Pyke League of Legends

This isn’t a no-reg. It’s the revive i-frames consuming the Sledgehammer overhead.

Whenever someone is in an i-frame state, whether from a Defib revive, a hand revive, or Nullify, their hitbox can still consume single-hit melee attacks such as Sledgehammer overhead and Dagger stab.

Because these attacks don’t have multi-hit, they stop on the first body they collide with, even if that player is invulnerable. The attack is effectively wasted instead of continuing into the player you were actually aiming at.

That’s exactly what happened here. The Light had just finished reviving the Heavy. The Heavy spawned with revive i-frames, my overhead collided with the Heavy’s invulnerable hitbox, and the attack was consumed instead of hitting the Light standing directly in my face.

Season 11 hotfix removed multi-hit from Sledge overhead, and I still don’t understand why. Bringing it back wouldn’t suddenly make them overpowered. In almost every match it would change nothing. It would simply stop invulnerable players from unintentionally body-blocking attacks that cannot be redirected.

If you knowingly stack directly behind a teammate against a Sledgehammer or Dagger, I don’t think the game should protect you from that. If a Sledgehammer lines up two players with an overhead, or a Dagger lines up two targets with a stab, both should be hit. That’s good positioning from the melee player and poor positioning from the defenders.

There is no concept of a side hit, dagger hit registration is 100% position based and has no concept of “missing cause you hit the shoulder” I hate people tryna tell me “oh you should have aimed more at the back” THAT DOESNT EXIST I can be perfectly precise and get fucked over by desync

I genuinely cannot begin to explain how much I hate this melee rework.

Sword M1 gameplay is still prevalent. Sword lunge gameplay is arguably worse than before.

Dagger still has a self-slow, unreliable backstabs, a crippled stab range since the Season 11 rework, awful non-backstab breakpoints, and no meaningful incentive to ever be picked over an M11 or virtually any other Light weapon.

Spear shipped with 74 precision damage.

Dual Blades are still plagued by movement penalties and a parry that barely functions.

Riot Shield was buffed to 83 damage instead of 88, meaning four precise strikes don't even kill a Heavy.

Nearly every melee weapon feels worse to play than before.

What I don't understand is why Embark is so terrified of letting melee actually be strong, even for a two-week test patch.

We've had dominant gun metas for weeks or months at a time:

• 93R

• V9S

• LH1

• Model

• Pike

• Cerberus

• Repeater

• ShAK-50

• KS-23

• Titan

Every one of these weapons has been allowed to exist while data was gathered and balance changes came later.

But God forbid melee gets the same treatment.

Name me one point in THE FINALS' history where melee as a whole was genuinely strong.

Not one weapon.

Melee.

The only answer people ever give is Sledge, and even then it wasn't Sledge that was broken. It was Winch enabling guaranteed 200-damage hits with very little execution. The weapon itself was never dominating the game.

So just go nuclear for once.

Buff Dagger to 75 primary damage.

Let Backstab one-shot Heavies.

Give Spear 90 damage.

Buff Riot Shield to 100 DMG

Make Dual Blades an actual threat.

Remove unnecessary movement penalties.

Do it for two weeks.

Collect the data.

Because I genuinely believe melee is still so far from becoming meta that even those changes wouldn't suddenly replace guns. Most people boot up THE FINALS because they want to play an FPS. Buffing melee isn't suddenly going to make everyone abandon guns

Stop balancing melee as if it's always one patch away from dominating the game.

Years of history suggest the exact opposite.

A full, documented breakdown of the melee rework is currently in the works, because I honestly cannot remember the last time melee felt this unrewarding to play.

Lunge update still doesn’t make up for dagger stab range nerf from 3m to 2m

l've been playing E-Barbs since they released in 2017-2018is.I used to play Lumberjack before replacing it with Rage. I used to play Musketeer before Magic Archer, Heal Spell before Heal Spirit became a thing, and Ice Spirit before switching to Freeze after realising how much value it gets. I've been this disgusting, cheesy mid-ladder menace running around with this E-Barbs cycle deck for years. Seeing Evo E-Barbs finally happen feels like a dream.

After spending basically my last two days playing nothing but melee (I'm employed full-time and took two days off specifically for this update), here are my thoughts.

I genuinely wanted to like this update. When I first loaded in, stamina, precision attacks, kick and melee lunge sounded like exactly what melee needed. On paper this looked like the biggest step melee has ever taken. After roughly 12-15 hours of almost exclusively playing melee, however, I honestly think almost every melee weapon came out worse. My biggest issues aren't just the balancing, but also the lack of transparency surrounding many of the changes.

