r/excatholic

I was raised extremely Irish Catholic, and sent to a very small Catholic school from age 5. When I was 7, one of my cousins went through an awful battle with cancer. She was older (18 when diagnosed) but I was pretty close to her. She could have gone professional with show jumping if she hadn't gotten sick, and I was starting to compete in local horse riding competitions, so I really looked up to her.

She died about a year later, and it was then that it just kind of dawned on me that the religion I was being taught was all a load of rubbish. My aunt--dead cousin's mother--was (and still is) the most devout Catholic I've ever known. She's had an absolutely shit life from the get go, too much to type. Basically: mentally ill woman in rural Ireland in the 50s/60s and it goes just as badly as you think it can.

I thought I was a freak for not believing in God. All the adults around me were pretty insistent that their religion was true, and none of my peers questioned it. It was a few years before I encountered someone who was also an atheist.

Anyone else have a similar experience when you were really young, that made you totally reject Catholicism?

TW: SH/suicide. This is pasted from another women centered sub but I was referred here by another user for support because I am wavering on leaving.

This one is a rant. I go onto these subs because I wanted to explore more about faith. When I chat to Christian women in person, they are usually very lovely and open to modern non-traditional views (childfree, not marrying, focusing on our own journey outside of men). I do not see how being childfree or wanting not to marry affects anyones faith with God.

Reddit is know for attracting controvesy and annoying commenters who invalidate/inflame arguments, I expect that, but this blew my mind.

I made a post asking SPECIFICALLY women who are childfree and Christian how they live their life, the reasons why (mine was trauma and health concerns), and how they navigate that. It immediately got brigaded by men downvoting the post and judging me for being childfree. They had the audacity to comment on a post that was nothing to do with them. They wanted me to elaborate. I said I had previous experiences with narcissistic abusive men who wear a mask until they tie down a woman. For Catholics, it's very tricky to get an annulment. So imagine being tied for life with a man who is covertly abusive with kids and being unable to prove it.

What shocked me, is I mentioned my previous trauma experiences with men led me to almost suicide, and I hated seeing my own mother get reduced to self-sacrifice of childrearing, and homemaking. She died miserable. That got immediately downvoted, some defensive comments from men that I will change my mind, and that being child-free is "anti-life". Wow. Of course they are personally offended that fellow Chrisitian women are out there refusing to bear their kids.

I never asked men to comment, I never asked for their opinion, I DIRECTED that post for women and they just can't leave us alone.

I have been on edge with my faith because it is well known it attracts misogynistic and patriarchal men sadly by its very structure - I ackowledge that. Those downvotes signal to me that a woman exercising her autonomy over her body and life trigger religious men so much. It's like a woman is not allowed to have her own fears, and is expected to push through and self-sacrifice for this traditional life route even if it goes against what she wants out of life (edit: to even the detriment of her own health). There is nothing in the Catholic faith that dictates a woman must be married and have kids. I confirmed that with our priest.

This sort of attitude is what is driving women away from religion, edit: sorry it wasn't clear, I am heavily debating leaving because of these patterns I am noticing.

I’ve been trying to figure out the best way to deal with my cognitive dissonance of my absolute hate for organized religion and my Catholic upbringing influencing my thought process here.

My background/ summary: Born, raised, baptized, communion, confirmed, former alter girl, Catholic private school K-4 here. My parents met on a Catholic dating site— divorced when I was 2 after 5 years together (my dad’s second marriage..).

Grandparents are super Catholic and religious— they are super important to me. My mother struggles with addiction to pain pills and my father struggles with being a parent— so my grandparents raised me around 6th grade and have become my “parents” while I attempt to maintain some type of relationship with my actual parents. I was neglected by my parents and diagnosed with Childhood PTSD.

My grandmother has been a role model/rock over the decades but her influence hasn’t always been positive: example— made me believe “my body was like tissue, no man wants a used tissue” so if I have sex before marriage nobody would want me. This led to me staying in an emotionally abusive and coercive relationship at a young age. This mindset made me believe I wasn’t going to loved by God or anyone since I had sex with this guy—therefore I had to stay and work it out at all cost. Lost 7 years of my life to this toxic relationship. Some would say why do you still love my grandmother after the damage she has caused— because I do. On to my issue.

