u/YoungGriffVII

I’ve always been a live action or literature whump girlie. Sure, I saw a little bit of whump in shows like FMAB or Teen Titans 03, and that was great, but I didn’t seek it out. Only if I was already interested in the material for its non-whumpy merits.

I was dumb. Guys. Don’t exclude genres. Because my sister gave me one recommendation (not even knowing I’m a whump fan), and then a whump friend of mine suggested another. And I’m eating so, so good right now.

My sister’s suggestion was Alien Stage. Oh yes, sis, I’m definitely watching it for the music, and not the systemic abuse to one of the character’s in particular…

My friend’s suggestion was Banana Fish. I’m four episodes in and I think this might be the whumpiest thing I’ve seen in my entire life. Major major trigger warnings but if you like noncon whump there might not be a better source out there.

Has anyone else accidentally skipped over treasure troves?

I’ve seen a lot of complaints around the internet about show Daeron. And granted, some of that is fair—but I also think saying he’s “ruined” is going too far. He’s still a good character, and for once I actually have faith in the show to keep him that way.

Expectation
There was one big worry with Daeron before he showed up (besides the question of “will he appear at all” since clearly the answer to that was yes). That just like C&H have demonized other Greens in every place possible, they would make Daeron the worst he could be too. Combined with the omission of Maelor, many people feared he would be made a sadistic war criminal, burning Bitterbridge for the sport of it. Or that he would be made a sex offender to draw parallels with Aegon II and (Lannister) Joffrey.

Reality
Instead, we almost got the opposite. Instead of Daeron being too cruel, the complaint is that he’s too passive. An abused child with no hint of his “Daring” moniker, who exists only to make Ormund look bad.

…Except… is that really the case? For one, I think it’s likely we see Daeron take a stand up after Ormund’s death. And even if he doesn’t, there are moments that showcase who he is anyway. There are times when he speaks his mind to Ormund (often regretting it after, but that’s more on Ormund’s reactions than on Daeron not being willing to voice it in the first place). There’s also him sending the servant boy out of the room before Ormund’s outburst, which again, is not what someone meek would do as it risks Ormund’s reaction.

Then there’s him saying Rhaenyra can keep her throne and he could tell his men to surrender. This isn’t nearly as bad as people are saying either. From Daeron’s perspective, he’s basically doomed. This is pre-betrayal, pre-Aegon and Sunfyre return. Aemond is MIA. What is Daeron supposed to do with one adolescent dragon against Rhaenyra’s (let me count…) SIX! All Daeron is saying is that he doesn’t care about the throne enough to die senselessly for it. He didn’t start this war, and is loyal to his brother, but I’m not even sure if Daeron knows Aegon is still alive. He’s not helping him at Tumbleton in any case, leaving Daeron alone. And even surrender would still get everyone killed, so Daeron drops the talk of it.

But it’s still not book Daeron!
Is anyone their book version in this show? Especially on the Greens? Not Alicent, not Helaena, not Aemond, not Aegon. Think about the Daeron we were afraid we’d get. This is far less of an assassination than making him ontologically evil. At this point, the show being as different as it is, I think one has to take them as two different things. And I’m not going to claim show Daeron is as good as or better than book Daeron. But I will say he’s not really that awful of a character, especially if not comparing him to a book version that we were never going to get.

But do the changes even have a point?
I hope so! By establishing Daeron as willing to let Rhaenyra remain on the throne if he cannot reasonably combat her, it gives him a reason to fake his death before Aegon is crowned. In fact, his conversation with Gwayne last episode seems very geared towards setting up his survival. Of course I can’t say for sure it would happen… but it lines up with his canon body never being found, and equals out Laenor also faking his death (with the bonus of Tessarion not claiming another rider to prove he’s dead). This would also mean show-based Blacks fans can’t definitively claim the Greens bloodline ended—another plus.

The Blacks Exodus
Recently there have been more and more people changing from team Black to team Green, and this is for a lot of reasons. I’m not going to claim Daeron is chief among them. But I will say that showing one of the Green brothers to be a not-awful person, in fact one worthy of sympathy, could definitely be a factor in some people’s decisions. Another male Green besides Gwayne without any of the talking points most TBs don’t like.

Conclusion
It’s okay if you still don’t like him. But I do, and I’m going to keep liking him. He’s not ruined, just not exactly his book self, and I can’t wait to see what happens in the show with him next.

We might disagree with them a little—or a lot—but I know I personally don’t share the same disdain for every member of the Greens. So I want to ask—who is your favorite character from that side?

