r/Shincheonji

If Lee Man-hee is the only person who can interpret Revelation, what happens to SCJ's doctrine the moment he dies?

This isn't a hostile question. It's a logical one that I think every current member deserves to sit with honestly, especially now.

SCJ's teaching rests on a specific claim: that Lee Man-hee alone has received the open scroll, that he alone can testify to the sealed prophecies of Revelation, that he is the one sent by Jesus to make known what has been hidden. This isn't my summary of SCJ's position. It comes directly from internal teaching materials, including these words attributed to the chairman himself: "There is no one in the heavens or the earth that knows the Bible. However, we are those that perceive the Bible." And: "Shincheonji is the only place on the earth that makes known the reality of the fulfilment of the New Testament prophecies."

That claim is built entirely around one living man.

So here is the question no one inside SCJ seems to be encouraged to ask openly. What happens to that claim the moment he dies?

If the sealed knowledge was given personally to him, through direct encounter with Jesus, through the angel of Revelation 1:1, as SCJ teaches, then it was given to him, not to a succession plan, not to a tribe system, not to a document he wrote down. When the person who received it is gone, what remains? Either someone else claims to receive the same kind of direct revelation, which would undermine the uniqueness of his role, or the teaching simply continues on the authority of what he already said, which means it was always just a man's interpretation being passed down, not ongoing divine revelation.

The theological problem is sharper when you look at what SCJ's own framework actually claims. Lee Man-hee is not just a teacher who explained Revelation helpfully. He is, in SCJ's own language, the fulfillment figure. The one through whom Revelation is being completed in real time. The witness of Revelation 22:8. The promised pastor whose testimony is the basis of everything taught in the curriculum. If that's true, then when he dies, the fulfillment is either incomplete, which means the promise failed, or complete, which means the entire group's mission is finished and there is nothing left to do.

SCJ has quietly been preparing for this problem for years. The arrests, the health concerns, the age. But every proposed solution creates a new theological problem. A successor cannot claim the same unique reception of the sealed word without contradicting why it was uniquely given to LMH. And without that, SCJ becomes just another denomination teaching one man's interpretation of Revelation, which is the very thing it has spent decades claiming to transcend.

This is actually not a new problem in the history of high-control religious movements. It is one of the oldest. The Olive Tree Movement, which Lee Man-hee himself was part of before founding SCJ, made similar singular claims about its founder, Tae Sun Park. Park also promised things that required him to remain alive, including physical immortality for believers. When Park died in 1990, the movement fractured. Lee Man-hee watched this happen from the inside.

He then built SCJ on the same foundational structure: one irreplaceable figure whose personal testimony and spiritual authority holds the entire system together.

Scripture actually addresses this pattern directly. Hebrews 7:23-25 makes the distinction plain: "Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them."

The permanent priesthood belongs to Jesus precisely because he cannot die. Every human priest, teacher, or interpreter is temporary. Every system built around one irreplaceable human figure faces the same structural problem on the day that person dies.

The only figure whose authority doesn't expire is Jesus himself.

If you are inside SCJ and you have never been given a clear answer to what happens to the doctrine when Lee Man-hee dies, that question is worth asking directly. Not to cause trouble, but because if the teaching is true, it should be able to answer it.

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u/Automatic_Thing_2370 — 19 hours ago

Shincheonji Church of Jesus, the Temple of the Tabernacle of the Testimony 신천지예수교 증거장막성전

By SCJ logic, to be part of 144k is to live long enough for the 1st Resurrection to happen

It is Flesh + Spirit

not

Dead Flesh + Spirit (otherwise zombie-like I have to say)

If we follow SCJ's logic it is not seal and evangelize + other things

it is

seal and evangelize + other things + stay alive

I must say this it is not against SCJ members but against this whole overall system existence of SCJ this mental push for urgency and results for "salvation" to me is humanitarian crises

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u/Turbulent_Sea7622 — 16 hours ago

Thoughts on Revelation 14:3: The new song that “no one“ could learn except the 144,000. What is the new song, according to Shincheonji? What about those who learnt it and have left Shincheonji?

Shincheonji’s definition —> New Song:

New Song = the reality that the New Testament has been fulfilled. (The Revealed Word of the New Testament)

According to Shincheonji, the New Song is what Lee Man Hee teaches as his testimony. Members must learn this by heart and write countless tests to retain what Lee Man Hee has said.

——————

Now, the Bible states that “no one can learn“ this New Song except the 144,000.

Yet we know that in Shincheonji, EVERYONE must learn this song. EVERYONE takes these tests.
However, many of those who learnt this song have left Shincheonji!!!

