r/excatholic

Hey all,

I’m struggling to pick out readings for my grandmother out of our former church’s recommendations for so many reasons. First off, hardly any of them seem to focus women. My grandmother is not a “brother,” nor as a closeted ex-Catholic do I feel the emphasis of these readings should be about a man saving her. Lol. I will tolerate mentioning of the Lord as an abstract concept, but it just doesn’t sit well with me to talk about “The Father” for most of a passage. And it seems like the father talk comes out anytime “brothers and sisters” is mentioned. For the New Testament reading, it seems like it will be hard to avoid Jesus, but I’d prefer if that were minimized as it feels a little too impersonal.

I’m also not really a fan of anything with a “judgment day” or much talk of the wicked or sinners or people being condemned for not having blind faith. She was really a saint and a sweet lady. I’d like her to just be venerated and not compared.

I don’t know. I know a lot of us haven’t picked up a Bible for a long time, but I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations. If not, thank you for listening to my gripe. I realize nothing will be perfect for my needs here, so if it fits some of the boxes, I’d be happy.

Hi guys, My older brother (23) is very strongly catholic and goes to church multiple times every week. He is so catholic that he doesn’t believe the current pope is the real pope and believes he is the anti-pope (something about the Catholic Church being better before the 60s and becoming too accepting of sinful behaviour after the 80s?). My brother no longer lives with us but comes over every weekend for dinner. we are very accepting of his religious practices - we let him say grace before our meal and we all say amen at the end, we have gone to some of his church events to support him, we accommodated to his lent needs when he cut out sugar and we didn’t make any weekend desserts during that time so he wouldn’t feel left out. Recently he has told us that he believes my mum, my dad, and I are going to hell because we are not Catholic. My brother became catholic about 3 years ago. No one else in our family is Catholic. My parents identify as Christians (not specifically catholic or anything) they do not read the bible or go to church but believe in god. I love my parents so much. They are very kind and accepting people. We have such meaningful conversations. I (19) am not religious. This does not stop me from striving to be a moral and kind person. I truly believe everyones purpose in life is to show love and compassion towards each other and other beings on the planet. I always try to understand and view peoples experiences and reasoning behind their behaviours from an empathetic nonjudgmental view. It hurts my feelings so much that my brother believes I’m going to hell. My parents are also hurt but have told me to just not care about what my brother thinks of me. I’m having trouble doing this. I value what any of my family members think about me. The fact that I strive to be this kind and moral person and my brother still thinks im going to hell just because im not Catholic is making me sad. Especially after all the times I have helped him with things and shown compassion towards him. He has told us he will never attend any of our weddings or funerals unless they are catholic because he cannot accept our practices as legitimate. I’m gay so I have already accepted a long time ago that my brother would never want to go to my wedding. I really wish we had a better relationship but I understand I cannot change his beliefs. Any advice on how to deal with feeling hurt and how to interact with my brother at weekend dinners going forward would be appreciated. thank you guys.

Leo dealin’ out some mealy-mouthed smackdowns, not even having the balls to call them “purported consecrations.” If you’re gonna excommunicate the whole lot, call them false, Leo! Do Lion shit!

48 hours out of the Church and they’re in schism. I’m gonna just assume I was a secret load-bearing member of the church. I have as much evidence of that as they do of Apostolic Succession.

I shed no tears for the crazies in SSPX; they had this coming. But SSPX aside, does anyone else find the idea of excommunication itself to be weird? It feels like a reminder that that the church’s authority is based on a mixture of psychological intimidation or coercion.

Excommunication matters only if you believe in the authority of the church hierarchy. If Leo or some bishop stood in front of me today as a 44-year old man and said, “OK_Ice7596, you are now excommunicated,” my response would be “Bye, Felicia!” followed by snorted laughter. They have zero authority over me and not interested in what they of me as a person.

But I also recognize that my 16 or 17-year old self would have been devastated by the same scenario, because the church had mental sway over me at that point. I had to deprogram myself from the cult, and it took time to realize that I had the power to do that.

What it says on the tin. We’re a community for ex-Catholics, but I contemplate that as a place for people willingly leaving the Church (or I suppose thrown out for ‘Catholicism is shitty’ reasons), not for people thrown out for ‘Catholicism isn’t medieval enough’ reasons.

