Here are the concept art for any villain Tim Burton had envisioned with Michael McDowell, Larry Wilson, The Geffen Company, Sam Hamm, Warren Skaaren, Daniel Waters, Wesley Strick, Joel Schumacher, Lee and Janet Scott Batchler, Akiva Goldsman, Jonathan Gems, Kevin Smith, Dan Gilroy, Scott Rudin, Jon Peters, Peter Guber, Denise DiNovi, and Peter MacGregor-Scott for Warner Bros., Paramount Pictures, and 20th Century Fox.
Alright, lets compare the two Batman Forever fan posters. The one did by SkunkLovesFox on DeviantArt had Michael Keaton, Robin Williams, Billy Dee Williams, Michelle Pfeiffer, and Marlon Wayans, and the other by Le Chevalier Noir on Twitter (X), aka TheDarkKnightWhoEdits from YouTube, still had Keaton and Williams, but with Tommy Lee Jones, Rene Russo, and Chris O'Donnell.
The one by SkunkLovesFox on DeviantArt is very fucking bad, and the one the Le Chevalier Noir is better, because it was based on Joel Schumacher's original intention to have Keaton, Williams, and Russo in the film before Val Kilmer, Jim Carrey, and Nicole Kidman joined the film.
Over the years, fans of the Tim Burton Batman films were thinking about what Tim Burton had for a third Batman movie. Rumors claimed Burton had been planning a film called Batman Continues, with Michael Keaton returning as Batman, Michelle Pfeiffer returning as Catwoman, and Billy Dee Williams returning as Harvey Dent to be turned into Two-Face.
Rumors also claimed that Burton wanted to do The Riddler, with Robin Williams in the role, supposedly with a question mark shaved into his head, and Brad Dourif as The Scarecrow, and to have Marlon Wayans as Robin. Rumors also claimed that the film would have The Riddler being the more dark and creepy villain who's more sinister and psychopathic.
Rumors also claimed that Burton had the cast ready for the film, and was removed from the film, though the rumors about Batman Continues were false and were made up.
It has revealed that Tim Burton had one meeting with Warner Bros., and they tried to talk Tim into making something more family friendly and more kid friendly, the more dark and realistic with humanity and realism, and something smaller, closer to Batman '89, though Tim decided to be away from directing and stayed on as producer. Joel Schumacher was getting ready to film The Client (based off the John Grisham novel), and Warner Bros. execs Bob Daley and Terry Semel approached him about doing the next Batman film, but only if Tim hired him. So Joel left the breakfast meeting, flew up to New York, had lunch with Tim, and Tim hired Joel to continue with the Batman franchise he started and to direct the next Batman film. After Joel was recruited, Tim met with the writers Lee and Janet Scott Batchler, and Tim helped out hiring the Batchlers to write the screenplay for the film. Tim went on to do Ed Wood and he gave Joel his input. Akiva Goldsman, who confirmed the existence of the Schumacher Cut of Batman Forever after Joel died, later did revisions.
Otherwise, it was Joel Schumacher who wanted Michael Keaton to return as Batman for Batman Forever with the Batchlers writing it with his voice in mind, and the Batchlers created Chase Meridian as Batman's love interest, since they're against the returns of Kim Basinger's Vicki Vale and Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman, and Joel originally cast Rene Russo as Chase. When Val Kilmer was cast, Rene was just a little older for Val, and the role of Chase went to Nicole Kidman.
It was also Joel Schumacher who wanted to do Two-Face for Batman Forever, and he only cast Tommy Lee Jones in the role, because Tommy Lee Jones was a big star. He's marquee. And they worked with him on The Fugitive (the producers did), and Joel worked with Jones on The Client. And it was the Batchlers who wanted to do The Riddler, and Joel Schumacher is also the one who wanted Robin Williams as The Riddler with the Batchlers writing it with his comedic delivery, and Robin talked to Akiva about The Riddler in his kitchen in San Francisco, California. Robin read the script for Batman Forever and he loved it, and due to a salary dispute, the role went to Jim Carrey, and Jim is the one who had the idea of The Riddler with a question mark shaved into his head, but that was abandoned, because Carrey was going through a divorce court at the time, and he cannot show up in court with a question mark shaved into his head.
