I'm at a little mini ball that's actually quite tough, so I would like to change my jade to something more appropriate for, since I did not expect to be getting into an area where chasing Jade would be impossible.

As you might remember: root nodes simply do not exist in this area. So I would have thought they would have made an exception for this area, but I just can't find a place that will let me change it!

Given how this game recommends you change jade if you're having trouble, it's hard to believe they would just overlook this, but I just can't find out how to do it!

As I imagine most people probably know at this point: if after beating Orange and Green, you decide to close Kris's eyes and think about Ralsei, there will be dialog where Flowery calls him an "impossibility". This basically all but confirms he can't be an object, since there's not really much of a reason why Flowery would consider any particular object becoming a darkener and "impossibility". As someone who never really liked non-object theories, this tripped me up, but I was willing to work with it. And I even developed a non-object theory in my head a couple days ago.

But then yesterday: I remembered the scene where Ralsei failed attempt to comfort Tenna, which was something that was always hard to explain unless he was an object. And I realize that it doesn't just go away just because we have a new earth shattering revelation, because the new revelation doesn't inherently give a non object explanation for his dialog there.

We now have both a silver bullet for Object Ralsei, and a silver bullet for Non-Object Ralsei. But barring some creative, complicated mental gymnastics To come up with a candidate that can be both an object and a non-object depending upon how you think of it (which itself could actually fit Flowery's statement quite well): these can't both be true. So one or both of these dialogs must be reinterpreted to resolve the conflict. But which one is we interpreted will ultimately come down to subjective opinion.

I get most of my theories from YouTube, but I can only imagine the kind of toxic debates that have erupted on discord servers, because both sides are entirely convinced that their piece of dialog 100% confirms whether or not he's an object in their favor, with neither side acknowledging that it's actually incredibly complicated.

In general: debate around what Ralsei is has fallen victim to Forgetting different details that are quite important to narrowing it down. So I figured: A canonical list of evidence that any Ralsei theory must account for. This post is my attempt at at least starting the development of one, by giving my own proposals. I am willing to expand upon them if any suggestions are given, but we're going to start with everything I can think of.

The Criteria

1. Explain why Ralsei was alone his "entire life" (however that would be defined).
2. Explain his many similarities to Asriel.
3. Explain why he seemingly related to Tenna. Potential meanings of this can include, but are not limited to:
   • He was lying, and this dialog actually means nothing. (Very, very stupid.)
   • He is an object like Tenna, which used to have a purpose outside of the prophecy.
   • He used to have some purpose that he tried his best to fulfill, but has now somehow lost it.
   • He always wanted to have a purpose, but never got one.
4. Has to be something Flowery would consider an "impossibility". Interpretations of what that can be include, but are not limited to:
   • Flowery it doesn't actually know anything about what Ralsei is and/or is lying, and his comment doesn't actually mean anything. (Goes against Ralsei's reaction, and is very very stupid.)
   • He is not a physical object.
   • He is an object that would not normally turn into a darkener. (Such as an article of clothing, or a piece of a lightener.)
   • The form he takes significantly deviates from how our object would normally be transformed into a darkener. (Such as being heavily based on a specific lightener.)
   • Is simply referring to the many other mysteries about him. (Such as why he knows what he knows, or why he doesn't turn to stone in any dark worlds, seemingly.)
   • Him being trans, which is for some reason even more exceptionally rare in darkeners then in lighteners. (This is the same scene where he calls him "princess".)
5. Needs to be "non-arbitrary" in regards to other dark world residents, which can include, but is not limited to:
   • Explaining why we don't see other darkeners like him yet.
   • Explaining why we have actually seen darkeners like him in the past, but we just didn't know they were connected.
   • Be something that there is only one of, with no similar counterparts.
6. He needs to be something he himself would consider "not real". (As per his exposition dump at the beginning of chapter 3.)

I feel like criteria 5 needs some elaboration that wouldn't necessarily fit into the bullet point format: it's mostly therefore non-object theories, but still technically applies to object theories. It's basically that you can't just throw out a possibility for what Ralsei could be without it being something we either already have debatably seen, or that we would have good reason to not see more of at this point. For instance: if he is the embodiment of "hope" itself, Then we should expect to see embodiments of other emotional concepts of similar strength, nature, and/or importance, such as despair, love, hatred, friendship, Et cetera. If he is the embodiment of a fictional character: then there needs to be an explanation for why we seemingly don't see other fictional characters appear in dark worlds. And if he's an incredibly small particle: then there needs to be an explanation for why we don't see a bajillion of them in every dark world.

