r/exmormon

Also, anyone who used to go to any of the upstate NY wards in here?

Anyone else seeing the double standard of the selective outrage that is being expressed by Utah residents (who are primarily church members), against *outside interests* using *bully tactics* to overrule overwhelming local opposition and build *oversized buildings* on their home turf, but are more than happy to support those same tactics when it comes to temple building (I.e. Fairview Texas temple)? 🙄🤬

Anyone else ever think about the college experiences they’ll never really get to have?

Lately I’ve been realizing how much of my college years were spent trying to be the perfect Mormon instead of actually figuring out who I was. I followed all the rules because I thought that was what I was supposed to do, but now forever stuck in this weird feeling that I missed out on a huge part of being young.

I wish I would’ve dated people I actually connected with instead of constantly filtering everything through “eternal marriage potential.” I wish I would’ve made friends outside the Mormon bubble.

Sometimes I even regret how careful I was all the time. I spent so much energy trying not to disappoint people that I never really asked myself what I wanted.

Now I feel older, more uncertain, and honestly kind of sad that I can’t get those years back. I know everyone says “college is what you make of it,” but sometimes feels like an experience designed around avoiding mistakes instead of discovering yourself.

Curious if anyone else feels this way or if I’m just romanticizing the life I didn’t live.

Last night, I had what I would consider my first real PTSD moment related to the MFMC. I was with my best friend and her family, celebrating her mom's birthday. The mom's boyfriend is a singer and had some gospel-type music playing in the background. My friend made a charcuterie cake - basically bread covered in toothpicks of meat and cheese.

I grabbed a toothpick and came away with a little chunk of bread and popped it in my mouth. Something about the size, shape, and texture of the bread made me think of sacrament bread (almost certainly bolstered by hearing organ music at the same time), and suddenly I was 16 years old again, sitting on the stand, terrified of messing up the blessing, feeling the eyes of every person in the chapel on me, knowing I wasn't worthy and that everything was an act and terrified that the bishop would know and would kick me off the stand.

I stood up and walked out, went outside, and just sat there. I was actually struggling to remind myself that I wasn't still there, that I was safe, I was free. I could smell the chapel mustiness and feel the air conditioner right above where the priests sat. My heart was absolutely pounding, and I was sweating. I felt like I was losing my shit. It took me a bit to finally come back and let those sensations wash away.

I've had moments where I really felt the trauma this cult inflicted on me, but never what felt like a full blown PTSD attack. I also don't think I've had any particularly strong reactions to being reminded about the sacrament. Mind you, I'm 38 - I haven't been in a sacrament meeting in about 15 years now. So it feels wild to suddenly have this pop up.

Anyone else experience anything similar and are willing to share? I'm doing okay now, but I wouldn't mind some validation that I'm not just crazy and that other people have experienced this.

My daughter is getting married on Saturday. Up until a year ago, I was 100% Mormon. Primary president, YW president, never missed church. I went down the rabbit hole last year and now wonder how I ever believed any of it. My daughter is a BYU student and is only 19. I told my kids a few months ago that I no longer believe and I haven’t been to church since February (when my other daughter got home from her mission😳).

I’m just trying to prepare myself for what it’s going to be like to watch my parents and my siblings and my ex-husband who cheated on me and hasn’t been very present for my kids until recently) all get to go in the temple with her while I’m sitting outside. I’m the only one in my whole family to leave and this is the first time I will have been unable to go in the temple or even be around any of them since I stopped believing. I’m just angry. I was a SAHM for most of my daughter’s life and have been there for her at every game, recital, event, etc. And now she’s getting married and I can’t be there. How did I never see how absolutely evil that is to exclude people that way?!? And I’m the one who taught her to get married in the temple so I have no one to blame except myself! The not so charitable side of me is just hoping that seeing me not in there will add a crack to any shelves that might exist in my family. And I’m trying to figure out what to tell all the young kids who will inevitably be asking me why I’m not going in with my own daughter. How do you even respond to that?

Thanks for letting me vent. I just hate this church that has created this whole awful, painful, horrific, exclusionary situation.

