r/AoSLore

I read Starseer's Ruin as my introduction to AoS and ended up with deep hatred for the lizardmen and humanity in AoS

So I think I should like the skaven, do they have any books worth reading?

Greetings and Salutations Gate Seekers and Lore Pilgrims, and welcome to yet another "No Stupid Questions" thread

Do you have something you want to discuss something or had a question, but don't want to make an entire post for it?

Then feel free to strike up the discussion or ask the question here

In this thread, you can ask anything about AoS (or even WHFB) lore, the fluff, characters, background, and other AoS things.

Community members are encouraged to be helpful and to provide sources and links that can aid new, curious, and returning Lore Pilgrims

This Thread is NOT to be used to

-Ask "What If/Who would win" scenarios.

-Strike up Tabletop discussions. However, questions regarding how something from the tabletop is handled in the lore are fine.

-Real-world politics.

-Making unhelpful statements like "just Google it"

-Asking for specific (long) excerpts or files

Remember to be kind and that everyone started out new, even you.

Ive been into AoS for years now and know the lore fairly well but I could still use someone telling me more as I paint. I used to listen to Luetin a lot in my 40K phase if it helps.

(And sorry if this question gets asked a lot here)

Grimnir in the World That Was was very opposed to Chaos. He basically spent most of his existence fighting at the Polar Gates against it and the Slayer Cult.

But things have changed somewhat. Grimnir of Age of Sigmar might not have been the same guy as he was in the Old World. And hes currently deceased (sort of).

So in regards to the Fyreslayers who occasionally work with Chaos, what would Grimnir's opinion be?

Hi everyone,

Welcome to my latest and probably last entry about „Destruction is awesome and should have more unique armies”. This time I want to give you my version of the Silent Ones, intelligent insects who appeared in the background of AoS, especially in Warhammer Underworlds. Because many fans want an insectoid faction in AoS, and many rightfully think the destruction alliance may be one of the best groups for such a faction. Because a swarm of insect monsters attacking land in a chitinous wave is a fitting image and addition to this alliance. Granted not much is known about the Silent Ones proper, beyond hibernating in the Beastgrave mountain, and having a single picture in a White Dwarf Magazine. But I am a biologist and find insects extremely fascinating. Therefore I looked at several RL examples and tried to figure out how the Silent Ones could work in Age of Sigmar as its own unique faction.

In the following paragraph I will explain certain design decisions I made based on real world insect biology and previous tropes and stereotypes. But with the precaution of not repeating clichés. Whether I succeeded in this task is for you to decide. And of course, everything I present here are just my personal, random thoughts. Thus do not take it seriously. Also any idea or concept I present here is free to be used by everyone however they like. Indeed, I would like to hear what you think of insect creatures in fantasy and the potential of Silent Ones for AoS.

In case you are interested in my previous concepts for AoS factions you can find them here: Drogrukh, Ogroids, Root Kings, human destruction faction, undead pirates, Frankenstein undead

With this out of the way, let’s begin:

1.      Overview

Silent One (WD498)

In real life insects are the most diverse group on animal life. No matter what form or what form or what kind of behaviour you can imagine, it is almost certain that there is an insect who expresses this. Or as a biologist joke goes: “I am not sure about God, but if he exists, he really must love beetles”. There is such a richness in these kinds of animals. But sadly, this is rarely if at all translated into fiction. In fantasy they are very rare and in scifi they mostly appear as “the other”. I.e. a kind of alien life so different from humanity that you can kill them by the thousands without remorse. And 11 times out of 10 these insects will be organized in a hivemind or hive caste society. With either all animals being mindless drones following a higher imperative, or the “Queens” being the higher authority guiding their fellow drones into battle. Bonus for not using regular technology but “grow” all the tech they use from biological components. See the bugs from Starship Troopers, Starcrafts Zerg, 40ks Tyranids, Rachni from Mass Effect and as an unbuilt trope the insect aliens from Enders Game. It is so common, that events where this does not occur are noteworthy. Such as the Kir’ko of Planetfall being an ex-hivemind species, as the humans in this setting broke the hivemind to turn them into slaves.

I understand why this trope is so prevalent. Many people have difficulties relating to insects due to their different shapes and small size. Much like some people trouble to relate to spiders or sea life. But personally, I am very bored by these tropes. Not only due to its repetitive nature, but also because it is just wrong for real world insects. For example: Of the myriad of wasp and bee species on our planet the vast majority life as solitary animals. Only a fraction of all species lives in hives. If biologists are talking about bees dying, we are not talking about these hive bees, but of the manifold of wild bees instead, who are much more important to the ecosystems, due to their specialization and/or distribution. Also hive insects are not hive minds or fictious hive societies. Eusocial insects are better described as anarchical collectives. Any member of a hive is an individual. And the singular decisions of thousands of individuals are the root of all the complex decisions we see the collective make. Spontaneous self-organization of countless individuals. In these systems the queens are not rulers. They are the central reproductive unit. And what authority they have is all regarded to their reproduction. In bees the main difference between a queen and a worker is the quality of food they receive. High-quality food as larvae triggers the transformation into a bee queen. Still every bee can reproduce as all workers are females and as unfertilized eggs become male drones. So, the queen is prohibiting her workers from reproducing to prioritize her own offspring. Either by using pheromones that supress this behaviour, or by manually patrolling the hive and destroying all worker eggs. And she will repress the formation of a new queen too. But if the hive grows to large, these systems do not work efficiently, and new queens pop up. Regicide is also quite common in hive insects. For example, for several bumblebee species it is common kill their queen in autumn.

But how do workers know what to do? At different stages in their life, they follow different instincts. A honeybee lives for roughly 40 days. The first days she will spend in the nursery, taking care of fellow larvae. Later she acts as a guardian of the hive, inspecting incoming bees and defending it against attackers. And in the later half she becomes a proper honeybee venturing out to collect pollen and nectar. It is just a rough breakdown of real-life hives, but it shows how different they function from how they are commonly portrayed as. Indeed, in terms of Warhammer one could argue that the skaven are the closest to real world animal hives. Albeit with more cooperation and less infighting.

