(Even though i don't really believe in "debunking" when it comes to fantastical stories)
Illustration of the psychological affinity and emotional resonance of a composer and fictional character of the same type. Music starts at 1:05.
Argh i know the music should probably be higher
I just put some music over two Deltarune scenes. I think it fits very well. I hope you like it!
Even though it ruins my vibes, i'm going to have to make this a text post. Putting all the important stuff in the comments was not a very good idea. This post will (hopefully) show why Susie a Sexual 6 (and an ISFP), Toriel a Self-preservation 1 ESTJ, Sans a Social 5, among many other things.
I understand that reading a fragment about a character's psychology is not the same when not doing it out of your own curiosity, and when the original text is divorced from its context, so i even though i spent some time elaborating on this, you'll probably need to be in the right state of mind and have some trust in my good faith that i didn't just cherrypick the fragments.
So yeah. Let's do it and be legends. Why not.
Doing it like nobody's ever done it before.
In their base, typing their dudes.
I can understand why she is not typed as a 1, her energy is not nearly as rigid and cold as most of them. That being said, i think it's actually just an example of a healthy 1's energy, being the type that's between 9 and 2, in a way being a mixture of both of them.
She is also very loving, which i guess has made people type her as a 2, but that's the thing; the relational types "by excellence" almost always have severe problems with being able to love others unconditionally, not tainting their gestures with their need for love, and to show themselves authentically and directly.
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Carmen Durán and Antonio Catalán's Self-Preservation 1 Description
In this subtype, anger is transformed into a constant worry about everyone and everything, into a worry that masks aggression, because it gives them the right to intervene in others’ lives, in an imperial need to have everything under control. It is because of this need that we propose the term “Control.” It possesses a strong component of anxiety, insecurity, and preoccupation ensuring that nothing bad happens to them or their loved ones. Maintaining control is a guarantee that nothing bad will happen. Control is related to doing things right, as if it underlies a magic belief about things badly done being catastrophic, while things well done give a type of guarantee. Life will respect me if I do things well. Control, justified by worry, is the distorted form of demonstrating love.
...Almost literally word for word what happens in the first area, the Tutoriel of the game. Not that anything she did was all that scandalous or some manifestation of a neurosis but still.
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A few hidden little "character building" moments:
~Alphys (Neutral Ending)
~Toriel (True Pacifist epilogue) https://youtu.be/4rJ4rsoi_5I?si=yzHW2c6Lk4fE6dIF
~Gerson Boom on Asgore and Toriel (True pacifist epilogue)
All these things considered, i think i now have enough evidence to show why i believe she's an "extraverted thinking" type, ESTJ. (One of the most overlooked, depreciated and caricatured types in typology. SAD!)
Also, this isn't even close to all the moments and facts that could be brought up, but i don't want to kill her character for myself, by cutting up and separating all the little tidbits about her.
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From Cognitive Typology:
"As we noted with Tolkien, history and the accumulation of facts or datasets can become an integral part of this type’s disposition. The TeSi can often be seen as the student in class with unreal, encyclopedic memory or an ability to remember vast amounts of mainstream trivia. As they go about their life, the TeSi, like the SiTe, will show a keen capacity for archiving isolated tidbits of information for specific use in some future occurrence.
But the Si tapestry of the TeSi is also under constant filtration, as their Te manages the inaccuracies of Si. Because of this, Si will be less nostalgic and more functionally oriented. While SiTe types are more prone to grandfather their Si worldview into their personality, often operating through the same thematic premise that they acquired in earlier decades, the TeSi type will not hold itself so rigidly to these veteran ideas.
We will commonly find this subtype in politicians, news reporters and lawyers – domains that engage many of the TeSi’s chronological and managerial strengths – but equally so in hobbyists and fans of a certain franchise.
Their affinities for taxonomy and history can manifest in a diversity of topics, both professional and recreational. (...)"
LSE general description by Victor Gulenko
The LSE (ESTj) is assertive, operative, and hard-working. Cannot sit still not being engaged in anything. Prefers actions to words. Has a developed sense of responsibility. Fights chaos and disorder wherever he might be. Dislikes it when he is being distracted from what he is doing. If taking a break, he does it as thoroughly as he does his work.