My problem: I just had a baby boy and part of me wants to get him baptized but NOT in the Catholic Church. I was considering getting it done through the Methodist church even though I don’t like organized religion.

My thoughts:

Through years of conditioning, I cannot shake the anxiety (which I have a diagnosis of along with ADHD and depression) that if I don’t baptize my baby, his soul won’t be protected. My husband grew up Church of Christ and has completely deprogrammed from Christianity, he’s agnostic. I, however, like some of the positive aspects of church like the community, serving others in need, you know, the things they teach in bible school but the Church completely contradicts in real life. I believe in loving everyone, helping others, being a decent human being, and acceptance that religion is a cultural practice— God as a concept can be the same but worship differently depending on your religion.

Circling back to my problem, I have spent years deconstructing my attachment to the ritual part of Church which has been extremely hard. Seeing as I don’t regularly attend any church, I’m still trying to grasp with how I want to raise my child with some type of faith but also a healthy dose of skepticism of those who claim to be “working in the name of God or Jesus”. And I know baptism would mean a lot to my family but I also don’t think I can bring myself to commit my child to any church because of the negative aspects it has.

Has anyone else dealt with this situation? I also understand and want to make clear I know that the Church has done many abhorrent things— I do not support them in any way. I still have faith in a higher power but I just don’t prescribe to any particular version.

On the plus side, I got more calm over time and I've been judging way way less

I gotta admit the truth: there's really just a few more reasons why I decided to become a traditionalist Catholic just a few years ago

I didn't want to be seen as a "liberal degenerate" anymore and I didn't want to attract women like that anymore either. I really thought that it was the antidote of what I was going through at the time: this heartbreak with a girl that I fell hard for and even had sex with her

so, it doesn't really help to find out that what's been described as "heaven on earth" when you go in, HOLY FUCKING SHIT: its gotten even more neurotic and makes me want to kill myself, which I refuse to; my own life has value and I rather not surround myself with people who want to ruin that on purpose while they swear that they're going straight to heaven on business class just because they went to the most traditionalist Catholic mass they can ever find.

It sure doesn't help when you're told "oh, you're not a virgin? Don't date a virgin". Aright bet, I'll just stay out of your way then; just go for men who haven't got laid at all before marriage

I happen to have quite the liberal view on sex by the way. Does that make me a degenerate? Maybe lol at least I rather own up to it nowadays, instead of playing pretend and trying to fit in to some group that don't even like men like me in the end

There's even one other thing that I find hilarious: over the course of the past year, I've had some Catholics out there, especially MEN, who try super hard to reel me back in while acting like they're "sad" for me, even after I said nicely "I decline but thank you"

"ohhh i'll pray for you!! The church needs you! I hope you return to us! You're a baptized Catholic; you'll always be a Catholic"

That's what infuriates me even more. After I clearly said no, they somehow ignore that "no" like a slimy Primerica salesman and they try that hard to coerce you to "come back to the family" or worse: somehow turning that "no" into a "yes"...the way I see it: if your crush rejects you by saying "no", IT MEANS FUCKING NO.

Men like me just want to win: I suppose its a start to actively defend such a boundary of mine from dolts like that.

I tried that super bAsEd and super trad catholic life for 4 years...that's not for me at all. I'm not that kind of a cat at all and frankly, I'm still alive and well without anything remotely Catholic in my life. That's okay if you ask me; maybe I'm crazy for stating such a things but believe me, I've been told even crazier, darker, and especially even more fucked.

What I've stated is not even remotely close. I just got indifferent in a way

Now I still believe that God exists, all right:nowadays I just think the Catholic Church is not what its made out to be unless you hate yourself lmao

That's why I haven't been back to church since last February. It's my decision, my boundary; its like Mordor: don't cross the motherfucker, please.

For those who ultimately respect my decision, I can get with that. If not, fuck right off.