Are SSPX under excommunication allowed here if they don’t defend the church or otherwise break the rules?

Edit: Just asking about a potential loophole in the rules. I’m wondering if we need to cut it off before it becomes a problem.

It’s honestly so tiring of people making up excuses to why people don’t pay attention or are bored in church especially the Catholic Church. One time when I wast catechism, the catechumen made up some excuse on how the devil was making her not pay attention at church. Talking about on how her mind drifted to other places like thinking of what to eat after and etc. The real reason people don’t pay attention in churches because it’s boring and they literally just straight out talk about nonsense. When I was at church the priests would talk about how god lets evil stuff happen. The thing is, is that they wouldn’t elaborate on why god does let evil stuff happen. They would just tell how god feels and never explain the question they first brought up.

It’s honestly so tiring. People even wanna say people get bored at church because their spirit is dry like 😑

Now including excommunications not just for the clergy, but for the faithful adherents to the schism!

I don't really have a dog in this fight because at the end of the day it's all just one big LARP, but I'm sort of glad at this direction the SSPX is taking?

It's nice to finally see a reactionary wing of the Church formally be declared schismatic. At least this formal schism leaves no doubt about the SSPX's canonical position in the Church, with no leeway giving them any plausible deniability as to whether they are in or out of the Church.

It's a somewhat satisfying conclusion to the "will they or won't they" that has been going on for the last 17 years since Benedict XVI lifted the excommunications stemming from the 1988 consecrations. At least now they can LARP away in lace without strings attached? Idk lol.

I used to enjoy Church news. The whole Kremlinology of it all. The gossip, the rumors. It was kinda fun. Watching my still-Catholic friends tittering over the SSPX consecrations today I just feel sick to my stomach.

All of these doctrinal arguments seem so petty and childish now, but I know they’re going to cause real pain to some. I’ve never been one to celebrate another’s pain, but the sympathy still stings.

Anyway, Fuck SSPX though

It’s funny that I’m back here again after just a few days, but it was great fun. I’ve learnt so much from my last post and your answers :D that I’d like to tackle another problem. This one’s very short too. I was on a Discord server back then in the self-improvement section and believed the people there because a lot of the advice – like ‘do strength training’ or ‘get enough sleep’ and so on – actually works, so you just give them the benefit of the doubt, thinking, ‘Hey, they really do know what they’re on about.’ Then, at some point, I heard them talking about religious stuff too and I completely fell for it. It all came down very quickly to the idea that there’s no other true faith apart from Catholicism, and then they had these really, really long texts ready, with all this ‘evidence’ to prove, for example, that the Exodus was real, that the Shroud of Turin is genuine, that Marian apparitions are real, and that the ancient scriptures all show that it makes logical, internal sense that the universe is finely tuned (Firstly, that’s not true – most of it would kill us instantly, and if it is designed for one thing, it’s for the formation of black holes.) That, for example, is exactly the point I learnt after a friend who knows a lot about this sort of thing had a look at it and told me, ‘Hey, they’re completely taking the mick out of you.’

And ever since then, I’ve also been keen to further my education, particularly on topics like these (space, origion of live, science etc), and I always say that education is the enemy of ignorance.

And my main question would be – because I always feel, so to speak, a little better about it – that when I used to go to church, "I had divine experiences" , and when I soemtimes attended Catholic services (I had no prior experience of it because I come from the Protestant Church, which here in Germany is quite different from the one in the USA (its better)), whether when they were singing or during evening services – those were divine experiences. I just need some reassurance as to (mentioned in the previous post they can’t possibly be true) if they were "real" → "the feeling of something greater, connection, spine chill and similar" and if I need to be afraid of them." Because if it were true, I’d have to believe it too, as it’s become clear that I really did meet God and if he is real i have to follow him because thats the only way." That is scaring me all the time, i dont want to go to hell.

Whenever I see a religious post, spot a cross somewhere, or something bad happens to me, I always think, ‘Oh God, is trying to tell me something?’. The whole thing is a bit strange, actually, because I’m not religious myself, and I only started believing because I used to believe in something like fate – but that was really just confirmation bias in the end. And i cannot free myself from these things. And yes i have Something close to ADHD, but its not ADHD - meaning these patterns of thinking and feeling are not that uncommon in me at all.

