I’m married (36F) with one son from my previous marriage. My first husband died and my second husband (43M) is a narcissist. Our marriage counselor pulled me aside and told me my husband was abusing me and to run. He cut off my credit card and made everything so much harder. I went back to school last year and my husband made it impossible to get school work done. He would start fights whenever I was studying. I got those classes done but have taken another break because I ended up failing one class. I need to go back. I need to leave him. As of tonight, he said he wants a divorce and us out of his house. I was an idiot I know. I left my financial stability for him. I thought I had truly found love after pain and grief so I moved a state away and left my job for him. My therapist even liked him. My son adored him. My husband would talk about adopting my son. Ever since we said “I do” he switched. Slowly over time. Turns out, it was all a facade. He was texting a 22 year old coworker the day he came to move me into his home. I didn’t find out until well after we got married. And now since he has lost 100 pounds on a glp-1, he wants his single life back and us out asap. I can see it clearly now. He is obviously interested in someone because the sweet, kind, caring man he showed me is what he is showing to the world now. He told me he wanted a divorce tonight and then went upstairs and texted me an apology for everything he has done. I’ve never gotten an apology for anything before. He normally doesn’t even acknowledge any pain, hurt or emotions I have. I know it’s not safe here. My son deserves a healthy family. I deserve a healthy environment too. My question is how do I do this? I have no community. My first husband’s parents died years ago. I literally have no one. No career. My question is if you were a solo mom and needed to go back to school, where would you move to? What state? This is the first time I truly have nothing to stay in this area for. My parents died this past year. I don’t have siblings I talk to. I just want to build a healthy, happy life for my son and I. I’ll be taking my dog and cat. The pets were mine with my late husbands. I want a good school and friends for my son. I came from an abusive family so I am aware how I ended up with my now husband. I just don’t feel like living around here is good for us. There’s no resources. It’s a small red town with one store. Jobs are limited. If you were a solo mother with no village, what state would you live in? Any certifications you would get to start making some money? Give me all of the helpful advice because I am determined to change our lives.

Edit: He is in law enforcement which just makes this so much worse. The smear campaign started a long time ago. He fooled my entire family for 15 years. I’ve known him that long and still had no idea who he was. Even my first husband liked him and my first husband was so caring and loving.

I’ve been putting off filling out forms for hiring a lawyer. I know it’s necessary but I’m also realizing that it’s because I’m scared of another blowup from my stbx wife who I still cohabitate with. Just wondering how explosive your ex because when you were through this. Currently feeling a lot of anxiety.

My ex-husband and I went through a very drawn-out custody battle. He's a very controlling person and loves to use threats and physical intimidation to get his way. He was abusive during our marriage. We had an 80/20 parenting schedule for 2 years during the divorce process, with me having the 80%.

During the last couple years, his work schedule changed quite a few times, and when he found out he would be off every Friday, he demanded that he get every single Friday with our toddler. I felt this was unreasonable. I do all the school pick up/drop offs, all the appointments, her speech therapy, all the non-fun stuff a normal parent should do, and he just wants the fun times only. I wanted to be able to have a longer weekend, too, but he didn't care. I fought for 80% because he's not a safe, reliable, or stable person.

He threatened to take me to trial for 50/50 if I didn't give him his every single Friday. In the end, the judge gave him every Friday, and I got everything else I asked for. I now have 75% and he has 25%. On his weekends, he picks her up from school (or my house in the summer) at 10:30am. and keeps her for his weekend. On the Fridays before my weekend, he still picks her up at 10:30 am, but then I drive 30-40 minutes to pick her up that evening at 6:00pm for my weekend. Final orders were given 3 months ago.

I just received a text from him requesting a parenting time change. He now has to work every single Friday and can't pick her up at 10:30am. He's suggesting that she stay with me until he gets off work and picks her up at 4:00pm. It's so frustrating because he demanded every Friday and I knew this would happen. I replied back that I am open to changing the schedule, but instead, I think we should drop the Friday pick up that is before my weekend. Why have him pick-up at 4pm and drive her 30-40 minutes to his home, to then have me drive out there and pick up at 6:00pm and then drive our child back to my house another 30-40 minutes. The back and forth is too much. I agreed to keep her until 4pm on his Fridays, but drop the short visitation on the Fridays before my weekend.