Appreciates merit and good quality above everything else. Tries to provide for his loved ones by means of increasing their material prosperity. Very caring. Comes to rescue when someone is threatened by physical danger. In such a situation acts with courage and determination.
Intolerant of trickery and wiles. Expresses his opinion directly. In business and practical dealings, he is dry and official, but in an informal atmosphere shows kindness and a sense of humor. Doesn't have sufficient diplomacy in relations - may get agitated, lose his temper. A stubborn debater, becomes hot-tempered when proving his correctness. Doesn't know how to make compliments. Dislikes empty chatter, though finds it difficult to cut off a phone conversation. (LOL)
Getting stuck in details of work, he sometimes doesn't finish it in time, which is very upsetting for him. Unprepared for unexpected events. Slowly learns and accepts new trends, developments, and styles; often is conservative and supports traditions.
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Why she is NOT a self-preservation 2.
Instead of a basic description which can seem kind of meaningless when you haven't met the right person and put everything in its proper context, it might be better to paint a mental picture of the type with a bunch of smaller qualities and descriptions, while comparing them to Toriel.
https://wiki.personality-database.com/books/enneagram/page/self-preservation-2-in-detail
Dependent
Of the three subtypes, this is the most dependent, although he shows a self-sufficient and independent façade. He distances himself from his family with the idea that distance will diminish his dependence, but it does not, because he compulsively establishes dependent relationships to ensure his protection and survival. He is chameleonic and his great intuitive capacity allows him to captivate others.
He seeks to relate to people with a strong character to compensate for his insecurity, but with this he “loses” his freedom, sticking to the role of being loved for being cheerful.
He projects aggression because he does not contact with courage, which would allow him to set limits, since he lives wanting to please everyone.
Arrogant and Egocentric
The proud arrogance of this character manifests itself above all in believing that what he wants or thinks must always be taken into account and confirmed. It is not that he believes he is intellectually right; it is rather the arrogance of one who claims in the first place, a capricious haughtiness.
Self-indulgent
As a character based on the idealization of himself, he forgives everything. This forgiveness shows his intolerance of limits and reiterates his childish attitude, whereby everything must be allowed. He thus compensates for frustration or contact with low self-esteem, hidden by the permissiveness granted to a child. It is a trait in short circuit with the fear of being an adult.
Inconstant
The conservation E2 is intolerant of discipline; any work that entails effort or renunciation is seen by him as something impossible to sustain. Obviously, he justifies himself with lies or devaluing the objective. He also solves the obstacle by delegating the task. This dynamic is basic to remain dependent on the other and to nurture his pride, unaware of how this intolerance prevents him from regaining inner security as an adult.
...On and on, and on, the descriptions don't match at all. If her personality somewhat coincided with these descriptions, then maybe there would be some leeway, but it doesn't.
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I'm pretty convinced Alphys is a Self-preservation 4. She's actually very independent, both materially and emotionally for a 4.
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This little excerpt perfectly captures her motivations for involving herself in the story.
Caregiver of others, Helpful, and Welcoming
The conservation E4 lives the relationship with others, friends and family with a great spirit of service and care. In this approach he finds fulfillment, a sense of worth, and a practical way to express love. He cares for others both materially and emotionally, though often risking taking on more than is necessary. In service he finds an identity, a place that makes him worthwhile and allows belonging.
Bratty and Catty's dialogue on Alphys would indicate that she has a history of relating to others in this way:
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Resource finder and Decisive creativity
It is the ability to find solutions creatively, especially when they are needed for issues that concern others and not oneself. Specifically, creativity is expressed in the will to find possibilities through the omnipotent attitude of overcoming obstacles, of seeing alternative paths, of not giving up despite the difficulties.
Carmen Durán and Antonio Catalán's Self-Preservation 4 Description
In this subtype, the need is to obtain “Merits” in order to get what life has not given to them, but that others get without effort. The term “Merits” describes their believe that effort and sacrifice turn them into righteous deservers of love and recognition. The way to become special is through sacrificial effort, chosen and conscious, that makes them better people, and more good-natured than others, at the same time redeeming them from the internal image of badness. It is not possible to deny the sacrifice which makes us special, even if it entails suffering. Tenacity is the attitude derived from this mission that cannot be given up on, given that one day this suffering will have its fruits and they will be recognized by all.