I'm curious if you can go to a Catholic college and come out of it without becoming even more religious. My family member is attending a small liberal arts Catholic school in the fall. This kid is brilliant, kind, and introspective. But Catholicism has been force fed to them their entire life. So much so that they chose a college based on which one was the most Catholic option. They are extremely pro-life (opposed to birth control and all abortion) and struggle with accepting those that identify as LGBTQ+ (including cousins that they used to be very close to, but now are distant). I adore this kid and was so hopeful that once they left the control of their parents they'd be able to separate themselves from the tight grip the church has on them, but now I'm not so sure! As of right now, they intend to choose a career based on their faith and have lots of babies. Curious if any of you were in the same situation but were able to snap out of it before it was too late.

Even after leaving the church I had these vague feelings that the Catholic Church had a lot of wisdom about sexual teachings and fear that since I wasn’t following them it would ruin my marriage.

Well, a few situations have made me so incredibly grateful not to be Catholic. They also made me realize how ridiculous it is for sex rules to be made up by the people who supposedly never have sex and who never have families.

Intimacy: Like many couples post childbirth- when my husband and I tried  PIV sex it was too painful initially. But other kinds of sex were great and very enjoyable for both of us. However, if the penis doesn’t ejaculate in the vagina during sex, the whole act is perverted -according to some ancient guys. I am so glad not to have that pressure to basically do nothing or full throttle. I hate to think how many Catholic women have sex ruined for them because it’s associated with pain and white knuckling through it instead of seeing what their body can handle and slowly restarting intimacy / enjoying sex together without the pressure of doing it a specific way.

Reading a post on the Catholic subreddit (EDIT: initially linked a post but removed link once I learned you’re not supposed to include) made me so sad & frustrated because the woman was not Catholic during her first pregnancy and had a positive experience restarting intimacy postpartum, but is wondering what she can do now that she’s Catholic. One of the things she says that I found to be spot on is: “I'm really struggling to find adequate answers or explanations for what to do in more specific circumstances regarding sexual intimacy, as pretty much everything that pops up online is just explaining the general rules around sex rather than getting into the nitty-gritty of real life.” This is because the rules were made up by people who were never pregnant!!! All of the answers to this are basically “yeah same, it sucks, there must be something we’re missing.”

Family Planning: I had an emergency c-section, and although we plan to have another baby the risks of uterine rupture decrease significantly if you wait a specified amount of time to get pregnant again. The NFP stuff gets really complicated with breastfeeding. I read a super depressing post in the Catholic subreddit where a lady had had 5 c-sections and her doctor begged her not to get pregnant again as her chance of death was so high. She had been trying to do NFP for years but the last 2 babies were unplanned (& very high risk) pregnancies. The answer from all the Catholic people was basically “that’s rough, sorry about that. Just don’t have sex till you go through menopause. There were several comment saying things like “Mary and Joseph never had sex, priests never have sex, offer it up, it’s difficult but you can do it.” I was legitimately horrified by this lady’s situation. Somehow it would be better for her marriage if they just didn’t have sex for 5+ years, than if the husband just got a vasectomy???

I'm a cradle catholic inquiring back into Catholicism, one thing that I have learned few days ago and that raised for me many questions is the fact that my marriage is invalid because I was baptized Catholic and married outside of the Church.

Due to what is called lack of canonical form basically my marriage is for the Catholic Church non-existent. I understand the purpose of Canon Law but I don't understand the logic behind the fact that one former Catholic + one protestant/atheist etc. = invalid marriage, but if two protestants etc. marry outside of the Church, theirs is valid.

I ask here because on r/catholicism I would get standard answers such as : "ask to a priest" or "you have to convalidate or radical sanation", I would like answers from people that are a bit more critical or maybe that have been in the same situation

Cradle Catholic (now ex) and have been slowly deconstructing for the last 15-30 years. I would consider myself an agnostic atheist now, however the religion is a core part of my family and therefore I haven’t shared this part with my parents. My mom and all her 6 siblings are all devout Catholics, my uncle is even a bishop. My kids attend Catholic school as our local public school is not great and imo not safe, so we’ve opted for Catholic school for their education despite the fact that hubby and I are atheists. I am sure we’ll get flack for this but this is the best decision for us, and I am very happy with the school.

