r/falloutlore

I'll freely admit that this won't be my strongest post given that most of it will rely on idle but informed speculation as well as admittedly lukewarm evidence in a lot of my post. Nevertheless, I'd like to see if my claims can hold up to scrutiny and see what others have to say about the fate of these respective communities post-Fallout 2.

Vault City:

First up is what I think is my strongest argument. That being Vault City definitely having been annexed into the NCR post-Fallout 2. My reasoning for this is as follows.

For starters, we can safely rule out that Vault City was wiped out by the Chosen One given that according to both of those endings, Vault City being wiped out became the stuff of legend:

Vault City Ending #5:

"The slaughter of Vault City has become the stuff of legend. One day it was a thriving community, and the next, the bodies of its Citizens lay strewn throughout the streets. It looked as if raiders had sacked the city, but no bodies of the attackers were ever found. Their Vault was plundered of all its technology, and refugees from Gecko soon moved into the broken walls of the city."

Vault City Ending #6:

"The slaughter of Vault City has become the stuff of legend. One day it was a thriving community, and the next, the bodies of its Citizens lay strewn throughout the streets. It looked as if raiders had sacked the city, but no bodies of the attackers were ever found. Their Vault was plundered of all its technology, and the inhabitants of Gecko soon moved into the broken walls of the city. In a few short months, they had rebuilt the city and restored much of the systems that had been damaged by the raiders."

Now as nobody ever brings up what should be a legendary sacking/destruction of what was one of the largest and most influential power players in Northern California back in Fallout 2 nor ever mentions that it was ever resettled by ghouls, I do believe that it's safe to assume that Vault City was never destroyed. The same could be said of Gecko, as well, given that both of their fates are inextricably intertwined:

Gecko Ending #1:

"The Gecko reactor meltdown had terrible consequences for the region. The resultant radioactivity and heat emanating from the reactor killed every living creature within a ten-kilometer radius and poisoned the area for years to come. Vault City's perceived threat from the peaceful Ghouls of Gecko was at an end."

Gecko Ending #5:

"Eventually the citizens of Vault City tired of having their groundwater radiated by the ghoul's leaking atomic reactor in Gecko. In a wave of xenophobic fear and hatred, the well-armed soldiers of Vault City slaughtered the peaceful ghouls and shut down the reactor for good. Unable to harness any additional sources of power Vault City eventually stagnated and died-itself a victim of its own hatred."

I think it's also very safe to conclude that Vault City was never evacuated due to radiation from Gecko's nuclear reactor continuing to contaminate their water supply given that nobody ever mentions this nor do we get any signs of the NCR having second-class citizens who used to live in Vault City:

Vault City Ending #1:

"Over the next few years, the background radiation from Gecko's power plant began to cause mutations in the Vault City population, forcing the Citizens to relocate to NCR. NCR, however, recalling past animosity, relegated the Vault City refugees to the status of second class citizens."

Granted that the only mentions of Vault City that we get in Fallout: New Vegas is from Rose of Sharon Cassidy who claims that the people of Vault City have become pacifists as well as her ending where she heads back West after the player angers her enough to leave their company for good:

Courier Six: "You any good in a fight?"

Rose of Sharon Cassidy: "I'm fair with chucking dynamite {rising smugness} and not bad with a pistol, if I do say so myself. {Beat, a little lower} Carry a knife, too, but that's more for practical reasons. Prefer settling things with my fists, though. Made more friends than corpses in bar fights - plan on keeping it that way. {Frowns, a little defensive} Don't think I'm some kind of Vault City pacifist, though - if things get heated, I'll start shooting, trust me."

Rose of Sharon Cassidy Leaves the Mojave Ending:

"Despite the destruction of Cassidy Caravans, Cass lived for 30 more years. She made her way back West and passed away in a small shack outside of Vault City, the rose pendant still around her neck."

But I do feel that these mentions bolster my arguments, nonetheless. After all, she makes no mention of Vault City being destroyed (an event that's considered to be the stuff of legends, mind you) nor that there's Ghouls who currently inhabit it or that it's been abandoned. If this is going to be the only mention of Vault City in the closest thing to a proper sequel to Fallout 2 (at least as far as I'm aware), then surely this would be a good time to elaborate on these particular fates if they were indeed the canon fate of Vault City.