He said, "I'm not giving up any Fridays if that's what you're suggesting. I can pick her up every Friday at 4pm."

The audacity is mind-blowing, but I can't say I'm surprised. I'm really struggling with what to do.

TLDR: my narcissistic ex husband says he wants to talk. When asked what it was regarding, he says “closure”. We’ve scheduled a discussion in person next week. How should I prepare? Is it a bad idea to agree to this?

I’m looking for advice. I’m currently about to finally sign my divorce. It’s been hell, and I can’t wait to be done. Long story short, I was in a relationship with a narcissist, once I learned about what was happening and my eyes opened to the abuse, I decided to leave him. I was 4 months postpartum with our first. I didn’t want to expose the baby to the abuse. After I decided to be done and it became clear to him, then things got uglier every day until I was granted a full stay away order of protection which meant he could not communicate with me at all about anything except the baby, and we couldn’t be in any of the same spaces together except for exchanges of the baby at neutral locations. This order was a godsend and the only way I’ve been able to survive this process. I can’t imagine if we were still under the same roof.

Anyway, as we’re wrapping up the divorce, I dropped the order down to a no offensive contact order which is less extreme and basically he just can’t harass me. We can be in the same spaces and we can communicate beyond just the baby. I have exclusive use and rights of my house, so we’ll obviously remain living separate.

I’ve done a lot of healing and feel like my self worth has come back. I’m certainly not “healed” but I think I’m in a much more mature emotional state, much more aware of my boundaries, and tolerate much less bullshit. I’ve also finally stopped letting my ex steal so much of my energy and mental space. It’s taken awhile.

We have a baby. He’s getting 50/50. We’re going to be in each other’s lives forever unfortunately. He also has his new supply source already and so he’s been kinder to me. I do understand him wanting a conversation for “closure” since we went full no contact with the order of protection. However, before that order was granted, I must’ve explained to him 100 times why I was done and why I didn’t deserve this, and how his treatment was abusive. As you all know, there’s no getting through to a narcissist. In fact, he simply just accused me of being one and deflected everything he ever did on to me.

I agreed to have the conversation, and then he responded with some date over a week away. This felt like an intentional way to once again get under my skin. Who says “we need to talk” then blows the person off for a week? But I try to remain unbothered on the surface and show no reaction. So I agreed to meet next Wednesday. When I asked him what the conversation would be regarding, he said “closure”. I was honestly assuming it would be that he’s moving in with his new flame and she’d be playing step mom to our baby. There’s still a chance it could be this, but closure threw me for a loop.

Anyway to sum it up, I’m looking for some advice. I’m sure he’s expecting me to show up and make a bunch of apologies so he can feel better about himself. I’m not going to do that. I certainly don’t believe I’ll get any real apologies from him. But in a way, this feels like my chance to speak firmly and confidently in my decision, and defend every action throughout this divorce with integrity. Not explain myself, just stand on my decisions. And try and keep it focused on how we will coparent moving forward. I truly don’t want to show any emotion because he feeds off that. That will be the hardest part, because I still cry every day about the situation. Has anyone attempted a conversation like this with a narc? Any advice? Is this a horrible idea and should I not put myself in this situation? We’re meeting at a public place and I fully plan to get up and leave the second he starts attacking my character. I will show zero tolerance for his abuse anymore. I think that might surprise him. I think it will feel empowering to me. Help me out—what should I do/say?

Feeling completely mentally drained and burnt out dealing with narc stbx wife

I feel like my brain is burnt out from constantly being vigilant to whatever my soon-to-be-ex is throwing at me through this divorce. I feel like a husk of a human being.

The latest: she's planning to introduce our son to her new partner, then have him move in just a month later. My son is 9 and struggles with new people and new situations even under the best of circumstances. This is not that.