As mentioned, even among bees’ hives are rare. And amongst insects especially as it only occurs in 3 families, ants, bees/wasps and termites. Instead, any other system of social behaviour you can imagine you can find in insects. Solitary animals, pair breeders, herd animals, insects that use tools and what else you can imagine. Often with amazing diversity within the same species. I tried to be influenced by all these interesting diversities, whilst also serving some familiar tropes which could be fitting for a Destruction faction and to avoiding turning them into “bugs but human”. Whether or not I succeed is for you to decide.

2.      Biology:

The Silent Ones I envision take different aspects from multiple real insects. Among them are locusts, cicadas, parasitic wasps, aphids and many more. The great idea behind this concept is that the Silent Ones are the ultimate survivors. Like cockroaches they can survive nearly any catastrophe. Ashquian firestorms, ghurish megafauna and what have you. Indeed, much like with many RL insects they focus on a booming expansion phase followed by a collapse. But what do I mean by this? And how does this fit Destruction?

First things first: Silent Ones have a unique and efficient reproductive system. Every Silent One can procreate by themselves, without a partner. All they need is a piece of meat (or equivalent) big enough to support their larvae**. Much like parasitic wasps, the Silent Ones will lay eggs into the corpse via their ovipositor, and the eggs will hatch, the larvae will feast and grow and ultimately emerge as a neophyte.** After a short amount of time, they grow into adults and can continue this cycle. Provided enough meat/corpses are available, a single Silent One can revive their species. In some realms like Ghur this is almost always a given. Elsewhere swarms of them emerge after major battles, if no one was able to remove the bodies.

L: Life cycle parasoitd wasp, R. Necrophages (Endless Legend)

In addition, the Silent Ones have a variety of body types, depending on the available food. In RL many insects can have different forms depending on the circumstances. Take aphids for example: Some aphid species can shift between two to three different stages. Stage 1: Aphids have wings and can fly and have two distinct sexes. So, they fly to a new plant and start sucking. Stage 2: Aphids lose their wings and the male sex, instead procreating pathogenetically. This way aphids can cover the entire plant with hundredths of aphids with little effort. Stage 3: When conditions get worse, aphids return to two different sexes and produce winged offspring, which fly to new plants to repeat the cycle.

Aphid phenotype shift (Utah State Uni)

The Silent Ones can do something similar. Depending on how much food is available for the larvae it can grow into one of four categories:

Category 1, called Aphids, are those Silent Ones who got the bare minimum of foot. They are diminutive beings roughly the size of goblins, short, useless wings and little intellect. They are purely instinct driven creatures, frequently hiding in caves and other holes, unless other members of their species can lure them out. Roughly speaking, a larva feasting on your average grot or skaven will become an Aphid.

Category 2, called Pterids, are roughly the size of a human being. They have two sets of wings, one large one for flight, and a smaller one whose vibrations they use for communication. Unlike the smaller aphides the mantides are proper sapient creatures able to use tools and communicate with their fellows in complex manners. They use their ability to flight to cover vast distances and to find food or hunt prey. Think of the as the AoS equivalent to the Vespid from 40k in shape and size. For a larva to become one they need roughly your average humanoid

Category 3, called Orthoids, are larger than your average human, comparable to a human on a horse. They are large, that they cannot fly anymore. Instead, they have long legs which make them excellent runners and jumpers. In addition, they have a sturdier carapace covered in spikes and long claws. This makes them true hunters, able to compete with many other predators. The Othroids are the stage shown in the White Dwarf magazine.

The last and final category 4 are the Scaroids. If a behemoth carcass is found and the larvae can feast all they want, they become these massive creatures, towering over their relatives. They are enclosed in a thick carapace, spikes and claws, being able to wrestle with other megafauna of the realms. They are two large and cumbersome to create weapons by themselves, these are provided by their smaller relatives.

Keep in mind that the only difference between these four stages is how much food was available for the larvae. A aphids offspring can become Scaroids or vice versa. This is also plannable by the parent. As a rule of thumb, if a Silent One finds the carcass of a cow it could implant a single egg, which should hatch into a Orhtoid, or several to spawn two Pterids or multiple Aphids. These different stages/bioforms also take some inspiration from 40ks Kroot, who also have an army where all the diverse monsters and critters are kroot too.

However, in addition to these four base forms, the Silent Ones can further specialize. In Mass Effect the Vorcha were an interesting species which had undifferentiated cells. This allowed the Vorcha do quickly adapt to any environment. Not enough water? Adapt to get your water from your food. A planet with too high gravity? Evolve stronger muscles. Being wounded? A harder skin. However, this adaptation was permanent and only a limited number of changes could occur, until these cells were depleted. So, if you adapted to a high-gravity world but then vent to a low gravity world, you could not switch anymore. A similar system would work great for the Silent Ones to further specialize to each of the realms and their troubles. In Ghyran they may adapt to eat even the hardest of plants, in Chamon they may adapt to filter toxic chemicals from water etc.pp.

Vorcha (Mass Effect)

The counter side to this extreme and adaptable lifestyle however is that the natural lifespan of the Silent Ones is short. No matter the category, a Silent One only lives for a dozen years tops. This is true for most insects as well. The majority of them only spends a short amount of their life in adult form. Some moths or butterflies do not have a stomach or functional mouths for example. Same for mayflies who spend years underwater, to only live for a single day. Or rhinoceros beetles, who spend up to five years or longer underground only to live for a few weeks. Now the larval stage of the silent ones is much shorter, but the overall lifespan is short. The craziest animals in this regard are certain cicadas. Some species show up after 7, 13 or other odd years. Because this way their predators cannot learn and expect them. So when thousands of cicadas suddenly arrive, everyone is overwhelmed by them.

However, the Silent Ones can live much longer if they undergo hibernation. Ladybugs and other beetles may form covens during the winter; were several animals gather to share body heat and avoid freezing to death. In this resting stage they can endure the cold months. The Silent Ones undergo a similar process. Most of their available lore focusses on the Silent Ones resting in the Beastgrave for example. Therefore, the Silent Ones are able to avoid bad seasons and conditions by hiding in deep places until conditions improve otherwise. Adding to their survivalist principles.

The final keystone in this regard is their genetic memory. Due to their short life’s, it is difficult to pass on complex information unto the next generation. Therefore, each larvae inherits a base set of information from their parent. How much of this information they can access depends on the stage they grow into, as well as other more esoteric factors. But this means each new Silent One has an innate understanding on themselves, their environment and their society.