My question is this: if the Bible says that only the 144,000 can learn the New Song, how can it be that some who have left were able to learn the song, even though they no longer belong to Shincheonji and, according to Shincheonji’s definition, now belong to Satan?

The Bible says that, apart from the 144,000, NO ONE could learn it.

But why do people in Shincheonji learn the New Song, even though they don’t even know who the 144,000 are?

So, if you simply look at the Bible:

  1. If everyone can learn it, even those who have left Shincheonji, then it is NOT the New Song.

  2. If the 144,000 are unknown, and yet the song is already being learnt, then Shincheonji is more likely a lie than the truth.

  3. If, according to Shincheonji, Revelation 14 has already been fulfilled, why don’t you know who the 144,000 are? Perhaps because that, too, is a lie?

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u/Free-2024 — 1 day ago

I Visited "The Good Words Project" at Venice Beach Today (Livestream & Observations)

https://preview.redd.it/g4mnti5k4abh1.png?width=1672&format=png&auto=webp&s=2e9f4b0d5de5d63a6cbe968d1af5767782598275

https://preview.redd.it/6g15pjnu2abh1.png?width=2146&format=png&auto=webp&s=6fde73aa44c3dc88392cb7742d0f7a25cd7972bd

Today I visited The Good Words Project event at Venice Beach and livestreamed my visit.

My goal was not to protest or interrupt the event. I simply wanted to observe what was happening, ask respectful questions, and document the experience from a public space.

During the livestream, I intentionally did not discuss Shincheonji or make accusations. I wanted viewers to see the event without influencing their first impression.

However, based on my own knowledge and previous interactions, I recognized several SCJ members, including instructor, JDSN, BJN, Press Team, Bonsa Team, and many others. I also participated in part of the event myself so I could better understand the process, including what information participants were asked to provide and how the event was being organized.

Over the next few days, I'll review all of the footage and publish a separate video with my observations and analysis.

If you watched the livestream, I'd be interested to hear what stood out to you.

Livestream:
https://www.youtube.com/live/QzDR1K51pGI?si=TlAlM9QEPJZ0x7k1

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u/belokang — 1 day ago

[Upvote for Publicity for the Algo] Life after Lee Man Hee's Arrest: Have you seen anyone change or leave SCJ after this happened?

How have your lives personally been affected after chairman Lee Man Hee has been arrested and denied bail? Any current members want to actually talk and debate in the comments about this? What is your church / learning center saying about this? Will you guys accept a gulity verdict if it happens? Is a promised pastor even biblical?

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u/ProphecyFulfillment — 2 days ago

The Year of Judgement upon Babylon was proclaimed some time ago – so what now? LMH has been taken captive. How does this fit into Shincheonji’s interpretation of the fulfilment of the Book of Revelation? Where is this written?

Some time ago, the Year of Judgement upon Babylon was proclaimed in Shincheonji.

We had learnt at the Zion Bible Academy:

- that the judgement will take place with physical fire.
- that God will personally judge the churches that do not belong to Shincheonji.

During that year, the tribeleader repeatedly gathered everyone together and taught that everyone should run even faster and harder.
He asked whether we believed that Babylon would be judged that year or not. He said we should work as the Overcomer (LMH) works.

When the judgement on Babylon did not come to pass, it was said: it was just a slogan.

—————————-

It had been said for some time:
we are now at Revelation 18:4: ‘Call my people out of Babylon.’ —> This means that people should give even more to Shincheonji and reap even more.

It was said:
Then at next will happen:
- The wedding: the marriage of spirit and flesh
- The first resurrection
- God comes upon Shincheonji with the spiritual world.
——————————-

Now, a few questions for Shincheonji:

- Why isn’t the plan working, even though LMH has seen and heard ‘everything’?

- Why didn’t he tell you that he would be arrested again?

- Why does LMH have to fight so hard with his lawyers, even though Satan has been bound for many years?

- Why does he have to defend himself at all if he has done nothing wrong and had nothing to do with politics – as he and Shincheonji had taught?

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u/Free-2024 — 2 days ago

I don't think lmh will get out of this one.

I'm thinking this is it for LMH. He will probably be in prison for the rest of his life.

Lmh telling 60,000 plus people to vote a certain way leaves a hard to hide paper trail. I can't expect them all to delete the evidence. Plus this happened over a 4 year period 2021-2024. Scj also has a high turnover rate. so many of the 60,000 scj members left. Many of them will gladly testify against him. I don't expect current members of the 60k to be able to hide the truth either if they were questioned. Korea knows scj hiding and deceptive tactics well. They know just how to talk to these members to get the truth.