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Worth
With a brave character, he does not shy away from challenges, he knows how to endure with patience and willpower even the toughest tests, whether they affect him or those close to him. If the stake is high, there is no room for reflection on whether or not to undertake difficult paths
Yerp
The humble Ultra-Secret Near Genocide Ending:
https://youtu.be/QW33niOgtg4?si=Z2yInTcDd5UJ2PJA
Basically, Alphys, in this ending, becomes the ruler of the underground and seems to have overcome many of her fears.
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I'm just gonna copypaste stuff from Character and Neurosis.
It's annoying that the end of the I section and the beginning of the V section are flipped in this pdf, for some reason, but it's the only one i can find. Thankfully i speak spanish so i need not bother with it most of the time. I also get to see the cool illustrations of the enneagram types which aren't in the english version.
His/Her Royal Majesty, E.J. Gold
(...) If the gesture of anger is to run over, that of avarice is one of holding back and holding in. While anger expresses greed in an assertive (even though unacknowledged) way, greed in avarice manifests only through retentiveness. This is a fearful grasping, implying a fantasy that letting go would result in catastrophic depletion. Behind the hoarding impulse there is, we may say, an experience of impending impoverishment.
Yet, holding on is only half of ennea-type V psychology; the other half is giving up too easily. Because of an excessive resignation in regard to love and people, precisely, there is a compensatory clutching at oneself-which may or not manifest in a grasping onto possessions, but involves a much more generalized hold over one's inner life as well as an economy of effort and resources. The holding back and self-control of avarice is not unlike that of the anger type, yet it is accompanied by a getting stuck through clutching at the present without openness to the emerging future.
(...) It might be said that the avaricious is internally perfectionistic rather than critical of the outer world, but most importantly the difference between the two ennea-types lies in the contrast between the active extroversion of the former and the introversion of the latter, (the introversion of a thinking type that avoids action).
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(Enneatype V, Trait structure)
Feelinglessness
Though I have already alluded to a repression of needs, and mentioned the suppression of anger of ennea-type V, it seems desirable to group these descriptors along with others in a more generalized trait of feelinglessness. It has to do with the loss of awareness of feelings and even an interference with the generation of feeling, which results from the avoidance of expression and action. This characteristic makes some individuals indifferent, cold, unempathic, and apathetic. Also anhedonia might be placed here, though the greater or lesser incapacity to enjoy pleasure is a more complex phenomenon: while ennea-type I is aversive to pleasure, ennea-type V simply appears as having a diminished capacity to experience it. In this is implicit, however, the fact that pleasure does not rank high in the scale of values of this character for it is postponed to more "urgent" drives, such as the drive to keep a safe distance from others and the drive for autonomy.
Postponement of Action
We may say that to act is to invest oneself, to put one's energies into use, which goes against the grain of retentive orientation of type V. Yet, more generally, action can not be considered as separate from interaction, so when the drive to relate is low the drive to do is concomitantly lessened. On the other hand, action requires an enthusiasm for something, a presence of feelings-which is not the case in the apathetic individual. To do is also something like showing one's self to the world, for one's actions manifest one's intentions. One who wants to keep his intentions hidden (as the avaricious typically does) will also Inhibit his activity on these grounds and develop, instead of a spontaneous movement and initiative, an excessive restraint. The characteristic trait of procrastination may be regarded as a hybrid between negativism and the avoidance of action.
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(Antecedents in literature)
(...) Also evocative of ennea-type V is the personality picture associated in homeopathic medicine with Silica. I quote from "The inflexibility of flint is manifested on the mental plane in Silica's 'obstinacy' ...He is not aggressive or argumentative, will smile, remain pleasant, and appear mild enough -but still proceeds as he deems best..."
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Bonus social 5 stuff:
Distancing
Despite being the most sociable subtype, this subtype is still seen as distant, reserved, and withdrawn. The social E5 does not expect to receive anything from relationships, and thus easily gives them up. There is an extreme attachment to the self.
Lack of action and Little energy
Due to a tendency to save energy, the social E5 suffers from great difficulties taking action. This subtype is also barely available for relationships, as the consequence of saving energy. Sometimes, all of their energy can be directed to areas of their lives they consider important, usually in the service of an ideal. The social E5 sometimes never feels ready enough to put his energy into the world, becoming a simple observer of life, and wasting both opportunities and talents.