The more a I deconstruct the more preposterous the entire faith has become to me. My parents are both incredibly smart and educated people and so much of me wants to share all the bull*** with them so they too can see how insane this institution is. That said, they’re in their 80s. This is an important part of their lives. Do I just keep performing and pretending we are semi -practicing Catholics and let them live in their land of delulu? My heart tells me it’s selfish to burst their bubble esp in their old age and as they near the end and may find comfort in their faith and fake afterlife. But I’m also exhausted from pretending. Wwyd? Tia 🙏🏻

Full disclosure I was not raised Catholic but I lurk here because Catholicism is big where I live and I’m fascinated by it. I know a few large families with 7 or more children (United States).

Are these families healthy, happy and thriving? Are the wives ok? I have only one child so I’m fascinated at how these families work.

Hello all,

This is a new experience for me but I truly feel this was my last straw. This is going to be a long rant and I’m sorry. Idk if people will really read this but it’s good to know that there’s a sub here that may have people with similar experiences. I have been a Catholic my whole life. Attended Saturday School as we call it at my church in Los Angeles when I was young. Started going to Catholic School in 3rd grade up until high school. Learned how to pray maybe just not long after I was able to form complete sentences as a child. Have Catholic symbols in my room by way of Santo Nino, St. Thomas Aquinas, Mother Mary, and of course Jesus. My dad would always remind me to pray every night to which I did even when I moved out and left for college when he couldn’t remind me daily. However, after today I truly feel that God does not care and if he has a “plan” for me, I’m not going through with that bullshit.

As mentioned, I was Catholic born and raised but up until recently I began to start doubting my faith and this morning was truly the last straw. I also looked back on all the good and bad that’s gone in my life to determine if I truly have been “punished” and “rewarded” for being a good Catholic. My family has never been perfect and I can tell you, with all the anger towards each other and resentment some of my family has, it’s the first thing that started making me think God isn’t real. My sister died a week after she was born back in 2002 and it left my mom in the deepest state of depression she’s ever been. More so than now. My dad while successful has also had a lot more downs than ups and I’m starting to think his ups aren’t because of God’s help but by his own perseverance. Lastly for family problems, my mom’s side of the family had the biggest infighting ever back in 2023 right as I’m applying and getting ready for law school. My grandpa, bought two duplexes back in LA across the street from each other when he first emigrated the family to America from the Philippines. My family grew up in one of the duplexes and the one across the street was occupied by other family, family friends, and for my entire childhood and up until I graduated college my family and I moved there. He had the dream of his children and grandchildren to own the two homes in the future. Well that dream came crashing down when his wife (my honestly horrible Grandma) sold the house out of spite of my mom and one of her sisters. My other aunt (the eldest) supported selling the houses which in turn left my other aunt who is disabled homeless for some time and my parents had to rush looking for a new place to live. This was when I started to doubt God because why would he allow such a thing to happen. Why would he allow my aunt with a disability to go through that? Why would he allow my grandma to torture my mom throughout her life and she still gets to enjoy the riches that my grandpa left behind when he died? Why does my mom have to suffer so much with the loss of a child, having to deal with my grandma and other family, and then losing the houses she grew up in? Why would he put this amount of stress and pressure on my parents who have done their best to be good people while the openly bad people (grandma and aunt) get absolutely no sort of punishment?