And it’s precisely these patterns of thought that sometimes prevent me from breaking free from certain religious beliefs, for For example, I always think: ‘Oh yes, you can’t explain marian apparitions with science (yet!!!) – at least some of the well-known ones – so it must have been true; or you can’t explain the circumstances surrounding the empty tomb, so it must be historical; and (imagine apologists saying that): it’s not possible to explain it naturally because, after all, different traditions could never have come together and formed something like that and it was all written so early or they just recited what jesus said perfectly and chrcked themselves each other so they could remember everything.’

At this point, as this doesn’t really belong here anymore, I’ll send in my theories on the subject of the empty tomb at the end. And I just want to hope that it didn’t happen, because I simply don’t want to believe that anything supernatural exists.

And especially as, like everyone else, I’ve done bad things → i feel like ’m not a good person because I don’t go to confession. And some things are marks on me forever, for example, the fact that I used to bully people at school and was bullied too (but these were seperate things) – though that was a very long time ago and I can’t find some of them anymore , so I can’t apologise to them. I think these are just school problems, which isn’t good at all still, but in fact I’m also against that sort of thing these days, because I’m involved in lots of projects that help children and promote peace globally.

I’m not even doing it to ‘make amends’, so to speak – that would actually be a side effect – but simply because I enjoy it and I have a humanistic world view and believe that we should help people, animals and nature. That was also something I asked myself: ‘Yes, but what if I do have that kind of view? Surely it must come from God?’ But I’ve already found an answer to that: it’s simply that, For example, as a small child, I’d rather play with animals than see them on my plate; that’s why it makes me really sad to see fish – they’re actually so cute – and I didn’t want to eat them at all. Besides that morality has clearly and proven developed among people and cultures and is constantly changing and different among the world. And yes there are actually People that do not find murder all that wrong.

Empty Tomb Corner🎷🐛🌿🦣

To Arguments, actually there are some interesting ones regarding the tomb.

Of course, we only have some of the material we can work with, and we can't rule out the possibility that bits of text were lost or that something else happened in the meantime, but that's just what a naturalistic explanation entails - it's rooted in reality. But what always bothers me is how it can all fit together: that there was a Joseph, and that there was the story about the women. And I'd really bet that at least one of these things - if not all of them - has been greatly exaggerated to the point of becoming the stuff of legend. Of course, it's not that these people deliberately told something false; it was simply their beliefs, or rather the way the story developed over time.

Or the fact that there really is historical evidence that those who were crucified were not released but simply left on the cross also why would pilate do that???! And even when he was given to be put into the tomb - everything after the burial could still be complete bonkers too. And yet it's still a more plausible explanation than something supernatural having happened; but on the other hand, I just don't understand why people would concoct a story like that. I'm not saying it's impossible at all, it's just incredibly illogical. And to be honest, I think the bit about the women is absolutely true. Because it could simply be that women, who were very important in the early movement, found the wrong tomb or thought it was empty, and that they are simply the basis of this myth. And I would almost go so far as to say that that is the basis of it.

Temporary burial and subsequent reburial Many historians consider this more plausible than the theory of a false tomb. Jesus is initially buried in haste (because of the Sabbath). Later, the body is moved to another location (e.g. a communal grave). The women go to the first site and find it empty.

Joseph of Arimathea existed, but the tomb was only temporary Joseph makes his tomb available at short notice. The body is later reburied. This information does not reach the disciples. Over time, the tradition of a permanently empty tomb develops.

No honourable burial, later tomb tradition This is a hypothesis discussed by, amongst others, John Dominic Crossan and, to some extent, Bart D. Ehrman. Jesus is not laid in a private tomb after the crucifixion. Later, a tradition develops that he was buried with honour. This burial tradition eventually becomes linked to a narrative of the empty tomb.

Several traditions merge There is a local tradition concerning women at the tomb. In another place, reports of apparitions are circulating. Elsewhere again, stories are told about Joseph of Arimathea. When the Gospels were written, these traditions were woven together into a coherent narrative.