Concealed atmosphere
In relationships, there is a lack of transparency, as part of trying to maintain an ideal image. Being mysterious and shy, the social E5 is always hiding part of himself.
Desensitization
The social E5 is both insensitive and hypersensitive. This subtype walks around indifferent, being insensitive to the needs of others. At the same time, the social E5 is very needy and vulnerable, something he compensates by becoming cold and distant.
Resignation and Difficulty saying no
The social E5 is resigned, preferring to keep frustration to himself. He can end up accepting the other's wish, because he does not know how to say “no” - as part of avoiding conflicts. The absence of conflicts is only maintained by renouncing life, leading to vital restriction and reduction of growth potential.
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“Fear? Who said fear? Fear does not exist, plain and simple, because one cannot show fear in front of the world, since it carries his look of invalid, not worthy, not measure up, not be up to height, provokes such a great feeling of indignity that it becomes practically unbearable. (L.)”
>“(...) Gosh, though, did that make Susie mad.
>"You little..."
>She ran over and grabbed Kris by the hair, staring into their face. REALLY close. I froze. I knew that if I didn't do anything, Kris would get hurt, or worse, but something inside me just... froze! I just stood there, holding my breath. And Susie kept talking.
>"One day, your mom's gonna get sick of you, you little freak. And as soon as that happens..."
>Susie laughed. I felt genuinely sick.
>"Someone might make you disappear. And she'll finally realize how happy she was without you."
>But after all that,
>Kris didn't say anything at all.
>Susie EXPLODED.
>"SAY SOMETHING, YOU IDIOT!!!"
>It felt like her voice echoed around the room forever.
>Then, when it finally went quiet,
>Kris's mouth looked like it moved.
>To be honest, moved so slightly, I couldn't even tell if they said something, or what, but whatever it was, Susie's attitude... suddenly completely changed.
>She let go of Kris, backing off quickly, then left the room in such a hurry, she easily would have won today's "leaving first" race.
>I REALLY wish I could have seen her reaction, but I was so scared she would see me that I literally just jumped into my locker X)
>In the end all I could see through the little slats was her shape from behind, going towards the entrance of the school with her head held low.
>Finally, I heard the entrance door close. (...)”
CHILDHOOD
Coldness, violence, and loneliness accompany the childhood of people with a sexual Six character. Feeling lonely is something common to all of them, even if they have lived all day with their mother or have had siblings. It is not about feeling abandoned; It is a loneliness that comes from feeling like strangers in a world that they cannot understand.
What confuses them most is the absurdity of feeling threatened, or even mistreated, by a mother who should love them. They don't understand it, they look for explanations and find them only by feeling guilty or inadequate.
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The violence
For many of the sexual E6 it is the mother who throws them into that abyss: she is either violent or emotionally chaotic. Only as adults, many realize their mother's madness, with cases of borderline personality disorder, bipolarity, schizophrenia. (There is also a majority of sexual E4 mothers.) We do not want to and cannot generalize, but surely it has been a chaotic, ambivalent, anxious mother, who did not offer basic security.
Since I can remember anything that came from my nose meant a displeasure for my mother. I reacted in a way that I felt was violent, especially since I couldn't find a plausible reason for that treatment coming from my mother, who was supposed to love me. (...) But at that moment, I remember constantly thinking that I didn't understand anything: I didn't understand what was wrong with my mother, I didn't understand what I had done that could cause her so much despair. Her words when addressing me were a constant litany of: «You are my misfortune...», «If i hadn't given birth to you... and the consequent threats to take her own life. (R.)
The father is often absent and submits to the mother. In this case, a reversal of roles is observed: the mother is the man of the house, she has power, and the father is a more "human" point of reference, a more effectively accessible figure. But their physical or emotional absence disorients and deprives the child of a solid, adequate guide to face the world.
In other cases the father is normative, authoritarian; their values include obedience and discipline; he frequently adheres to fascist or military ideologies, or is himself a military man. In the event that the violence comes from the father, we find mothers who are submissive, weak and devalued by the man. The child feels that he must obey rules that have little to do with his protection; that they rather serve to make the father feel fair and right, at the expense of the son.