You can't just ignore other things of a similar nature to what you propose he is, and say it "doesn't matter". Because to maintain immersion: the rules of the universe must at least be consistent enough that things you would expect to happen don't just not happen for no reason. The exception to the rule has to itself be a rule, because otherwise it would just be unsatisfying. I honestly don't even care if you invoke Gaster, because at least you're then trying to explain why he would be an exception, without just saying he "just is".

I chose this set of criteria because, in my opinion: they're non negotiable. I can't exactly stop you from considering possibilities that don't satisfy any or all of the criteria. But if you can't explain all of them: then I definitely don't have any reason to consider your theory. This criteria are that important to me.

Which brings me to something: yes, I've seen Cammy's video on why he can't be an object. but frankly speaking: I don't find his arguments on why he can't be an object at all to be convincing (even if his points regarding what specific types of objects he cannot be are still good). I don't want to blot this post with negativity towards a specific video, but know that I have my reasons to disregard his points, which I am willing to elaborate on, if you ask.

I intentionally excluded Explaining why he can go between dark worlds, and why he knows what he knows are intentionally excluded from the list. I was even going to have explaining how, why, and in what sense he is a "prince" as a criteria, before realizing it ultimately goes against the point of the list. The point is that this is not meant to be a criteria for a universal theory of Ralsei, I don't think forcing people to make one actually does any good. This is meant to be specifically what Ralsei is, and other questions can be answered after or independently of it. So I would like for more people to talk about Why he's a "prince", because it's honestly very weird if you think about it, I am willing to compromise on it, and save that the paid for later if you can't tie that mystery in.

For context: I am currently on story mode with the amount of damage given being set to a hundred percent, and the amount of damage received being set to 60%. This is because while I do love the story, art, and platforming of this game, I unfortunately did not find the combat to be verily satisfying. But this boss fight was a pleasant exception!

It was very fun to dodge the enemy's attacks. And the attacks I could parry felt balanced. I find that there are a lot of instances Why miss a parry, but it felt like I got the timing perfect, but this boss did it feel like that. It felt like if I got hit: it was generally my fault.

The second phase of the occasional extra laser who did occasionally lead to situations where it felt like the damage was unavoidable, but that was generally the exception, not the rule. I especially liked the attack where the claw jumps over Yi before doing the charge proper, It kept me on my toes! And I felt like the third laser in the second phase gave some of the moves an extra bit of depth without feeling unfair. It really felt like an Undertale/Deltarune boss fight, And I mean that in a very good way!

I'm making this because I've been largely negative on the sub, But the people of it have been largely kind and considerate. But unfortunately most of the positive things I had to say about the game weren't really something really something I feel like I could make a post about. So when I actually enjoyed this fight, I felt like I had to make a mini review of it!

Please no spoilers for anything beyond this boss fight. This is my first playthrough.

I recently had the idea to make this post, but then dropped it when I realized chapter 5 was around the corner, but I was listening to a 4 hour long video about chapter 5 predictions in which this came up. So screw it: I'm just going to say what my problems with this theory is a day before an eater gets confirmed or denied.

I'm assuming the theory needs no introductions. But just in case there's confusion on the name: I'm talking about the theory that Ralsei Is the red devil horned headband they had when they were a kid. If you want to know more: I'm sure looking it up on Reddit, Google, or YouTube will get you more than enough results that will let you learn more about it. Only the basic idea is necessary, and I'll assume you know at least that.

This theory has existed ever since soon after chapter 1 released, and I honestly just never vibe with it. I didn't have a specific reason why I didn't think it was a good theory, It just didn't pass the smell check for me. My opinion of it went up either shortly before chapters 3 & 4 were announced, or after I watched the first post 3 & 4 Deltarune compilation by L Void did I start to think it was more likely. I never thought it was a great theory, but just good, and not even especially so. Just sort of good enough. But then I watched Andrew Cunningham's stream of chapter 3 where it was brought to his attention that the antlion could be the horn headband, and then it turns out those good reason to assume it could be Eram, and at that point the theory died all over again, because there were two candidates for that particular object that just made more sense than Ralsei.