The next of my doubts came around my personal life. I’m in my mid 20s now and as mentioned, I was applying to law school. Well I got in and started law school in fall of 2024. I should’ve been getting ready for my final year of law school this fall but I’m no longer there. When I started law school, my family and I just finished moving to a new place right after the whole family fiasco. I thought that God was really looking out for me now, that this win wasn’t just going to be my win but a win for my parents and I. Well I was FUCKING wrong. My first semester of law school, I was at the bottom half of my class. I studied my ass off and prayed to God to help me do well. I didn’t straight up ask him to just hand me good grades. I always knew that yes I can pray but I also need to put in the work. I put in that work and bam I has straight Cs and was ranked near the bottom of my class. I still put my trust in God that things would get better but they didn’t. When second semester rolled around, I started to have health issues I never experienced like high blood pressure, severe anxiety, hyperventilating. Not sure if these are considered health issues but it’s stuff I never experienced growing up. Not to mention I was a recent college graduate who also played collegiate athletics. I was at my peak from a physical standpoint. In addition to those problems, I had a faculty member and one of my professors tell me to consider a career change or to basically leave law school. Didn’t get an ounce of encouragement or hope that it would get better in law school. This truly broke me as it felt like I didn’t truly belong at the school but I put my trust in God ONCE AGAIN to see if things would get better. By the end of semester two, I improved my grades substantially and thought this was God’s help. I wanted to transfer to a new law school as a result in hopes of a better environment for me to learn and grow. I prayed to God to help me get somewhere new for law school. A fresh start even. However, I was denied from pretty much every law school as a transfer. Even ones ranked lower than the one I was at. I thought it was a sign from God to just go back and push through at my now former school. I went back for the fall semester of my second year and even though I did better, I couldn’t handle it. I couldn’t handle the atmosphere and the fact I went somewhere that I truly didn’t think wanted me there. I did some “soul searching” and “talked” to God about what I should do and well I decided to pivot my career slightly. I won’t go into detail as it’s a completely different and long story but it did align with law a little bit as well as my other hobby in sports. I even made a “promise” to myself, my parents, and God that after this change I would go back to law school somewhere else to finish what I started. So I for this somewhat new path, I applied to a masters program at multiple schools to get a degree and ensure I can finally startup my career and well my life anew. For the first time in a while I truly had hope. I was enjoying my time off school and studying and was patiently waiting for a decision from this program. I was doing my best to be a good son to my parents. I also got to bond with my mom more as an adult which I haven’t been able to do in the last few years since I’ve been in school. I prayed everyday and thanked God for each opportunity and day as well as helping me find a possibly new start. However today, just an hour ago, after months of waiting for a decision for this masters program, I was denied from the school I wanted to go to. In addition, I was denied from my second choice and my third choice while I was accepted and is a great school was way too expensive as it was in NYC and my family and I don’t have the money to pay off such a big loan. That student loan let’s just say with how the world is right now, I’d be paying that off late into my 40s and maybe early 50s especially when you factor in a New York apartment, and the cost of attendance and other expenses as that school. I was really banking on my first two choices as they were substantially cheaper and actually offered the best opportunities for my career as they are Division 1 schools. This broke me. I cried before ranting about this. Days, weeks, months, years of praying to God. Praying that things would work out. Doing my part in this physical world of working hard and seeing if it’s enough to answer my prayers. Nothing.

I did some true reflecting at breakfast before typing this. I looked back at everything in my life. All the good was because one my parents’ job is to of course provide and ensure I have a good upbringing. It’s not because of God. It’s because it is my parents’ job and they did a damn good one that I will appreciate for the rest of my life. My debt is to them not to God. All the bad that’s happened? A consequence of my actions and of course humanity is just wicked. Why would God allow such wickedness if he truly loves us? I’m so sick and fucking tired of God just sitting around. I haven’t been the perfect person by a mile but I do my due diligence and what’s expected of a half decent person. I may not have been the best student, son, friend, teammate, etc. but I for damn sure have empathy and the decency any person is expected to have. I standup for my family, I work hard, I pray for others, I do basically just do my fucking best every damn day and I can tell you, there has been more downs than ups in my 20+ years being on this Earth. I truly after today. A day I was hoping where my life would turn around not just for me but my family, do not believe in God anymore. Getting into this program at this school was the best path for me career wise and financially. It wasn’t just going to be a win for me. It was going to be a win for my parents and I. I was going to share this win with them. I was going to treat my parents to a nice dinner in celebration. I was already dreaming of the day I graduated from this school and program and hugging my parents telling them, things are gonna get better. All I needed was a little grace from God. Just a little fucking grace for the all the hard work I put. Just for one fucking prayer to actually be answered. But no, nothing. Silence from God. Jack shit from God. I don’t have a law school to go to. I don’t have a masters program to do. I have a college degree from an amazing school but today’s society, a bachelors just isn’t enough to get a job that’ll let you make a decent living. Not only that, that wasn’t because of God. It was because of me. I went to school and did the work. Not God. They say Jesus died for our sins and what not but here we are. Suffering. Bad people seem to be rewarded more than those who are good. I’m sick of it. I see all these bad people who go to these good schools. Who gets these good jobs and screw over good people to get there. Is it jealousy? Maybe, I don’t know. But I can tell you for damn sure God isn’t answering prayers. I truly believe that a lot of people just have religious psychosis because I hear all these amazing stories from people who claim to have found or talked to God but then my parents and I have yet to have something truly good and or miraculous happen. People all over the world are fucking suffering. People starving, genocides, homelessness and drugs. You mean to tell me that a small percentage of people “found” God and have spoken to him? BULLSHIT. My problems aren’t as big as a lot of people and I know that, I am blessed that my parents no matter how hard things were for them raising me, they always weather the storm. My dad makes decent money and my mom has always put me before her. Heck you can say I sound spoiled but I never once wanted to make or act that way. I wanted to pay them back with my future and by God’s help, I thought I could. I was blessed with a good upbringing and was hoping my adult life, I could model after my parents and give back to them. But now I truly feel I have no future or direction God doesn’t do shit. He watches people suffer that’s if he’s even real.