3.      Society:

Except for the Aphids, all Silent Ones are sapient beings who can rival a human in thought. However, their thought processes are different, with alien priorities and outlooks, due to their genetic memory, short lives and different lifestyles. Instinctively they know how to create tools and how to organize themselves in in a society, how to build stuff etc.  Communication and organization occur in a variety of ways. As per their name, the Silent Ones cannot talk like humanoids do. Instead, they communicate via pheromones, body language and via using wing vibrations. But as these things are not or only barley understandable by humanoids, they call these creatures Silent Ones.

How the Silent Ones organize themselves depends strongly on the environmental conditions. Depending on the available food, competition and other threats and how many Silent Ones exist around them, they can form everything from nomadic tribes to massive cities. These systems are typically organized in a fashion wherein the aphids are the lowest and most expandable group. As they can only understand and follow simple commands, Silent Ones use them for the base labour or as expendable workers. The pterids however act as scouts and sentinels. Groups of them stalk the sky around their territories, holding watch for threats and using javelins and other ranged weapons to repel them. The Orthoids naturally assume roles of leadership due to their comparative strength and versatility. Other cultures often equate them to knights. The massive Scaroids are the rarest breed, due to the amount of food necessary to create and to maintain them. Often it is more efficient for a society of Silent Ones use a massive corps for a multiple of the smaller categories, instead of one scaroird. Because whilst they are impressive and powerful, they cannot manipulate their environment with the same finesse. Their main duty focuses therefore on rough labour or on combat.

Locust Swarm East Africa (BBC)

In RL the main difference between a harmful species of grasshopper and a devouring swarm of locusts is proximity. If too many locusts live in an area, they will touch each other due to the lack of personal space. This frequent stimulus triggers a transformation. A flightless, herbivorous and solitary animal becomes a flying omnivore who is part of a massive, migratory swarm. The Silent Ones use a similar system. Normally Silent Ones live relatively hidden. But if their numbers reach a critical mass and/or a certain trigger event occurs (such as a special leader arising), a mental transformation rushes through the entire swarm of Silent Ones. This process has strong similarities to the WAAGH of the orruks. It causes Silent Ones to become expanding and aggressive. They produce exponentially more numbers, causing them to spill out of their cities and hiding spots, covering the land and the ground in chitinous creatures on a warpath. In such a state they will attack any opponent. Cities of Sigmar, Ogre forts, undead necropolisis, it doesn’t matter. Any slain enemy will be killed or become food or gestates a new generation of Silent Ones. However much like in RL Locusts these Swarmings are instable. Either they run out of food and the swarm will start to cannibalize itself, or they a beaten so severely, that they disperse. But failure does not matter to the Silent Ones. Even if their own settlements are destroyed in the worst cases, a single survivor could revive their entire civilization and start the cycle anew. The basic idea is taken from locust swarms, as these were a devasting hazard in the past for many human societies. A similar, upscaled approach would serve the Silent Ones excellently as members of Destruction, as they too would become a natural hazard of the realms.

Locust undergoing phyiscal shifts l. uncrowded, r. crowded (Entomologytoday)

4.      Religion: 

The Silent Ones do not believe in gods directly. To them these entities are just like the other predators and creatures which live in the realms. And indeed, their understanding of life and death is also very different from most lifeforms. Due to their short lives and their genetic memory, the Silent Ones strongly believe in reincarnation. Even if this body dies, you are reborn in another form in the future. Indeed, there are some Silent Ones, who claim to have full and conscious memory over all their previous lives. These Swarm Sages are the natural chosen leaders of their cultures. Because they claim to have centuries if not millennia of knowledge. Keyword claim. However, it can also happen that two Silent Ones claim to be the reincarnation of the same dead ancestor. In such a case the matter is usually settled with a swift duel in which one reincarnation kills the other to remove this issue. As such the Silent Ones do not believe in an afterlife. And gods are of little concern for them too, beyond acknowledging their existence.

However, they do believe in one entity. Their legends claim, that their ancestor, Kephr (named after the Egyptian scarab god who represents the reborn sun) was an insectoid godbeast, who bit Gorkamorka and feasted on its blood, like an overgrown tick. Enraged the orruk god hacked their legendary ancestor into pieces. But instead of dying, the myriads of parts fell over the mortal realms and became the first Silent Ones. From time to time there are some Silent Ones who claim to be Kephr reborn. Normally such a thing is blasphemy. But if these beings endure and proof their greatness, they attract masses of Silent Ones as their followers. Such Prophets of Kephr are dangerous entities. Regular Silent One Swarmings are dangerous enough. But if they are led by a Prophet of Kephr, the unleashed masses can be apocalyptic and devastate continents. Indeed, some Silent Ones belief that Kephr will be reborn both in body and in spirit, if a larvae can gestate within a god. Followers of this doctrine try to provoke and to attack deities, hoping to bring them down.

This cycle of individual death and rebirth but also of the growth and collapse of their society is also deeply ingrained into the Silent Ones mindset. To them time itself is a cycle, not a line. The Silent Ones value the lives of individuals not highly, not even their own. After all they will be reborn later. This willingness to die is disturbing to some humanoids, who for this reason think the Silent Ones are mind controlled by their superiors or are mindless beasts. But to the Silent Ones it is never just about the now. They are sure to return and thus this death is meaningless, as long as the Swarm survives. For this reason, there are also no medical experts among the Silent Ones. Instinctively they are aware how to treat certain conditions. But if a certain amount of effort or time would be required to cure the wounded, they would instead be killed and either eaten or used to hatch more larvae. With the later their rebirth is only accelerated.

And if the Silent Ones society collapses this is no issue either. Their numbers will rise soon enough again; new cities will be built and ultimately a new Swarming will be launched. And if conditions are too bleak even for the adaptable Silent Ones, then they will retreat and hibernate. Only to remerge centuries later in better times. The concepts of finite time, of things having a permanent end or a strict beginning, are alien concepts in their mind. Everything rises, everything falls, everything rises again.

5.      Economy:

As I mentioned, the genetic memory gives each Silent One a base skillset**. They have an innate understanding of natural materials and how to utilize them. Their artisanship and constructions are very skilled in this regard**. So, every Silent Ones knows how to make bows, slings, javelins as well as more peculiar weapons. Such as clubs with serrated edges of obsidian or teeth.

