r/exmormon

We live in Salt Lake, my dad lives in Provo. We were going to go visit him this morning so I texted him to see how he’s feeling. He said he was tired because the neighbors from both sides of his house showed up bright and early to cook him pancakes. They didn’t bring him breakfast, they cooked him pancakes. In his kitchen. With their whole family, including small children. Basically chaos too early in the morning and I know he didn’t get coffee! He sent me photos. They were all dressed for church. I mean, except him, he hasn’t been to church in over 30 years.

I felt like I had made my peace with the church members and living in the Salt Lake area actually hasn’t been too bad. The missionaries have visited me twice and they’ve left knowing there was no hope for me, LOL, but this morning bothered me terribly. While I was checking on my dad to see if he was well enough to have us drive home and visit he had MORE people stop by on the way to church! I wanted to think that the neighbors really cared for him that much but where have they been all week? Why today?

Oh yeah, it’s fast Sunday and I’m sure every one of those people are going to stand up, tell of their “good deed” today and I’m not okay with it! Again, where were they all week when he was trimming his trees, alone, mowing his yard and dealing with leaves, alone, he was trying to sleep on a Sunday morning FFS!

Thanks for entertaining my rant. Everything should be business as usual by tomorrow.

TBMs found me in the hospital.

I'm flat on my back in a hospital bed after spinal surgery and in come the TBMs. I can't even remember the last time I went to the church. My whole family is in, and my ancestors were founders of the church. I am genuinely embarrassed to think that the nurses and staff of this Hospital believe I'm a Mormon. I spent most of the day telling them I don't believe in that cult.

I was in too much pain to throw them out. I scarfed down my little piece of bread and my sip of water, smiled, and sent them on their way. Of course no one bothered to send me flowers or visit me in the hospital. People who know I'm here couldn't care less about doing something thoughtful to really cheer me up. I'm in a lot of pain, but the TBMs had to track me down. I would have been more understanding if they had brought me chocolate!

Chapters 17 and 18 of Alma in the Book of Mormon describe Ammon's intention to convert the Lamanites to the knowledge of God, since they were in a sorry state:

Alma 17:15

"Thus they were a very indolent people, many of whom did worship idols, and the curse of God had fallen upon them because of the traditions of their fathers;"

So Ammon goes to the Lamanites, and they capture him. Their leader, King Lamoni, ask him what he is doing there to which he responds:

Alma 17: 23-24

"And Ammon said unto him: Yea, I desire to dwell among this people for a time; yea, and perhaps until the day I die. And it came to pass that king Lamoni was much pleased with Ammon, and caused that his bands should be loosed; and he would that Ammon should take one of his daughters to wife."

He denies the offer to marry the daughter, and is instead put to work tending the king’s “flocks”. Some plunderers come and scatter the flocks. After this happens a couple times, Ammon faces the raiders with a sling and sword:

Alma 17:36-37

“But Ammon stood forth and began to cast stones at them with his sling; yea, with mighty power he did sling stones amongst them; and thus he slew a certain number of them insomuch that they began to be astonished at his power; nevertheless they were angry because of the slain of their brethren, and they were determined that he should fall; therefore, seeing that they could not hit him with their stones, they came forth with clubs to slay him.

But behold, every man that lifted his club to smite Ammon, he smote off their arms with his sword; for he did withstand their blows by smiting their arms with the edge of his sword, insomuch that they began to be astonished, and began to flee before him; yea, and they were not few in number; and he caused them to flee by the strength of his arm.”

 So he kills 6 men with a sling, and cuts off the arms of "quite a few" other guys. When King Lamoni is informed of all this and sees the arms that were collected after the fight, he is amazed. to make a long story short, Ammon goes to take care of the king's horses + chariots. Later the king is converted and the two of them take off in the horses and chariots to go preach the gospel to other parts of the kingdom.

When I read this story as a 16 year old boy, I honestly thought it was pretty cool! Ammon is basically a superhero who cuts off anyone's arm that stands in his way. And he does it in the name of God! Fuck yeah!

When I read this story as a grown man, from the very start my BS detector goes off immediately:

• The whole story sounds basically like an anime. Ammon is practically unstoppable in a fight, reads the King's mind, is offered the daughter's hand in marriage immediately, is a fearless and courageous leader, and amazes the King with his preaching so much that he goes into a coma for 2 days straight.
• If I were a king and a member of an enemy tribe trespasses into my land requesting to serve me, would I really offer my daughter to him... immediately?
• Did God give Ammon the power to kill all those men? Is this something God would do? God is all powerful, so God could have given Ammon the power to convert them, or maybe scare them off instead of killing them. Why did they have to die? Is this really how God works?
• Did swords even exist during that time period? No they did not. Swords were not introduced into Americas until Spanish conquistadors came along. Indigenous Americans did have obsidian studded clubs, but they would not have been able to cut off arms.
• The Book of Mormon strongly implies the "flocks" were either sheep or goats, neither of which existed in ancient America either.
• Horses definitely did not exist in ancient America, and chariots FOR CERTAIN did not exist. Horses may have existed in ancient America LONG before the time period described in the Book of Mormon, but this story implies that there were so many they were domesticated and used in chariots. Complete nonsense.