Also, the person that SCJ helped get elected ended up being a horrible president. (President Yoon, look him up. ) Now the opposing party is running Korea and they are mad. Not only that the Korean people are very mad because Korea almost went into dictatorship and SCJ helped.

Furthermore, the unification church leader Hak Ja Han has been arrested at 83 years old as well. She claimed to be old and feeble as well but it didn't work out for her either. So I don't think they'll be easy on lmh.

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u/shshmhh — 2 days ago

AI Experiment: Mapping out the theological emergency exits for LMH's mortality

Hey all, had a fun AI experiment and hope this ages well. I just had to do an AI-supported post. At this day and age, we need to go with the trends anyways. Probably just once an AI supported post

Followed is my question and the answer: "Play the devil's advocate and support SCJ. What is the real view publicly scattered online of how long they believe Lee Man-hee will live?"

AI (Gemini):

If an SCJ defender or an instructor were backing up the group's stance, they would argue that the public completely misunderstands their theology because outsiders look at Lee Man-hee through a physical lens rather than a spiritual one.

When you look closely at how current members defend this online, they completely flip the narrative by using three main arguments to explain how long he will live:

1. The Real View: He Lives Until the Work is Completed

From the SCJ perspective, the Chairman cannot pass away until the entirety of God's work—specifically the final events of Revelation 20 and 21—is structurally locked in on earth. They point to biblical patterns like Moses, who did not pass away until he brought the people to the edge of the Promised Land.

An SCJ defender would say: "It is not about a human being magically living forever on his own power. It is about God sustaining His chosen instrument. As long as the 12 tribes are being sealed and the wedding banquet of spirit and flesh is finalizing, God ensures the Promised Pastor is here to witness and execute it. His life is directly tied to the completion of the prophecy."

2. The Defense: "We Never Taught Blind Immortality"

When critics point out that Lee Man-hee is 95 and clearly aging, showing physical frailty or requiring medical assistance, an SCJ apologist will pivot to correct what they call a "web rumor."

They will argue: "The media and ex-members lie and say we worship him as a god who can never get sick. We teach that he is a flesh-and-blood human being. True eternal life of the flesh only occurs during the First Resurrection when the spirits of the martyrs unite with the sealed members on earth (Revelation 20). Until that specific cosmic event happens, he ages like anyone else. When asked directly by journalists if he will live forever, the Chairman himself always says, 'That is up to God's sovereignty, not me.'"

3. The Ultimate Back-Up: Spiritual Manifestation

If you press them to the absolute wall on what happens if he physically passes away before the world sees a public transformation, advanced defenders have a theological safety net already circulating in recent internal teachings.

They will claim: "Even if his physical body passes away, it does not mean SCJ is false. Just as the spirit of Elijah came upon John the Baptist, and just as Jesus operates through the Counselor, God's spirit can manifest through another physical vessel to finish the task. Jesus passed away physically but his work triumphed spiritually. The work of Shincheonji is an eternal covenant; it doesn't end with a physical body."

Moving Back to the Anti-SCJ Reality

While that sounds incredibly organized and spiritual on paper, from an analytical perspective, it is a massive, carefully laid trap designed to keep members from realizing they are moving the goalposts.

  • The Trap Exposed: Notice how the narrative is flexible enough that no matter what happens, they can claim they are right. If he lives, they win. If he dies, they switch to the "flesh and blood/God's sovereignty" or "spirit moving to a new body" argument.
  • The Historical Lie: The claim that they "never taught physical immortality" is completely debunked by their own past media. High-ranking theology directors like Michelle Chang explicitly confirmed on the record in interviews years ago that they believed he would not see physical death. Older members were absolutely taught he was the unmovable pillar of the temple.

The defense is a masterpiece of dynamic damage control. They are systematically preparing the membership for his eventual death by pretending they never promised he would live forever in the first place—classic theological gaslighting to ensure the organization survives when reality finally hits.

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u/Turbulent_Sea7622 — 2 days ago

My group and I used to be in the cult in Alhambra, CA

When: I was in the Shincheonji cult back in April 2023.

How long: I was there 4 months

Eventually through the grace of God we found out this was not a bible study to learn the word of God but instead was an indoctrination and a brainwashing to learn about the new heaven new earth cult.

My name is Jonathan and I want to let you know, person reading this, it is now July 3, 2026 and I along with the group of people that were in this cult previously, have started a bible study, an actual bible study and you are welcomed.

Where: East Los Angeles, City Terrace.

Message me for details.

Every Friday @ 7:30PM

We have been going strong since the January of this year 2026

I know full well Shincheonji members resort to snake like tactics including lying, deceiving, manipulation.