Please document fundamental weapon changes.

If you're shipping an update centered entirely around melee, major weapon changes shouldn't be left for players to discover themselves. Sword's attack speed was reduced, Dagger's secondary Backstab sweep appears to have been reduced by roughly 0.75m, yet neither of those changes are documented. These aren't tiny numerical tweaks. They fundamentally change how a melee weapon feels to play, especially when spacing and muscle memory are such a huge part of mastering them.

Embark has already been through this once. Back in Season 4.6, Sword's secondary hit sweep was reduced by roughly 55cm. The weapon immediately felt awful because you suddenly had to be much closer to land hits consistently. After an entire season of feedback, that change was reverted in Season 5.8 because melee weapons simply don't feel responsive when their effective range gets cut. That exact situation is what Dagger feels like now.

Dagger

My biggest complaint actually isn't the melee lunge. I think the idea is perfectly fine and I genuinely wanted to learn it. What frustrates me is that it feels like someone looked at Dagger and decided, "We're giving it a stronger lunge, so we can shorten its Backstab range." I don't understand that logic at all because the lunge doesn't even work in the situations Dagger spends most of its time in.

The lunge doesn't activate while dashing, sliding, jumping or falling, which are exactly the movement states Dagger constantly revolves around. I specifically tested this by playing five full Cashout matches while forcing myself to incorporate the new lunge into my gameplay as much as possible. Across those five games, I counted exactly four situations where the lunge genuinely helped me reach someone. Every other kill still came from dash movement, sprint-jump slides, dropping from height or simply getting into normal Backstab range manually.

Even worse, there were multiple occasions where the lunge activated, carried me toward the target, and the Backstab still failed because the active frames expired or the shortened stab range simply wasn't enough to connect. That's my entire issue. The lunge doesn't replace what Dagger lost.

The primary also feels substantially worse than before. Glancing attacks now deal 42 damage, while precision attacks deal 60. I completely understand the idea of rewarding precision, but right now precision isn't actually rewarding you with stronger breakpoints. It's simply giving you the old damage while making every non-perfect hit dramatically weaker. Missing a single precision hit immediately ruins your combo damage. If precision attacks dealt something like 67-70 damage, where landing them genuinely improved breakpoints, I'd understand the philosophy. As it stands, the weapon just feels weaker.

The primary melee lunge also barely functions. If you attack while sprinting, you're immediately forced down to walking speed despite the lunge itself barely carrying enough momentum to matter. It feels sluggish, inconsistent, and nowhere near strong enough to justify the apparent reduction in Backstab range. These values honestly feel more vibe coded than playtested.

Sword

Embark said one of the goals of this update was moving melee away from mindless M1 spam, yet Sword somehow feels even more M1 focused than before. The attack speed reduction wasn't documented, movement tech has largely disappeared, and many of the weapon's familiar breakpoints no longer exist.

Two primaries into Quick Melee now leave a Medium alive at 5 HP while simultaneously pushing them further away from you. There isn't even a satisfying combo route into Lights anymore, and missing a single precision hit against a Medium immediately throws your combo out the window. I completely agree with the idea of raising the skill ceiling, but these changes don't actually make Sword more skill expressive. They simply make it feel less rewarding.

Riot Shield

Riot Shield honestly confuses me the most. The entire point of introducing precision attacks was supposedly to reward accurate hits, yet landing three clean precision swings still doesn't kill a Medium. Instead of improving the weapon's payoff, it feels like it lost its old breakpoints while becoming significantly harder to use effectively.

The new shield bash is an interesting mechanic, but it also knocks enemies away from you. As a Riot Shield player, why would you ever want to create distance between yourself and the person you're trying to hit? It feels like a mechanic that works against the weapon's own gameplay loop.

Dual Blades

The reduction from 90% to 80% projectile mitigation sounds small on paper, but in practice it's enormous. You're effectively taking double the chip damage while deflecting, which makes sustained fights noticeably worse than before.

The new cross attack also feels awkward because the melee lunge happens immediately when you press the button rather than closer to the moment the attack actually connects. That gives enemies an incredibly easy opportunity to simply kick or punch you away before your attack can land. I understand that's technically how the new system works, but from a gameplay perspective it just isn't satisfying.

Spear

I genuinely don't know what happened here. One of my closest friends has over 25,000 Spear kills and outright quit after trying this patch. After playing the weapon myself, I honestly understand why.

