r/exjew

Does anyone else just feel that yes, religious Judaism could work on paper but in practice eh, not so well?
I used to be bothered by Jewish philosophy,is there a god or is it all random? Is Judaism the right answer? Yada yada. It caused me loads of existential crises, a lot of emotional pain, and some depression. And then I realized most people don’t question this, they don’t care, and really, it doesn’t pay to question it.
Instead, it’s better to just get involved in something you find super interesting-maths, engineering, whatever and focus on that, have fun, and enjoy yourself in all the different ways.
Ultimately, the biggest difference and where it stems from for most people who work a proper job and are busy all day with secular things is that they were just born in different families. People who go for the whole existential or philosophical Judaism, or even Chassidus and Breslov, go so into it that they make it a lifelong project. It’s just a simple question of where you put your mental priorities. For example, when learning Rabbi Nachman’s Likkutei Moharan, it was great, but then I just felt like shit about university and work. I almost failed a few classes because I thought it was all meaningless.
Also, especially in Israel, there is a huge difference between religious and secular people. Most of the religious people I know are different; they aren’t like normal, fun people. They’re just a bit strange , or they take things way too seriously.
My problem isn’t philosophically with Judaism, it’s that practically, it doesn’t work out. If I think in "Jewish ways," I just become morbid and way too serious. No one likes it not my religious friends or my secular friends both tell me to chill. I just see that I can’t be religious and "normal" at the same time.

The memories.

I remember from 2004-2016 when I used to hold by seven fast days a year. Waking up at 4:15 a.m to stuff my face before the sun rose, on those five minor days.

I remember in 2016, after studying Kabbalah and eastern belief systems, when I knocked out the minor ones so it was down to two. Why torture myself for nothing? I told myself I would always keep Tish B'av and Yom Kippur.

I remember in 2018 when I stopped fasting on Tish B'av because I was morning for nothing. The whole concept of pretending to be sad and mourning for those 25 hours was ridiculous and just seemed that everyone was pretending. I ask michila from everybody I greeted with a smile on those mornings. The chutzpah.

I remember in 2020, after realizing through further study, reading , research and meditation that I was no longer a theist. I am grateful to the quarantine for enabling me to not have to attend minyan for 4 months. What a wonderful spring cleaning that was.

I remember, filled with fear and trepidation, when I I stopped fasting in 2021 on Yom Kippur.

I now know and will remember that there is no deity judging me, and that there's no need to have any fear of not fasting. I am cut off from nothing, because that's what belief in all theistic religions consists of.

Freedom is great.

Ok so I have a bone to pick with Chabad. There’s a lot of things I don’t understand about them and I’m trying to understand if I’m just ignorant or what? s

1-Does every Chabadnick believe the Rebbe was the Messiah? Ive heard some do some dont? Whats the truth?
2-Why are there mental gymnastics around asking them if they think the Rebbe was the Messiah
3-Why do they say “we love every Jew” but then harass the F out of you if you don’t come to their next event after coming once
4-Why are they so popular? I’m seeing more and more young ppl joining…
5-If the Rebbes own brother went OTD, then why so much hate towards secular ppl?
6-why do they always label secular ppl as “they just aren’t taught right” … like do ppl not have critical thinking??

I didn’t grow up orthodox so I have a different experience than most people here. I grew up mostly secular/reform but stumbled upon Chabad in young adulthood. So I have interacted with a lot of more religious Jews. It sucks bc I just never had the same privileges as most of the Jews I’ve met. And not just the orthodox ones, but the reform/conservative ones that went to day school. I mean there’s just so many layers of class and access to Jewish culture and spaces I did not have. And a lot of these people will act holier than thou like they’re a more educated Jew and oh so generous to bestow upon you their Jewish knowledge. Like constantly trying to one up you in how much they know about Judaism or Jewish stuff lol. Like it’s so lame. To the point where I’m literally being lectured about the Passover story. Like I know I didn’t go to day school or fancy Jewish summer camp, but I have seen the prince of Egypt… literally said that to this girl once just to get her to shut up lol.

Idk at the same time I care about continuity, especially because I’m the only one in my family left that does, and my children will be the only halachally Jews left of my family. But it just kind of feels like this exhausting rat race of trying to keep up with things I just will never be able to afford. It’s super fucking depressing that Jewish continuity basically entirely relies on how much money you have. It basically creates this dynamic where the ones maintaining tradition, as the more wealthier Jews. Okay so now this is a culture where the richest ones are the most pious? Is that really what it means to be a good Jew? Or a good person? Come on.