I'm so exhausted from having to protect him from her. I wish he had a mom who didn't put herself ahead of him. I wish I didn't have to constantly deal with her bullshit.

I've been on disability leave because this divorce has put me in a bad mental place. The disability support people I've talked to have pointed out how much of a toll it's taking on me to constantly deal with her behavior. I have to give 150% all of the time. Our son deserves better.

I'm just so fucking tired. Needed to vent.

And if the trolls that come here and defend the narc could just skip over this thread, that would be amazing.

I’m 31. I’m working on switching to another career and it’s just for money, it’s in AI and my company is paying for it. If I could go to my true passion of mortuary science I would but I can’t take on any debt rn.

I’m going through a divorce where my ex took all the money, the kids are with him more, he has a healthy family and community, and I’m one paycheque from homelessness and can barely afford food.

My lawyer is indifferent. If it wasn’t for my current job, I wouldn’t have a lawyer since the benefits at my job are good even though the pay is trash. I make 23 an hour.

What little legacy we built he decided to squander it and any time I tried to build community he’d find a way to squash it so I’m inevitably alone, basically penniless and lost. Nothing feels worth it and even with resources it’s not what I **need.**

The only real value I have is a corporate life insurance policy designated to the kids. That’s it. What even can you do in this situation? If it wasn’t for a friend of mine letting me rent a room cheap I’d be in my car, and he’s trying to take that away too.

TL;DR My divorce was maddening for no good reason, and I realize I don’t know anyone IRL who can relate.

Hi all. (28M ex is 27F) (she was a covert narcissist)

I’ve recently finalized my divorce. And as I gain distance from the divorce, I’m realizing how absolutely batshit it was.

I talk to other people who have been divorced, and they talk about how hard it is, but usually it’s hard because of the loss of the relationship, or custody of kids.

We had no kids. Decent amount of money. And I was willing to give her majority (60-70%).

I spent a year and a half in hell. I was stonewalled for the first few months. Every time I talked to her and began to come to something close to an agreement she would panic. She even admitted what she was asking for would set herself up for abundance of success and harm me for years, but she was okay with that.

During the process, I couldn’t get angry at her. I always had some kind of understanding for her. Now the details are starting to piss me off.

- We went in front of a judge 3 times for temporary orders instead of negotiating.
- She lied about me spending $30,000 on a Europe vacation.
- She freaked out about the realtor I picked to sell a house neither of us lived in and I couldn’t afford anymore
- She fucked herself over to burn both of us down (she got a way worse deal than I offered initially)
- She wrote on a label maker of mine <[my name] 🖕>

I’m on anti-anxiety/anti-depression medication now. I’m tens of thousands of dollars in debt. I’m so scared to interact with the world. I get migraines now.

None of this makes sense. And I wanted to write all this out to see if there’s anyone else out there who relates. I’m sure there is, but I haven’t found any IRL. I think it would be awesome to truly find someone to empathize with

Methodology: From Interaction to Neutralization

Analysis of 2 million minutes of support data confirms a recurring frustration: survivors often view "setting boundaries" as an emotional plea. In reality, with high-conflict personalities, emotional pleas are interpreted by the system as engagement.

At Circles, we’ve found that the most effective way to manage conflict isn't to out-argue the narcissist; it’s to systematically remove the feedback loop they rely on. The "Grey Rock" protocol is not an act of submission; it is a tactical disengagement system.

One important thing to remember, Grey Rock is not difficult because the responses are complicated. It is difficult because it asks you to let go of the hope that one more explanation will finally change the dynamic.

Rather than focusing on getting the other person to understand, agree, or change, Grey Rock shifts the focus to protecting your own energy, wellbeing, and peace.
It is not about becoming cold. It is about stepping out of a pattern that keeps pulling you back into conflict.