Anyways, that is my story. It’s not even the full story but a mere summarization of how I feel. How I truly feel that God doesn’t exist, this was my final straw. It may not seem big but with the way things have gone in my life, I’m lost. I’m at a loss for words. God hasn’t done shit to help me. All the things I’ve done were because of me. My academic and personal accomplishments is because of the work I put it. Not because of some invisible magic being in the sky. It’s just the duty we have as people today in society. I’m done with God, Praying, and doing whatever shit Catholics do. It breaks my heart to say this but I’m just done. I had my doubts about God before but felt like he answered multiple times. Turns out he didn’t and it’s just because I put in the work to ensure something rewarding comes out of it. So this is it. I’m done. I don’t know where to go from here. I’ll leave God to prove me wrong that he’s real because until something truly good or miraculous happens soon, I don’t believe. I have no plan right now. All I can do is try to find work and live life on autopilot. My dreams are dead in the water and God hasn’t done shit to help me reach them. I know I have to put in the work and I’ll do that again when my head is in the right place but I was hoping that God would just lend me a hand for once to make my path a bit smoother. Looks like that isn’t happening so we’ll just have to figure out a new way.

Edit: Gotten a response and few kind messages. Thank you so much for the words of encouragement. For those who have shared an experience much like mine, I’ll do my best to work things out. Your words of encouragement me to do my best still and I hope my words can encourage you as well.

I'm a Catholic survivor.

I/We were KNOWINGLY sexually sacrificed.

By that I mean that, when I was a child, I was raped by a Priest named Fr. LeRoy Valentine, with the knowledge of MANY people at my parish, including then Father and now Cardinal Timothy Dolan.

And worse.

My principal told me that she allowed me/us to be abused, and didn't intervene to stop it -- she saw the problem within DAYS of school starting 1977 -- because "the (Catholic) Church does so much GOOD."

That "good" included the fight against Abortion and the work of Mother Theresa, etc.

I've just come across the idea that Mother Theresa ran/was part of a Cult of Suffering.

I've never heard that term before, but it likely explains how survivors are treated by the church and Catholics.

"Survivors are really kind of LUCKY..."

So there's no need to help them.

Blah blah blah.

I'm curious if others see this parallel and/or if it has been discussed before.

I was raised in the Society of Saint Pius X. It was not a safe place for a girl who had an otherwise normal and modern childhood. Until recently I didn’t even realize the Masses weren’t sanctioned. My dad had some control issues (and probably other things I won’t get into here), and started getting serious about SSPX around the time I should have been confirmed. He pulled me out of CCD and started teaching me on his own. He was an Ivy League-educated attorney but he’d never actually studied religion formally, so his lessons were interesting but sporadic and disjointed. I had to be confirmed at some church far away from us that he deemed “worthy.” From then on I never felt connected to church even though I attended Mass faithfully even into college. All my friends who were Catholic didn’t understand what the Latin Mass was and were having fun in their youth groups, while I didn’t know anyone at my church, and my mom stopped attending with us. The priests focused on Hell and demons and eternal damnation and openly told parishioners which political candidates they should vote for. They ban books and tell women to dress more modestly so men aren’t tempted. I can’t tell you how many times I was shamed by strangers for not wearing my head covering.

