u/ventwhatnot

I mean it's obvious that if you're unattractive then you're also romantically/sexually undesirable.

I come from a culture where marriage and children equals a happy successful life. So I was born to fulfil a part of a "checklist of life" and not because my parents truly loved each other and wanted offspring.

My parents clearly weren't born out of love either, compounded by so much intergenerational trauma spanning back to my great grandparents being like the fucking crusades. Probably beyond that even.

There was a period where I was lamenting over my appearance so much and two different people from a crisis service would give me a talk, mentioning how my parents had to find each other attractive to be in love and have me, so did my ancestors, and so on. And I mentally DISAGREED COMPLETELY with everything. But since this was a crisis service I didn't want to go into a trauma dump and spiral it into a senseless argument

What I found was both those people were objectively attractive. So talking about my self image to them all felt ironic. Sure they may have experienced dysmorphia too but likely in the end found they were objectively attractive/average. They might still have their ups and downs, and it's okay. Meanwhile I've gone through peaks and troughs just to realize in the end I'm OBJECTIVELY BELOW AVERAGE/unattractive 🫩🫩🫩🫩

Being an unattractive poc is pure hell. I grew up being "painted" all over with endless bullying, alienation and rejection from combined lookism and racism, with one fuelling the other.

I've also been told "just get a partner!! they'll love you the most!!" But uhh that's not how it works. If I'm not even accepted platonically then romance is not even an option. As a worse matter of fact, people my age are especially cruel to me. So get together with someone double or triple my age???

We do not live in the 1900s bro so nobody is gonna want to be with me even for "the checklist."

I read a lot about how black people/women have it the worst. And as an East Asian I feel like we're not far behind, if you have particularly ethnic or unattractive features.* I hate how we have to be a 20/10 just to be considered average.

EA women are sometimes fetishized, and that's the closest I'll ever get to being "desired."

Basically using your social success (and also having SELF AWARENESS of your appearance) to determine whether you're "average/attractive" or "ugly" in the eyes of society

There's definitely other things that affect how social interactions play out for someone such as autism, social anxiety, being shy, even just not having "found your people"

But I have found myself being socially rejected horribly even in very-neurodivergent-friendly environments by authority figures AND colleagues. And that was my BREAKING POINT when I realized the "elephant in the room" was my fucking looks and not my personality all along. Meanwhile other ND fellows with a similar personality were showered with patience, understanding and acceptance. I spent weeks dreading and seething with anxiety from this realization.

I've also seen "ugly" people be socially successful, having friends and even be in relationships. But that doesn't mean ALL ugly people have a chance. We're not all ugly in the same way lol. As dysmorphic as I might sound for saying this, my ugly is looking "oddly shaped." Head shape, jaw and eye area being unharmonious, fucking everything up.

Also, There shouldn't be a "level of ugliness" you have to be to post in this subreddit. Longstanding repeated negative social experiences due to your natural genetic looks is enough, where not even weight loss, skin care etc helped.

I'm unattractive with zero dating/romantic experience but thought I'd give dating apps a try anyways. I'm also East Asian just to preface if ethnicity also affects your matching

I actively used HUD and Hinge where you can see who liked you and send messages for free (too poor for paid apps)

In total I had short conversations with 5? guys on HUD, out of the total 10+ that reached out to me.

1st guy: 23M who would just call me cute, and moved the conversation to snapchat where he just sent a bunch of snaps of himself before asking me to send one selfie. He blocked me right after on both apps. I'm confused because I already had a handful of pics on HUD? I feel like they were making fun of me 😭

2nd: He was in his 30s and local to me. And sent some interesting messages mentioning my race... (fetish related) and a potential meetup. I deleted my account shortly after because I was scared and made a new account later.

3-5th guys are age 25-40 and I would accept their message requests and they'd reach out a repeatedly over the next few days despite my slow or non responses, asking if I was still interested in online fun / my experiences, etc.

But the confusing thing is most of them were considered attractive / out of my league. There isn't a lot of women on the app so are desperate men just willing to match and hook up with even below average women??

I (unattractive) have tried reaching out to other women or men but got no responses. I want some insight into how things are normally like on dating apps 😅 and whether race affects your matching.

They’re alluding that as you continue to grow into your twenties you will (emphasis oN WILL) go through some “second Puberty” and have a magical glow up. It’s just a load of false hope

I’ve seen enough childhood photos of myself AND parents (i am sorry) to know that it’s not gonna happen.

For reference, my jaw is a square. And if anything it will just become even more SQUARE later on.

My ugly ass eye area will also not magically become attractive later just because I haven’t “fully finished developing rn”

Some people KNOW that puberty has only made them uglier, and they will most likely look even WORSE after ‘fully developing’

Acne and weight are fixable, but ugly bone structure and genetic features are not. And rhat’s what my problem is.

I live in an area with plenty of White husband-Asian wife couples and that isn't problematic in itself. But my experiences have, and I will admit, have distorted my views towards Wasian couples and how Westerners perceive East Asian women.