Some parents find false strength through alcohol. Aggression and violence come suddenly and the threat is general, unpredictable,
The child finds refuge and salvation in silence and in the rigidity of the body.
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Shame and shyness
(...) It would seem that most of the counterphobes have undergone a transformation between childhood and puberty. From small, silent, submerged in their own inadequacy and shyness, Then aggressive, armored, talkative. In any case, there is a background shyness ready to come out when you feel exposed. But the child is ashamed of shyness because he feels that it reveals weakness and a feeling of inferiority.
Shame also refers to their origin, to their family. Many report that they have hidden their family situation. They have been ashamed of the madness, poverty or violence that they experienced at home. They have never talked about their parents with friends, they have never invited their classmates over. Their own origin is experienced as an indelible mark that marks them out as despicable people. If it were discovered where they come from and where they live, they would be excluded from the world.
In group situations, I imagined that I was not seen and this placed me in a position of invisibility from which I could stare shamelessly, with impunity. My fantasy had to do with invisibility. My perception was always that I saw and observed everything while I was not seen. (R.)”
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Paranoid
The paranoid attitude of people with this character is linked to their favorite defense mechanism: projection. The parts of himself considered intolerable and ego-dystonic are attributed to the other, in the firm belief that he is dangerous. He mentally repeats each of his gestures and looks, and attributes to them meanings consistent with the basic presupposition: he is an enemy and he is conspiring against him.
Thought is disconnected from reality, and fantasy is no longer just something possible but a confirmed reality (obviously verified only at the level of your thought). The state of confusion between reality and thoughts is such that he believes in them as if they were “facts,” concrete data, and proven truths. The perception of being attacked becomes a reality from which it is necessary to defend oneself. The counterphobic, then, is always on the alert.
Waiting is wasting precious time during which something irreparable may happen. So trigger a defensive attack: “eliminate the enemy before he eliminates me.”
According to Claudio Naranjo, the sexual E6 has learned to defend himself against paranoid fantasies through intimidation. Aggression and fear create a vicious circle.
“After much thought, he expressed a categorical judgment about others, labeling them as people I should take care of and keep at a certain distance, looking at them from afar. This detachment created distrust and suspicion, to the point that at one time I seemed to hear others while they were talking about me.”
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ISFP
I personally think this is obvious just by looking at her and her facial expressions. Which is something that's kind of implicitly looked down upon in typology. But words are incapable of capturing reality, and in fact any of our very complicated raw experience and contact with reality cannot really be expressed in words, only alluded to. So yeah whatever. Words are lame.
ESI (Fi-Se) description by Victor Gulenko
General description
ESI is principled and self-sustained. Externally tends to look balanced and unemotional. Provides moral evaluations of actions of a person, but usually voices them only within a familiar circle. Has a good sense for potential foes and ill-wishers, sharply dividing people into “his own” and “others”. Does not recognize friendship and love if they are unrequited and the feelings aren’t mutual.
Lives by his present day problems rarely thinking too far ahead. Feels unsure when he takes on unfamiliar to him assignments. The closer the expected event draws, the more agitated and mobilized the ESI becomes. Dislikes being in situations of uncertainty, when he cannot definitively say yes or no.
Proactively and directly defends against attacks on himself and on those who are close to him. If he has decided to take revenge, he can find and deal a blow to the weakest spot of his opponent. Does not allow himself to be caught unaware. Sensitively reacts to being accused of unfairness and lack of objectivity. Needs to keep some physical distance, due to this dislikes spending a lot of time in physical proximity with others. Strangers and unfamiliar people in his house worry and irritate him.
When making a decision ESI internally weights its seriousness and possible negative implications. Practical in his everyday life, can put anything to use that he finds in his territory. Keeps order and tidiness in his space. Changes habits with difficulty. Will not wait if promises are not backed up by concrete actions.
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Not much to say here, he's a Social 6.
...The social 6 section of Cobardes is really really good. And made me sad reading it, thinking about his character.
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Fatherly attitude
In the «knight errant» strategy, the generous giving position reigns, as opposed to receiving (love, attention...), which implies openness, receptivity and vulnerability.