It was also Joel Schumacher who wanted to do Robin (Dick Grayson) in the film, and the Batchlers talked to their assistant Darlene, who grew up in the circus, and she's part of a big circus family of acrobats, and they came up with an idea of Robin with a big circus family of acrobats.
Tim did approached Brad Dourif for a Batman villain, but for The Joker in Batman 89, before it went to Jack Nicholson, and it was Joel Schumacher who wanted to do The Scarecrow in a Batman movie, but for Batman Unchained, with him planning to cast Nicolas Cage, who starred in his film, 8mm.
The character of Catwoman was never in any draft of Batman Forever, only for archive footage, and Tim and Michelle were planning on a Catwoman spin off at the time.
For those who believe in the Burton Batman 3 rumors, don't believe those rumors, and listen to Superhero Stuff You Should Know and the Epic Film Guys podcast, and the two audio dramas by Neuverse Media (Tim Burton's Batman 3, Batman Forever: The Schumacher Cut).
What if Tim Burton directed Batman Forever with Michael Keaton returning as Batman/Bruce Wayne with the Keaton Batmobile, the Anton Furst Gotham City, and the Danny Elfman Batman score? It would be way more good if he did that.
Keaton's Bruce would even more darker and serious when he has to face about why he became Batman in the first place, and to deal with his duality by embracing it.
Burton would direct it for Warner Bros., but with the screenplay by Lee and Janet Scott Batchler with Akiva Goldsman, the neon lights, Seal's Kiss From A Rose, the "I'll get drive thru" line, and everything.
Michael Keaton's Batman, in the film, would face Tommy Lee Jones' Two-Face and Jim Carrey's Riddler, meeting that a much darker hero would face the clownish, cartoonish, flamboyant, over the top villains in Gotham City.
Keaton's Batman would also have romantic scenes with Nicole Kidman's Chase Meridian, just like their chemistry in My Life, and have Keaton's Batman with Chris O'Donnell's Robin/Dick Grayson.
The Danny Elfman music would be used for the film, like the scores for the first two films would be used for Batman, with the music from Beetlejuice would be used for Two-Face, the music from Pee-Wee's Big Adventure would be used for The Riddler, the music from Edward Scissorhands would be used for Chase Meridian, and the music from Darkman would be used for Robin.
Thank God for Tim when he hired his friend Joel Schumacher to continue with the Batman franchise he started and helping out hiring the Batchlers as the screenwriters for Batman Forever, after Warner Bros. gave Joel permission to let Tim hired him to direct the next Batman film.
Here are the costume designs for Jack Nicholson's Joker, Danny DeVito's Penguin, Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman, Tommy Lee Jones' Two-Face, Jim Carrey's Riddler, Arnold Schwarzenegger's Mr. Freeze, Uma Thurman's Poison Ivy, and Jeep Swenson's Bane.
Bob Ringwood, Mary Vogt, Carlos Huante, Wil Res, and Miles Teves did those designs for the eight villains in all four for Warner Bros., and they have looked very theatrical, different, but well-designed.
Besides Michael Keaton's character of Beetlejuice, Jack Nicholson's Joker, and Tommy Lee Jones' Two-Face, Jim Carrey's Riddler is one of the over the top and goofy villains Batman Forever producer Tim Burton and director Joel Schumacher had seen.
Edward Nygma was this guy who works as a scientist/inventor for Wayne Enterprises and he was a fan of Bruce Wayne. When Bruce rejects him, Edward becomes Bruce's enemy.
He teamed with Two-Face as they did their robberies for a lair at Claw Island.
Before Jim was cast as The Riddler, Joel offered The Riddler to Robin Williams with the Batchlers writing the character with his comedic delivery, and Robin talked to Akiva Goldsman about The Riddler in his kitchen in San Francisco, since they already have Tommy Lee Jones as Two-Face. Robin read the script for Batman Forever and he loved it, and his management wanted $15 million and the percentage of the gross and the percentage of merchandising, the same thing Michael Keaton was going to get. While Warner Bros. spent $30 million on both Michael and Robin, Jim was cast.