A couple of years ago we were discussing this story in Sunday School with other grown and mature adults. At this point I was a faithful, believing member of the church, but something within me woke up and realized... This is complete bullshit. All of it. There is no universe in which this story actually happened. No way.

From here I went on to research other anachronisms in the Book of Mormon. Swords, horses, silk, flour, chariots, compasses, and on and on and on. Joseph Smith lied about the Book of Mormon, what else did he lie about? From there I researched his background from reputable sources outside the church and was unpleasantly surprised.

I couldn't stop there. I continued on to deconstruct Christianity as a whole, and then on to theism as a whole. At this point in my life, my faith in God is completely broken, and I have the ridiculous story of Ammon to thank for it.

I’m having a lot of feelings about this so I wrote it all out, deleted, and rewrote it. Unfortunately some irrelevant details still remain. Apologies.

This woman was an active anti-Mormon. She preached against the church teachings and leadership to anyone who would listen. My mom was her only Mormon friend.

When it looked like this friends health was taking a turn for the worse (which it did a couple of times over her last 10 years of life), she made my mom PROMISE not to do her baptism in the temple after she passed. And because of the relatively steady but slow decline of her health this friend made my mom promise this multiple times, in front of witnesses (including myself), in front of her husband. She put it in her will (although not specifically pointing to my mother, just a general ‘do not baptized me into your damn church after I’m dead’). She made jokes about haunting anyone who would dare do this to her.

She passed away 2 years ago. So surprise surprise about 10 months after she passed her husband (former Mormon) had a dream where she told him she changed her mind, please have (my mom) do her temple work for her. She also told him to go back to church. After her widower contacted my mom wouldn’t you know it but my mom ALSO had a dream about her! A dream where said friend laughed and said she was wrong about everything, and the missionaries were teaching her so much, and she was so glad that death had finally pulled the anti-Mormon blindfold from her eyes!

On the soonest date that was allowed by the church my mom did her friends baptism, followed by the rest of the work on a later date. The friends widower is now back at church and newly engaged to be married.

I am so mad about this. It was in her WILL!!!

And I think this is why I won’t withdraw my membership until after my parents have passed. I will not go through all the work of leaving only to have my mother disregard my feelings entirely and do the work anyway. Thank you for listening.

So I was at church today and I guess it was fast Sunday. For those NeverMos on here that is the day where you skip a meal or two once a month and at church you go up to the mic and share your stories and testimonies about how the church is true and joseph smith is a prophet blah blah blah. And last weekend was General Conference and so many were sharing stuff about what they learned at conference. And what bothered me was My mother talked about family members leaving the church including my brother. And somehow that started a theme for testimonies talking about their children or family members who have left the church. Another lady comes up and talks about the same thing. Get this. A guy gets up to share his testimony and directly says this to my mom:
"Don't worry. Your son will come back. They always do"

I found this comment under a Polish video about Mormons. Is any of it true?

"Regarding the fact that many people go from house to house and convert others, it’s more complicated than that. The people who go door to door are only missionaries, meaning young men and women between the ages of 18 and 25 who have gone on a mission. They can be sent to another state or even another continent. A mission lasts 1.5–2 years, and you have to pay for it yourself, learn the language, etc. Of course, the location of the mission is supposedly determined by “God,” and you have no say in it.

In practice, if your surname is Pawłowski, you’ll be sent to Poland, and if you’re Black, you’ll be sent to Africa.

Moreover, being a missionary is a huge undertaking. You can contact your family only once a week, during designated hours, and you can send your friends one email per week. You can go grocery shopping once a week. You’re not allowed to have your own phone or passport. Internet access is blocked. You’re not allowed to read books or listen to music. You have to get up every day at 6:30 a.m.

When you pee, you have to hit your knees with your other hand so that your companion can hear that you’re not masturbating. Time spent in the bathroom is generally restricted.

There is a rule called the “rule of sight and sound,” meaning that for the entire two years, you must ALWAYS remain within your missionary companion’s sight or hearing range, 24/7.

Generally speaking, it’s a process that psychologically wears young people down to the limit..."

Today I realized that the Mormon Church is a very bad place for people who are mourning, especially who those who don't believe anymore.