Almost every important breakpoint the weapon had is gone. Two primaries leave Lights alive at 2 HP, Spin → Primary dropped from 170 to 149 damage, the first sweep was removed entirely, and the lunge was reduced from roughly 7.5m to 5m. Meanwhile every downside remained exactly the same.

You still heavily slow yourself while spinning. You still can't sprint. You still can't slide. The first Spin now commits you to roughly 0.8 seconds for only 75 damage, and two Spins take 1.55 seconds to deal only 175 damage. If stamina and precision are supposed to reward commitment, then where exactly is Spear's reward? Right now it feels like the weapon kept every drawback while losing the damage that made those drawbacks worthwhile.

Overall

I understand what Embark is trying to achieve with this update, and I honestly think the direction is good. Stamina has potential, precision attacks have potential, melee lunge has potential, and moving melee away from pure M1 spam is a goal I completely agree with.

The problem is that almost every melee weapon now requires precision hits just to reach something close to its previous effectiveness, while simultaneously losing consistency, movement options or important breakpoints. Many of the new mechanics sound great in theory, but after spending over a dozen hours actually playing them in Cashout, they simply don't feel rewarding enough to justify everything that was taken away.

More than anything else, I want another balance pass and better transparency. If attack speeds, hit sweeps, attack ranges or other core mechanics are being changed, they need to be in the patch notes. These are exactly the kinds of changes melee players notice immediately, and they're also the kinds of changes that fundamentally determine whether a weapon feels responsive or frustrating to use.

Right now, this doesn't feel like a melee rework. It feels like a melee nerf disguised as one.

After roughly 6 hours of playing the new Dagger, my first impression has gone from "this is mostly fine" to:

What the fuck is this random shadow nerf?

The actual Backstab hit distance seems to have been reduced by roughly 1 meter.

Yes, on paper, Dagger having close to a 3 meter stab range sounds far. But honestly, did anyone ever think the actual stab range was the frustrating part of dying to Dagger? Most of the time it looked absurd because the Dagger player dashed behind you, desync did its thing, and suddenly you got Backstabbed. It wasn't because the stab itself reached too far.

On the Dagger player's end, however, this feels absolutely awful. This exact thing happened with Sword too, seen here:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1043179217581510737/1524879806200545280/55.gif

The new melee lunge is supposed to replace that lost reach, but it simply doesn't.

It doesn't trigger while:

• falling
• sliding
• jumping
• dashing

...which are exactly the movement states Dagger constantly plays around.

Dagger is a movement weapon. You're constantly dashing, sliding, jumping, dropping from height and moving through people. If the lunge doesn't function during those movement states, it simply doesn't replace the range that was removed.

Even when it does trigger, it still fails to catch people consistently. I tested this against a Heavy simply running away, and Dagger still couldn't catch up. If a Heavy can outrun the melee lunge, what exactly is it solving?

The same issue applies to primary attacks. The primary "lunge" barely moves you, kills your momentum, and often feels more like a movement penalty than a chase tool.

Then there's the damage.

A precise hit still deals 60 damage, which was already the old baseline.

Meanwhile, glancing hits now deal only 47 damage.

So instead of rewarding precision, the weapon's default melee option simply became worse. If my Backstab fails and I'm forced to swing primary, why am I suddenly tickling people for 47 damage?

These values honestly feel vibe coded. It feels like someone looked at Dagger's stab range, shaved a meter off because "there's a lunge now," and called it a day. Except the lunge doesn't even function in the situations Dagger actually plays around. This was already the weakest weapon in the game. Why is it getting undocumented nerfs?

Immediate feedback

• Restore the old Backstab hit distance.
• Increase glancing primary 47 → 50.
• Increase precise primary 60 → 63.
• Make melee lunge actually function during Dagger's movement states.
• Remove the absurd screen shake on Backstabs. Holy shit.

Right now it feels like the weapon lost a meter of reach and got a replacement mechanic that doesn't even work where Dagger actually needs it.

This genuinely does not feel playtested.

---

Spear

What I can speak about is Spear.

One of my closest friends is a Spear main with 25,000+ Spear kills and a Level 14 Spear. She outright quit after this patch because, in her opinion, Spear has become completely unusable.

Almost every important breakpoint is gone.

• Two primaries now deal 148 damage, leaving Lights at 2 HP.
• Spin → Primary went from 170 → 149 damage.
• The first and best sweep of the primary chain was removed.

You still heavily slow yourself, can't sprint, and can't slide.

The first Spin now deals 75 damage after 0.8 seconds. Two Spins take 1.55 seconds for only 175 damage.

Meanwhile, an LH1 kills a Heavy in ~0.67 seconds, while Sledge now has a 200 damage overhead, 4–5m lunge, and multi-hit.