Over the years, fans of the Tim Burton Batman movies believed that Tim was going to do a third movie titled "Batman Continues," with Michael Keaton returning as Batman/Bruce Wayne, Michelle Pfeiffer returning as Catwoman/Selina Kyle, and Billy Dee Williams as Harvey Dent to be turned into Two-Face, with Robin Williams playing a dark and creepy Riddler, and Brad Dourif as The Scarecrow.
They think that Tim had the cast ready before he was fired from the franchise, though that wasn't really the case. Batman Forever never started as a Tim Burton project. It was always Joel Schumacher's baby, according to Ben Wan and Andrew Bush on the Superhero Stuff You Should Know podcast. According to their interview with Lee and Janet Scott Batchler, Tim Burton's only involvement with Batman Forever as producer was to hire his friend Joel Schumacher as director and help out hiring the Batchlers as the screenwriters for the film with additions by Akiva Goldsman, who confirmed the existence of the Schumacher Cut of Batman Forever after Joel died.
The actual person who's cast in Batman Forever was Tommy Lee Jones as Two-Face, because he was a big star. He's marquee. And they worked with him on The Fugitive (the producers did), and Joel worked with him on The Client (based off the John Grisham novel). Jones accepted the role, because the character of Two-Face was his son's favorite character.
It was Joel Schumacher who wanted Michael Keaton to come back and play Batman/Bruce Wayne, Rene Russo to play Dr. Chase Meridian, and Robin Williams to play The Riddler before Val Kilmer, Nicole Kidman, and Jim Carrey joined the film.
And yes, Tim wanted Brad Dourif to appear in a Batman movie, but approaching him to play The Joker in Batman '89 before Jack Nicholson was cast. And it was Joel who wanted to do The Scarecrow for a Batman movie, but for Batman Unchained, with him planning to cast Nicolas Cage, who starred in his film, 8mm.
Here are the 16 Tim Burton villains: Frances Buxton (Mark Holton), Beetlejuice (Michael Keaton), The Joker/Jack Napier (Jack Nicholson), The Penguin/Oswald Chesterfield Cobblepot (Danny DeVito), Catwoman/Selina Kyle (Michelle Pfeiffer), Two-Face/Harvey Dent (Tommy Lee Jones), The Riddler/Edward Nygma (Jim Carrey), Mr. Freeze/Dr. Victor Fries (Arnold Schwarzenegger), Poison Ivy/Dr. Pamela Lillian Isley (Uma Thurman), Bane/Antonio Diego (Jeep Swenson), Max Shreck (Christopher Walken), Sugar & Spice (Drew Barrymore and Debi Mazar), Dr. Jason Woodrue (John Glover), Oogie Boogie, The Martian Leader (Frank Welker), and Lady Mary Van Tessel (Miranda Richardson).
Though Tim didn't return for Batman & Robin, because he had other projects in the works, the film set in the same universe as Batman '89, Batman Returns, and Batman Forever the way he and his friend Joel Schumacher had created between 1989 and 1997, despite what other people were saying.
Jack Nicholson and Arnold Schwarzenegger were Danny DeVito's friends, and Tommy Lee Jones hated working with Jim Carrey on Batman Forever, due to the box office failure of Cobb when Jones said to Carrey "I cannot sanction your buffoonery."
Sammy Davis Jr was Tim's original choice for Beetlejuice, though the role went to Michael Keaton. Joel Schumacher and the Batchlers offer The Riddler to Robin Williams during production of Batman Forever, with Robin loved the script for the film, and due to a salary dispute, the role went to Jim Carrey.
Both Willem Dafoe and Ray Liotta were considered for both Batman and The Joker, though Batman went to Michael Keaton and The Joker went to Jack Nicholson.
Oogie Boogie was not in the poem for The Nightmare Before Christmas, only the film version.