One time my dad asked me to attend one of his friend’s churches in rural NC when I was traveling alone. I walked out after 2.5 hours and Communion hadn’t even happened yet. The homily was all about how women shouldn’t work and it was a sin for them to play sports. The pews - as with all SSPX churches - were filled with families who had tons of kids. My dad knew a couple families at his church that had more than 8 kids each. The older ones would take care of their baby siblings during Mass. I’m not criticizing large families; it’s just a very, very common thing to see there, far more than any typical parish. My dad always said that they’d take over the world with lots of offspring while the rest of the world died out.

After my dad passed, I realized how much emotional abuse I’d endured and that I’d allowed him to control how I interacted with my faith, and I stopped being a practicing Catholic. I don’t necessarily blame the larger church but I just don’t feel connected to it. At one point I attended Mass at a regular Roman Catholic Church, and as I had never taken Communion by hand, the priest stopped and called me out in front of everyone in line, asking, “Are you a Catholic?” I must have done something wrong - I should have taken it on the tongue like I was used to, but it is so uncommon, it felt weird to be the only one. I realized then that he was right, I wasn’t actually Catholic, although until then it had been a major part of my self-identity.

I still believe in God and wish it had been different, but my foundation has totally crumbled beneath me.

I pray that the Church excommunicates these people and finally puts an end to this. I truly believe it’s a cult. It’s dangerous and backwards. I grieve for other children who will feel this trauma and struggle to find their way in their faith.

One of the most common “proofs” given by Catholics is the existence of miraculous material items like the shroud of turin and the tilma of Guadalupe.

The claims DO seem intriguing. Science cannot explain either of them, but the problem is that science hasn’t been given a full opportunity.

In both cases, the catholic church has strictly controlled who is allowed to research these items and what gets published. Because of this, we haven’t been able to explore them as much as is necessary.

It just feels so misleading for them to constantly utilize the proof that “secular scientists” give that these items are miraculous. And based on the evidence we have, there isn’t much to refute it. But I think that is because the research on it is limited and differing opinions are stifled.

I just want to know the truth. Regardless of what it points to.

There is a particular kind of fear that lives in the body long after the mind has tried to reason it away. It is not the abstract fear of something that might happen. It is the residue of something that already did. For those of us who sat in the small wooden desks of Catholic school classrooms in the latter half of the twentieth century, that fear often has a very specific shape. It wears a black or white habit. It holds a ruler. And it answers to Sister.

I am collecting stories. If you attended Catholic school in any decade and carry something you have never been asked to put into words, I want to hear from you. Your name does not have to appear anywhere. Your experience does not have to fit a particular shape. What happened is enough.

This project is growing into something larger: a podcast episode, an oral history, and possibly a book. Every account matters. Every account is evidence that this was not isolated, not a few bad actors, not ancient history.

Reach out at fearandwinepod@gmail.com or find us at fearandwine.com. You will be heard. You can also comment here, but I know these stories can be very private for many.

How do you deal with apologists and others who basically say "going to hell is your fault because you choose it, (so that makes it ok?)"

It reminds me of a little kid who grabs your arm and hits you with it, shouting "stop hitting yourself!" lol

Similarly, the "hell is just the absence of God, so the absence of anything good" line.

I feel like the Catholic Church used to teach that hell was absolutely endless physical and spiritual torture and punishment. I think they low-key still DO teach this, but internet Catholics pretend that they don't. They act like "hell" is just a choice and not really God's responsibility or fault or doing, like it's just this place that people who don't obey and believe sufficiently end up, but like God doesn't actually SEND them there so he isn't the bad guy here. Anyone else run into this? What are your most effective rejoinders?

Society of Pius X may go too far for Leo.

https://www.reuters.com/world/vatican-warns-rebel-catholic-group-it-risks-excommunication-2026-05-13/

Confusion to the enemy!

This always gets to me a bit. Literally anything can be hand waived away by "that person didn't follow the teachings correctly" including systemic abuse and whatnot. "The actual Catholic teachings are good." "The Church is a hospital for sinners, etc. "