To make it worse you often have religious people that will tell you to spend your entire life’s savings and financially put yourself and your family at risk and move your entire life to a more jewish and very expensive area just to sacrifice to try to keep up. They’ll tell you to send your kids to orthodox school because it’s more affordable when that would socially and culturally make zero sense for my family. Like it would be a really weird fit and not be a good idea. But they don’t think or understand bc they have such a limited and sheltered life experience. Then the other day schools are just an insane amount of money.

I just get really disillusioned by the whole thing and i run out of energy because what’s the point of trying and trying just to set up my kids with either the same rat race where they will always have shitty yichus and be low class, or to just have them inevitably give it up too bc I was not able to provide the kind of Jewish education and Jewish social circles that is demanded to maintain such continuity? But I see so many others around me doing it in the same desperation, they’re just better off than me and can financially handle it.

Without a doubt, this sub has been infiltrated. We must remember that the freedoms we enjoy today were won at the end of a musket. To the people who unapologetically deride the religious establishment, I salute you! Half of you guys should really be singing god save the king!

Hello all! Welcome to r/leftistexjews, a new community space on reddit specifically for ex-religious Jews who are on the political left.

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Coming from a frum background, did you find it hard to put yourself out there in general?

Did you jump straight into the deep end and start dating non-jews right away?

I'm also curious if you've struggled to connect in the dating world because of your complex history, or if you've battled with confidence despite no longer being observant.

Personally, it's been a struggle for me for all of these reasons. I'm wondering if this is a common experience for those of us who are ex-frum?

I'd love to hear your experiences, if you're open to sharing.

What do you think the frum world's reaction will be when in the Jewish year 6000 (the agreed upon latest date that Moshiach can come by) Moshiach never shows up?

Will there be mass panic and abandonment amongst the orthodox? Will cognitive dissonance (AKA Emunah) hold strong and the Rabbanim find a new date to look forward to in some far-out Zohar/medrash? Or perhaps something else?

It's certainly interesting to think about and I'd love to hear your thoughts

Yes, I wish this was a joke. In 2017 I was still in chabad community here in Sydney Australia. We have always learned so much about how amazing crown Heights is, and how incredible the rebbe and 770 is etc. To me, a frum chabad girl who has never been to America before, going to seminary there was a dream come true. Most of my friends went to Israel seminary, but since all their families were high up in the community (lots of yichus) and they had good last names, they all got into the sems they wanted to, and I got rejected.

I was so upset, because genuinely I was so chassidish and sincere, and it bothered my how unfair that system was - but that's another story.

Anyway, my second option was to go to crown Heights, but since my family is low income, it was really hard to afford it. If I would have gone to Israel, there would have been Masa funds and scholarships etc, but Crown Heights didn't offer that.

I started a GoFundMe, saying how I really want to go to seminary etc, and my friends sent it around. It got a lot of funds really fast, which was so exciting. We ended up raising $15,000 (and it makes me sick until this day that they have that money.)

In late high school I had depression, and saw a psychologist. It was really hard at times, but I got so much better, enough that my treating team was happy to send me overseas for a year. Thankfully, there wasn't much stigma about mental health here in Sydney, and I was able to get the help I needed at the time. However, very quickly I learned that crown Heights did not feel the same way.

After receiving my student visa I booked my tickets to go to seminary in bais rivka crown Heights. I was having my last session with my psychologist at the time, and we thought it might be a good idea to let the admin know that mental health is something I struggled with in the past, I was completely okay then, but just so that they had a heads up if I needed anything.

I genuinely was so fine with it because it seemed like a normal and responsible thing to do.

THE NEXT FUCKING DAY we get an email saying that they will be cancelling my student visa, as they "cannot deal with depressed people" and that "they can't cater for depressed people".

This was before speaking to me, before meeting with me, before talking to my team, before talking to my parents. No communication, no questions, just the information that they cannot have someone who had depression in their seminary. (meanwhile so many people had depression, they just had no clue what it was or were probs told that they should just write to the rebbe lol)

I was outraged, and thankfully so was my community. I had some people email them and vouch for me as well.

Morah gorowitz (the principal there) was so disgusting about it.