And not to forget "my" funny theories:

A hoax, and in reality there was either a real tomb or a fake one

Cannibalism (think of the my body and blood part regarding bread and wine)

People who thought, 'No, this is too important to us; we're actually going to take the body with us!

Jesus did not exist (actually, that one is probably not true, and he most certainly did exist, at the very least)

The Romans changing the location

Mistakes

Eartquake??!

If you don't obey God, you face eternal torture, and if you do obey God, you give up a lot of Earthly desires, miss out on a lot of opportunities in life, and the reward is a life where you have even less Earthly desires (There's no way your favorite movies, TV shows and video games will be in Heaven since there's no violence and no conflict there, and not every person you love will be in Heaven). Both choices involve losing something, but at least one loss is smaller than the other.

I’m wondering if anyone else (especially anyone here who is LGBTQIA+) maybe relates to this feeling or had this experience. I was outed by a dorm roommate several years ago after my southern Baptist roommate found a Polaroid I had hid of my ex and I before we left for college. I truly believe the only reason my parents didn’t kick me out at the time and cut me out of their lives is because they know what I’m studying can make a good bit of money and they don’t trust my siblings to ensure they are cared for as they age.

I think it’s funny but also sad that I view my parents house very similar to how I view the Catholic Church. I spent so many years of my life praying to God to fix me that eventually it became habit, and now when I’m very stressed I still go to church and/or pray, even though I truly don’t know after all of this if there even is a God out there, and I know if there is that my prayers are not reaching him. Similarly, despite the anger and hostility I face at home, I just want to go back there. Even when I know I’ll be blamed, when I know the commentary they make, all I want to do is be home. In both settings I know I’m not welcome, but I honestly don’t know how to leave it. In a matter of days a few years ago, I’d lost my family, my faith, and almost all my friends. And yet (other than my friends) I just don’t know how to leave those spaces. It’s like some sort of fucked up security blanket where I’m trying to touch fire just to feel warm again. Has anyone else been here before? What do you do? I thought time would fix it, but after almost 4 years, as I’ve slowly started replacing “Catholic” with “somewhat spiritual” and have gone to pride events and have tried to embrace this all, I still just can’t bring myself to leave the scraps of home I still have. And I don’t know why.

My daughter is seven. I had her at 20 and lived with my parents the first year of her life. I got her baptized, (because that was their expectation) and she even got anointing of the sick en utero during my high risk pregnancy. Since then I’ve moved a few hours away, been successful on my own, and I’ve become more confident in my choice of not following the church, which shouldn’t come to a shock to my parents as I stopped going to church with them years ago expect for holidays and answer with “I’ll keep them in my thoughts” to prayer requests. My daughter talks occasionally about god, and recently I opened up to her about my beliefs, based more in science. I have since followed up and told her I still respect and love people with different beliefs, and it’s okay for her to explore others beliefs and one day she can decide for herself what she wants to believe. Well she recently spent a weekend at my parents, and my mom informed me she blurted out at dinner “did you know mom doesn’t believe in god?” They apparently said you must be mistaken and she doubled down and said “no, she believes in science” my mom asked if it was true. I said yes. She acted shocked, sad, and doesn’t understand of course and asked if she had done anything wrong. I said no, I just don’t want religion presented as fact to her. My mom said “I just don’t understand that after all the times He has touched her life… you don’t believe he has?” I said “no, I think there’s a lot of other reasonable explanations” And I told her I’ve felt this way for a long time. She also said “after everything she has gone through this year I don’t think this is the time to remove god from the equation” (me and her father separated last year).… so that struck a nerve as if I’m not putting her best interest first. Anyway at first I felt empowered to finally speak the truth, even if not by my own accord. That empowered feeling lasted about half a day, then turned to sadness. It’s sad that showing your parents the real you sometimes comes at the cost of breaking their hearts. I just know they are hurting sitting with this info and probably taking it as a mortal failure. This is all fresh, and I’m still processing. Guess I’m just looking to see if anyone has been in similar situation and how they navigated it as I’m sure there will be more convos with both my parents and daughter to follow.

For those unfamiliar Benedictine college is one of the extremely conservative Catholic institutions in the US.

I wanted to become a father more than anything in the entire world.