But again: I didn't know exactly why I thought it was so much weaker a possibility, it just didn't feel right. I was honestly shocked that Andrew was so disappointed in the theory being potentially deconfirmed, because we always seem to be on the same wavelength in terms of being more logically and thematically focused, and my investment in the theory never went above "OK, sure".

It wasn't until I was around half of the way through writing my own theory on the topic did I realize why it bothered me so much: it just doesn't make any sense with what we know of Kris.

In my opinion: the biggest evidence disproving the theory is simply the personalities of Kris and Ralsei.

The logic with the theory is that Ralsei is in some way an idealized version of Kris. That their desire to be a "real" member of the Dreemurr family essentially got absorbed (for lack of a better term) into the headband, and that's why he looks like Asriel: because that was the easiest thing to imagine when imagining themselves as a goat. But if that's the case: why doesn't he take on more personality traits of young Kris?

Even if we assume there were always envious of Asriel (which they would have good reason to, but there's no direct evidence indicating that they are), or at least looked up to them as a role model: there's still no reason why that idealized solve would essentially just be a carbon copy of him, or at least what we expect him to be like. We should at least expect some personality traits from young Kris to be evident in Ralsei, but I honestly can't think of a single personality trait he has that Kris also exhibits at any point in the known timeline, aside from being quiet, I suppose. but even that one trade is clearly being manifested in vastly different ways in the two characters, to the point where they're debatably not even the same character trait. (Kris's stoicism versus Ralsei's shyness and/or conflict aversion.)

Not only that: but there are also notable absences. One of the things emphasized the most about Kris's past is the fact that they used to play pranks Noelle. It's one of the things emphasize about them the most, And is implied to be something Noelle's nostalgic for. But it's honestly hard to imagine Ralsei pulling a prank on anyone for any reason. Someone suggested that the pranks could be impulsive, but one of them is literally them hiding underneath Noelle's bed, so unless that wasn't intended as a prank, and was instead some other misunderstanding (which honestly feels like a stretch): it's hard to believe that the pranks were impulsive.

And then there's the fact that Rudy, Noelle, and Toriel all expect Kris to sing swears if they ever went caroling. And while that's modern Kris, it's hard to imagine a less mature Kris wouldn't do the same thing. Meanwhile: Ralsei refuses to say any swears at all. The three's characterization of Kris also could be wrong, but there's no real reason to assume that.

Not to mention the fact that Tenna implies that Kris looked up Dess, mentioning how they thought she was "cool", so we should also expect Ralsei to have some elements of Dess in his personality. While Tenna could just be misremembering it, his word is still more of Kris idolizing Dess then the evidence we have of them idolizing or being jealous of Asriel. And yet: nothing we know about Dess lines up with anything we know about Ralsei.

There's also the fact that Ralsei expresses that he never really understood what friendship was like until meeting Kris and Susie in chapter two. But if he's been on Kris's head for literal months, then he would at least have experience with there's there's and Noelle's friendship, and that friendship literally involved one prank in the other. So why would he think friendship was just "being happy together"?

Everything I brought up so far could be wrong, I'm not denying that. But the fact we even have to come up with reasons to explain why these personality traits that Kris seems to have had at least at some point never actually existed is a challenge to the theory. And honestly: The picture it would get of Kris is just far less interesting then what ignoring this theory and justice interpreting The information would indicate.

in the comments of my theory on what Ralsei is mentioned earlier: someone instead proposed that he just represents Kris's desire to be a "real" part of the family, and he has nothing to do with Kris's "ideal self". But that makes the theory even worse: because then we would expect Ralsei to essentially just be a carbon copy of young Kris personality wise, and only look like Asriel. But as anyone who's actually played the game can remember: Ralsei is basically nothing like Kris at any point in time. So everything I mentioned is even worse. (This point I'm bringing up was probably specifically in response to why he has no personality aspects of Dess, but it doesn't change the fact that it's just a worse version of the theory.)

And even aside from the personality stuff: Ralsei Is also bald, while Kris clearly has hair, and the silhouette in Tenna flashback would seem to indicate they also had hair when they were young. Asgore, their foster father, clearly has hair, so it's not like the concept of an anthropomorphic goat having hair would be particularly weird to them. So if Ralsei is in some way a part of Kris: why doesn't he have hair?