Tim always had a thing for theatricality when it comes to the villains.
Though Batman & Robin is not technically a Tim Burton film, because he and Val Kilmer left the franchise after Batman Forever, due to other commitments, like Tim was doing Mars Attacks, and Val went on to do The Saint after he was fired by Joel Schumacher from the Batman role, due to his bad behavior on the Batman Forever set, it's the fourth installment of the Burton/Schumacher Batman film franchise.
When Batman & Robin first came out, it caused a huge backlash like Batman Returns did, but this time, for being more like "Batman '66 on ice," or a "credit card movie," the film later received cult status like Batman Returns did.
This month is Pride Month, so I decide to post Miles Teves' costume designs for George Clooney's Batman, Chris O'Donnell's Robin, Uma Thurman's Poison Ivy, and Alicia Silverstone's Batgirl.
What I like about Batman & Robin is that it deals with reckon with loss, when Joel and Akiva Goldsman made Batgirl Alfred's niece rather than Commissioner Gordon's daughter. It also had great visual effects, and Arnold Schwarzenegger made a best Mr. Freeze, and of course, queer power.
If Tim Burton and Val Kilmer did return for Batman & Robin, then Jack Nicholson, Danny DeVito, Michelle Pfeiffer, Tommy Lee Jones, and Jim Carrey would return with them, and so as Michael Keaton.
I'm proud of Batman & Robin, as much as I was proud of Batman '89, Batman Returns, and Batman Forever. Joel did apologize for Batman & Robin, but received cult status years later.
I have fancast Tim Burton's Superman Lives. Superman Lives was gonna be directed by Tim Burton, produced by Jon Peters and Peter MacGregor-Scott, written by Kevin Smith, Wesley Strick and Dan Gilroy, based on Superman characters created by Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster and published by DC Comics, co-producer Kevin J. Messick, executive producers Arnold Koppelson and Lorenzo Di Bonaventura, Director of Photography Peter Suchitzky A.S.C., production designer Rich Heinrichs, edited by Dennis Virkler A.C.E., music by Danny Elfman, costume designer Colleen Atwood, Visual Effects supervisor Marc Solomon, Special Brainiac makeup/effects designed by Rick Baker, Special Doomsday and Menagerie effects by Steve Johnson, and casting by Marion Dougherty.
Though it was never made, due to budget constraints, it would be cool to see it getting made, and it would be another smaller film Tim was gonna direct, after he did Pee-Wee's Big Adventure, Beetlejuice, Batman '89 and Edward Scissorhands as director, and both The Nightmare Before Christmas (directed by Henry Slick) and Batman Forever (directed by Tim's friend Joel Schumacher) as producer.
If it was made, then it would have songs like ABBA's Fernando, Olivia Newton-Johns' Physical, John Denver's I Want To Live, Boston's Smokin, Pink Floyd's Wish You Were Here, Journey's Who's Cryin Now, Steve Miller Band's Abracadabra, Harry Chapin's Cats In The Cradle, Michael Jackson's Thriller, Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody, The Beatles' Let It Be, and The Rolling Stones' Gimme Shelter.
So, here's my fancast for Superman Lives, after I cross referencing the scripts for this flick:
And imagine Superman Lives being filmed at Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania between October 1997 and March 1998? That would awesome if they ever did that.
Pittsburgh is literally built at the meeting of rivers, cliffs, and bridges, with the Golden Triangle and the confluence at Point State Park become visual metaphors for Clark's crossroads, with the steel skeletons of the city echo Brainiac's cold, biomechanical aesthetic, and of course, the hills and inclines would give Tim the verticality he loves - frames where Superman is always emerging from shadow into light.
Downtown/PPG Place would be used for the LexCorp exterior shots, while the Cathedral of Learning would be used for the scenes featuring the Kryptonian archives and Fortress of Solitude interiors. Both the Strip District and the South Side would be used for the Metropolis Street level scenes and scenes featuring the Daily Planet, while the Mount Washington Overlook would be used for Superman's first flight.