Even more telling, however, is that she says that Vault City has become pacifistic since the events of Fallout 2. A definite sign that Vault City has survived given that Vault City was anything but pacifistic back in the events of Fallout 2 (being xenophobic isolationist supremacists that despised outsiders and were perfectly willing to genocide the Ghouls of Gecko just on the mere suspicion that they were deliberately contaminating their groundwater with radiation). If anything these references establish the ending where Vault City and Gecko join forces and work together as equal partners as canon given that it wouldn't feel right for pacifists to enslave the Ghouls of Gecko for any reason as they do in another ending:

Gecko Ending #4:

"Optimizing Gecko's power plant became the first step in forging a spirit of cooperation between Gecko and Vault City. Gecko's increased power production became instrumental in helping Vault City's expansion. The harsh xenophobia of many of Vault City's leaders faded into obscurity while ghoul and human labored side-by-side to create a center of learning and tolerance where once had stood only enmity and distrust"

Gecko Ending #3:

"Optimizing Gecko's reactor creates a power surplus in Gecko. The Vault City council, unable to expand because of their limited power supply, yields to internal pressure and is forced to take over Gecko to control the reactor. The peaceful ghouls of Gecko become slaves and spend the rest of their lives serving Vault City"

And now for the smoking gun. The only way that Vault City can survive as an independent city-state is for President Tandi to be removed from office and replaced by Frank Westin as head of the NCR Council/Senate:

Vault City Ending #2:

"The correspondence between NCR and Vault City continued, and a few years after the destruction of the Enclave, Roger Westin assumed the head of the NCR council. He immediately set limits for NCR's expansion north, and in a landmark settlement, passed an amendment that formally recognized Vault City's independence. Shortly after this settlement, Westin suffered a heart attack and retired from politics. He moved north to Vault City for medical treatment and eventually married Joann Lynette in the following year."

Now aside from the fact that we all know that President Tandi retained the presidency up until her death, we also know that the Republic did in fact become the dominant power of Northern California post-Fallout 2 given that Fallout: New Vegas confirms that the NCR eventually annexed Redding. Something that would've been completely impossible under an isolationist Westin presidency given that he straight-up ceases NCR expansion into Northern California once he assumes the presidency. Meaning that only the two endings where the NCR annexes Vault City can possibly be canon:

Vault City Ending #3:

"In the years to come, Vault City suffered greatly from raider attacks. Eventually, the situation grew so desperate the Citizens were forced to request aid from NCR. Within a month, a large detachment of the NCR's military was stationed in Vault City. The military presence quickly became an occupation force, and Vault City became the first of NCR's border territories."

Vault City Ending #4:

"In the years following the destruction of the Enclave, Vault City continued to stagnate, choking on its own isolationism. Its Vault 8 generator, which was never intended to support such a large population, prevented Vault City's necessary expansion. Eventually, the city was absorbed by NCR, which had spread steadily northwards since its founding."

New Reno:

New Reno Bishop Family Takeover Ending:

"The Bishop Family of New Reno rose to prominence over the next few years, forming a strong political alliance with the New California Republic and Vault City. Many mysterious deaths and closed-door proceedings surrounded the formation of the alliance, but in the end, New Reno became part of the 'civilized' world. The other families were soon absorbed, and New Reno became a prime tourist location for the new republic. In the decades after the alliance, several Bishops rose to political power and were instrumental in the passage of several amendments protecting gambling rights and prostitution."

This one is admittedly going to be a tough sell but I do think that I can provide a decent case for New Reno being part of the NCR's overall sphere of influence without necessarily being directly annexed into the Republic wholesale (though this will soon change as I'll explain later).

Fallout: New Vegas confirms that the Bishop Crime Family is not only still in existence but is not still one of if not already the most power crime family in New Reno. My reasoning for this: Fallout: New Vegas confirms the canon existence of the Bishop Child from one of two New Reno endings in Fallout 2 where the Chosen One knocks up either Bishop's wife or Bishop's daughter:

Courier Six: "No, I don't. What makes you think that?"