And why does Ralsei go by he/him pronouns while Kris goes by they/them pronouns? I guess it's not impossible that they used to go by he/him pronouns in the past, there's nothing directly confirming that. (And there's a Spamton Sweepstakes page were Kris before Dess disappears is going by they/them pronouns, which implies they went by those pronouns when they were young. And while Toby said only the game itself is canon, it would still be weird for him to hide this is detailed by leveraging non canonicity If it was meant to be true that Kris used to go by he/him pronouns.) And the Princess Ribbon has gloves that only fit Kris, which could imply thet that ribbon used to belong to them when they were young. So if anything: it would be more likely they went by she/her pronouns in the past then he/him Pronouns. (Some people also think Ic"e"s Pizza Spray for the Boyz was bought Kris, but speculated that Asriel was the one who smelled like pizza, and her reaction to Kris's response seems to imply she wasn't off. And Asriel's friend, Pizza Pants works for Ic"e"s, so it makes more sense that it used to belong to Asriel, rather than Kris.)

Ultimately: I think about it from the perspective of Toby Fox. Imagine you were him, and you're writing chapter 1, and are making plans for all future chapters. You decide that part of the main cast, and the darkener of the party will be a devil horned headband Kris's parents bought for them to make them feel less bad about not being the same species as them. And this darkener will in some way reflect the personality of Kris when they were a child, and will tie into their past trauma. What personality do you give this darkener?

There are many different valid answers, but as someone who has read ten stories in the past: he probably wouldn't come up with an overly convoluted set of logic for literally no reason. The answer he would come to would probably be primarily focused on what aspects of young Kris would seep into it. And whether it be a carbon copy of young Kris, how young Kris perceived themselves, what young Kris always wanted to be like, or anything else in between, this darkener would say something about Kris, because saying something about Kris is literally the point. And there's no reason to do as much of that with the character as possible. But none of those possibilities create Ralsei, not in my mind.

that doesn't mean there isn't internally consistent logic that allows you to justify how Ralsei came from Kris. But the only reason I can see for Toby employing such logic is if:

1. He needed a darkener whose personality was essentially just everything we expected Asriel to be like, who's a part of the party
2. He really needed some object from Kris's childhood (as in: the headband) to be a darkener, who's also a part of the party.
3. He can't have two darkeners as part of the party, for some reason, for some reason.

As you can tell: that is at least three different criteria (five if you separate 1 and 2 into two different criteria) that Toby would for some reason feel the need to fill. Just having a dark who is basically just as real head cannons, isn't enough, because I thought of a better way to incorporate that into the story than headband theory suggests. And this isn't my story, but Toby's, (who's probably a better writer than me anyway,) so if I'm wrong: then the real answer would probably be even better!

So he must also for some reason need the headband to be a darkener (which would probably even be why it exists in this hypothetical). But even then: he could always just have two darkeners who are part of the party, if he desperately needs both. (I even came up with an OC inspired by headband theory, that is essentially what I would imagine a headband darkener would actually be like, that I want to work on as soon as I'm done with a very long comic I've still barely started.) While it may be hard to imagine how that would even work, but that's only because the entirety of the story so far assumes only one darkener in the party. If we instead had two from the start: then he would simply write the story as though that was the case, and he would simply write an entirely different story from what we have now.

So there would then need to be some reason why having two darkeners in the party is problematic, and so would feel the need to consolidate them.

What would the reason for any of these three criteria be? I have no clue! That's why I don't believe this theory! But for some reason Toby really needs to fulfill all these criteria, or the story just would it work, Then I trust he would pick the best way to do what he can.

But at this point: I actually hope headband theory is wrong. If I never thought that deeply about the theory until chapter 5 released, and I was exposed to that twist: Then I would be like "oh, they were right! Heck yeah!" But then I would note that the video essays rolling in about how this is a bad idea actually, which I would have a negative reaction to the mere thumbnails of, because I like this game I wanna like it more. But in the back of my mind I would be like: "yeah, they probably have a point" and reluctantly get around to watching them. And eventually become disillusioned with the twist.

But now that I actually thought deeply about Ralsei's character, and what object he could be: I would now skip all of that straight to the disappointment. It would feel like those badly ridden twist villains, were the character you grew fond of turned out to secretly never actually exist, and they were actually this other character that's just far less interesting. We would pretty much have to overturn everything we knew about Kris to fit it into the narrative. And for what? To establish they wish they were a monster, again? To establish they might be a little bit jelly of Asriel?

the whole point of the theory is that it would give us more insight into Kris as a character, which was definitely needed back in chapter 1. But now that we have four chapters: Kris doesn't need it. They're already probably the most interesting character at this point, we don't need to risk undermining that just to explore it in this other way that hasn't really been tapped at all up to this point.