We're stereotyped to be petite / small / youthful / obedient.

But I'm unfortunately ugly because I'm not petite at all and just blatantly unattractive overall. "Oddly shaped but not deformed" I guess you can say. I've been a social reject all my life and it took me long enough to realise it wasn't a problem in my personality or confidence.

And funny thing is the only people who call me cute / pretty are FETISHISTIC creepy old men looking for one-off sex with Asian girls that are young but of legal age. Older white men in particular.

So it seems that East Asian women are just sex toys to them because we’re also stereotyped to be "tight" down there... It’s absolutely disgusting. If anything I am just a disposable piece of shit, even platonically.

Men find me too repulsively ugly to even interact with and they don't hesitate to show it. I tend to draw more women to me (platonically*) but even they can be very mean / malevolent, and do so in subtle ways.

Honestly speaking being an Ugly PoC is already a death sentence in itself because of colourism / racism / other physical features associated with it. You get a double whammy of disrespect and rejection because you’re ethnic.

Generally I define being ugly as a poc as: your features being very ethnic, your skin being too dark or you're just unappealing / unattractive. You just don't fit the beauty standard locally or in the Western world. because everything’s built latgely on European beauty standards.

I’m East Asian with a 3D side profile and relatively light skin which is the beauty standard in my country, but my facial features are not harmonious with each other.
I have a big head and you cannot see my ears from the front - I look like a literal BALD EGG. And I’d blame my head shape and size for catastrophizing everything else. My eyes are also very small. There’s a lot of blank space on my face that I look expressionless / have a RBF. Unattractive overall. Annoying to look at even.

Speaking anecdotally I also feel like some races [may] experience more discrimination than other races, solely for their appearances. Such as Indians and Chinese from Middle Easterners. I’m not sure whether to mention Koreans and Japanese as well considering their culture imo is more idolized. Plus Chinese and Indian populations make up most of Asia. Correct or critique me but Middle Easterner features are more close to European than traditional East Asian feahures, which generally have flatter slide profiles, noses, etc.

As an ugly East Asian:
- I was bullied relentlessly in school that I had to drop out. By boys, girls and even teachers. Non-bullies would just stare or straight up exclude me.
- I’ve been subject to copious amounts of micro aggressions, cold stares, blatant bullying by healthcare workers, police and even service workers.
- I’ve been asked the same shit over and over: were you born here? can you speak english? say [insert slur assuming i dont understand]

It feels as though I cant do anything because standing up for myself will only get me mocked more. I think we only want what we DONT have but i’d LOVE to be an ugly arab than ugly east asian…

Thank you for coming to my tangential rant 😭😭 Critique welcome

I'm not the best at translating my thought into words, but I hope my they are clear as I just want to share them.

Definition:

The Mere Exposure Effect is basically the tendency to develop a preference for something or someone primarily because you have become more familiar with it. And this got me thinking about the topic of attraction and crushes.

Scenario from a Theoretical average/attractive person POV:

When you first meet someone, if they're not conventionally attractive you may have a bad first impression / dislike of them (related to Halo Effect?) until you get to know each other more, and that's when their appearance becomes more attractive. Or when they're 'ugly,' just "bearable"...

My thoughts on the Mere Exposure Effect / Halo Effect on Ugly People:

This effect may be stronger on 'ugly' people where the dislike only intensifies over time, when the other person might view:

1. The said Ugly Person does not have good well-kept habits and mannerisms, and the theoretical Non-ugly Person celebrates an internal, silent "triumph" of their hatred for this person, because they are physically ugly AND are also HABITUALLY ugly, which fits as a 'stereotype' for ugly people. And so the hatred grows from here.
2. The Ugly Person actually has good, clean, well-kept habits and mannerisms, but it's seen as a "sad attempt" to look better / compensate for their looks, when it does nothing at all. Overall, the Non-ugly Person just finds it to be pathetic, leading to more hate for them, that is possibly stronger.

I give these perspectives based on my personal experiences with being tidy vs untidy. Even after improving my looks and habits the treatment was vastly the same, probably worse: rude and hostile or excluded and ignored.

On Love and Crushes:

I've come across a few posts / videos before talking about how ugly people don't have a 'type,' and tend to just become attracted to whoever is nice to them....because unfortunately being physically below-average compounded by the treatment you get in your life just for looking a certain way, has shown that you don't get to choose, or have much to choose from.

I had a think and I personally resonate with it a lot.

When I was younger I'd develop 'crushes' even on people I never interacted with before, such as people I observed for long enough or at first sight. Until the repeated, unprovoked bullying consumed me (which I didn't know back then was due to my looks), it turned to 'crushing' on people who were merely nice to me or people close to me like friends.

Final thoughts / ramble:

When I finally realized I was ugly I was hit with a massive wave of shame - for even DARING to be attracted to people in the first place. Because I'm NOBODY's type, and even if the exposure effect was positive and made someone be attracted me, the risk is still extremely high: being cheated on or broken up with or my partner being ridiculed for being with someone ugly as me (if they're way more attractive).