The Grey Rock Architecture: 4 Pillars of Neutrality

The goal of Grey Rock is to become as uninteresting as a grey rock - unresponsive, boring, and utterly devoid of the "data" (emotions/secrets) the system needs to operate**.**

1. The Information Diet (Data Starvation)

• The Core: Stop providing "the fuel." They cannot use what they do not have.
• The Tactic: Keep conversations strictly factual and mundane. Use the "JADE" acronym: Do not Justify, Argue, Defend, or Explain.
• Real-Life Example: If they try to bait you with a criticism, instead of explaining why you disagree, you respond: "I hear that you feel that way." Then, you disengage.

2. Low-Bandwidth Responses (The "Yes/No" Protocol)

• The Core: High-conflict personalities thrive on complex emotional responses.
• The Tactic: Limit your vocabulary. Use neutral, low-energy statements. "I see." "Okay." "I understand."
• Real-Life Example: When they text you a long, accusing paragraph, you don't send back a defense. You wait, and respond with a simple: "Received."

3. Affective Neutrality (The Mask of Boredom)

• The Core: They are looking for a visible "crack" in your armor - a sigh, a tear, or a flare of anger.
• The Tactic: Match their intensity with indifference. If you are screaming inside, project "polite disinterest" on the outside.
• Real-Life Example: During a "crisis" they manufacture, you don't match their volume. You keep your voice steady, low, and calm. You are essentially an observer in your own interaction.

4. Structured Disengagement (The Exit Strategy)

• The Core: You don't have to stay in the line of fire.
• The Tactic: Create "time-outs" for yourself. If the interaction becomes aggressive, you leave - physically or digitally - without explanation.
• Real-Life Example: "This conversation is not productive. I’m going to take some time to myself now." You don't ask for permission; you state your action and execute.

Why It Feels So Hard

Our data shows that the primary reason people struggle with the Grey Rock protocol is guilt.
When you stop explaining and justifying, you feel like you are being "cold" or "rude."
Data analysis reveals: That "coldness" is actually the exact amount of distance required to protect your mental health. You are not being unkind; you are simply refusing to participate in a cycle that is designed to drain you.

The Turning Point

Across millions of support minutes, the turning point for survivors isn't when the narcissist suddenly "gets it." It's when the survivor stops trying to get the narcissist to get it.
When you apply the Grey Rock protocol, you stop being a participant in their chaos and start being a neutral party to it. The system loses its power the moment you stop providing the data it needs to function.

Grey Rock is not about becoming emotionally distant from life. It is about becoming emotionally unavailable to a pattern that keeps hurting you. The goal is not to become a grey rock forever. The goal is to create enough distance from the conflict that you can reconnect with your own peace, your own voice, and the relationships that allow you to be fully yourself.

Taking Everything Into Consideration
Grey Rock is not a solution for every situation. In some relationships, reducing engagement may initially increase attempts to provoke a reaction. In situations involving abuse, coercive control, or safety concerns, professional support and a personalized safety plan may be more appropriate than relying on Grey Rock alone.

Me(27f) and my partner (29m) have been together 10 years and have two kids on the autism spectrum. I have no income of my own and no copy of his card. I don't drive, so I'm pretty dependent on him, which is part of why this is so hard.

Looking back, the cracks were there early. In 2018 I caught him with a dating app account. He said he never used it and deleted it because he felt bad, and that he'd made it because he was scared I wasn't attracted to him since we weren't having much sex. I'd been open with him about my SA trauma. He would make me finish and then I'd freak out and have to stop, so he wouldn't finish, and I felt guilty about it. I knew he watched a lot of porn but I felt like I couldn't say anything.

His family was always rude to me, and to him, and he never stood up for me. We got engaged, had our son in 2019 and our daughter in 2022. My son's birth was traumatic. Over 30 stitches, my uterus prolapsed, he came out blue and not breathing, the epidural failed. My postpartum was awful and I was overwhelmed and not okay, and he helped with the baby but not with me, until it came to having sex again.

He grew distant after a family trip to Tampa that was the worst few days of my life. They left me staying in a tent outside in the heat with a 9 month old and a 2 year old while he went to the casino, supposed to be back by midnight. He stayed gone until 11 the next morning with no word from anyone. I stayed up until 6am thinking the worst. Turns out it was the worst. I was falling apart after that, having sex with him every night trying to fix us, even studying porn to try to be what he wanted.