However, their short lifespan means they have trouble learning new skills. A Silent One could learn the art of ore refinement and smithing but would die shortly after mastering it. And their genetic memory usually does not cover these topics. Therefore, any metal artefacts used by them are raided or built from scrap. Indeed, having a breastplate or a weapon made from metal or other rare materials is a sign of status. As natural tinkerers Silent Ones can get very creative with their scrap constructions, but it does not reach the craftsmanship of other cultures.

Necrophage in metal armour (EL)

Additionally, the Silent Ones have some unique abilities. For example, much like termites or wasps they can consume earth or wood, mix it with their own saliva and create complex structures out of them. Hardened and dried up their earth-mix is as strong as cement, and their wood-salvia mix are lighter, but still strong enough to carry several Silent Ones. The Silent Ones use this inborn ability to construct hideouts, houses and even walls and fortresses in ways other factions couldn’t replicate. Such as an entire fortress built along the edge of a cliff or hanging form a cave ceiling.  The more Silent Ones are within an area, the quicker and more complex can such constructions. Some claim the hideout of the Avengori in Sascathren Desert was built on the foundations of the Silent Ones.

6.      Relations:

Order: Amongst most order factions the Silent Ones are an enemy. Especially among Dawners on march or in newly established settlements, the thought of facing a Swarming is nightmare inducing. They are seen as a calamity, a natural catastrophe, akin to orruk Waaghs or earthquakes. Even if the settlement somehow survives, the entire surrounding landscaped is easily stripped barren from any food source, making survival a dreaded prospect. For this reason, most order factions actively sent out hunting parties to cull the population, which may instead be a way to feed and equip the Silent Ones. However, many order scholars respect the craftsmanship of their kind, especially their inborn architectural knowhow.  Among Order the Sylvaneth are perhaps the only group who could understand the strange tongues of the Silent Ones naturally. But if such talks exist, they are seemingly fruitless and the Sylvaneth dread their swarmings too.

Chaos: The forces of chaos put little thought after the Silent Ones. In their arrogance they may be seen as low lifeforms unworthy of chaos attention, similar to grots and skaven. But much like these two, the Silent Ones are tenacious and can even survive and perhaps thrive in chaos-corrupted landscapes. This means even if a chaos warlord believes an area secure, suddenly a swarming could start in the heartlands of his territory, forcing him to abandon plans of conquests. One dreaded outcome is when Silent Ones and Skaven engage. Because one group has nearly unlimited numbers, whilst the other group can grow soldiers from every corpse they come across. Some cunning warlords made use of this, by actively sending untold skavens in suicide charges unto a Silent One settlement, only to retreat. The sudden Silent One population explosion could trigger a Swarming, and the Silent Ones may then attack the nearest other faction instead. Though this tactic backfired more than enough times.

Death: To Nighthaunt and Ossirach the Silent Ones are not a great concern, as both lack meat and cannot be used for food or gestation. Thouh as the Silent Ones lack bone too, they are wholly uninteresting to the Ossirach too, except when they threaten the bone tithe. Vampires and ghouls however suffer their attacks with the same impact as other factions, as the meat of zombies, vampires and ghouls is as good as everyone else. In turn the Silent Ones are troubling, as their souls is so different, that necromancers have trouble using them. Indeed, even the greatest lords of death seem to be unaware where the underworld of the Silent Ones lie, or whether they have one. Even insect-related afterlife’s like Chitinia seem to be empty of their dead (but not the living Silent Ones).

Destruction: Most destruction factions see the Silent Ones like any other member of their grand alliance. Another rival/challenge to beat up primarily, but an ally of convenience as well. That said there is still the issue of communication. Only few destruction members can be considered to be on talking terms with them and be able to understand the Silent Ones language. Among them are the Kruelboyz, especially the Skullbugz, as well as the Spiderfang Grots.  These two groups are perhaps the only ones which can claim proper diplomatic relations with the Silent Ones. But ogres hate the Siletn Ones. Because much like the skaven they swarm the land and consume everything without joy for feasting, and worse without leaving any scrab for the ogres to eat. And ogres think they taste horrible too!

Subfactions:

Kephrites: The Kephrites are a faction of Silent Ones whose main domain lies in Ghur. They are the most religious out of all the Silent Ones and venerate Kephri, as well as Ghur, the birthplace of their kind. Indeed, more than any other Swarm the Kephrites want to push the cycles to the point that Kephri itself can return. Swarm Sages spawn regularly among their ranks with this goal in mind. How they want to achieve this differs, however. Some Kephrites want to lure Gorkamorka out. The god that killed Kephri should be the source of its rebirth. Others believe the gods of Order a better targets and attack humans, aelfes and duradin to lure out their supreme beings. Their god slaying ambitions are excessive, but the Keprhites have existed since time immemorial in Ghur and they now that every creature can be killed. And if the all the Silent Ones could unite in one force, then surely even a god cannot stand against them. Due to Ghurs massive wildlife, they have the largest numbers of Scaroids and Ohtroids too.

Ashlings: The Ashlings are Silent Ones are one of the largest swarms and hail form Ashqy. They received their names form the ashen colour of their carapace, with which they are hard to spot. The Ashlings venerate fire, as they see themselves within it. A single spark may start a small flame, which can grow into an inferno, only to burn down into glooming ashes. Ashes which could restart the fire. Much like how the Swarmings of the Silent Ones act. Therefore, they paint flame motives unto their bodies and go into battle carrying torches and open fire with them. They love to set buildings on fire and to burn cities to the ground. For them it is quite the spectacle, but it is also a process of renewal. Much like how a burned down forest leaves fertile ashes for new trees behind, so do the Ashlings believe that burning down cities helps their renewal. Whether the inhabitants like this gesture or not is irrelevant.

Attat: Attat are perhaps the most deviant of the Silent Ones. They live primarily in Chamon but can also be found in other realms. As food (be it meat or plant based) is rare in chamon these Silent Ones had to find different ways to survive. They focus on the construction of great underground settlements and rarely enact proper Swarmings. Instead, parties will be sent out to collect any meat or plant material available and bring it back into their settlements. There, in a central chamber, a massive fungus growth over the organic matter they bring in. This fungus breaks down even the undigestible metallic properties of chamons wildlife. In turn it serves as the main food and gestation source for the Silent Ones, who adopt many metallic traits from it. The lack of big gestation sources means that Orthoids and Scaroids are rare among the Attat, but they compensate with much tougher individuals who make great use of chamons natural metals.

