You might think someone as soft and sensitive as Michael Jackson wouldn’t be thrill seeker behind wheel. At first seeing no reason to learn to drive he found himself having a lot of fun with it. Even if it wasn’t fun for a lot of the passengers!!
I think that even though our society is in a positive direction regarding the de stigmatization of mental health, we aren’t there yet. And how people talk about celebrities, especially dead ones who can’t speak for themselves, shows us that. I’m not saying everyone who speculates on the mental health of Michael Jackson is doing so in a stigmatizing way. Far from it. This sub is a nice haven from that. But a lot of people use his mental health struggles as a criticism and insult in and of itself. And that’s not okay. People love to call him crazy because their mental health struggles either manifest differently or they for now don’t meet the criteria for any disorder. But mental health isn’t much different from physical health. Everyone is on a spectrum of engaging in various cognitive distortions and biases just like everyone is on a spectrum of how well they take care of their physical health. There are many mental illnesses just like physical illness that can be developed by anyone at anytime given the right circumstances. I know no one in this sub is going to be unkind about MJ’s mental health. But it’s still important to talk about.
I just want to come on here to write a reminder that a lot of the struggles we speculate that Michael dealt with are things that living people reading these articles might be dealing with too. Things like Complex PTSD, depression, borderline personality disorder, Substance Use Disorder etc. If you believe Michael was also a predator then of course there’s no excuse for that. This post isn’t meant to debate innocence or guilt. So please don’t get into that in the comments. It’s just that, when discussing anything else, I believe it’s important to remember that many of the disorders themselves are disorders relatively common in the current human population. It can be tempting to analyze celebrities, especially dead ones, like pointing and laughing at circus figures. I’m not saying I see too much of that in here specifically, but when talking about a celebrity it’s easy to distance yourself and forget that there are people currently alive to read these things. I just want to remind everyone that mental illness doesn’t indicate that someone is crazy. And it’s not something to distance yourself from. Just like physical illness some mental illnesses can be developed by anyone at anytime with the right trigger. And everyone engages in cognitive distortions on a day to day basis. Even if they are mild and not enough to cause a disorder at this moment.
Please don’t take this as an accusation that mental health stigma is already widespread in the sub. But I have seen the occasional concerning framing of it and I just want to offer a reminder for people to get ahead of it. It’s great to analyze celebrities but just remember that regular people often have similar issues too. Let’s try not to distance ourselves so much that we view those with mental illness as a spectacle entirely separate from us. And let’s try not to use specific disorders or the word “crazy” or the term “mentally ill” as insults in and of themselves. Criticizing behavior that harms others is different from using mental illness as an insult in and of itself.
Hi! I’m the mod that created this space. I am someone who is prone to social media breaks and just needing to take a step back. So that’s why I haven’t been as active. I just want to remind everyone that primarily I want this sub to be about deep dives and not commonly known facts as well as debunking common myths. This includes but is not limited to allegations. Discussing Michael’s psychology is welcome and encouraged as well. Go ahead and repost anything of that nature that you write about here to r/RealPsychologyofMJ That’s a specialized sub for psychology while this one is a general sub to unpack anything you want.
While venting is not the main purpose of this sub and can get off topic, it’s hard to do on most MJ subs so I will allow it here. I’ll try to get some post flairs set up for you all to use!
Edit: just a reminder that if you need to vent make sure there’s no identifying information about any individuals or communities. Including usernames.
I have shared this post from a Twitter user with you with the names of individual communities censored.
This story highlights the true motivation behind MJ's most ardent detractors. As well as the cult adjacent behavior. But it also reveals how fan behaviour can be inappropriate as well. Therefore, I ask that you use this for information purposes only.
Do not try to discern who any of the communities named are and do not try to brigade or harass anyone. The mission of this subreddit is to rationally present the truth and discuss credible theories about misunderstood concepts regarding Michael Jackson. Let this post be a message to us to all take the high ground.
I have shared this post from a Twitter user with you with the names of individual communities censored. This story highlights the true motivation behind MJ’s most ardent detractors. As well as the cult adjacent behavior. But it also reveals how fan behaviour can be inappropriate as well. Therefore, I ask that you use this for information purposes only. Do not try to discern who any of the communities named are and do not try to brigade or harass anyone. The mission of this subreddit is to rationally present the truth and discuss credible theories about misunderstood concepts regarding Michael Jackson. Let this post be a message to us to all take the high ground.