I worked day and night to save up as much money as I could, ran schemes to make even more money, bought nice suits, paid for dates for literally anything they wanted (even if it cost thousands of dollars), got cosmetic enhancements, etc. I could not for the life of me find a single date in the US. I moved overseas for a few years and even today I average about 10 likes a day on the dating app I use which I think is pretty good for a man.

I had a girlfriend and would pamper her in any way I could and still it wasn't enough. I don't really know what it was but she just bailed after I had invested thousands of dollars into our relationship hoping for a quick marriage and child.

After that, I came back to the US and figured I would look into adoption and since Catholicism is so pro-adoption even as a "fallen Catholic" I was still friendly with my local rector and asked for his advice. He scolded me for wanting to adopt while not being married and basically said "Well I guess you're screwed. Have fun being single."

I did not like that answer, so I learned more about the process in my own time. TLDR is no amount of money can ensure a successful adoption journey for a single man. Bummer.

So then I returned to the last resort option I had considered as my contingency of contingencies. I turned to egg donation and surrogacy. I shopped around for a reliable agency and yes it is EXPENSIVE but so worth it. I found a wonderful woman to be my egg donor and will soon be assigned a surrogate and I'm so excited to finally be able to fulfill my dream of being a parent without shuffling through the trash that is modern dating.

If you have the means, I really do highly recommend single parentage by choice. The outcomes of children of SPBC are comparable to dual parent households thanks to better economic circumstances, so I really think there isn't a great excuse to gatekeep parentage anymore to those who really desire it.

I'm over it. Beyond over it. I've had my moment and I think I've completely cracked at this point. I'm a very, lets say "Socratic" person in that I'm willing to entertain things for a long time, which has taken me to many strange places and given me many different experiences. But, unfortunately, if you're not geared up in propaganda, that mindset will get you lost in people's bullshit if not applied appropriately. I've decided, likewise, that I've had enough.

It's such a clusterfuck. Conservatives call everything demonic while simultaneously being this unholy writhing Cthulu alliance of people. Lets start with the Russian Orthodox Church, which is led by billionaire Patriach Kiril of Moscow, who blessed the butchery of Ukrainian Orthodox children.

These people then find political alliance with trad Catholics who are borderline in schism with the Pope, despite their "tradness" implying a strong adherence to rules, such as papal infallibility. "We want papal infallibility, so as long as the pope is owning woke people and affirming our creepy blood-soaked mysticism that is indistinguishable from new age channeling and occultism." Padre Pio (who screamed at people and gave them intense, harsh penances) and Mother Teresa could apparently bilocate. You know who else could supposedly do this? Aleister Crowley. All three of these individuals make me uneasy.

I'm also tired of the "moderate" pretenders too, like Jordan Peterson. Jonathan Pageau falls into this category as well, especially, pretending to be moderate, while simultaneously posting a video about Jesus not being "all kind and nice" and equating that to rejecting immigrants... shortly after Alex Pretti got shot.

I'm tired of this space. Tired. Tired of the superstition, the worship of magic and fantasy over the love of one's fellow. I'm tired of the fear mongering, the same old stuff that so consistently and utterly amounts to "every accusation is a confession," like "there's this shadowy global elite controlling everything." Yeah, like Peter Thiel, Elon Musk, Vladimir Putin, Patriarch Kiril - funding people like Jay Dyer. Who is working on AI and mass surveillance? Who is funding massive amounts of propaganda? Who is claiming the rise of the antichrist while inverting Christ's message of Love?

Christian Brothers sold real estate worth millions for $1. Now it claims in court it lacks money to pay abuse survivors. Since 2007 they have been transferring assets to another entity now worth billions.

Just wanted to share a positive story with someone…

I (50s F) was born to a mom (70s F) who was raised Catholic and a dad (70s M) who converted to Catholicism. I was raised Catholic but left the church years ago and am an atheist. My parents have continued to attend Catholic church for years. My mom is a more liberal Catholic (pro choice pro gay rights). My dad is more conservative but did fully accept my gay daughter (20s F) when she came out at 15. They are now attending an Episcopal church with a woman minister. They are very happy about going to a church that accepts everyone.

I just assumed they would continue going to a Catholic church until they die, so I was pretty happy they took a step away.