In intimate relationships, in groups... in all areas, the social E6 adopts a chronic strategy of paternal positions, of protectionism, offering knowledge, intellectual guidance, reliability.
The ghost is the fear of surrender, of a position of receptivity that impels to open up, surrender and trust. "If I give myself up, I'm going to be exposed, vulnerable." The anguish of frustration, emptiness, and the difficulty to loosen up break in. This trusting availability is the great challenge, the great learning experience of a social Six enneatype. Trust that something good will nourish you; that the other wants the best for him.
At the bottom of his being, the child unworthy of love emerges. Without effort there is no reward. This is the harsh “truth”, the message internalized in mountains of painful ascents, bathed in sweaty tears of silent suffering, in the desert wasteland.
Unworthy because not doing, simply receiving, implies the irruption of a sharp anguish like a sword, of a nail that leaves the body shrunken. “If I don't do anything, they can't love me, they won't accept me and pay attention. How are they going to love me for myself, for who I am? Simply by being?” Learning to let go in the field of love, to relax, to leave yourself exposed and delivered to your partner, is your spiritual gymnastics.
Surrender and confidence, step by step, until meeting that fragile, small, human being, renouncing the "heroics" of infinite conquests, of lofty challenges.
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Moral and intellectual superiority and dominance
The compensatory strategy of their submission and devaluation is moral and intellectual superiority. Compulsively complying with what is established or trying too hard gives you an internal position in which you can demand a certain response. I make an effort, then I can demand of you.» The effort supports him morally, making him feel "good" from his personal code of justice.
The refuge in theorizing places him beyond good and evil, beyond the capricious and subjective debauchery of feelings. “I can be more objective and in possession of the truth, since the clear vision of the whole supports me.”
He adopts positions of dominance and control over those he considers more intimate, close, or inferior, either because they are more emotional, because they know less than he does, or because they are more "irrational" or with less life experience.
From the abyss, the monster of rabid certainty shouts: "I am right! I possess the truth!»
Farther back, the boy crouched, paralyzed with fear and utterly alone. Hopelessness and deep insecurity can generate aggressive or totalitarian reactions. Many social E6, through politics or religious ideals, have given free rein to dogmatic and fanatical behavior. (...)
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Propensity to ideals and Psychic refuges
...The “disenchanted forest.” The maternal affective rootlessness and paternal absence are filled with ideals and the values of the sense of duty, obedience to the rules of the social game, and compliance with the norm.
By being deprived of the delight and pleasant management of the basic issues of daily life, it loses its energetic and affective link with the vital flow. This loss of magnetism, this “exit” from the river of life, of materiality, of the vital body, devitalizes him and positions him in existential austerity, tinged with a lacking void, made of desert sand, resigned, resignation assumed.
This position implies emotional distance, disaffection, and derotation. A deficit of affective and pleasurable attachment that causes routinization. In short, these quixotic walkers, obsessed with windmills, do not dialogue with the Sanchos, they cannot even see them (or learn from them). A dissociation is configured without any bridge that gives access, from the shore of ideals, to the basic delights of everyday life.
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Self-incrimination strategies
The fragility of the bottom of his being (beyond the mask of self-control), makes the social E6 hypersensitive towards criticism. And before any external criticism induces a feeling of lack, he launches into crude self-accusations that devitalize him but make him feel bad. they save from the anguish of humiliation.
That humiliated boy, that humiliated girl, hides in the dungeons covering his ears and eyes because he cannot bear the indignity. The body is flooded with fear of possible criticism that, by awakening the unhealed wounds of the shamed child, will be humiliating. “If they criticize me, I die; if they accuse or point fingers at me, I'm ashamed. I won't be able to bear it. “
I am not worthy of you entering my house, my dwelling, but one word from you will be enough to heal me. The lightness, the tenderness, the softness of genuine affection loosen the armor layer by layer. Every word of love, compassionate look or gesture of empathy from the other and from himself will be enough to heal him and make him feel worthy of love.
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That last one isn't particularly relevant, it's just fire writing.
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Ramb is both a great parody and an empathetic depiction of some sexual 3's socially clueless, awkward, people pleasing attitude.
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At first i only put Lancer in Sp9 just as a vibes-based working theory, but then i remembered the streamer HcJustin (Self-preservation 9) talk about him and his childhood friends smoking weed, jerking their shit, and setting themselves on fire (among other crazy antics) and everything about Lancer clicked together.