Anyway, I stupidly had my heart set on going still and seeing 770 and the ohel, so I fought so hard to still go. Eventually, I eneded up going 3 months late, with the condition that I had a carer. (after meeting this carer once, the carer was like bro your fine we don't need to do this)

This was my introduction to crown Heights. It was so disheartening to see that this was the very place that we learned about so far away in Australia, but this is how closed minded they were and how they treated people.

In my eyes, I was never rebellious, really genuine about going to learn and everything. I thought I was "good enough" to go on shlichus. The second day that I got there, they stared with how untznius I was. I was so ashamed, because for Sydney, I was the most tznius person. It pretty much went down hill from there, but it hurts me so much now knowing that I wasted all that money that could have been used for something good.

I witnessed first hand the hyorocrasy, and the closed mindedness and the cult like behavior. It could be because I come from such an open minded worldly city here in Australia, but wow it was such a bubble there.

So toxic, and I'm so glad I'm out, but it's been so many years and I'm still so angry at them.

Especially for women. Can we discuss?

You know the deal by now. Feel free to discuss your Shabbat plans or whatever else.

Many of us are experiencing a heat wave, with dangerously hot and miserable temperatures outside. Now imagine fasting in this heat, then fasting again three weeks from now.

My neighbors fasted, but I didn't. In fact, I attended a special lunch sponsored by my employer *and* tried a new sandwich (that included treif vegetables) for dinner.

What a mechayeh it is to live in a healthy and sane way!

On this beautiful fast day I had the pleasure of speaking to a Rabbi who gave me his best argument for the divine origin of Judaism

His first premise was that the Jewish people have survived so long and have preserved the Torah and kept it's traditions so perfectly and nobody questioned it's validity for so long that it must be from God

I heartily disagreed and pointed out that the Torah only started getting perfectly preserved ~2000 years ago at the earliest and before that we have no evidence that it was actually the same bible. I also said that the way the Bible was written points to it being compiled and edited over centuries rather than 1 complete book. To which he said "It's not true, God giving it makes more sense"

I then gave him a bunch of reasons why the Torah's claims of history (specifically Noah's Ark) don't align with what we actually observe such as no genetic bottleneck in humans that points to a crash 4000 years ago, no genetic bottleneck in an overwhelming amount of animals that would have only had 2 survivors if the story was true, no global sediment layer that would suggest a massive flood happened across the planet, the existence of trace fossils and amber fossils that would not have survived if a massive boiling tsunami engulfed the planet, no noticable change in glacier patterns during that time etc

To which he said "Scientists get stuff wrong all the time"

Um, ok? But we have evidence that you can fact check you don't have to take my word for it Rebbey.

Anyways we agreed to disagree lol

I’m really scared I might be allergic cuz I’ve never eaten it before. My worst nightmare is to try shellfish and get anaphylaxis and then have to tell my parents. Any tips?

I grew up in a nominally modern orthodox household. My parents had very different levels of observance. They fought (sometimes viciously) about how religious to raise me and my brother. My Mom was the more observant one, but for her, it was all guilt based (she’s a child of holocaust survivors, and her cousins are all ultra orthodox- which she sees as a superior lifestyle, but one which she can’t attain). My Dad was raised in a secular home, but became religious in HS, though he was always an avowed atheist and would frequently ridicule the orthodox community we lived in as superstitious and intolerant.

I went to yeshiva thru 12th grade, and had a mostly negative experience.

Elementary school was a compromise between the black hat Yeshiva my Mom wanted to send me, and the modern, co-ed one my Dad wanted me to go to. It was a poorly run school that did little to educate me.

HS was spent at a well known uber-Zionist school but I had a terrible experience there mostly because it was my first co-ed experience (and I had a lot of acne).

Fast forward 25 years.. I’m married with 3 young kids. My wife converted to Judaism (because when we started dating I told her I couldn’t marry a non Jew). We’re not observant, we’re not involved in any jewish communities, mainly because we’re disgusted by the Israel worship at the synagogues we used to belong to. And my wife is now reconnecting to her Catholic roots. The other day she told me she converted partly as an FU to her parents, and now that she’s older she’s reevaluating.

Although I ditched religious practice a long time ago, I used to have a generally favorable view of Judaism as a religion and Jews as a people. Since Oct 7th I no longer do. Forgive the hyperbole (I’m prone to it), but to me Judaism has become a suicidal/genocidal cult.

