u/scottasin12343

A little bit of a changeup from the usual discussion on here... I'd guess that despite the usual tendency to discuss classical pieces/compositions that there's probably a lot of us who really enjoy his music in this sub. A friend asked me what I thought his most well written song was last night and I was able to narrow it down to three songs (and I still had to knock several favorites off the list)... I wound up with Boxing, Narcolepsy, and Hospital Song. They aren't by any means his most impressive piano playing, but they've got IMO his best match of awesome lyrics to the feel of the music that goes with them.

My biggest complaint from the past couple of years is that its felt like Mike and Page weren't really syncing up with eachother, rather they were both following Trey without really creating a cohesive groove underneath. During this last weekend, even during jams not featuring the mini-kit, it seemed like the band was more cohesive in trying to create a foundation for the jam before Trey stepped up to lead lines and melodic themes. Like, it felt like in early summer the band was trying to decorate a house before it was done being built, but during the Dick's run they were doing a good job of building the foundation and framework first and THEN expanding upon that. Rather than having jams where the underlying chord progression was the main thing tying them together without an actual underlying groove having been created, now they're focusing on coming up with something cohesive rhythmically first. It gives Trey a better space to work his magic, he doesn't have to direct the jam from the space of a soloist, he's able to let Mike, Fish, and Page come up with something unique and cohesive for him to solo over and then steps in to create a melody.

All around I felt like Dick's consistently had more cohesive and less 'noodly' jams than earlier this year (and the past couple of years). They're being approached with a different intent and feeling like the full band working together as one, and less like 3 people following one leader.

I've noticed that in the frequent "how do you rank the seasons" threads we have in here that season 6 seems to get the most polarized placements, or is the least agreed upon in its quality. There are a lot of people who put it all the way at the bottom, and often times clarify that its far worse than their next least favorite, but there are also a lot of people who rank it above some of the original three seasons, which almost always take the top 3 spots... sometimes even putting season 6 as their favorite or second favorite season of the show. People don't seem to have as strong of opinions about season 5, whereas season 6 seems to be 'either you love it or you hate it'.

We tend to get less in the weeds about our tones than guitar players, but every recording and every player winds up having a sonewhat different tone, whether its an intentional choice on the player's part, the producer/mix engineer, or just happenstance due to the sound of their personal instrument and its level of upkeep. What are some of your favorites?

Wurli:

Goodbye Stranger - Supertramp. Loterally the sound I hear in my head when I think of a Wurlitzer. It has the upper end of the EQ spectrum that really is THE thing that makes a Wurli sound great to me.

End Of The World Party - Medeski Martin & Wood. Medeski just knows how to use a heavily overdriven sound and make it incredible. Its pretty ubiquitous to his sound with other EPs/B3 too. He gets it to growl, snarl, and sing, and its just nasty. I love it.

Rhodes MK1:

Chameleon - Herbie Hancock. Just the right amount of muffled roundness mixed with upper end bark when he leans into it. Again, like Supertramp, its a definitive sound for me, its just what a MK1 sounds like in my head (and I hope I'm not wrong about it being an MK1, lol)

Riders On The Storm - The Doors. A more mellow sound, but just lush and gorgeous, fits the mood of the song perfectly.

Page McConnell - Phish. I was obsessive with Phish for years, Page plays an MK1 Suitcase through a Maestro Phase Shifter, most noteably on their version of 2001 A Space Oddity (the original is also a definitive tone). Has a bit more high end sparkle than most MK1 sounds, but the clean high end bell tone sits perfectly in Phish's mix next to the cutting and mid heavy overdrive of Trey Anastasio's guitar tone.

Rhodes MK2:

I am struggling to find a definitive list (or amy at all) of recordings that feature an MK2... MK1 is easy since anything before the release of the MK2 has to be an MK1... but somehow I can't find lists of Rhodes recordings that differentiate between to two instruments. So I'm gonna be selfish and talk about my own use.