Ever since I turned 18, the pressure of serving a mission has taken a toll on my mind. I really wanted to serve before because I was truly believing. I don’t know whether I am fortunate or not, because my parents and grandparents are not supportive of the idea of me going on a mission. They are not TBMs.

I was raised in a home where the teachings of the church were rarely mentioned. However, I was raised to believe in God—that God is everywhere. I was taught to fear Him and to be a good and respectful person to others, regardless of their beliefs. For context, my father went on a mission but didn’t finish it because he struggled with mental health while he was there. He eventually carried that illness throughout his life. My grandparents believed that sending their son on a mission was the reason my father got sick. Even with that regret, my grandfather remained active in the church for a while, but my grandma refused to go anymore.

We were still raised in the church as kids, but my family really didn’t want me to go on a mission out of fear that what happened to my dad might happen to me. I won’t go into details about my father, but he was the kindest person I have ever known. He never forced me to go. My mom isn’t a fan of the idea either. My family now focuses on education. They want a bright future for us. But the church seems to reinforce the idea that you have to “give up everything for the church.”

During an institute discussion that somehow shifted to mental health, a returned missionary in our ward asked something that left me completely speechless: “Why can’t people who are suffering from mental health issues just remember how God has been good to them and how He works in their life?”

As someone who witnessed a loved one, someone who was truly believing, the kindest person I know, the most faithful person I knew, suffer deeply from mental illness, I was shattered to hear that question. That comment crossed a line for me. Mental illness doesn’t care how faithful you are. It doesn’t care how much you remember God’s goodness. My father was proof of that. And to reduce the suffering of real people down to a lack of gratitude or faith is so cruel. I’ve had so many doubts about the church, and moments like this only deepen them. Just needed to get this out.

I went to church Sunday to support a friend. I was totally shocked to see the newest stake speaker guy was literally a dude I’d reported to CPS and church leaders for repeated child and spousal abuse. Some of the details are heartbreaking. I know covering up abuse is so common it’s practically in the articles of faith but geez is there anything else I can do?

I live in a Mormon family and I’ll go to the mission because my mom is forcing me to go. I’ve heard that after a year or a little more if you break a leg or get injured you can go back home, does anybody have more info or any recommendations? I really don’t want to do this for 2 years please help me

I joined a Mormon English class here in Utah (I am from South America). I only went to a few classes, but I started talking to some of the girls there. They were super nice, so I tried to make some small talk to see if we could strike up a friendly vibe. I asked one of them for her WhatsApp and her name, and she replied: Sister and her “last name". At first, it threw me off, but later I found out that while they are on their mission, they can't even use their first names.

The thing is, I genuinely want to socialize. I'd like to meet people to go grab a drink, go dancing, or just make some relaxed weekend plans. But with them, I feel like I'm hitting a brick wall. They are overly polite, and exactly because of that, the interaction becomes super cold and distant, not like a normal friendship at all.

I understand they are fulfilling a role and have strict rules (I know they can't drink alcohol, go to bars, and have to be together all day), but it gives me a bit of frustration feeling like they literally can't do anything outside their script.
Being around here, it's very common to run into this dynamic, and sometimes it gets hard to decode if people are being nice because they actually want to be your friend or because it's just part of their religious protocol.

Has anyone else clashed with this "cold politeness"?

Hi, I’m 15F and live in an extremely Mormon household, I’ve been an atheist for about 2 years, I haven’t told anyone in my family because I’m not financially independent yet and I’m not sure how they would react. My Dad is first counsellor and so the other day he did my recommend interview. When he asked if I was a full tithe payer he stopped and looked at me, he told me he couldn’t give me a recommend if I didn’t make a commitment to pay my full tithing, including what I “owe”. I’ve have a part time job for a couple years so I would probably be close to around $600 and whatever I make during that month. He said he cannot force me and that it’s my decision but that he wants a reason why. I asked him if I could think about it before making a commitment and he told me to pray and come to him on Sunday with an answer and why. I’ve wanted to tell my parents I’m atheist for a while and I’m not sure if I can avoid it anymore. He has been sending me talks and videos about tithing and even told my grandpa, who I am very close to, to talk to me about tithing. I would really appreciate any help or guidance with this because I don’t know what to do.