My beloved non-member grandparent was dying and the first thing my institute teacher, who I barely know, told me that I could soon get baptized for him and I was devestated. I don't believe anymore in that nonsense and find it very disrespectfull for my non-member family. And most importantly I find hurtfull it that my loss is turned into weird do to list.

This Sunday in class we were forced to talk to our neighbour about a moment we didn't prioritize God in our week and I told my neighbour about the death, and how I found it hard to think about God. My neighbour forced me to talk about it in front the whole class, what I hated.

Other members didn't care much about my mourning either, which was dissappointing since I haven been to that ward for years and I thought that I had a connection with them.

I "served" in Taiwan. No, forget that, I didn't "serve" anybody. I was exploited. But I digress.

I used to only think of how my mission hurt me. I'm only just realizing how it hurt others.

One of my converts killed himself by drinking a bottle of pesticide, believing he would see his dead mother in the next life.

I converted a lesbian and taught her she was a sinner. She hoped God would make her straight.

Another woman was cut off from her family because I baptized her. They tried to warn her that she was joining a cult, but she wouldn't listen because of me.

I truncated centuries-long traditions of incense burning, tea drinking, and ancestral reverence by promoting the word of wisdom and the 10 commandments.

The list goes on and on.

Beautiful lives, invaluable people, and priceless cultural expressions that had previously survived all kinds of oppression, against any configuration of odds... upended by a white kid with a Mormon's naivety and an American's ego.

I wouldn't say I regret my mission, per se. I didn't choose to be born Mormon, I didn't choose to be brainwashed. I had an incredible adventure. And frankly, my mission was the beginning of the end for my testimony, so in a weird way I'm kind of grateful for it.

But on the other hand... damn, there is also some really poingnant grief not just over what I lost, but what I took from others. I don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill, I know that any destruction I did was insigificant at scale. But on an individual or personal level, I can't help but think there's a certain amount of gravity to what I did. And that hurts.

For those of you in mixed faith marriages or who have any insight for me:

My husband has told me that he will talk about any church issue with me every day and pretty much start his long-coming deconstruction IF we start go to church with him again every week (myself and our young kiddo). None of us have been in about 1.5 years bc I stopped going and he said he’d rather be with us on Sunday mornings (he’s been great about putting us first and has been very patient), but it’s been wearing on him to be away and he misses it.

My soul is screaming at me to stay away from the MFMC and I feel I can’t stomach suddenly going again every week. If you’re in a mixed faith marriage, do you ever go to support your spouse? Do I just need to set aside some pride here?

EXTRA VENT: a small part of me feels like it’s his responsibility to educate himself on the issues that made me leave. We desperately need that understanding between us. Why is that essential piece of us moving forward conditional on me sitting through church again? Shouldn’t it be a given that he does the research?

Any and all thoughts appreciated. Happy Sunday, heathens.

What’s the worst things you’ve heard said during a General Conference?

I joined a few years ago and kinda seeing some.. odd things being said and have been since I joined. What’s the worse you’ve got?

Add on: Wow. Insane amount of sexual abuse stuff. I got raped by the man who showed me the church and was asked by our bishop if I needed to repent for it. Then told me not to attend church every other week as the man who assaulted me “needed to heal” from the situation. So.

My shelf broke a few months ago and I keep going to church with my family, wearing garments, paying tithing, and avoiding coffee and tea. I have done this in an attempt to regain some nuanced belief but it hasn’t worked and I don’t feel much better. I’m contemplating taking off the garment, trying coffee, and cutting tithing down to 5% so that my husband can be a full tithe payer on “his half” of the money (even though we have a joint bank account). I don’t know if I will do it though. I love my husband and don’t want to make him sad. I plan to continue to go to church with him.
-What do YOU do?
-What do YOU recommend?
-How should I have that conversation?
Thanks in advance!

Either one will do. Thank you.

My TBM Mom just informed me she is feeling AMAZING now that she has stopped taking her prescription medication for Parkinson's and started taking supplements from a Utah MLM called Sisel. She has been consulting with some Sisel "doctor", who "went to BYU" and realized that traditional medicine was bad.

I've been researching Sisel and noticed that the founders led a previous supplements MLM into a collapse and started Sisel out of the ashes. These guys were convicted of fraud and warned to stop making false medical claims by the Biden administration.

Now these scoundrels are hurting old people like my 78 year old Mom with their lies. People who go off of Parkinson's meds can feel a "high" for two or three months, but then find their condition actually gets worse!

What should I do? Telling my mother this is a fraud will likely just convince her to hang up on me. She doesn't want to hear an unkind word from me about how her church, or people in her faith community. She has a long history of getting sucked into one MLM after another. Normally I just shut my mouth with these get rich schemes. But this one is messing with her health!