Whether that’s because you actually like them, pity them, or are just enjoying their downfall doesn’t matter. Just whoever is your “favorite.” (I also only got 6 options, so apologies if I did leave off your fave. I went based on who I’ve seen talked about positively here. Feel free to choose “someone else” if you can’t stand any of them.)

View Poll

You know, the one with the TV and couch and kitchen in the background where like 20% of any given episode probably takes place.

I’m blanking on what to call it. Please help; I’m writing a fanfic (which needs to be done by tomorrow)! I’ll delete this thread soon 😅

Currently living only, because I only have six slots as it is!

View Poll

Apologies to those who primarily play in Essos, but I only had six options to work with! Just pick your favorite of these.

Because I had to combine several of these into one, feel free to clarify which is your top favorite in the comments!

View Poll

It’s no secret that some characters are extremely polarizing. Many Rhaenyra fans hate Aegon, many Aegon fans hate Rhaenyra. But… what about the characters both sides can agree on? I’ve put together a list of those that I’ve found nobody really hates. (And I’m someone who started off Black, shifted to Green, and now find myself in the middle, so I’ve been in both subreddits and think I can be impartial on the matter.) I’ve ranked them from (imo) least surprising to most surprising that they aren’t disliked by a large portion of fans.

(Also, this is just generally what I have found most people agree on. If you individually hate one or more of these characters, then clearly the view isn’t universal. But I do believe it to be the majority opinion.)

The characters that both sides like are:

The Babies
Jaehaera and Jaehaerys, Aegon III and Viserys II. These kids haven’t done anything wrong because they are too young to even get speaking roles. Most Blacks don’t rejoice in Jaehaerys’ death and many would like to see Jaehaera live to be queen. Most Greens have no issue with or even like the kings Aegon and Viserys turned out to be. The fact people can agree babies are innocent is unsurprising.

Most Dragons, and Other Non-Humans
I’ve seen a lot of people say that they felt worse for the dragon than its rider (like Arrax or Dreamfyre), or that they loved the various cats or dogs that featured in an episode. And who wouldn’t? Once again, innocent babies. Just fluffier (or fierier) this time.

Simon Strong
This is more “I haven’t seen a single bad word about him from one side” than “there is active praise about him from both sides,” but I think it still counts. He was funny and didn’t commit any wrongdoing against anybody, so it does make sense.

Erryk and Arryk
Brothers who each were torn to a different side, reluctantly killing each other in the belief they were doing their duty. Nobody seems to support one of them over the other, nor demonize them as a whole. No matter which side someone supports, one of the brothers is on it, and he’ll be fighting his brother whom he loves—which I think garners respect to most people.

Alys Rivers
She mostly makes it onto this list for being a sort of third party. Both Daemon and Aemond have interacted with her, and it seems her loyalty is very much to Harrenhal above all else. She also gets bonus points for being the only character my dad has audibly gone “she’s cool, isn’t she?” for.

Daeron Targaryen
Young, kinder than his brothers, manipulated into a position he doesn’t like but is being molded into. Greens like him for being one of them (and a standout at that; Tessarion carried the Greens through the Reach and Daeron himself is neither cruel nor weak), while many Blacks already seem to pity him and wish his circumstances were different.

Jacaerys Velaryon
I can’t tell you how many Greens have said Jace is their favorite on the Blacks. Sure, sometimes there are jokes about him being Strong, but it’s not something he can control and most people recognize that. Even in the show he’s a strong (no pun intended), intelligent character whose death was mourned by both sides.

Gwayne Hightower
This is the most surprising one to me, but I haven’t seen much hate from the Blacks to Ser Gwayne! Perhaps it’s because he does seem to be honorable and fairly good, his scenes are interesting, or it’s just well-acted by Freddie Fox, but I’m definitely all for it. He’s a great character, and I hope he either dies honorably or survives—I’d be fine with both.

That’s my take, though! What are your thoughts?

It’s no secret that some characters are extremely polarizing. Many Rhaenyra fans hate Aegon, many Aegon fans hate Rhaenyra. But… what about the characters both sides can agree on? I’ve put together a list of those that I’ve found nobody really hates. (And I’m someone who started off Black, shifted to Green, and now find myself in the middle, so I’ve been in both subreddits and think I can be impartial on the matter.) I’ve ranked them from (imo) least surprising to most surprising that they aren’t disliked by a large portion of fans.

(Also, this is just generally what I have found most people agree on. If you individually hate one or more of these characters, then clearly the view isn’t universal. But I do believe it to be the majority opinion.)