23M, me and this guy were really good buddies, he really became my closest friend when the guy who baptized me showcased his true colors. I let him know today, that I was leaving the church. He told me he wanted to know why. I didnt want to reveal the full truth about Joseph Smith, or the church because he is both my friend and a TBM. He told me that he didnt like this new me, that he preferred the person I was the last 9 months. I told him that person I was was just a fraud, someone who was submissive and manipulated. He then left me on read. It hurt so much. To accept truth over lies, means my friends wont like me anymore. Why is it so painful.

My whole life I’ve heard how much of a wonderful experience the Temple Endowment is. I finally went to the temple in 2018 and went fairly often between then and when I left the church, but I never really understood why it was considered such a great time. I never once found it enjoyable. Origins aside, it’s such a flawed idea, and I want to get my thoughts on it off my chest. These are thoughts I had even during my believing years, not just exmormon thoughts.

I’ve always been told endowment means gift, but I never found I got anything out of the temple. I’ve identified three things it might refer to, but I want to look at why it fails in each of them.

The first is the “temple things.” The signs and tokens and names. Additionally, temple clothing and the true order of prayer. Supposedly, the signs are what you have to do to get into heaven after you do, but the temple doesn’t teach that. The ceremony itself presents the tokens as if that is something you should know what to do with. During the ceremony, it implies that you can use them to talk to angels, but the temple makes it clear that you aren’t supposed to show anyone, so even if angels were real and you met one, you wouldn’t show them the signs. Similarly, the true order of prayer. Is that something we are supposed to do at home? Do regular prayers not count? It again assumes we understand these things, but nowhere else in the church do these things show up. They are temple things that are only for the temple and don’t benefit us in any other way.

Secondly, the temple is talked about as being incredibly symbolic. I’ve seen every Andrei Tarkovsky, David Lynch, and Igmar Bergman movie many times, so I don’t have any problems with symbols. But the temple symbols don’t add to any greater meaning. Just because the hand symbols represent Jesus doesn’t make them more useful to us. They act more as trivia than deeper learning. The things that supposedly everyone would need to know are not hidden, they are out in the open.

Finally, the endowment has quite a few moments where they break the fourth wall and talk directly to the audience. “You can buy anything with money.” “If these people don’t live up to the covenants made in the temple on this day.” “Some people are receiving these teachings well but not these people.” They don’t make any sense in the conversations between Adam, Satan, and Peter, so it is clear that they are talking to us. But they are so heavy handed, barely able to be considered subtext, and, what’s more, they only repeat what the church already teaches, there is nothing new that would warrant a full ceremony or earn the reputation of being an experience that teaches a lot.

The one area where I will concede is that the temple does bring peace. Even though I am an atheist, I believe in the power of spirituality. Not as a mystic power, but as a way of focusing and calming yourself. But the peace of the temple isn’t anything special. Any place that is quiet that invites thinking would be the same.

These are the only potential benefits I could see as arguments to what the endowment provides, but not of them work for me. In my personal opinion, no one gets anything from it but everyone says they do.
The endowment doesn’t make sense as an ordinance, a word ascribed very lightly. While I don’t believe in baptism or laying on of hands as anything special, they are at least a specific act deemed holy. The endowment is just sitting in a chair for 80 minutes and watching a powerpoint. That barely counts as an action. Also why do the men have to close their eyes for 2 seconds and then stand up?

Even creatively, the endowment is a failure. The script is repetitive. A good editor could cut it down to 30 minutes without losing anything. The modern day choice to not have it as video makes it feel stiff and unnatural, especially because the voice over never feels like an actual human speaking. The rhythm of speaking is forced and monotone, they are only reading lines, never talking to each other. The aforementioned 4th wall breaks keep it tonally confused as well. It’s a chore to sit through, and honestly gave me anxiety with how it is put together.