In 2025 I hit a wall. I wasn't eating or sleeping right and I knew something was wrong. I asked him and he promised there was nothing, that I was "his girl" (he never says my name, he calls me girl). The next morning I checked his phone and found he'd been talking to other men. The first thing he said when I confronted him was "where am I gonna go?" Then somehow I ended up comforting HIM. The reasons kept changing: he was insecure about his feminine side, his family pushed a "manly job" on him, and months later, that the real reason was that I "pushed" to have kids. It took months of begging to get answers. He told me it was men he met in person, oral with several, slept with one, plus video chatting and commenting on Reddit posts. He even asked for a man in our relationship a week after I found out.

When I got upset once, he grabbed my chin and said "I said fucking look at me" through his teeth, and punched a hole in our bedroom wall. He's also put his hand on my throat during sex. I told him exactly how to do it safely and where, but he always does it too rough, and when I tap him to stop he acts confused and says "what?"

It's been a year since i found out about the cheating. The same cycle repeats: I break down, he promises, nothing changes. During sex it's all about him, no aftercare, and he's made me throw up during oral and said we needed to "train my throat" while I cleaned myself up. He had almost no reaction when I told him about my childhood abuse or my past abusive ex. He couldn't run the household even if I asked.

I guess I'm posting because part of me still wonders if I'm being unfair, if he's just traumatized and trying. But writing it all out, I don't know how I keep landing back at "maybe it's me." Has anyone been here? How did you know it was time to stop trying? Is this abuse? He seems like it hurts him when he hurts me I think?

Are there any success stories out there that started off in a high conflict/antagonistic situation?
It’s been over a year and a half post divorce and coparenting our five-year-old. The post separation has become significantly worse for me and more importantly our child. Ex is in contempt for breaking the parenting agreement. Sends page long messages, disparaging me, making false accusation and is obsessed with my new partner. Has had a private investigator, has made false claims about me and my partner. Uses the child as a weapon, manipulates, loyalty, conflicts. Tens of thousands of dollars in court fees.
Has anyone successfully got through this? What happened?

It's wonderful news that Arizona FINALLY updated the laws regarding custody and domestic violence. It's absolutely devastating, though, that it took something so tragic in order for things to change. My heart goes out to those precious babies and the family for what they went through, but what incredible strength that Mama had for fighting for change! Praying for them ❤️

Has anyone considered trying to go back and modify their custody orders since this law just passed? My custody battle just ended a couple of months ago, and unfortunately, I couldn't bring up my history of DV because my lawyer said the judge would not care since he never laid hands on our child. Also, she said the bar was pretty high. I needed to have an active restraining order, medical records, or physical abuse, or he had to be incarcerated for DV to matter to a judge. All I had was a completed DV program he did years ago before our child was born, 1 audio recording, and a detailed journal of years of threats, intimidation, damaged property, verbal/emotional abuse, coercive control, etc from before and after our child was born. I still feel like it won't be enough. Currently, I have 75% custody, and we have to share legal decision-making. I'm wondering if that's still the best outcome vs. trying to modify.

Is anyone else in the same headspace?

I am in the process of divorcing my malignant narcissist soon to be ex-husband of 15 years though in a relationship for 24 years. When I found out I was in a trauma bond, I began to fight my way out. I filed for divorce in 2021, he got on his knees, begged and cried and asked me to stay and he would change. I rescinded the divorce. (Big mistake). Fast forward 2025, I get myself together enough to take another go at it. In other words, do it afraid without all of the answers. Before I filed he seemed like he may be willing to negotiate custody of our 14 yr old son. Once I filed everything changed, he said he wanted 100% custody and that I should "take him to court". I filed in July 2025 and I am still waiting on a court as it has been moved 4 times. He would not produce interragatories and had to be compelled. He turned in half answered info in discovery. He showed up at the default hear and Judge gave him more time and moved our court date. He fired his first lawyer after threatening her, and the Judge reset the court date again for his new attry to get up to speed. So I have been chasing his chaos and he is just now entering the process but still with chaos. My lawyer sent settlement offer and there was no response from first lawyer and now none from the second one so far. I would like to avoid trial. The issue is I am gray rock with him which has allowed me enough peace to live in the same house with him while all of this plays out. He told his neice months ago he was not concerned with finding another place to live because he is comfortable. I need to know what I can do to get some progress out of this situation to avoid additional financial and emotional drainage.