The characters that both sides like are:

The Babies
Jaehaera and Jaehaerys, Aegon III and Viserys II. These kids haven’t done anything wrong because they are too young to even get speaking roles. Most Blacks don’t rejoice in Jaehaerys’ death and many would like to see Jaehaera live to be queen. Most Greens have no issue with or even like the kings Aegon and Viserys turned out to be. The fact people can agree babies are innocent is unsurprising.

Most Dragons, and Other Non-Humans
I’ve seen a lot of people say that they felt worse for the dragon than its rider (like Arrax or Dreamfyre), or that they loved the various cats or dogs that featured in an episode. And who wouldn’t? Once again, innocent babies. Just fluffier (or fierier) this time.

Simon Strong
This is more “I haven’t seen a single bad word about him from one side” than “there is active praise about him from both sides,” but I think it still counts. He was funny and didn’t commit any wrongdoing against anybody, so it does make sense.

Erryk and Arryk
Brothers who each were torn to a different side, reluctantly killing each other in the belief they were doing their duty. Nobody seems to support one of them over the other, nor demonize them as a whole. No matter which side someone supports, one of the brothers is on it, and he’ll be fighting his brother whom he loves—which I think garners respect to most people.

Alys Rivers
She mostly makes it onto this list for being a sort of third party. Both Daemon and Aemond have interacted with her, and it seems her loyalty is very much to Harrenhal above all else. She also gets bonus points for being the only character my dad has audibly gone “she’s cool, isn’t she?” for.

Daeron Targaryen
Young, kinder than his brothers, manipulated into a position he doesn’t like but is being molded into. Greens like him for being one of them (and a standout at that; Tessarion carried the Greens through the Reach and Daeron himself is neither cruel nor weak), while many Blacks already seem to pity him and wish his circumstances were different.

Jacaerys Velaryon
I can’t tell you how many Greens have said Jace is their favorite on the Blacks. Sure, sometimes there are jokes about him being Strong, but it’s not something he can control and most people recognize that. Even in the show he’s a strong (no pun intended), intelligent character whose death was mourned by both sides.

Gwayne Hightower
This is the most surprising one to me, but I haven’t seen much hate from the Blacks to Ser Gwayne! Perhaps it’s because he does seem to be honorable and fairly good, his scenes are interesting, or it’s just well-acted by Freddie Fox, but I’m definitely all for it. He’s a great character, and I hope he either dies honorably or survives—I’d be fine with both.

That’s my take, though! What are your thoughts?

It’s no secret that some characters are extremely polarizing. Many Rhaenyra fans hate Aegon, many Aegon fans hate Rhaenyra. But… what about the characters both sides can agree on? I’ve put together a list of those that I’ve found nobody really hates. (And I’m someone who started off Black, shifted to Green, and now find myself in the middle, so I’ve been in both subreddits and think I can be impartial on the matter.) I’ve ranked them from (imo) least surprising to most surprising that they aren’t disliked by a large portion of fans.

(Also, this is just generally what I have found most people agree on. If you individually hate one or more of these characters, then clearly the view isn’t universal. But I do believe it to be the majority opinion.)

The characters that both sides like are:

The Babies
Jaehaera and Jaehaerys, Aegon III and Viserys II. These kids haven’t done anything wrong because they are too young to even get speaking roles. Most Blacks don’t rejoice in Jaehaerys’ death and many would like to see Jaehaera live to be queen. Most Greens have no issue with or even like the kings Aegon and Viserys turned out to be. The fact people can agree babies are innocent is unsurprising.

Most Dragons, and Other Non-Humans
I’ve seen a lot of people say that they felt worse for the dragon than its rider (like Arrax or Dreamfyre), or that they loved the various cats or dogs that featured in an episode. And who wouldn’t? Once again, innocent babies. Just fluffier (or fierier) this time.

Simon Strong
This is more “I haven’t seen a single bad word about him from one side” than “there is active praise about him from both sides,” but I think it still counts. He was funny and didn’t commit any wrongdoing against anybody, so it does make sense.

Erryk and Arryk
Brothers who each were torn to a different side, reluctantly killing each other in the belief they were doing their duty. Nobody seems to support one of them over the other, nor demonize them as a whole. No matter which side someone supports, one of the brothers is on it, and he’ll be fighting his brother whom he loves—which I think garners respect to most people.