If stamina and precision are supposed to reward commitment, then where is Spear's reward? Keep the current Spin as the weakest baseline if you want, but make stamina Spins or precision Spins a thing and actually worth committing to.

Spear's lunge was reduced from roughly 7.5m to 5m??

Spear lost nearly every meaningful breakpoint while keeping every drawback it already had. What was the plan here?

Of course, none of us have actually played these team-ups yet, so this is purely my first impression based on the previews.

Overall, I think they look good. I just wish the enhanced versions, the ones that require the original bonding hero to actually be on your team, were a bit more ambitious and leaned further into each hero's identity.

## Spider-Man

I actually think the baseline version is completely fine.

Getting two grapple charges, with your enhanced grapple applying a Spider-Tracer that deals 45 damage, is already a solid addition to Black Cat's kit.

The enhanced version, though, is a bit underwhelming to me.

Landing both grapples on the same target rewards you with a 0.5-second stun. That's nice utility since it lets you interrupt ongoing abilities and even some ultimates, but it doesn't really change how Black Cat plays.

When I first heard Black Cat was getting a Spider-Man team-up, I immediately imagined something different.

I'd have loved if the enhanced version simply gave Felicia a single Spider-Man web swing on its own cooldown, somewhere around **18 seconds**.

Not as a replacement for her grapples. Keep the two grapple charges exactly as they are. Just give her one additional web swing on a separate cooldown, similar to how the Black Panther team-up already grants its own extra ability.

Reduce the range. Reduce the attachment distance. Reduce the momentum. I honestly wouldn't mind.

I just think it'd be incredibly fun, fit the fantasy of Black Cat and Spider-Man perfectly, and add another movement tool for players to master. Black Cat already has one of the highest skill ceilings in the game, and a single web swing would open up so many creative movement options.

## Black Panther

The Black Panther team-up is where I had a very similar thought.

The current version is an 8m AoE knockback around yourself that deals 45 damage. It'll probably create some interesting combo opportunities, but I wish the enhanced version borrowed Black Panther's signature mechanic instead.

I'd happily trade some of the damage, even lowering it to around **25**, if the AoE instead applied Vibranium Marks to everyone it hit.

Then Cat's Cradle could consume those marks and reset itself just like Black Panther's dash.

I don't think it'd be nearly as overpowered as it sounds.

Black Panther can mark enemies from range with his spear and immediately dash 20-40 meters into the backline. Black Cat can't.

She would first have to get within the 8m radius to land the AoE, already have Cat's Cradle available, then use the knockback to apply the marks before getting any dash resets. The knockback can even push enemies slightly out of dash range, meaning you'd still have to position correctly to take advantage of it.

On top of that, Black Cat's dash only deals **40 damage** compared to Black Panther's **80**, is shorter overall, and generally isn't as explosive.

The team-up itself could simply have an **18-second cooldown**. Every 18 seconds, Black Cat would get one opportunity to potentially chain a few dash resets if she successfully gets into melee, lands the AoE, applies the marks, and capitalizes on them.

Even then, we're talking about a dash that only deals 40 damage. Two Black Cat dashes are only equivalent to one Black Panther dash in raw damage, and even four chained dashes are only equivalent to two Panther dashes. Considering the amount of setup required compared to Black Panther simply marking enemies from range, I don't think that power budget is unreasonable.

## Why I Don't Think This Would Be Too Much

Before anyone says this would be overpowered, I don't really think it would be out of line with what enhanced team-ups already do.

We've already got things like Hela summoning three Death Squids, Gamma Namor, Gamma Iron Man gaining a Gamma Shield whenever he ults, and Cloak & Dagger gaining Eternal Stasis on demand for another iframe and survivability tool. On top of that, every support now sits at **275 HP**.

Compared to those, I don't think giving Black Cat a single toned-down Spider-Man web swing or a brief 5-second window every 18 seconds to chain a few 40-damage dash resets would be unreasonable.

To me, team-ups should be about temporarily borrowing a signature mechanic from your partner. That's why I think a web swing and Vibranium Mark dash resets would make these pairings much more memorable than simply adding damage or a small crowd-control effect.

Again, maybe I'll completely change my opinion once the update launches.

These are just my first impressions, but I can't help feeling the enhanced team-ups had the potential to be even more thematic by letting Black Cat temporarily borrow one of Spider-Man's or Black Panther's signature mechanics.

Curious what everyone else thinks?

I don’t want all these cheap “silly and goof skins” I only ever kitchen knife, level 13 and butterfly