 7.Military:

Kir'ko (AoW Planetfall)

The Silent Ones engage in combat in a variety of ways. The two preferred approaches are hit and run attacks, in which the enemy is harassed by tunneling or flying Silent Ones, or in massive swarms which hit the enemy like a massive tidal wave. Each of their four stages has a different battlefield role for this purpose. The small aphids act as expendable meat shields, drowning the enemy in their massive numbers. Pterids are the flying scouts and skirmishers, as well as the main-line warriors. The bigger and much faster Orthoids act as shock cavalry, being able to cover fast distances whilst leaping and gliding on their wings. And lastly the Scaroids are used as massive beasts of war, being line breakers or tasks with fighting other large monsters and beast. Their adaptability aids the Silent Ones in these wars. One common training exercise includes beating up the recruits, so that their carapace becomes tougher and denser.

But it is not just the Silent Ones who fight in their wars. Many animals and monsters have learned that the Swarmings are a great opportunity for food, either feasting on the Silent Ones themselves or their victims. The Silent Ones learned to capture and break these would-be predators and are now unleashing them unto the enemy.

In battle the Silent Ones prefer to rush forward from all sides. Slower ground forces bind the enemy, only for fast moving units and fliers to flank and encircle them. Terrain rarely affects the Silent Ones in this regard, as they are great climbers all. This mobility is always a key motive for the Silent Ones. They do not need logistics like most order armies. Any corpse on the battlefield is both food and gestation material for new Silent Ones. And enemy weapon or armor can be repurposed to aid the Silents Ones instead. Thus, their massive armies can move without great pauses. “War feeds itself” applies well to a Silent One Host.  This campaign speed means a Silent One army can cover great distances in short notice, making it difficult for enemies to react in time. However, this lack of resources and logistics also makes them much more susceptible to scorched earth tactics. And once they lose the momentum or ability to feed from outside sources, a Silent One army may start to cannibalize itself, making them much more vulnerable targets.

Heroes:

Orthoid Chosen: The Orthoid bioform combines the greatest amount of strength with intellect and still maintains the ability to interact in nuances with its environment. This makes them the natural pool from which leaders arise. The Orthoid chosen to rise to the ranks by beating down all their rivals and showing that their own cunning will lead the Silent Ones to victory over their enemies. Often, they are (or claim to be) Swarm Sages and will try to reenact the greatest victories of their past lives. They are dangerous enemies who can direct the hordes of Silent Ones like one great instrument to break down their enemies.

Prophet of Kephr: Whether Prophets of Kephr have supernatural powers because they are the legendary ancestor reincarnated, or whether they claim to be the legendary ancestor because of their great powers is an unsolvable question. Still the Prophets can perform unique miracles and prayers which can greatly enhance the natural abilities of the Silent Ones and influence. As if they are clay to be moulded, their wings become stronger, their carapace harder, wounds heal, their claws deadlier and their minds more furious. Even over insects are drawn to the prophets and can be directed at the enemy forces.

Silent Shaman: if a larva gestates in the body of a wizard, or a corpse lined with realm stone, it is forced to adapt to the rampant magical energies around it. In most cases this adaptation will cause the larvae to be resistant to magic. But sometimes the opposite happens and by chance the resulting Silent One will be capable of wielding the magic of the realms through its own body and mind. As their lives are too short to study magic in-depth, the mages focus on instinctual incarnations and whatever knowledge they inherited from their ancestors. The resulting magic is elemental in nature, focussed especially the elements the Silent Ones are most familiar with. Strong winds push their warriors forward, collapsing ground keeps their enemies stuck, blasts of magic melt flesh from bone etc. What they lack in magical skill however they compensate in being able to feast on enemy magic.

Units:

Aphid: Aphids show up in innumerable numbers and act much like grots or skaven warriors. They are given simple weapons and shall stall or overwhelm the enemy with the sheer numbers of their body.

Fire Kobold: These Aphids experienced heat and fire so often, that they grew adaptations to it. This does not make them immune to fire, but they can endure much higher temperatures. Naturally this means the Fire Kobolds are covered in inflammable oils and given torches to rush the enemy line, turning them into living bombs.

Pterid Skirmisher: Pterid Skirmishers are the most common type of this stage. They are agile flyers who block out the sun above the battlefield with their many wings. In combat they prefer ranged weapons, sending down a hail of projectiles. This includes javelins, which they can throw with their long, segmented limbs at great force, as well as bows.

Pterid Bombardier: Some Silent Ones captured grenades (or traded from Kruelboyz) or built other explosives and inflammable bombs from natural materials. The Pterid Bombardiers then work as specialists who set aflame enemy cover and defenses from high above.

Pterid Fighter: Adaptation in one direction means a handicap in another. These Pterids adapted to physical hits so strongly, that their carapace is now to heavy and thick for proper flight. The Pterids can still make use of their wings for jumping and gliding but are bound to the ground. They compensate for this by being the most elite melee infantry, often carrying metal weapons armor they scavenged from enemy forces for more durability.

Orhtoid Charger: Due to their size and great jumping ability, the orthoids act as the cavalry. These are the field skirmishers and carry large, harpoon-like weapons. They can throw them with at great distances, as their segmented arms/legs form a natural catapult mechanism. This, together with their maneuverability, makes them devastate flankers and skirmishers.

Orhtoid Knight: The knights are called this way by their many enemies, as they fulfill a similar purpose. These orthoids are covered in as much defensive material (scavenged armor, animal hides etc) as possible and use spear-like weapons or serrated clubs in close combat. As shock-units, they aim to break the enemy upon the charge

Earth-Shaker Scarroid: Earth-Shakers are scarroids which adapted to an underground life. Out of war they are used as tunnel builders and constructers for subterrain settlements. These partcices gave them strong, board claws and plates which form an impressive armor. In addition, they can tunnel below the battlefield and emerge right behind the enemy lines. Often accompanied by swarms of flightless Aphids, who then rush the enemies’ lines.

Spike-Scarroid: These Scarroids adapted to fighting great creatures of the realms in physical combat. As a result, they have grown a cover of long thorns and spikes all over their bodies to be untouchable to melee strikes. In combat it is their job to bind enemy cavalry or monsters in close combat.