Bruce Isaac: "Sorry, it's just... you look like his type, y'know? You got that hard-ass wasteland explorer thing going on."

Courier Six: "Why did you come all the way out here from New Reno?"

Bruce Isaac: "You don't know Mr. Bishop. He's not like the other bosses up there. He knows the Wasteland like the back of his hand, and he likes to wander it. I knew if I didn't get way the hell away from New Reno, he'd run me down like a dog."

New Reno Bishop Child Ending #1:

"In the years following the destruction of the Enclave, a new family arose in New Reno, following the example of a simple tribal that had once visited their city. They were few in number but surprisingly resourceful. Driven by religious fervor, they took control of New Reno and put the other families to the spear. After their victory, they sent out many messengers across Northern California looking for their founder, but without success. Many felt that the founder had been taken by the fortune spirits and now dwelled in a golden casino paradise in the sky."

New Reno Bishop Child Ending #2:

"Not long after the destruction of the Enclave, the Bishop Family of New Reno was blessed with a child. This child seemed to have little in common with the Bishops, preferring instead to spend his days exploring the wastes. When he turned thirteen, he seized control of the Bishop Family and led them to victory over the remaining New Reno families. He died quietly in his sleep at the age of seventy-three, never having known his real father."

Now given that we know that the Wright Crime Family is still in existence thanks to Clayton Ettienne over in Westside, we can safely conclude that the New Reno ending where a tribe of fanatical warriors conquers New Reno and exterminates the other crime families is non-canon:

Courier Six: "What's your story?"

Clayton Ettienne: "Well, I've lived in Nevada all my life. Started out in New Reno, but headed down here as soon as I got the chance. If you can believe it, things are even worse back home. The whole city's still run by crime families. Used to be the Mordinos and Wrights. Now it's the Wrights and Van Graffs. Seems like things never get better. Anyway, that's all behind me now."

We can also conclude from Clayton Ettienne's statement that neither the Mordino Crime Family nor the Salvatore Crime Family took over the city given his confirmation of the Mordino Crime Family's fall from grace (not to mention how they only survive if the Mordino Crime Family becomes the dominant power of Northern California which we know for a fact didn't happen) and the fact that the Salvatore Crime Family never gets mentioned in Fallout: New Vegas (clearly suggesting that they didn't survive the events of Fallout 2).

As for the actual power and influence of the Wright Crime Family, we can safely rule out the New Reno endings where the Wright Crime Family wiped out the other crime families with the ordnance of the Sierra Army Depot or take over New Reno and transform it into a proper civilized city given that the Bishop Crime Family still exists in addition to confirmation from both Clayton Ettienne and Stella from the Honest Hearts DLC that New Reno is still violently anarchic and chaotic:

New Reno Wright Family Takeover Ending #1:

"Less than a month after the Enclave's destruction, a mob war broke out in New Reno streets. The Wrights, armed with an arsenal of weaponry that dated back to the pre-War years, leveled the casinos of the other families with rocket launchers. The 'mob war' was clocked as lasting a little over forty-three minutes, and when the smoke cleared, half of New Reno had been demolished. To this day, it is commonly taught that the Wright Family were the founders of New Reno."

New Reno Wright Family Takeover Ending #2:

"Within a year of the Enclave's destruction, the Wright Family turned from criminal activity to legitimate pursuits. Several schools and churches were established in New Reno, along with a law enforcement body that crippled the influence of the families. Though New Reno lost much of its edge, the city obtained a certain solidity that appealed to newcomers. Many came to Reno, not to visit, but to live, and the population increased threefold. Today the test scores of New Reno high school graduates are greater than many Californian schools before the War."

Courier Six: "What was that like to grow up in New Reno?"