My MK2 tone - Genetics (Dr. Spookymuffin album). I was in this band for a few years and had a lot of time to experiment and find sounds I liked. I ran into a Dunlop Bass Wah with the mix turned mostly to the dry signal, but high "Q" (resonance) on the wah signal, and from there into an EHX Ring Thing which I used like a multi-fx (phaser, tremolo, octave, and a light detune used like a chorus primarily, almost never actually used it like a classic ring mod). Lots of focus on the nasal and bell end of the tone spectrum, had the bass EQ almost all the way down and left the lows open for our bassist. With the slightest touch of drive the raw piano was a pretty clean sound, but using the wah it would just start to break up and give some really 'lasery' sounds... and the wah going intk an octave up effect got very lasery.

I miss that piano... I ran into a great deal on a Wurlitzer at some point after leaving that band and sold the Rhodes... and although I love my Wurli, I regret it. I never had to worry about breaking tines on the Rhodes, and it was much easier to tune/service, and felt confident playing it live. After one experience having a reed go out of tune playing the Wurli live, and then also experiencing how much tougher it is to tune, it sits at home for personal use and recording, I just don't trust it on stage.

(I got a little bit ADD talking about my own sounds/gear there, but I just don't feel confident in knowing for sure what recordings feature an MK2, so I'm excited to hear what MK2 recordings you all like... I'm honestly a bit surprised that most album credits/gear lists just say "Rhodes Piano" since the model if the instrument has a big effect on the overall sound)

Clavinet:

Curtis - Medeski Martin & Wood. Like the Wurli, he pushes it into a lot of dirt, even to the point of feedback sometimes, and he really makes it speak with the wah. He makes a clav sound like no one else. This recording isn't quite as dirty as his live sound, but it definitely gets the point across and is a wonderful performance and tone.

Chameleon- Herbie Hancock. Once again, just a definitive recording for me. Opposite end of the spectrum from Medeski's sound, clean and silky wah tones, fits perfectly in a mix that has a lot going on.

Easing into a little funky blues jam after a slow ballad and finding yourself playing one of your most beautiful compositions, in a totally different genre than it was written as, is the exact sort of thing that makes this band special. Clocking in at less than 9 minutes, its just pure fun and doesn't try to be anything other than what it was.

Obviously its a bit subjective where the cutoff points lie, but defining Phish eras into 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 and 4.0 definitely doesn't tell the whole story of the bands evolution in approach and sound over the course of their career. Here's my take (and although the formatting may look AI-ish, I haven't used any whatsoever). (Adding to this paragraph after accidentally writing a novel... I said a lot, too much, but I'm definitely interested in hearing other folks takes on Phish's sonic transitions and eras, don't feel like you've gotta read all my nonsense to respind with your own thoughts)

84-86 - Holdsworth/two guitar era. A lot of Phish classics were already written and in rotation, but a two guitar sound led to a very different approach to playing than what Phish would become, and the band hadn't yet started exploring improv to the degree that would define the sound the band later found.

87-89 - Finding the full band chemistry/jazz fusion era. With Holdsworth leaving the band, there was a lot more room for experimentation, and new compositions were written specifically for a 4 piece act. The band was playing a ton of shows (127 in 1989), but rarely putside of the Northeast, with Colorado 88 as the first major foray away from their home turf. They were still playing jazz standards frequently in their setlists, and incorporating teases and quotes from other songs more and more frequently.

90-92 - Taking off/discovery. The band was at the top of their game for "Type 1" jams, and beginning to dip their toes into "Type 2" jamsmore and more frequently. Secret language was introduced in 1990 and solidified Phish as a "cult" band. Some fans were die-hards at this point and very much 'in the know' about the bands history and had been seeing them grow for years at this point. Trey's tone was more harsh and cutting than it would later become, and although other members certainly got the spotlight at times, the shows were much more based around Trey's lead playing than they would later become.