(Not that Lancer would... do those things, i mean that the way HcJustin talks about those things is very Lancer-coded.)
This video is a whole experience. 12:20 to a few minutes onwards is a moment that illustrates why he's a 9 and what i'm talking about. He's the one with hair. https://youtu.be/zvRa9yPwnmI
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I paid actual attention to Bratty's character for the first time while trying to find her type.
She always speaks first, although between Catty and her, she is by far the more measured and mellow of the two.
Even though she presents herself amicably. she is also very introverted and even rather antisocial, not only do we find her alone in an alley doing whatever in chapter 2, but she also speaks of going to play ukelele by herself on the beach. She, of course, also has a history of trashy, coarse, and raptorial behavior and seems comfortable with this. So she is very Sp and Sx 6 coded
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Transkeanu_chungus from the past:
>i think Toby Fox’s depictions of 5s is likely to have been influenced by the character “Leder” from Mother 3. Someone who apparently has very little importance to the story, only to be reveal they were burdened with horrifying secrets, resigned, mute and nihilistic. It’s curious that when he tells his story, the music (Which is just straight up Erik Satie's gymnopedie No.1) ends up being not so much a gesture towards the all-important subject matter, but his own subjective experience of being the sole carrier of that knowledge left alive in the entire world.
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Flowey
>Flowey is a sexual 4, that might seem odd because they describe themselves as completely emotionless. Funnily enough this same paradox between emptiness and emotionality (ultimately stemming from envy) has been depicted not once, but twice at least, in the characters of AM, and Meron from Beastars
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Mad dummy
>I thought for a while that Mad Dummy could be a sexual 1, but his anger is actually just a caricature of a sexual 4's "vendetta". The rest of his personality also doesn't make any sense for sx1.
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Undyne and instincts
>Why is Undyne Sx and not So? Well first of all, unfortunately the sexual instinct doesn’t necessarily manifest in someone seeking relationships, and speaking of dominant instinct is not the same as speaking of superficial behavior, otherwise superficial behavior would be enough to change the dominant instinct and we’re talking about something deeper. The instincts are tied to someone’s entire demeanor, not just what they say or what we see them do over a very limited time period.
>Second, the games probably omit certain parts of the character, someone more cynical could say that it’s sanitized, but it’s more an ideal depiction of the type or just not something that’s relevant for the story.
>Edit: Also, secondary social instinct. Also, acting on a social basis and motivation is not necessarily the same as the social instinct although it is obviously linked, especially with 8s
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Dess and the Knight
>The knight’s mannerisms and body language indicate that Dess has retained her personality AND supports my previous assumption that she’s a sx6. (Arms crossed, aura farming, quintessential sx6 pose) In a way this is another piece of evidence for Dess Knight, not that it was necessary, just a really cool detail.
I didn't even remember Susie in the elevator a while after writing that LOL
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I also may have forgotten something because like 2 hours of work got erased before posting it and i had to redo it by memory so yeah
By "instinctual tendency" i just mean behaviors that are similar, or sometimes even the same, as the behaviors that come from a certain instinct.
All the instincts are also present in many animals, which is precisely why they're called instincts. This is something that people miss about their definition because the concept is constantly misused, and confused for other aspects of our personality. I will explain a bit more about the social instinct later, and i hope that sheds some light on what the instincts actually are.
Basically though, there's a difference between the entirety of the social domain, and the social instinct.
Before i begin making any assertions, i want to say this is based on ideas from both Ichazo and Naranjo, so i'm not just pulling this out of my ass. Anyways, the post starts now:
Visceral types (8, 9, 1)
It's not particularly hard to see that any of these types' tendencies are in-line with the self-preservation instinct. There's an important exception in type 1, who generally has much more of an innate social tendency. They still have a strong awareness of material well-being and security though.
Relational types (2, 3, 4)
Same as the last one, it's not hard to see how the triad's natural tendencies are in line with the sexual and social instinct.
It also happens to be the case that the self preservation subtype is the "counter-type" of 2, 3 and 4. (This pattern would also hold for the entire enneagram, with social being the counter type for the gut triad, and sexual for the head triad, if it weren't for the fact that Types 1 and 7 are "flipped", with social being the counter-type 7, and sexual being the counter-1)
Mental types (5, 6, 7)
One should just begin with type 6 as the main representative of this triad.