I've been seeing people on this subreddit talk about how Michael thought black people were ugly. I think it is a disgusting misinterpretation (possibly on purpose) of what Michael was really trying to say with this letter.
"Throughout history, White men have always branded the pages of history with great White hopes, putting Whites over Blacks as nobles. Elvis as the king of rock and roll, Springsteen as the Boss, or the Beatles as the best. Yes, these guys were good, but they weren't better singers or dancers than the Blacks. The difference is White control of the press and media, making the public believe whatever they want. (Written in red) Plus, a lot of Blacks have been ugly to look at. You MUST be beautiful.
I will change this with my songs, dance, looks, and total reclusiveness. I will rule as the king. I am not prejudiced; it's just time for the first Black king now"
If you read the whole thing, it is clearly criticizing how whites are able to control the narratives on black people. It is literally just a fact that white people have been devaluing the influence black people have had on music, and yes, they have even influenced the way nlack people have been visually perceived.
The two sentences written in red are obviously written from the perspective of the average racist mind, not Michael's actual thoughts. And it doesn't make any sense for him to just write abkut how black people are ugly out of nowhere when for most of the letter he's praising black people and talking about how white people control the media.
It's just something that's been really bothering me, seeing people misinterpret this letter and look at it with bad faith because of their biased view of Michael.
I have tried listening to this many times. I don’t like how much hate this song gets. I can’t fully relate because while I had adverse childhood experiences, I had a childhood. I can’t imagine practically having none at all. And I’m trying hard to get into his shoes. The lyrics that break my heart are:
“Before you judge me, try hard to love me”
I thought this was a really good comprehensive analysis. It covers both why MJ’s genuinely innocent childlike side was extremely plausible and why the leaving Neverland claims line up with real abuse patterns. Now, this video doesn’t decide anything. And the abuse pattern claims from the documentary being accurate don’t necessarily mean those patterns did happen. But regardless of what you believe this is all good education for anyone genuinely wanting to know the psychology of Michael Jackson or the psychology of abuse.
I think that Michael had multiple different competing ideas of his own race. He explicitly took after Black music and was proud to be a Black artist. However, he did want to shrink his nose to be more and more Eurocentric. I don’t believe he was doing this on purpose. But it does reflect internalized racism. On the other hand, he has never lightened his skin with the purpose of becoming white. He had vitiligo and the creams he used were created to even out the skin tone for people with vitiligo. I think A Michael able to embrace the blotches would’ve been very inspiring. But he was just too self conscious for that. And the makeup required to keep his original tone would’ve been astronomical. So, I don’t fault him for the lightened skin. But I do acknowledge the nose shrinking, while related to his father’s bullying, was also internalized racism.
While this sub is a safe place to discuss and debunk the allegations, I would like to take a week to generate content about the beautiful human Michael was without thinking of those things. Unfortunately we will always have to consider them and discuss the reality of them because those who hate him will not let them go. However, I want to occasionally reserve some time for just focusing on Michael and what HE wants to be remembered for. I won’t delete allegation debunking posts. I just ask that we try for the next week to focus on his music, philanthropy, and his heart.
On this anniversary of MJ’s death let’s reflect on what Michael wants most out of his memory. I think it would be his artistic prowess, his heart, his empathy, and his ability to be himself in a world that thought he was overwhelmingly strange.
[Let me explain] I have noticed that a lot of the things that the general public talks about when it comes to the false allegations are misconceptions (because they don't have deeper knowledge about him). Beyond looking at the court documents, one thing that really speaks volumes about Michael's innocence is his videos (playing with kids, how he interacted with people in Neverland, how playful he was, videos of him visiting children in the hospital, videos of him with his children...). That shows how innocent, lovely and joyful his relationship with children were, and how he dealt with adults also.
Another thing is: people that think Michael was gay should see the videos where he interacted with female fans, videos of him talking about women. He was respectful of women in general, because he did not like how his brothers used to sleep around when they were younger.
Also, the Glenda tapes: he talks about relationships with women, very very clearly, have you seen guilters mention those tapes? He talked about women SO MANY TIMES, in many situations. With the Rabi, in the early 2000s, he talked about his divorce with Lisa Marie...