93-95 - THE early 90s sound. This era was the culmination of everything up to this point. Insane energy, deep Type 2 exploration becoming common in 1994, multiple peak tension and release jamming, and all 4 members having a more equal contribution to the sound than in previous eras. Page getting his grand piano is a defining part of the era and also shows the band had built a touring infrastructure/organization that allowed for bigger productions. You can't tour with a grand piano and light rig unless you're making solid money and have a well established fanbase.

96-98 - Step into the funk. 96 was a transition year that saw Trey intentionally taking a step back and leaving more space in the band's sound, and covering Remain In Light for their Halloween set saw that space tirn into a dedication towards funk based jamming. The Europe 97 tour further solidified that approach, and Summer 97 and Island Tour 98 were the peak of the band exploring and perfecting that sound.

99-03 - The Millennium sound. Funk was still a big part of the band's sound, but there were definitely some sonic shifts that happened in 99. There were frequent ambient/soundscape type jams that kept the spaciousness of the funk era, but were less focused on truly sounding funky. There was a new style of "evil"/"dark" jams that made their way into the sound that don't closely resemble anything before. The era also saw Trey beginning to use his Whammy pedal in new ways that are still used frequently in jams, where previously it had mostly been for full octave shifting, in 99 it was frequently used in soaring major key jams as part of his phrasing and sound as a pitch shifter/note bender as opposed to another layer beneath his leads. He also used the octave down shift combined with the wah pedal to create the 'lava wah' sound that is frequently heard in dirty minor key jams. 7/10/99 Chalkdust was referenced by Trey as a career culmination, and you can still hear echoes of that jam up through 2026, Trey is still chasing that dragon. I include 2003 in both this era as well as 'post hiatus'... IMO there was still a lot of the 2000 sound in 03 jams.

03-04 - Post-hiatus. Phish hit a peak at Big Cypress and didn't know how to follow it up... The party was overtaking the music, Trey and Page have both made references to simply feeling unhealthy and needing time off the road. One of the biggest sonic changes post hiatus was Trey ditching his Ross compressor and using a dirtier guitar tone more based in amp distortion than the dual Tubescreamers into the compressor that defined his tone in previous eras. Long, spacey, dark, and sometimes unfocused jams were common in this era... but there were also some very high energy showstoppers that can't be ignored. The band was less consistent than in previous eras, some of their more complex compositions were flubbed to all hell, or in the case of Fluffhead, completely dropped from their repertoire. Things got dark, weird, and sometimes sloppy... but there was also a type of intensity and abandon that accompanied the level of intoxication that Trey and Page had on stage. There are many epic jams, but also major duds.

09-12 - Jukebox Phish/the return/ripcord. Big jams were very infrequent but inspired and organic when they happened. Compositions were tight compared to the post-hiatus era. Type 1 jams were high energy, Mike and Page in particular were on fire and provided a very strong foundation and framework for Trey and Fish. This was a very divisive era for the fans... were we simply happy to have Phish back, or were we bummed that jams would frequently dip their toes into Type 2 area for 30 seconds to a couple of minutes before a harsh segue? Or was it a bit of both? "Plinko" jams were an era defining approach and were exciting for the fanbase. Phish was doing things in a way we'd never quite heard before. It was a new Type 2 sound, and it was fun as hell when they went for it. 12/28/10 Hood was IMO the definitive/codifying Plinko jam, it was one of the first tastes we had of Phish moving forward sonically. Most shows of this era had absolutely packed setlists, with rare exceptions that felt like "jam" shows, hence the jukebox Phish moniker.

13/14 - Still kinda jukeboxy/ripcordy. There were some bigger jam forays, there were more new songs being introduced, but to many (myself included), it felt like there was a loss of momentum. There had been a feeling that the band was building confidence and that a dedication to "big jams" was reemerging... but the ripcord was frequent in these 2 years. Personally... I had been Phish obsessed for many years and just kind of tired of them through these two years, so I don't have much tonsay except that they simply weren't holding my interest.