Most of Ralsei's connections to Kris or through Asriel anyway, so why assume Asriel Is a middle man? Why not just explore that instead? He is only becoming more important, after all. (Though we only have 15 more hours to explore this as of writing this anyway, so whatever.)

Special thanks to Biochao for making the funny Pokémon circle render I am using for this half joking theory.

EDIT: I would have provided links to the images if I could, but in his chest was designing to not work while I was actually writing this post. But a few seconds after posting: you can find full size versions of these images here.

With Cap'n Now dating Clover: would it be possible that the Sweet Cap'n Cakes represent the three sides of Asriel? And since the mics were the only other significant trail of characters: I was thinking of a joke of who they could be the three sides of. But as with any good joke: I took it at least somewhat seriously, since it's funnier if there's at least some logic. And then I realized their personalities actually fit quite well with Pizza Pants. So I started unironically believing it was possible.

Now: the argument for behind Clover being representative of Dess is largely based on her being The Knight, and so her personality seeped into the card kingdom dark world. But due to at least two darkeners who are supposed to have never entered A dark world before that one was created in Chapter 3, and how in chapter 4 the Second Sanctuary enemies were statues In the First Sanctuary and vice versa, it seems likely to me that, at bare minimum, the forms of darkeners are set in stone (pun intended) before ever entering a dark world. And if that's the case: it would also make sense that the personalities are determined before entering a dark world. Lancer changes personalities anyway.

If Dess is the girl who played with Kris when they were young, then I could easily see her using a clubs card as a sort of self avatar. And the Sweet Cap'n Cakes could have been some audio equipment Asriel donated to the library.

There's really no reason why the mics would directly get personality traits from Pizza Pants, but they could be items from. Or there's no metaphysical reason, and Toby just thought it would be a good idea. If the real Mike is an object from Pizza Pants: then the personality traits could just be rubbing off onto them.

What literary reason Toby has to do this, I'm not entirely sure. It could just be to expand upon characters that would otherwise not have a lot of screen time. We already know that Pizza Pants is friends with Asriel, and Dess was already close with Asriel too, so the three could have been a sort of trio in the past. (The game does seem to have a thing for those.) That could be why Kobe thought it was important to highlight these three specific characters.

The literary reason for doing this does make it less likely. But the fact it does work oddly well for Pizza Pants, a character we actually have some personality on, does make it more credible. (Though my logic could be looser than I realize.)

If you're wondering why I labeled it "Tic-Tac-Toe Bingo": it's because I plan on writing an O for correct predictions, and an X for deconfirmed predictions. And yes: that means there will be "negative bingos". (This is probably the closest I'll ever get to playing Tic Tac Toe with Toby Fox!)

NO SPOILERS!!! GIVE AS LITTLE INFORMATION AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN!!! You know how to write something without giving minor spoilers, you can also hide particularly problematic parts by using the spoiler heighter thingy. This can be done by using A greater than sign and then an exclamation point at the beginning, and then an exclamation point followed by a lesser than sign at the end, if you cannot find the option on your platform. >!Like this!< You can look it up how to do this if my is insufficient.

The standard I laid out above I believe to be basic and self-evident, but a lot of people don't seem to get this in the replies. Thank you!

literally the only reason why I went this way was because I assumed this was the way to progress, because the other way had a turret with unperryable projectiles, and didn't seem to take any damage. So I can only assume I'm supposed to be here, and I need to somehow activate that elevator in order to progress.

And yet: I've done everything I can in the door next to the elevator, and the elevator still doesn't work.

So where are we even supposed to go at this point? I want to take a single inch away from here, because I was a pain enough getting here to begin with. So I don't want to go unless I know for an absolute fact there's no other way to progress. but I can't think of anywhere else I could possibly go, except for the turret door with the unperiable attacks, which I still remember attacking and taking no damage.

I can't figure out how to put images on the actual options themselves. But I already made all the images, so I'm forced to just link to an Image Chest album instead.

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This pole is of course assuming that Susie is either an orphan, or will be released from the custody of abusive parents at some point. Please pick "Susie is not an orphan, & her parents are perfectly fine" if you disagree with both of these assumptions.