I just feel like these aspects are overlooked by the general public when it comes to understanding his behavior more. I don't claim that I (or us as a fandom), had a personal relationship with him, but I am saying that we recognize behaviors, habits that were consistent his whole life (the kindness, the playfulness, the innocence of his art and his charity work, being non-confrontational, as well as always demonstrating respect and interest towards women). He was not perfect, but I would say that his good will and kind attitude were things that could not be faked and are really consistent across people that interacted with him and his public life.
Wercome to ine growing archive or primary resources, documents, and credible analysis regarding the Michael Jackson allegations.
This megathread is a living document designed to centralize court transcripts, official records, and honest, well-sourced media. While the categories and headings will evolve as the archive expands, the goal is to start building a comprehensive index now.
How you can help build this thread:
If you have ideas for a separate mega thread for a separate topic you may also drop that below!
Documentaries
Note: if a video has an IMDB profile this thread will consider it a documentary. If it does not, it will go under interviews or video essays.
Tabloid Truth: The Michael Jackson Story (PBS Frontline)
The Jury Speaks Episode 2 (App download is required but it is free with ads)
Michael Jackson: Chase the Truth (App download is required but it is free with ads)
Interviews
Scott Ross (PI) on Janet Arvizo
Video Essays
The Michael Jackson Trial: One of the Most Shameful Episodes in Journalistic History
Never Everland: The real story about Wade Robson and Michael Jackson
Official Documents
Letter from the Michael Jackson Estate to HBO
Seminars
A really nice interview from Brett Barnes. What sticks out to me is that Brett confirms he was never isolated from his parents. And explains the stress of being someone who knew Michael as a child and refuses to accuse him of any wrongdoing. People hound him so much it would explain why more people who knew him as a child aren’t speaking up.
If you want to catch us during our read through of Moonwalk now is the time to join!! DM me for link! It’s on Fable!
I think it’s my favorite yet! It’s so hard to pick a favorite!
I love SOS, Over my Head, and Bad Day so much!
Here’s the full track listing if you want to get it!
Track
Song title
Artist(s)
BH100 chart position
Length
1
S.O.S.
Rihanna
#1
3:59
2
Temperature
Sean Paul
#1
3:36
3
Ridin'
Chamillionaire feat. Krayzie Bone
#1
4:03
4
Check on It
Beyoncé
#1
3:29
5
Yo (Excuse Me Miss)
Chris Brown
#7
3:48
6
Ms. New Booty
Bubba Sparxxx
#7
3:20
7
I'm n Luv (wit a Stripper)
T-Pain feat. Mike Jones
#5
3:45
8
Poppin' My Collar
Three 6 Mafia
#21
2:56
9
When You're Mad
Ne-Yo
#15
3:37
10
What's Left of Me
Nick Lachey
#6
4:04
11
Bad Day
Daniel Powter
#1
3:49
12
Over My Head (Cable Car)
The Fray
#8
3:55
13
For You I Will (Confidence)
Teddy Geiger
#29
3:46
14
Walk Away
Kelly Clarkson
#12
3:06
15
Black Horse and the Cherry Tree
KT Tunstall
#20
2:50
16
Girl Next Door
Saving Jane
#31
3:22
17
Let U Go
Ashley Parker Angel
#12
3:36
18
Move Along
The All-American Rejects
#15
3:58
19
Savin' Me
Nickelback
#19
3:37
20
Tonight I Wanna Cry
Keith Urban
He’s rarely talked about. But he might be the most loyal friend Michael ever had.
https://truemichaeljackson.webnode.cz/more-about-michael/bill-bray/
I’d start with the 17th Doctor and halfway through the season they are still struggling to get along with their companion. At some point the Doctor opens up and explains that they once got so close to someone their subconscious caused them to regenerate with their face. It was highly traumatic. They talk about Rose briefly in a way that makes sense to a completely new audience. Kind of like the time war. They just have to explain this is someone they loved very deeply and will always miss. They don’t even have to say her name. The new companion says they can’t take Rose’s place but they can be a new sort of friend and want to forge their own unique relationship with the Doctor. They encourage the Doctor to talk about Rose when they need to rather than push the memory down in a way that will cause it to erupt later (these discussions don’t have to happen onscreen at all). They bond over it and get closer. New companion suggests the Doctor learn to control their regenerations better and the Doctor finally does just that because they understand it is a valuable skill. They learn to control their regenerations like Romana and the next face is a choice and not random. Now this incident can be used to progress the Doctor as a character. They take more agency over themselves and their own life and go forward with more purpose on who they want to become.
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