Stella: "Imagine New Vegas if there was no Mr. House-type fella keeping the peace, then give everybody a gun and a Jet addiction. Town's run by a bunch of crime families, no law to speak of. Make trouble, and you wind up buried in Golgotha, outside town. The scuzz factor's off the charts. Non-stop whoring and drugs. Couldn't walk down the street without getting asked to star in a porn movie. So I got my ass out of there while I still owned it. Guess I figured the answer to every problem was rule of law. Naive, huh?"

Nevermind how the continued existence of the Bishop Crime Family as well as the new arrival of the Van Graffs automatically rules out the Wright Crime Family having full control of New Reno on their own.

As for the rest of argument, Carter over in the NCRCF claims to be a citizen of New Reno whereas Mags of the Misfits claims to be born and raised in New Reno before signing up to join the NCR Army:

Courier Six: "What did you do to end up here in the first place?"

Carter: "I worked in a casino in New Reno, and one of the pit bosses decided he didn't like me. Framed me over some caps, and I ended up in here."

Courier Six: "Tell me a little about yourself."

Mags: "Not much to tell, really. I grew up in New Reno, joined up, took my shot at being a Ranger. Didn't make it, so I'm stuck with this crew of jokers."

It simply wouldn't be possible for a citizen of an independent New Reno to be imprisoned in an NCR penal colony unless the NCR at the very least had a substantial presence in the city whereas a native of New Reno being able to enlist into and join the NCR Army only seems possible if the NCR already had a strong foothold in New Reno.

Now for the negatives. The fact stands that as of the events of Fallout: New Vegas, the Bishop Crime Family doesn't have full control of New Reno given the continued existence of the Wright Crime Family and the arrival of the Van Graffs (who are openly hostile to the NCR). In other words, this alone precludes the possibility of the NCR being able to annex New Reno outright given that they wouldn't have the means to do so without waging a full-scale war against much of the city.

But the final nail of the coffin in New Reno being a fully-annexed NCR territory is as follows:

Courier Six: "<Lie> The Omertas are planning to attack New Reno. It's none of NCR's concern."

Col. Cassandra Moore: "[SUCCEEDED] I wouldn't dismiss it that lightly, but it's nothing we need get involved with for now. Good work, I suppose."

Suffice it to say that there's no way on Earth that the NCR would ever allow a foreign aggressor to attack a fully-annexed territory of the Republic. And they certainly wouldn't be so dismissive of plans by a possible foreign aggressor to attack New Reno if it were truly annexed into the NCR.

Final Verdict: The NCR clearly has a strong presence in the city thanks to the Bishop Crime Family but they can't exert full control/authority over the city due to the Wright Crime Family and the Van Graffs guaranteeing the continued de jure independence of New Reno. However, the confirmed canon existence of the Bishop Child means that the Bishop Crime Family will eventually defeat the Wright Crime Family and drive the Van Graffs out of New Reno as per the second Bishop Child ending for New Reno in Fallout 2. Meaning that it will eventually be properly annexed by the Republic once this unfolds.

New Arroyo:

This is definitely going to be my shortest and weakest argument out of the three. All I have to offer is this quote from Emily Ortal of the Followers of the Apocalypse:

Courier Six: "How long have you been with the Followers?"

Emily Ortal: "About five years now. I have family back in Arroyo, but this is where all of the good work is being done, so to speak. NCR taxes and inflation have been hard for a lot of people to deal with, and most of the money is going to the war effort. There's not much funding for medical research with OSI or any other group - not unless it has a military application, anyway."

Now while I'd personally argue that it makes absolutely zero logical sense that Emily Ortal would just randomly bring up New Arroyo out of nowhere only to then go on a tangent about NCR taxation and inflation (which she wouldn't even bring up unless New Arroyo was part of the NCR as said tangent wouldn't make sense, otherwise), I can understand why some would view this as being insufficient evidence. This is far from being a smoking gun thus I can't say with certainty or even any strong confidence that New Arroyo is part of the NCR. Though I do think that it is.

And that's all she wrote. Cheers.

Do the brotherhood run farms or sustain themselves in anyway

My case for Vault City, New Reno and New Arroyo being Part of the NCR by the Events of Fallout: New Vegas:

Unit 731 and the US wartime government in Fallout. OWB