They would also film Superman Lives in Alaska between 1997 and 1998, which would be a perfect fit for the exterior and interior shots of the Fortress of Solitude, including North Slope and Arctic Coast, Glacier Fields near Denail or Wrangell-St. Elias, and Prince William Sound or Kenai Fjords.
For the Skull Ship Interiors, they would be shot at EUE/Screen Gems Studios at Wilmington, North Carolina.
For the interiors of the Fortress of Solitude, they would shot the scenes at Stage 16 on the Warner Bros. lot at Burbank, California, along with the climatic showdown featuring Superman saving Lois Lane and Jimmy Olsen from the Thanagarian Snare Beast, with Stage 21-25 for the LexCorp interiors, Daily Planet interiors at Stage 5 or Stage 24, Stages 15 and 30 for the fight to the death scenes featuring Superman kicking the ass of the killing machine Doomsday, and the Warner Bros. backlot would be used for Superman's funeral, including Hennessy Street, New York Street, and of course, Midwest Street.
And for the Krypton scenes, they would be shot at the Warner Bros. Movie World at Queensland, Australia.
If Superman Lives was released on July 4, 1998, it would be better than Superman IV: The Quest For Peace any day.
Here's HR Giger's art for the Batmobile in Batman Forever, directed by Joel Schumacher, produced by Tim Burton and Peter MacGregor-Scott, music by Elliot Goldenthal, and written by Lee and Janet Scott Batchler with Akiva Goldsman.
After Tim Burton hired his friend Joel Schumacher as director and help out hiring the Batchlers as the screenwriters, Warner Bros. was looking for a new Batmobile for the film, and Joel recruited Giger.
When Giger showed Joel his art for the Batmobile, and Joel was like, "Jesus Christ, how am I going to add that in the film." So, Giger was dismissed from the film, and Tim Flattery did the final design.
Here's Burton's art for Batman Returns. What Tim did was he doesn't want the film to be a sequel to 89. So, he made this as it's own movie.
Batman Returns had a negative reaction and caused a huge backlash. Kids families, along with comic book fans, knew that it's not like Batman 89 at all.
After the backlash, Tim Burton had one meeting with Warner Bros., and he told them that he's not gonna direct another Batman movie, and stayed on as producer when he passed on the torch to his friend Joel Schumacher to continue with the Batman franchise he started, after Warner Bros. gave Joel permission to let Tim hired him to direct Batman Forever.
Here's Tim's art for Edward Scissorhands, starring Johnny Depp and Winona Ryder.
Here's Tim's art for Batman 89, starring Michael Keaton and Jack Nicholson. Tim was hired to direct Batman 89 in 1985, and he and Julie Hickson did a treatment for the film before Sam Hamm and Warren Skkaren did numerous drafts for the film.
And here's Tim's art for Beetlejuice (1988).
Here's the artwork director Tim Burton did for his directorial debut, Pee-Wee's Big Adventure (1985).
Imagine Joel Schumacher doing Batman Forever with Michael Keaton, Robin Williams, and Renee Russo co-starring with Tommy Lee Jones and Chris O'Donnell? That would be awesome!
Writers Lee and Janet Scott Batchler wrote the earlier drafts of Batman Forever for Michael Keaton, Tommy Lee Jones, and Robin Williams, while Akiva Goldsman, who later confirmed the existence of the Schumacher Cut of Batman Forever after Joel died, doing the exact same thing when he starts to do revisions.
Joel Schumacher really wanted Michael Keaton to return as Batman for Batman Forever before Val Kilmer was cast, Rene Russo to play Dr. Chase Meridian before Nicole Kidman was cast, and Robin Williams to play The Riddler before Jim Carrey was cast, since they already have Tommy Lee Jones as Two-Face.
John Jackson Miller later uses Joel's idea of the Robin Williams Riddler for his novel "Batman: Revolution," where Riddler's real name is Norman Pinkus.
Here are the DC Comics in a more Burton flair, five from the first three Batman movies (the first two he directed, and the third he produced), and three from the unmade Superman Lives film.