I never called the cops due to his threats to me, but I do have proof of his abusiveness. Unfortunately I realized too late I even was so battered, that my child had borne scars from STBX abuse also, and I wasn’t crazy as he’d convinced me.

I was granted a TPO(temp protection order) immediately upon our escape in June 2025. I didn’t have an attorney when I filed and retained a wk later; an attorney had told me I’d not need counsel present at a TPO hearing, STBX’s lawyer was there, serving me with divorce papers. Ex’s lawyer had me so upset on the stand, I was a wreck. I’ve got not only damage due to YEARS of all forms of abuse, but brain cancer with epileptic episodes directly triggered by stbx & his fam.

STBX had me tried for contempt, served me the day of a relative’s funeral, because my 13 year old refused to visit. I’d let my lawyer know prior to my child’s not visiting, I even contacted my SNAP rep, I called everyone but idk to call the judge himself somehow. Judge wanted a guardian ad litem but took away STBX‘s visits. STBX made a proposal to avoid trial but refused a reasonable counter.

Now, I’ve got the TPO extension hearing which my lawyer said I’d needed to file myself-idk anything about this stuff-but I did it, only to learn my lawyer is out of town in a case, so he won’t be with me. I can’t get his paralegal to return my call, email. My contempt trial took my $4k retainer, so I owe now, despite the retainer was supposed to be all that was needed to get me divorced.

My child and I are nervous wrecks even thinking about seeing STBX, his fam. I’ve no idea what to do, how to say it, or anything. I apologize SO much for rambling! Yet any advice is MUCH appreciated please. I cannot let my child be anywhere near STBX

Hi guys, I’m recently married and I’m stuggling and need to vent. My husband and his mom are very close and we often fight about it. She usually has to see him everyday (yes she is still married with 2 other kids). Our recent fight was because we just got dinner with her and she texts him after saying love you miss you. I asked him if he thought that was weird and he got so angry with me. He said if I keep being a bitch to his mom he wants to shove my head through mailboxes and if I try to move he’ll shove me through the next one. He always talks like that jokingly but it still hurts. I said I was sorry for being mean to his mom. But then something else was nagging me. She said she saw a house that she wanted to move in right done the street even though they just moved somewhere nice like 5 years ago and it’s only 25 minutes away. I thought that was weird but I shouldn’t have brought it up because he then called me a lying prick and an asshole. He said one day he is going to break and not talk to me but not get a divorce because he committed to me.

I can’t stop crying. I think I just need some help or just needed to vent.

Is this a thing?

My ex wife has done unspeakable acts of betrayal on almost every level you can think of. I've spent years gathering information amd creating cases for my legal battle, ensuring my kids are safe, and things split evenly.

Things got messy when I started unraveling the multiple betrayals. As an example of the messy, when she found out I was pursuing her hidden credit card she opened under our name, my ex wife started verbally abusing me on handover and make our kids cry, then DARVO on the parenting app almost instantly trying to re-write things.. All the horrible stuff.

Early on in this legal journey, I would think about winning, in hopes it would encourage me. But when I would think of winning the custody battle, amd then winning the legal battle, all I could see was me crying. It was a horrible experience, and I struggled gathering data because of this phenomenon.

Fast forward to me actually winning my legal case, and all I did was break down and cry.

I know that I'm an emotional man, however this felt like this legal win was worse emotionally than when my dad passed away 2 years ago.

Is anyone up to this stage? Did this happen to you?