Sixes are the most disposed towards, and generally the best at maintaining strong friendships.
This is not exactly an expression of the social instinct, since the pure social instinct, being an instinct, (and i really want to hammer this down) is only concerned with the most baseline, survival oriented aspects of that domain; while friendship is social, it cannot only come from the social instinct, instead the instinct is about awareness of group dynamics (and the preference of this type of attention), and about the imitation and adherence to role models.
(Parents, idols, heroes... deities... also obviously at the forefront in sixes.)
Now, Type 5. Really bad at having friends? Usually, yeah. But not out of the complete absence of social tendencies, like some Type eights.
Eights are almost never shy. Shyness is actually a manifestation of the social instinct. There are no animals that are shy... as far as i know? In any case, its existence is necessarily the result of an existing social structure, and in my view shyness comes from a heightened sensitivity and awareness of social dynamics.
Well, whether we want to connect or not is usually another thing. But anyways, i also think the social instinct's aspect of imitating role models is also very clear in 5s.
Sexual is clearly the most absent tendency in 5 and 6, although in 7s it's a lot more mixed.
That's pretty much the end of the post.
These are just tendencies, so it's not like they are true in every moment for every person, but nothing about the enneagram is either, it doesn't mean it doesn't have any value.
And yeah, i believe that trying to type someone's instinct first is actually going to give you a combination of their instinct and their type's unique tendencies, and i don't think that should even be up for debate.
EDIT: does this mean that someone's dominant instinct can only be selfish and oriented towards survival? Not exactly, since it also involves a preference towards the type of attention related to that domain, which is not necessarily instinctual.
Also, a lot of people have been saying that the social instinct is about relationships. It's wrong, in two big ways, not just because by definition it is an instinct, but also because in essence it's saying that friendship is the only dimension of relationship that exists and that's completely ignoring the domain of interpersonal intimacy.
Just a weird short post showcasing the music of a type that's not a 4. More evidence in the comments, i guess
(Apart from Jung's, of course.)
Advanced personality:
https://www.advanced-personality.com/en/wiki/cognitype-system
Cognitive Typology articles:
Si:
https://cognitivetype.com/si-behaviorism-mythology/
Se:
https://cognitivetype.com/se-behaviorism-mythology/
Fi:
https://cognitivetype.com/fi-behaviorism-mythology/
Fe:
https://cognitivetype.com/fe-behaviorism-mythology/
Ti:
https://cognitivetype.com/ti-behaviorism-mythology/
Te:
https://cognitivetype.com/te-behaviorism-mythology/
Ni:
https://cognitivetype.com/ni-behaviorism-mythology/
Ne:
"We all have so many problems... but what is the meta-problem? The problem behind all the apparent problems? Technically, it would be called the characterial psychopathology.
The typology related to the Enneagram contributed greatly to this. There's some people who... are deeply affected, by the realization that their greatest inner enemy is fear.
...People who always knew themselves to be prudent, or insecure, or anxious... or with an excessive sense of duty... had never realized, "This is cowardice. I'm a coward."
And to be able to be a little harsh with oneself. To confront certain traits of one's own personality that are destructive; that are like enemies of one's own development, or enemies of one's own life, and to tell them, to be a little insulting, because... self-knowledge must be transformative; for it to be transformative, one has to realize that this is something that deserves to be overcome, deserves to be ignored."
---
https://youtu.be/JQ-x3W-DSkc Claudio Naranjo, "Por una política de la conciencia"
So, i just finished this game this week and i absolutely love it. I'd started to play it years ago but couldn't finish it, because it was too painful.
I just wanted to share what's maybe my favorite song in the ost, that it seems a lot of people have missed. Maybe because the name is so unassuming, people think it's one of those "filler" songs?
Anyways, i don't think any other song in the ost encapsulates NITW better than this one.
"There's a bunch of weird, broken people, saying, in their own flawed ways... you can come over. You can sit here. ...I don't know what to say, but... i'm not leaving you. I've nowhere else i'd rather be; i could be."
Therapistplusgamer on NITW (You guys should watch that youtube video)