Venom-Spitter Scarroid: The digestive fluids, which the Silent Ones use to break down wood earth to form their organic cement, can be a devastating weapon too. The Venom-Spitter developed large glands constantly producing the fluid. In combat they can spit it unto the enemy. Contrary to the name it is not a venom, but a strong digestive acid, which can burn throw cloth and skin. This turns the scarroid into short to mid ranged artillery pieces.

Creatures:

Toxpiede Stalkers: Toxipede Stalkers are normally hunters of Silent Ones, especially of the smaller stages. Indeed, they frequently aim to invade their settlements or patrol their the most common routes. The Silent Ones learned to adapt to this threat and soon came to capture them. Much like the Silent Ones, the Toxipede Stalker works with pheromones for communication. After a bit of tinkering, the Silent ones created a mixture which has the Toxipede think of them as non-prey. This does not account for any enemy forces the Silent Ones encounter, however. In combat the Toxpiedes glide into the background, being nigh invisible among the myriad of chitinous bodies. Only for these beasts to suddenly emerge like a shark from the waters to jump unsuspecting targets.

Toxipede Stalker (WD498)

Land Kraken: The largest creatures of the Silent Ones host and one of the most uncontrollable. They are initially attracted by the prospect of feasting on myriads of Silent Ones, only to be put in chains and set to starve. Driven into a aggressive hunger-frenzy these beasts are then unleashed upon the enemy lines. Their long arms can pack and crush infantry and even horses with ease, whilst their hard beaks can pierce even iron oak. But unlike the Toxipede Stalkers there is nothing stopping these creatures to attack the Silent Ones, if the rough conditioning is broken.

Land Kraken (WD498)

Greetings And Salutations, Scholars of the world long dead.

This is basically just a "No Stupid Questions" thread for any question concerning Warhammer Fantasy or Old World lore. I know this is mostly an AOS subreddit, but, now more than ever, a bunch of stuff from old WHF lore is coming up and becoming relevant for AOS, and I for once have stopped being a believer on the separation of the two settings. WHF lore as it is spread online, is full of quite a bit of misinformation and misconceptions and I seek to try to make people's knowledge of the setting more accurate, and of course, have quite some fun in the process by having an excuse to dig more lore.

So, if you have something you want to discuss something or had a question, but don't want to make an entire post for it?

Then feel free to strike up the discussion or ask the question here

In this thread, you can ask anything about WHF/Old World lore, the fluff, characters, background, how something from it relates to AOS.

Community members are encouraged to be helpful and to provide sources and links that can aid new, curious, and returning Lore Pilgrims.

This thread is NOT to be used for:

-Ask "What If/Who would win" scenarios.

-Strike up Tabletop discussions. However, questions regarding how something from the tabletop is handled in the lore are fine.

-Real-world politics.

-Making unhelpful statements like "just Google it"

-Asking for specific (long) excerpts or files

Remember to be kind and that everyone started out new, even you.

It’s always exciting to see two legendary heroes clash. There’s really no disputing that. When two forces of this caliber finally meet on the battlefield, you know you’re in for something special.

Which brings us to tonight’s fight.

Context: After Katakros’s incredible winning streak against the forces of the Eightpoints, all while the Everchosen was absent, Archaon finally returns.

And he’s pissed.

>The tyrant of the Eightpoints advanced, his blazing eyes fixed upon Katakros, the sheer force of his hatred turning the air to a sweltering haze.

>

>Katakros only watched, impassive, as his army collapsed around him. The daemon tide had broken the Mortek shieldwall and riotous, howling shapes swept across his lines, slaughtering as they went. As the Everchosen pressed closer, he dictated some final observations to his Gnosis Scrollbearer.

>

>‘Palisade of blades ineffective against daemonic attacks,’ he said. ‘Concentration of Crawler bombardments far more effectual.’

>Archaon was only twenty paces away now, the ranks of Katakros’ personal guard little more than a smouldering ruin of charred bones. The Mortarch gestured forwards with Inda-Khaat, and his attendants drew their weapons and advanced towards the foe. His Prime Necrophoros, bearing aloft the Mortarch’s personal banner, managed to gouge a great wound in Dorghar’s flank before a backhand swing of the Everchosen’s blade took off his skull. Karash, his Liege-Immortis, exchanged a flurry of blows with the lord of the Eightpoints but was soon bitten in half by the tyrant’s daemonic beast.

>

>The Mortarch’s attendants dropped their accoutrements of service and hurled themselves at the Everchosen in defence of their master; one by one, they met a violent end. Finally, only the Mortarch remained. Katakros shrugged off his robe and stepped forwards.

>

>‘Know that your end will be a slow and torturous one, trespasser,’ growled Archaon. Katakros merely raised his ensorcelled shield and awaited his enemy’s strike. The tyrant’s mount struck with fearsome swiftness. Katakros fended off the slavering jaws of one chimeric head with the Shield Immortis and sank his glaive into the beast’s neck.

>

>As the beast reared away, Archaon slammed his burning blade into the Mortarch’s shoulder, gouging through bone and armour. Katakros ducked aside as that dread sword lashed out again and again, each subsequent blow missing him by mere inches.

>

>And so it went: strike, parry and cleaving blow, a duel of impossible speed and fury. Here, before the gates of the Varanspire, there could be only one victor. Dorghar struck, and Katakros raised the Shield Immortis a fraction too slowly. Monstrous reptilian jaws clamped around his chest. He felt them crunch through his armoured body, agony searing through him as acidic drool poured into his form.

>Another head clamped down and tore Inda-Khaat from his grasp. Impaled and helpless, the Mortarch was lifted bodily to meet the pitiless, burning gaze of the Everchosen.

>

>‘Not… so easy,’ Katakros gasped. Then the Slayer of Kings descended and blackness consumed him.

Thankfully it seems Last World has finally been fully debunked. Despite the universe guide, and several new novels, the sharp decrease in novels and the validity of previous rumors seemed to cause concern for many of us.

But the latest batch, which while given by a different source but backed and corrected by the originals, is just written like bad fanfiction and actively goes against what has been established prior. A few of the many things that just make the rumor contradict itself and established lore as follows:

>Vhordrai betrays Nagash again. Despite refusing to do so several times prior due to the potential consequences. And Neferata and Mannfred are chill again.