2015 - Fare Thee Well breaks the slump. Trey clearly put in a lot of work preparing for FTW, and itbwas apparent in his playing. His phrasing became more confident and less repetitive, he leaned less on the whammy pedal (I never mentioned the Whale Call in early 3.0, but it was a very common complaint), and Phish definitely had one of their first major sonic peaks since returning to stage. There were a decent amount of big jams, the type 1 jams were tight and energetic, it was an exciting time to be a Phan.

2016-2023 - My personal Phish hiatus. I don't have much to say... I had overdone Phish for myself, they had made up way too much of my primary music listening for over a decade of my life... I shufted gears, listened to basically nothing even remotely Phish/jam related, and found a lot of other great musicians to love. I went to a couple days of Dick's each year, but other than that I simply didn't listen to much, so I don't have much to say.

2024-2026 - Frequent long jams, a definite and defined sound and approach. Trey's phrasing is confident and fluid... They consistently play "big" multi-part jams every show, 2026 saw type 2 jams added to songs that had never been jammed before. IMO the average show is more exciting than early 3.0, its less predictable... but after 2 years back, I can also say that although there are frequent long jams, most of them are very self similar 2 chord vamps without much thematic development tying them together. The energy seems to ebb and flow on a show by show basis as opposed to song by song. Some nights they're on fire and things are clicking from front to back, some nights just fall flat on the whole. There are some spectacular shows and jams, but there are also plenty of 20-30+ minute jams that never got anywhere exciting. They seem to be on an upsweep, 2024 was a lot of fun, 2025 seemed like a step up from that, and 2026 has seemed like another step up from 2025. The biggest downside IMO is Mike's tone. The Serek just pulls him so much farther back in clarity, and although you can tell he's killing it all night every night, he simply doesn't have the punch and definition to truly appreciate his interaction with the other band members. I miss the Modulus.

That got way more in depth than I intended... too much coffee. If you made it this far, you're probably a bigger Phish geek than me, I wouldn't read all of that if someone else posted it. So, a reminder of the initial question: what are YOUR defining eras/cutoffs of Phish's sonic development?

Hard to believe this video is 14 years old and we haven't seen this door's career take off.

I'm wondering if y'all have noticed whether woody debris/structure washed out or in during the floods. I fished a stretch on the Betsie yesterday and it seems like nome of the deep pools have log jams anymore. Tried a dry dropper for a while and didn't pull up any fish so I switched to deep nymphing pools, and I didn't snag a single branch the whole time, even dragging the bottom. Thats a first for me. Obviously the logs have to end up somewhere, but at least on this stretch, it seems like they got moved out of the pools, which seems a little counterintuitive. I was expecting to find more debris in the river than I was used to. We might have lost decades of structure buildup.

I recently watched a PBS Spacetime episode that talked about the idea that evidence of a technological civilization like our own could essentially be erased (aside from chemical/atmospheric signatures in sedimentary rock layers) in a relatively short time, geologically speaking. Where on our planet could we place some evidence of our existence and intelligence that would remain unharmed for potentially hundreds of millions of years? I'm thinking an area far from subduction zones, and an area that would retain an arid climate maybe? It seems unlikely that we can accurately predict tectonic motion and climatic changes that far into the future... but if you had to make a guess for what part of a continental crust would make for long term stability, where would it be?

There are lots of all-timer Phish jams that still have a few minutes of searching at some point, whether its the start of the jam before they lock in, or between two different segments of the jam, etc... For example, two of my all time favorite jams are Went Gin, and 7/10/99 Chalkdust. IMO Went Gin is pretty standard until about the 8 minute mark, nothing really better or worse than another Gin jam from the era... and its only then that they've found what they were searching for. For Camden Chalkdust, its a standard and perhaps even sub-par Chalkdust jam for the era up until the 8:50 mark, where a single note leads to a slight change in feel and focus which sends it stratospheric.

