

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u/Whole_Maybe5914 — 3 months ago

Has anyone been very devout without needing a religious dream? Why do I still feel bad for not having any?

I must admit, I have been reading material from religious people online, particularly from my guilty pleasure, TikTok, which I've had to put an hour's limit on.

I've noticed there's a very common conversion or reassurance experience where a cynical individual suddenly becomes Christian or makes a fortunate life decision after seeing Jesus, Mary, Joseph and friends in a dream. This echoes real life conversations where people talk about visions and what not.

I've never had a religious dream. My dreams can be quite vivid but they have never been religious. I've dreamt of churches, my brain anxiously reinterpreting my memories of getting Chinese burns, finger pulls, or having my heels trodden on by other English choirboys, but nothing supernatural at all. Each dream is set on earth in a vaguely British or Mediterranean setting because that's what I know.

I was mildly jealous for not having a religious dream when I was religious but now I wonder if the lack of a religious dream says something about myself or other people who deconstruct. Maybe the selves or archetypes we have clash against the religions the ego puts us through.

What I also wonder is that if one of my issues with Christianity is there's a division between the divines, those God have revealed things to and are instructed to preach in authority, and the hylic ones like myself who run off of guilt or emotion and won't contribute much except tithes for the ones on top. It's probably why my deconstruction has been so focused towards trying to find issues in the authority of Paul, Church Patristics (not often criticised but should be more often) and modern denominations of all types: I'm tired of the inequality of the earth, run by middle aged men; why should I have an unequal religion, formulated, politicked and argued over by middle aged men?

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u/Whole_Maybe5914 — 3 months ago