Nagash is back but also not back.

>Erasmus and every CoS character dies besides Tahlia, the guy who just got a mini and lore dies? Same with the 4e skaven characters? While I respect AOS killing characters with minis, this many at once sounds unlikely.

>Also Gorkamorka is somehow back all of a sudden and takes Excelsis. Despite the notably anti-gorkamorka ogors of Redd and Morga currently being the ones to attack Excelsis.

>Varanspire is destroyed, despite all previous rumors saying it'd be the capital of the Northern chaos wastes.

>Also Malerion is corrupted by Slaanesh?! Not Morathi?! The guy who's had no contact with Slaanesh, never worshipped him, and resisted a genetic call by KHAINE somehow gets corrupted over the character that is guilty of all 3.

>And all this is supposed to happen in 3 books.

It's safe to say this has been one massive troll by the leakers to remind us that rumors are rumors. Something massive and wrong to get us to stop taking every rumor of theirs as fact. Or if TLW really does happen, it's gonna be very different from what the leakers suggest. Since Nick North and the other lore writers actually have shown to respect the lore they've made and what came before. Something that can't be said about 40k's (looks at Wraithbone retcon)

Has characters in the lore actually travelled through mundane means across the length of entire realms? Do we know how long that takes?

Do the realms actually expand slowly over time, or do they mostly stay the same size, which seems to be much bigger than the World That Was, but perhaps not literally infinite in scale.

Dark, post-post-apocalyptic, and two minutes past midnight are descriptors used throughout the book. Chaos, the forces of evil and darkness reign triumph.

> "and though the storm clouds gather thick on the horizon, they might just herald deliverance instead of doom."

From the opening section.

> Yet they will not - cannot - give up the fight.

From the Stormcast section.

> They may stumble, they may even fall, but they will never, ever give up.

From the Cities of Sigmar section.

Evil has won the Mortal Realms is the tone of the Ultimate Guide. Yet the tone is also defiant, hopeful, and full of wonder. More, much more importantly, these are not treated as naivety but as valuable qualities.

It is a setting of creation versus entropy, hope against despair, ingenuity set against senseless cruelty. Evil achieving is not treated as a foregone conclusion but it is asked what compromises will be made.

I know plenty of folk will say that the darkest presented here, and that has honestly been here since the Realmgate Wars, is too much. To all of you, if you are honest and sincere, I can understand that take. Respect it to.

But I wanted to throw this together quick to show and say, it isn't all darkness in the Realms and even in this Guide the good that's there is treated as worthwhile and beautiful.

Hope you all have pleasant travels my fellow Realmwalkers.

The book is out, and I already bought the physical version. It should arrive in a few weeks. A digital sample ebook is available on some bookstore sites. The sample starts from the introduction section and ends at the Stormcast section.

Here are the cliffnotes:

-The Mortal Realms, or what's left of them, are on the brink of utter destruction. Nowhere is safe. The cities of Sigmar are like islands of light in a sea of darkness. The races of Order march shoulder to shoulder, taking with them the fires of hope into the hellish landscapes. Each day is a struggle for survival against countless foes. And even if they are victorious, each battle saps a little more of their souls.

-AoS is a fantastical counterpart to 40K. At its heart, it's a grimdark fantasy that's equal parts horror and splendour, vibrant colour and all-consuming darkness.

-40K is the fate of humanity's struggle against Chaos set at the tipping point of two mights to midnight. AoS is about what happens at two minutes after midnight. The Chaos Gods won, and the Mortal Realms have become hellish landscapes dominated by the forces of Chaos. AoS is a tale of the forces of Order fighting to reclaim the realms from Chaos (and the threats of Death and Destruction).

-After Chaos closed its grip on the Mortal Realms, they have become as grimy and horrendous as the World-That-Was.

-The appeal of AoS is that post-apocalyptic survival being juxtaposed with astonishing grandeur. Also, what's appealing about the setting is that it is very morally grey.

-The Mortal Realms are limitless, and the stories told in them are without number. They are stories of people fighting for the light while all around them is being consumed by darkness, creation vs entropy, hope vs despair, ingenuity vs senseless cruelty. The gathering storm clouds in AoS might herald salvation instead of doom.

-After the Destruction of the Old World, all that is left is the stuff of magic itself, the souls of the lost, and the molten core of the planet hurtling through the cosmos to undiscovered territory.

-The Mortal Realms formed from shattered earth, stardust, and the raw magic of the Old World's destruction.

-The narrative is based on a tale of two chronological settings. The protagonists of the first setting seized enough power to become literal gods, known as ascended gods. They are set against eldritch and timeless entities known as Elemental Gods. First among the Elemental Gods are the Ruinous Powers of Chaos.

-Archaon was once a devout mortal, but after finding out a damning truth about the nature of all gods, he became Sigmar's most terrible foe.

-Archaon won the favour of each of the Chaos Gods, yet he remains in control of his destiny.

-Ancient galactic forces shaped the Mortal Realms into living worlds where motes of magic crystallised in every stone and blade of grass.

-Dracothion breathed life into Sigmar and showed him the wonders of the Mortal Realms. The other Incarnates awoke in the realms they are attuned to.

-When Chaos invaded the Mortal Realms, Sigmar fought an unwinnable war against Chaos, for he cannot be everywhere. After losing his hammer, Sigmar withdrew to Azyr and sealed its gates. Sigmar left those who couldn't reach safety in time to their cruel fate. Chaos didn't just tear apart the cities and people of the realms; the very landscape was twisted and corrupted. Even united, the people of the realms could not stand before the onslaught of Chaos.

-To those who know the truths of existence, it is an act of incredible hubris for Sigmar and his kind to oppose the Chaos Gods. The Chaos Gods are not mere ascended gods, but endless and timeless entities that seek to devour reality itself. The Four are the most powerful of their number.

-Many of Tzeentch's plans contradict, but as long as reality suffers, Tzeentch is pleased.

-Similar to the cycle of light and darkness of Hysh and Ulgu, albeit far slower, the cycle of Ghyran and Shyish controls the seasons of the Mortal Realms. If Ghyran ascends, it is spring and then summer. If Shyish waxes, it's autumn and then winter.

The war between Chaos and Order isn't only waged in the Mortal Realms. Between the Mortal Realms exists the Aetheric Void, where the magic that formed the realms is vanishingly rare. Within the void, there also exist several strange sub-realms and dimensional breaches.