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Anyways: I'm going to explain my reasoning for my three options:

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We already know that Susie is fond of Toriel. While her opinion of her might have soured at the end of chapter 4, it's still possible that Susie could look up to Toriel. And Sans is probably going to date Toriel, so barring him being flung into the Undertale universe somehow for some reason, he's kind of part of the package deal.

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Alphys and Undyne are quite interesting. It's already implied that Alphys maintains her crush on Undyne in this universe, so them getting together is not out of the question. And Susie has a seemingly adversary of relationship with both, but the tension is likely to dissolve. Undyne has antagonized Susie to a minor degree in the past, due to her being perceived as a "troublemaker". But she is now actively helping to save her, so that would definitely make Undyne realize she isn't so bad. And Alphys seems to be afraid of Susie, but Susie's reaction to Alphys's signature mix seems to imply that this fear is largely unfounded. So I can definitely see these three getting along in the future. Plus: all three have scales, so that's something.

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Alvin is looser, but sens Gerson kind of became Susie's mentor in chapter 4, and now misses him too, I can see the two bonding over that. I also see Alvin letting Susie write the rest of Lord of the Hammer in his stead, given the current trajectory of these characters, so him adopting her would make that even more sweet.

View Poll

Because I got really into tarot from as a non believer a lot a while back, I already knew for that the standard playing card suits we use today were derived from a French set of tarot cards, And that there were other European suits out there. And I remembered one of them had a flower.

As you can see from the example above: It is the Swiss set of suits that contains a flower, According to Encyclopedia Britannica. This same image shows that it is standard to consider the flower a variant of the heart, but I also don't know how that standard came to be (I haven't actually read the Britannica article, I am just crediting it because it's where I got the image from), and Toby might not know either, and he doesn't seem like the type to stick strictly to Traditional standards when it comes to referencing things, so he could be using the flower as substitution for diamonds instead.

I don't know why Asgore would have a Swiss set of playing cards, But maybe he just thinks the suits are pretty. They do fit his esthetics.

If this is true: then we could expect other card counterparts based on the Swiss suits.

Shields fit the vibe of Hathy.

You could do something fun with a Lancer that bell themed.

And I can see the vines of an acorn becoming the neck of Clover.

The above ideas are kind of just vibes based. So it could be other things.

So, I am not the first to notice that every party remember so far has had the health bar be the color of a soul from Undertale. But given how Toriel, Sans, and Catti all have good reasons to be in the next dark world story wise, it seems possible that a lot of Lighteners will be entering the dark world next chapter. Which caused me to wonder if each of the seven flowers is going to have a rival In someone on the fun game "side".

And the trailer has Kris on their own, facing an attack generated by the cyan, The soul of their exact health bar color. So, this is kind of significant evidence for that prediction.

While we're speculating: we already have colors for Susie, Ralsei, and Noelle. So their rivals are obvious.

Tutorial is oddly consistently associated with indigo in Undertale (and Sans even comments that she has "integrity"), so it seems likely that would be her rival. And that flower also is likely the "bluest" flower that was allegedly Miss Mizzle's disciple, which seemingly implies she won't be adversarial. So may not even be necessary a "rival" per se, but may still act as a foil or counterpart to Toriel.

Catti already has purple on her design, so the purple flower could be her rival.

EDIT: I woke up and got on my computer, only to literally just now realize I mentioned a potential rival for purple, even though Susie already covers that. I might have been a little absent minded while writing this.

Orange is associated with bravery, which seems in line with Jockington, so he could be orange.

Bradley could alternatively fill in the role of indigo because he's blue, or purple because he's associated with academics like the purple soul was, so it could be nerd versus nerd. But this seems unlikely to me.

And who the gold flower's rival would be, or whether or not they would even have one is hard to say. Since that flower would basically just be Flowey, and is also taking the place that would otherwise be filled in by red. Either the player ourselves or Asriel would make the most sense, depending upon if you interpret it as a stand in for red or a new version of Flowey.

Or Sans could be the gold flowers rival because why not.

This is all just vibe checks. But I'd be interested to hear other people expand on this.

Given that site's track record, It seems unlikely they will just forget to provide a pronoun for character, if one has been given. So I can only assume no one referred to sweet with any 3rd person pronoun yet. I've always assumed Sweet was a guy like the other two, but the lack of pronouns makes me wonder if they are instead something else.