When we got married we agreed to raise our kids Jewish, but my heart just isn’t in it anymore. Occasionally we do Shabbat dinner (at my wife’s insistence) but the thought of my kids singing engaging in Jewish cultural or religious practices (singing Kabbalah Shabbat, saying a bracha, learning tanach or Talmud) is distasteful to me.

Anyone else have similar feelings?

I remembered this today and watched the video again for the first time in yearsss. Recalling the misogynistic controversy around it too, and just the idea of dor yeshorim and the content of these lyrics is such a trip lmao

(Context: around a decade ago American high school girls made this rap about dor yeshorim that unintentionally went viral within the frum community and there was a lot of misogynistic backlash to it, there were boys that made responses/their own versions that didn’t get the same criticism at all)

There isn’t a single person where I am who understands this bizarre situation. But, I’m guessing there’s a better than average chance someone in this group does.

It’s been over 10 years since I’ve seen, or spoken to her. I’m completely cut off after leaving. She developed dementia. If I had had had the presence of mind to visit while she was still with it, she would have welcomed me and been genuinely thrilled I was there. Maybe I’m choosing to believe that. But, I’m over 90% certain that is how she would have reacted.

She believed, and lived: tracht gut, v’zayn gut.

She believed that “the aibishter” is the one whose job it was to judge, not human beings. You do what you’re supposed to do, and the rest is not your problem.

She gave with her whole heart and with sensitivity, “כַּפָּהּ פָּרְשָֹה לֶעָנִי, וְיָדֶיהָ שִׁלְּחָה לָאֶבְיוֹן.”

She opened her home to people no one else would and her presence had a calming effect on even the most agitated orech who had been kicked out of other open homes.

This is going to be an unusual post, but I would appreciate it if you took the time to read it, because I am trying to better understand myself, the world, and the perception of Jewish people throughout history.

To explain the title: I am a Pakistani living abroad who grew up in a religious family. I have not been a practicing Muslim for at least five years. Throughout my life, however, I have felt sympathy for the treatment of Jewish people throughout history because I have often felt that I, too, have been treated negatively simply for being different.

I understand that this is not something unique to the Jewish experience and that "being treated negatively" is not equivalent to the much harsher treatments throughout history that Jews have faced and dont want to make a direct equivalence. However, the perception that quite a lot of society today holds towards Jews when they are simply going about living there life is something that i can relate to .

After reading about the Holocaust, the expulsions of Jewish communities from different countries, and the attitudes of various societies and rulers toward Jews, the interest in the intellectual and scholarly traditions associated with Jewish communities and the emphasis on study, inquiry, and dedication to ideas and then compared these things with my own experiences, I found myself relating strongly to them.

I have often committed myself deeply to science, history, and philosophy, sometimes almost to the point of neglecting ordinary social life. In return, I have sometimes felt isolated or mistreated for that choice : for not participating heavily in social dynamics, for not playing what feels like the "game" of status and power, and for placing a high value on ideas and intellectual development ( I dont mean this in a condescending way toward people who choose different ways of living ) .

Because of this, I have felt a stronger sense of connection with aspects of Jewish culture and history than with many of the communities I have previously been a part of. That is why I am making this post: I want to understand whether this sense of connection makes sense and whether I am understanding these things correctly.

Many of the communities I have belonged to in the past, whether religious or non-religious, have often seemed to revolve around group identity and social hierarchies. The religious environments I experienced often felt tribal to me and frequently appeared centered around maintaining a shared identity, dividing people into ingroups and outgroups, and spending much of one's life either pursuing ordinary pleasures or discussing why those outside the group were misguided or worse off in some way. The non-religious spaces I later found myself in often felt different mainly in the principles they justified themselves with rather than in their underlying dynamics. Instead of appealing to religion, they tended to appeal to naturalistic ideas, personal experiences, or independently derived beliefs and values. Yet despite these differences in justification, I often felt that the same patterns remained underneath: competition for status, social positioning, and what felt like a continuing process of power consolidation. I realize that this may simply be a recurring feature of human social behavior rather than something unique to any particular community.

I recognize that these tendencies are likely part of human nature and would exist in Jewish communities as well. I do not assume any community is exempt from them. Rather, I wonder whether there are communities that place greater emphasis on open discussion, individual merit, and a more nuanced understanding of why people behave as they do, rather than simply treating those who are different as outsiders.