u/Intelligent_Dingo47

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Thanks to a user here for sharing this link:

‎https://kalinara.blogspot.com/2006/07/unpopular-opinion-why-dickbarbara.html?m=1

‎And this is where I think Dan didio was actually onto something. Whatever people think of him, his criticism of Dickbabs makes sense when you look at what the pairing has done to them individually.

‎Barbara is a huge casualty of it. She used to have her own world (both Gotham and Burnside), her own career (congresswoman/librarian/office job), her own relationships (Jason Bard, Ted Kord, Dinah, Jim) and her own motivations.

‎In their original Nightwing/Oracle version, they broke up because Barbara realized she loved her independence more than she loved Dick. And also because Dick kept playing "remember when" on their dates. Barbara didn't want to live in the past, but Dick kept reminding her of their past, back when they were kids and back when she could still walk. Barbara realized they were only together because of nostalgia and not because they were good for each other, so they broke up. (Their relationship was becoming increasingly toxic and unhealthy anyway, with writers undermining Kory and Helena, while Barbara was portrayed as jealous and misogynistic toward them, she slutshamed Helena and refused to help Kory save her dying people simply because they had been involved with Nightwing. There were also numerous instances where Barbara verbally or physically lashed out at Dick when he was only trying to be kind to her. They’re simply incompatible. It’s gotten to the point where Dick can’t even make decisions for himself or stand up for himself because he worries about making Barbara even angrier.)

That should have been the end of Dickbabs. There was no point in going back to it. Respect her decision. Put their past behind them. The writers realized they were actually boring to write together and that it was a mistake putting them together in the first place. Let them stay friends. But no, Tom Taylor decided to revive their relationship for the sake of shipping.

‎So in the past, Dickbabs didn't work out in the end because Barbara was more independent and thinks about herself but now, in order for them to work, Barbara has to lose her independence and her personality needs to be changed. And now she's no longer the same person she once was. So much of her characterization now begins and ends with Dick. From a woman who values her own space to someone who constantly chases a man and forces herself into his own personal space.

‎In Tom Taylor's run, Barbara left Gotham. She abandoned her own job and dad in Gotham to follow Dick around like a dog in Bludhaven, serve him and stay stuck in his apartment all day. She has no career there. No friends there. No special relationships with anyone else. No self goals. All she's focusing on is Dick, his apartment, his pet and his own agency. Everything she does is for Dick. She doesn't get to have a life that isn't centered around Dick. Unlike Kory, who had a job as a model when she dated Dick in NTT, Barbara has no job of her own.

‎We're told in Tom Taylor's run that Barbara has a law degree, but it's practically useless because she didn't use it to apply for a job, she was still unemployed. Years of schooling, only for her to throw her degree away to be Dick's full-time girlfriend and therapist in Bludhaven.

‎There are also a few scenes in Tom Taylor's run where Barbara was willing to put Dick above her responsibilities as a hero. She asked Dick to take her on vacation while people were still being murdered in the streets. When Dick had to team up with Bea to solve an important mission, Barbara asked him to abandon the mission and come back home to her instead out of jealousy. In another scene, Barbara was desperate to have sex with Dick and initiated it even while knowing that a villain who hadn't been put in jail was still there in the other room. She is entirely defined by a man. She is not written like a hero. Just Dick's whiny girlfriend.

‎Even her own superhero identity has been taken away from her. Tom Taylor wrote her getting called "Girl Nightwing," and he was totally fine with treating Barbara like that because in his mind it's for dickbabs shipping content.

‎https://screenrant.com/nightwing-romance-batgirl-ruined-her-superhero-reputation/

‎After Tom Taylor left Nightwing, other writers were influenced by his obsession and also made Barbara an accessory to Dick in their books. The first few issues of Dan Watters run had Barbara still cooped up in Dick's apartment and she throwed tantrums in front of Martian Manhunter when she found out Dick went on an important mission without her. Dick having space for himself is a crime to her. She won't stop calling him "Boy Wonder" on almost every page, making that word her character-defining trait. It was revealed she's still the unemployed girlfriend who just takes Dick's pet out for a walk.

‎Other books like Boy Wonder, Outlaws Webtoon, Batman: Dark Age, DC vs. Vampires, etc. have Barbara being entirely useless and only showing up to be Dick's love interest. When the writer of Boy Wonder was asked why he put Barbara in Damian's book when they're not that close, his only answer was, and I quote, "mostly because she’s not here in relation to Damian, she’s here in relation to Dick. Someone for him to play off of and display some of his attributes." He didn't view Barbara as a character with her own identity and history. Just Dick's property.

‎In DC vs. Vampires, Barbara keeps flirting with Dick despite their friends being murdered. Her entire storyline revolves around Dick and chasing him. After Dick was revealed to be the vampire, it was revealed that Barbara's greatest desire was actually to be Dick's queen, which is completely selfish of her. She kissed Dick even knowing he's the one who killed her loved ones. And even though she killed Dick in the end, Barbara was then immediately killed by Damian. This proves that, to the writers' reasoning (imo) killing Barbara was necessary because she's useless now that Dick is dead. Her only purpose in the run is to be Dick's love interest, nothing more. And now that he's gone, there's nothing to use her for. So the writer killed her that fast.

‎And the longer this goes on, the more it ruins people's perception of Barbara. People are so used to seeing Barbara with Dick all the time that they now complain that Barbara isn't interesting without Dick anymore. Take, for example, her current limited series, Barbara Gordon: Breakout. It gets constantly called boring, and even her own fans say there's nothing interesting about it. Even DickBabs shippers don't like it because she's not with Dick there. But that's exactly what happens when you spend years writing a character as nothing more than someone's girlfriend. You can't erase someone's individuality and then act surprised when they don't feel compelling on their own.

‎Dick isn't much better off either. His characterization has also increasingly become tied to the relationship instead of allowing him to shine on his own. Because Barbara refuses to leave him tf alone, this resulted in Dick being intellectually dumbed down and written as increasingly reliant on Barbara's tech skills to handle his own missions, just to justify her overwhelming presence in his life. It's an unhealthy, codependent relationship. Both characters used to feel like fully realized individuals who happened to be in a relationship. Now, it often feels like the relationship is the most important thing about them.

‎Dickbabs doesn't work well romantically because the way it's been written actively weakens both characters. A ship shouldn't require two established characters to lose their individuality just to make the relationship work. When it comes to Dickbabs, no matter the version, you can rest assured that the characters will end up getting hurt, sacrificing themselves, and losing a significant part of who they are just to push the ship. (And their other important relationships are either belittled or erased )

I chose Nightwing because the fans always say he's the DC equivalent to Spiderman Now I wanna see who fans think is the MJ of Nightwing. 👀

Personally, I think MJ and Starfire would get along SO well. They’re both canonically models, love fashion, have big outgoing personalities and would probably hype each other up constantly. (I hope the Barbara Fans who lurk around this sub won't attack me for this)

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