And given how Chapter 4 has Clover now going out with Cap'n, and how one of Clover's heads is implied to be lesbian, is it possible that each member of Sweet Cap'n Cakes Will date a different head of Clover? With Sweet being revealed as a girl dating the lesbian head?

And if Clover represents the three sides of Dess, and she was dating Asriel, would that mean that Sweet Cap'n Cakes represents the three sides of Asriel? (K_K is a very sweet guy, and Pizza Pants does comment about "picking up checks" with Asriel, so maybe that's not just projection?)

So in the past couple of days the trailer came out: people have been speculating this feather is a quill pen, and is "the white pen known as hope". (Not the "white pen of hope", mind you. It is not a pen that channels hope, but it's a pen that is hope itself. At least based on the title.) This is based on dialog Gerson says in his secret boss in chapter 4. But the way he says it makes it clear it's meant to be a metaphor. Saying that the hope Susie has is strong enough to rewrite fate. So it doesn't really pass a vibe check for me. So I would like to present some alternatives I thought of.

I would like to remind people that Topy explicitly said in the newsletter that he didn't want to show the most exciting things in the trailer. But that's mostly in regards to not spoiling people, and this feather is presented without context, so it's important it's ambiguous, so you probably wouldn't think it's too big of a spoiler anyway. So that's important to keep in mind. The way it's glowing and being on a literal pedestal does make it seem like it's special in some way.

My first idea is that it might be something important to the quest. Maybe we'll have to collect some items in order to get to the final boss. Perhaps we'll need this in order to get over some obstacle. Again: with how little context we get in the trailer, it's hard to say what it could possibly be used for.

The second possibility I thought of is that it's associated with the flowers. For some reason: when I look at it my mind immediately jumped to it being part of a set, and the way it smash cuts to the recycled Omega Flowy attack made me associate the two together. So my immediate assumption was that each flower is guarding a feather, and we'll have to fight one to get each of the feathers. Perhaps they're not even all necessarily feathers, but are different items that would be thematically relevant, Based on the fallen human they're associated with in Undertale. The feather could be associated with purple because it's a pen, or indigo because of "elegance"; green could be associated with a spatula; orange could be associated with a weapon; etc. This of course could tie into the previous possibility, and later possibilities. It could be that we need These items to get to the final boss, and so the flowers are gardening it.

The forth possibility is that It's necessary to access the secret boss. That may seem to go against what Toby said, but we also literally just encounter Spamton in chapter 2 as a mandatory encounter, who gives you a hint as to how to access his secret boss battle. So it's entirely possible this feather could just be something you run across over the course of the chapter, and it's not obvious how it relates to the secret boss until you look deeper into it. The boss could be a bird, A pillow, an inkwell, or anything else associated with feathers. (Dinosaurs?) Every secret boss thus far has had some involved process to get to it (or in the case of chapter 3: has an item that makes beating it more reasonable for the average player with an involved process of obtaining), so needing to collect something to challenge it would make sense.

The fifth possibility I came up with while writing this is that instead of the shadow crystal being obtained through one secret boss, it is instead obtained through a side quest with multiple hidden bosses to obtain items necessary to get the crystal. Given how the crystals were retconned in once chapter 2 released, it would seem their importance is more an extension of the secret bosses' importance rather than something important on it's own. But Toby also thought it was important to include them retroactively anyway, and spammed his back story places more emphasis on it, so then being attainable through other ways is not off the table.

The sixth possibility is that it's just a joke, in a similar vein to the spherical artifact in Undertale. Perhaps it could still be useful, weather on its own or to obtain another item that's not as grandiose, but is nonetheless very useful, if not necessarily important. Perhaps Susie will even believe it is "the white pen of hope" if you've beaten Gerson in the previous chapter, only to be proven wrong. The point is that there will be build up to it that makes it seem special, important, and/or useful, only for it to turn out to not be what it seems.

With how little information we've gotten in the past few days, I'm kind of mostly going on vibes, and this probably isn't exhaustive. But I figured it would be good to explore explore other possibilities, instead of being disappointed that it wasn't the one, awe inspiring theory That everyone just assumed because it was cool. it could still be the white pen of hope, But I think it's good to remember it could be other possibilities instead. (Or in addition to the other possibilities, depending.)

What are your thoughts on them putting an Undertale Yellow character into the game?