Alys Rivers
She mostly makes it onto this list for being a sort of third party. Both Daemon and Aemond have interacted with her, and it seems her loyalty is very much to Harrenhal above all else. She also gets bonus points for being the only character my dad has audibly gone “she’s cool, isn’t she?” for.

Daeron Targaryen
Young, kinder than his brothers, manipulated into a position he doesn’t like but is being molded into. Greens like him for being one of them (and a standout at that; Tessarion carried the Greens through the Reach and Daeron himself is neither cruel nor weak), while many Blacks already seem to pity him and wish his circumstances were different.

Jacaerys Velaryon
I can’t tell you how many Greens have said Jace is their favorite on the Blacks. Sure, sometimes there are jokes about him being Strong, but it’s not something he can control and most people recognize that. Even in the show he’s a strong (no pun intended), intelligent character whose death was mourned by both sides.

Gwayne Hightower
This is the most surprising one to me, but I haven’t seen much hate from the Blacks to Ser Gwayne! Perhaps it’s because he does seem to be honorable and fairly good, his scenes are interesting, or it’s just well-acted by Freddie Fox, but I’m definitely all for it. He’s a great character, and I hope he either dies honorably or survives—I’d be fine with both.

That’s my take, though! What are your thoughts?

Gwayne Hightower is a character I very much love, but as a book reader, I have no idea what they’re going to do with him, and that scares me. (Mostly because I don’t want to get my hopes up.)

First of all, he can’t die the same way as book Gwayne, for the simple fact that book Gwayne is already dead. Then there’s the option of “we want to develop his relationship with Cole and for them each to have a named screen partner, so he can go and die with Cole.” But now Gwayne has left that suicide charge as well—which eliminates the simplest way to kill him off.

So then… what’s the plan? The way I see it, there are four outcomes here:

1. Gwayne is still going to die with Cole—either he will change his mind and go back to rejoin their forces, or he will be unable to escape before the rivermen slaughter the troops. I do think this is the least likely, but I wouldn’t put it past the writers.
2. Gwayne has been combined with Bryndon Hightower. This means he will make it to Tumbleton before dying, in a valiant (failed) attempt to protect Ormund. The show might change this to a successful attempt to protect Daeron, considering characterizations. Considering Bryndon is also a cousin of Ormund’s, I think this might be the most likely.
3. Gwayne has been combined with Hobert Hightower. This would make him one of the Caltrops, and murder-suicide Ulf. I don’t think this is particularly likely since Hobert was a lot older, more pathetic, and not a fighter, but it’s possible the only thing of Hobert’s they adapted was the death.
4. Gwayne has been combined with Garmund Hightower. This means he would survive the war, and eventually marry Rhaena. I hope this one is the case as it gives him the best ending, but I’m not too hopeful.

I’d love to hear your guys’ thoughts though! What do you think is the most likely ending for him? Was there an option I missed?

Context: I’m working on a crossover fanfic between DC and LOTR, and one aspect of that is the hobbits being brought over into Gotham. And with several Green Lanterns ending up in Middle Earth, one is issued to one of the newcomers in the meantime. I think with the determination Frodo and Sam both show, it’s only natural it would go to one of them. I just can’t pick which.

If you’re not familiar, Frodo and Sam are on a quest to destroy the One Ring, which is intrinsically evil and carries within it its own dark will. This corrupts and influences everyone it’s near, and the Ring is trying to get back to Sauron, its evil master. It is incredibly hard to intentionally destroy, and is addictive to those who carry it. Hobbits happen to be naturally resistant as a species, but even Frodo—the one who carries it to be destroyed—cannot throw it in the volcano at the end on his own. He did, however, bring it right to the edge, along with his best friend and gardener Sam.

So when deciding who to give a GL ring to, it’s between Frodo and Sam, to me. Frodo: resisted the ring for decades before his quest, volunteered to carry it further, overcame extreme fear to do so, had to make difficult choices, and had to combat the strongest influence of the ring more than anyone. The only thing against him was that he could not destroy it in the end—but one could argue if such a thing is possible by any human will.

Sam: accompanied Frodo through everything, showing complete loyalty, faced the same fears, and—when having the ring—resisted its temptations and was easily able to give it up and return it to Frodo. However, he didn’t have to bear the burden of leadership, nor did he face as much influence from the ring as Frodo did (for example, it’s very possible he also would not have been able to destroy it if the ring were in his hands—we don’t know. But we also don’t know if he could have.)

I can only give the Green Lantern ring to one of them. Who would you say is more deserving?

(Bonus: Should Faramir also get one? Not gonna explain the lore on this, but iykyk)