On the flip side, an example of an All Killer No Filler jam is 12/2/95 Tweezer. Literally from the first note it feels special, the mid song improv moments feel special, and from the very first notes of the jam, the band is absolutely locked in, and never once falters.

Obviously its all subjective, but what do YOU think are no-filler jams?

Gonna be up there this weekend and tying some flies tonight, any hatches I should be thinking about?

I'm very interested to hear what misconceptions or mistakes are common in fly tying, because I'm sure there are many that I haven't realized.

The biggest one I see frequently is adding wing cases to nymphs on the side of the fly that faces up... fish almost never see your nymph from above, trout, generally speaking, are going to see your nymph from below and move up in the water column to take it. Trout DO see wing cases on naturals, nymphs tumble when they're drifting and they could be facing in any direction when a trout sees them. So its not pointless to tie in wing cases to get a closer match to the nymph you're trying to match... but if you want the trout to see that wing case, you need to tie it on the side of the fly that will be facing the bottom of the river. Its essentially pointless to tie a wing case on the hook point side of a jig nymph, there is very little chance that a trout is going to see it. And really, chances are the wing case doesn't make a difference to begin with, but if you're going to take the time to tie it in, you should at least put it where the fish will see it.

I feel like part of what inherently makes the show great is that it isn't formulaic, its willing to experiment with different formats and types of stories. They lost some actors from the original cast, they had to change to work with who was available, and theu did the best theu could with what they had, and IMO it was still great... even if it wasn't the same as the first 3 seasons. I like season 6 more than season 3, its hilarious, its got several episodes that go into the top 10 of the shows run... Yeah, it doesn't have Troy, Pierce, or Shirley... but it still has the great writing and acting that made the show special in the first place.

I'm always surprised by how attached to the characters people are. Yes, they're actors and characters we grew to love, yes, they provided the foundation for the shows writing style... but Elroy and Frankie are just as funny (if not moreso) than Pierce and Shirley. IMO there's no way the show could have stayed about the initial 7 members of the study group and continued to make any sense in the long run. It became a show about Greendale the school, and it still worked (and could have continued to work) with members of the main cast leaving and being replaced. In a community (Community), people come and go. Its not a cartoon where people don't age and everything stays static. Its a live action show about a place where things change and people age and move on. Its unfortunate that the show got cancelled, but I think it could have had a longer run and still been great with members entering and leaving the main cast. To me, it was always about the writing and the acting, not the actors and the characters. The writing and acting is what makes the characters great, and there are plenty of great actors who could have stepped in and been a great part of the core cast of any season going forward.

If the show had wound up being the Dean, Jeff, and Frankie as the only long term cast members, with a new teacher and group of students as the "save Greendale committee" for each season (maybe some new favorites sticking around for longer), it still would have been great. It honestly would have opened things up a lot to have different characters and interpersonal dynamics shifting in and out. IMO the episode "Paradigms of Human Memory" showed pretty well how the relationships of the core study group could have gotten stale over a long run. It was the same type of conflict over and over even by season 2. Bringing in different characters opens up so much for the writers to take the show in different directions while still keeping the heart of the show (Greendale CC) in tact.

There were so many episodes of the show throughout its entire run where the entire point was "be accepting of change because its the only inevitability in life"... and I think that was partially Harmon and the writers laying the groundwork for a potential longer future of the show that never happened, but if it had managed to have a longer life, we as an audience would have had to be accepting of that fact just as much as the characters... and I think the show would still have been great with that idea as an accepted part of the format.

In particular I'm wondering about the Grand Rapids show. IDK about the rest of the tour, but its looking like its going to be undersold by quite a bit. How long before the show do they tend to announce different venues if/when that happens?

I recently moved to an area that gets steelhead runs and need to go significantly larger than my standard bamboo trout net. The largest silicone rubber nets I can find seem to top out at around a 20" hoop length, and I know these fish can get well over 30"... is 20" the largest silicone mesh net bag thats currently manufactured, or does anyone make a net thats actually large enough to handle a steelhead?