-Nurgle brews all the plagues of all worlds in his infinite cauldron.

-There might be a few motes of life magic in Shyish and vice versa in Ghyran; there are always some to draw upon. Life is birthed in Shyish and death exists in Ghyran, after all. Though the spells of the magic native to the realm are stronger, it's still possible to cast the magic of other realms, especially if the magic user is skilled and carries with them artifacts from the magic's realm.

-Faith is a two-way street. As the worshipers are empowered by their god, the god gains power from the acts of belief and devotion of those who worship them. The more people pay homage and commit themselves to the worship of the god, the more powerful they become. Just as the Realmgates allow persons to move between the realms, the souls of the faithful allow the god to move a measure of their power to the Mortal Realms. Shrines and sites of worship have similar effects to a lesser extent. The faithful can channel the miracles of their god, and in some cases the god can see through their eyes.

One of the things I really like about the Fyreslayers is that they lean a lot more into the monster angle rather than the machine which is my preference. And the ones who best showcase that facet of the faction outside of the leadership riding the magmadroths are the Vulkyn Flameseekers.

These hearty duardin seek out the magmadroth eggs and ensure that they are both safe and take what magmadroths they can find to be trained as warmounts for the Lodge. This is something they consider a sacred duty as they lean a lot more into the Vulcatrix side of the Grimnir/Vulcatrix worship. And they got a few specialists who help with that and a cute little mascot.

As I said I like the monster angle but also that in typical warcry fashion the designers made sure to incorporate several angles of the concept in the unit. The generic spade weapon called a bokaz is a small detail but one I quite like as it has been a part of dwarf lore that their weapons originated from tools hence their fondness for axes and hammers with a spade weapon being a natural extension of that.

Another aspect I like is the duality the Drothmaster the tamer and trainer of Magmadroths and the Drothblood Thane who deals with those beasts considered too dangerous to live. Which considering their worship is either considered a great honour or a bit of a mark of shame I suspect.

What do people think of the warband? Do they like the idea? What other parts of Vulcatrix worship would you like to see expanded upon?

So far the Tahlia Vedra stories have given Hammerhal quite an interesting cast of senior officers. Gruff old Azyrites with secret hearts of gold, mercenaries and trailbreakers turned champions of the people, ambitious louts of all demographics. Vidurn, dead by the start of "First Marshal", is perhaps the most hateable.

Who is Vidurn? Vidurn is an ambitious individual who dressed in a panoply meant to resemble the style of the Lantic Empire of Chamon, a great civilization of the Age of Myth and last of the great human nations to fall to the blades of Chaos per 1E's Mighty Battles. He was a Marshal when Katrik le Guillion and Tahlia Vedra were young. He offered favor towards promising officers, disagreed with the way the Conclave ran things, chose the brutal arithmetic of war while also playing the part of populist. A man who sought to sacrifice Katrik and her regiment for his own ambitions, who sees friendship offered as favors due back to him.

He destroyed his rivals, elevated his minions, and sought to wield Vedra as a useful thug. Or to get blunt and short: He is every bit the kind of person that much of the community thought Tahlia Vedra would be.

Despite being dead in "First Marshal" there is a scene, that I won't spoil over much, where he facilitates a change in Tahlia. This one, in fact:

>War necessitated sacrifice. The brutal arithmetic of combat was easy to balance when one saw only the goal. What were a thousand Freeguild lives compared to the survival of Hammerhal? What were ten thousand? Tahlia had let herself believe that it was she, not the Conclave, who knew what was best for Hammerhal.

That was how tyrants were born.

>The realisation lent Tahlia strength, anger enough to part the fevered mists of dream and seek the source of her unquiet memories.

Chapter Seventeen of First Marshal

Here in this moment Tahlia realizes how she acts, regarding her relationship with the Grand Conclave and how she manages the regiments under her command, is disturbingly similar to her old mentor. Disturbingly edging toward tyranny, warlordism. She decides to change.

Course Tahlia has always been shown caring about her troops. But if you've read this novel or "Lioness of the Parch", or anything she's in. She has a certain acceptance of sacrifice, as most Sigmarites due. So seeing each story have her pull farther from that is interesting.

So when the 4E Cities of Sigmar Battletome came out, revealing it was Tahlia Vedra herself ordering hundreds of Cogforts to the frontlines where they'll save lives and frontiers? I found that, interesting! Cause it very much aligns with the character arcs and experiences she has in these novels, impeccable work by Evan Dicken it shall be said. Triply so if he didn't know in advance what 4E's Battletome would have Tahlia do.

Naturally, Tahlia is an alley manticore in the skin of a human. So I doubt this revelation and her decision to change will stop her clashing with authorities, self-improvement is a journey after all. But the moment is fascinating, the acknowledgement is fascinating.

There are moments where Tahlia feels like she might edge towards a path of tyranny, towards authoritarianism, towards conflict with more than just corruption. So seeing it acknowledged by the narrative and Tahlia herself is such a great story beat.

But I am ranting and often scattered in how I convey a thought. What are yours, my fellow Realmwalkers? What are your feelings towards Tahlia as a character? Expectations for the future? Opinions on launching the Cogfort batteries?

So in the lore the ogors ascribe any natural phenomena to being an aspect of their god and I was wondering what ideas the community had for ways specific tribes might go about that.

For example an idea I had was that in Aqshy in areas with both great dry seasons and wet seasons the ogors believe that their god does not desire flesh but the fluids residing in creatures so a lot of their Butchers work is focused on squizing as much liquid out of their larder as possible and dislike cooking methods that cause a lot of steam. They would refer to it as the Thirsting God or depending on if there are specific terrain features the Burning Star or something like that.

The Mawseeker religion would have found eager converts as they dislike overcooking their meals as well.

Age of Sigmar needs more authors....

And it needs to allow the era that the current edition is in to breath. There are so many things that are happening, but most of the things that we read from the setting are short stories, and very few books. During the Era of the Beast, they introduced the Draconith, sure there are units, but hardly any stories about them or proper representation in lore books. There are so many possible stories, but hardly anything is being written. People complain about Stormcast Eternals because they think they are boring, and I say, try to make them more interesting.

I'm glad that they are making more Age of Sigmar animations, but it's too slow.