And I doubt I have a 'looksmatch' as I look very ethnic, and just very ugly and unattractive overall. And in my experience ugly people usually don't like other ugly people.

It genuinely feels like a crime to have a crush when you're ugly, or even be in the proximity of romantic topics or contexts.

Just in general if your eye area is bad you'd probably be disadvantaged in some way, but I think it can be better or worse depending on your race, and I'm East Asian so I only speak from my experiences as usual. For example, I think a 'bad' eye area as a European or West Asian is more acceptable than a bad eye area as an East Asian, in a social outgoing context.

Our eyes / eye sockets are generally smaller than other races. Small eyes by themself aren't ugly. But if they're small, monolids and very tilted or upturned in a way / triangular / just ugly-looking, you're fucked.

You get seen as a walking talking racist caricature who *looks* like they don't know any English. And you the negative attention you draw is now looks-fuelled and racist-fuelled. Your droopy ass eyelids also give you a resting bitch face so you're met with hostility.

You're a social reject in the Western world because... you look way too ethnic (which can be considered "ugly") to even "belong" here or be capable of understanding English. And that's maybe okay... you'll feel belonging in your own country. But can you imagine ALSO being a social reject in your HOME COUNTRY because you're just plain ugly? But then again it's East Asia, where the beauty standards are monstrous. Though I think it's still more acceptable to be ugly in your own country where everyone is alike.

Some beauty standards include: pale skin, high nose bridge, high brow bone, big eyes / double eyelids, small face / forehead. I have the first three, so a relatively "3D" side profile, but my face and appearance as a whole are still ugly because of eye area [and just a massive fucking head with so much blank space making me look like a roblox head].

You can absolutely have small eyes and be beautiful if your other features aren't ugly and your skull isn't ugly.

Pic 2-4 are taken close up. Pics 1, 5-6 are my resting eyes taken from a distance, depicting the accurate size. I cannot look upwards without looking particularly angry.

I've been told before to my face and online countless times that I look like a boy or just don't look like a girl / feminine. I also don't wear makeup, which *can* excuse it sometimes but my problem lays within all my features. From my eye area to my fucking hairline and VOICE that is deep. Don't even get me started on my body because I'm COMPLETELY curveless. All my body proportions (which I don't want to get into too much detail) match literally that of a man's.

It's getting worse and worse as I get older that I look masculine, because as a little kid I barely passed as a girl and "cute." I have a massive fucking forehead from my hairline being SOOO far back that I'm permanently stuck with having my hair done in ONE style: a low, loose ponytail. My head shape is abhorrent and slicking back makes me look like a block head like the ones you see in roblox avatars. You can't even see my ears because they're pinned back and so far back my head.

I'm also POC so that adds fuel to the already BLAZING FOREST FIRE. I almost resemble a racist caricature from my pretty ethnic features and have been subject to shitty treatment all my life just for looking the way I do. I used to think it was just racism until no, I'm just unfortunate to be an UGLY person of colour groundlessly deserving of hatred, and that not everyone from my race was treated badly. It had turned out to be that I'm UGLY which caused the RACISM.

I've been a tomboy for most of my life from external influences which sounds like it goes well with my boyish face and body appearance, but there are still times I wish I could throw on a dress, put on makeup or be able to do my hair differently without second thoughts. I MEAN IT when I say I look fucking ugly in almost every outfit out there even hoodies or t-shirts because there's something fundamentally "wrong" with my appearance. I'm UGLY, FULL STOP.

I'm coincidentally also autistic on top on being UGLY. So take a moment to let that sink in: how you're socially doomed beyond help from the beginning if you're both ugly and autistic, with poor social skills. But the same could be said if you're just ugly. Being ugly can be, in my opinion, disabling.

I grew up in the face of social rejection almost everywhere I went. Lengthy inquisitive stares; visibly disgusted looks even, both blatant and covert bullying from boys and girls at school, being treated differently for no reason by teachers, and later as I got older, getting laughed at and called ugly in different ways by law enforcement, doctors, service workers and so on.

I never knew WHY I was being rejected even after I put myself out there more, with a mask of confidence. Doing so only caused people to get annoyed af with me for seemingly NO REASON, getting laughed at or straight up ignored. And being East Asian with relatively ethnic-looking features, it's put me in an immovable position of being seen as stupid or unable to speak English.

I have younger siblings and I seriously worried they would face the same rejection as me when they'd enter middle and high school, to the point of DROPPING OUT WITH NO FRIENDS, until that never happened.

They were socially successful in primary school and continued being socially successful in middle school onwards. They're socially accepted by peers around them, able to make and keep friends despite also being shy like me and being invited on outings.

My siblings' confidence and courage to just go out to wherever they want, wearing whatever they want without feeling judged just reflects how they weren't tossed weird looks or shitty treatment growing up that would socially scar them for life.

It gets to a point where being ugly doesn't just disable you socially. It disables you COMPLETELY when mental (and physical) health problems from repeated social rejection disables the crap out of you over time.