I am also aware they are wolves in sheep's clothing who infiltrate other churches with the goal of snatching away sheep.

Nevertheless, we trust God and have put this bible study in his hands and so we have begun this bible study with our experience in mind that the enemy is working hard and us true believers in Jesus Christ must also do the same. There is a reason that in the word it is written to put on the whole armor of God because everyday we step into the battlefield. May this post find its way to you and I pray to my God through our Lord Jesus Christ that he protects you and your family as well. All glory to God forever. Amen.

Also, I have met Chris Vishoot through video and I am in his group chat for Bible Vaccine for credibility.

I am writing this after recent eventsof Lee Man Hee being arrested for election interference:

South Korean authorities arrested 95-year-old Lee Man-hee, founder of the Shincheonji Church of Jesus, on June 24, 2026, over allegations of election interference. The Seoul Central District Court issued the warrant citing risks of evidence destruction. [1, 2, 3]

Prosecutors allege Lee orchestrated a scheme to influence the country's presidential and legislative primaries by coercing over 50,000 church followers into joining the conservative People Power Party (PPP) between 2021 and 2024. Investigators suspect this mass political mobilization was an attempt to secure favorable treatment and facility permits for the church. [1, 2]

The Shincheonji Church has publicly denied the charges and expressed "deep regret" over the arrest, voicing concerns that the detention could threaten the advanced age and health of Lee. [1, 2]

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u/Extreme-Crow8739 — 3 days ago

another defence BS From perth leader about LMH Arrest , this one is worse

John stop lying to your members

Yes, an arrest warrant in Korea does not mean someone is guilty. That part is true.

But it’s misleading to suggest it’s issued casually or without strong evidence. In Korea, a judge must review evidence from prosecutors and find probable cause that a crime was committed before approving an arrest warrant under the Criminal Procedure Act.

The reasons mentioned (flight risk, destruction of evidence, no fixed address) are not the only requirement — there must already be evidence supporting the charges first.

Also, just because searches and seizures were done doesn’t mean there’s no risk left. Courts can still approve detention if they believe evidence can be tampered with or investigations affected.

Bottom line: an arrest is not a conviction, but it also means a judge saw enough evidence to justify detention — it’s not random or automatic.

Stop giving members only half the story. They deserve to know that a judge approved the warrant based on evidence presented by prosecutors—not because of rumours or persecution.

u/No-Arugula2345 — 3 days ago

Shincheonji and the Jehovah’s Witnesses episode 1

I went on facts on JWs channel to discuss the overlap between SCJ and the JWs. This is the first episode and the second episode I’ll list out more of the overlap and similarities.

youtu.be
u/QuestionsAboutSCJ — 4 days ago

the_goodwords_project - instagram account expose and confirming SCJ followers

Hey guys, I can personally confirm that many of the supporters and followers of @the_goodwords_project are Shincheonji (SCJ) members. I recognize many of them because I was with them for several years.

Please stay alert. Based on my experience, projects like this can be used during evangelism to present a positive public image and encourage people to join by saying things like, “Look how big our community is.” Be cautious about engaging with accounts connected to them.

In my experience, Shincheonji uses deceptive recruitment methods and often does not fully disclose its identity or beliefs at the beginning. Many former members have described manipulation, psychological pressure, and isolation from family and friends. Please do your own research before interacting with or trusting accounts associated with the group.

I encourage everyone to report @the_goodwords_project if you believe it violates the platform’s policies, and I also recommend blocking the account if you do not want to be contacted or monitored by them. Stay vigilant and help protect others from deceptive recruitment tactics.

Thank you all for your support!!

u/MysteriousOil4631 — 3 days ago

Varying parable explanations

Hello, I asked a question about a parable on this community, and still exploring that forum, but I find it interesting to me that those who left the study and church give varying explanations. I was wondering why this is?

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u/Joy_InTheMorning — 4 days ago

The Good words project... just another front to get people in

https://www.instagram.com/the_goodwords_project

Another Instagram profile project to get followers and somehow connect it to a bible study.... If you look closely you'll see.... nothing, because it is so vague because they have nothing to offer... Whenever they are having trouble with persecution the revert to a non-bible study approach. Historically they've done it many times. Marches for peace, marches against female genital mutilation, the list goes on... idk how to spread the word about these types of things.

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u/Cultural_Corner_6192 — 4 days ago

[Exclusive] "Goed to the bathroom twice at night"… Shincheonji follower prison guard's 'Lee Man-hee's Prison Log'

This is a translated article so there is a mistake in the headline, it should read "Went" not "Goed" There are many videos from JTBC news in Korean about this that you can listen to that are dubbed in English as well.

https://news.jtbc.co.kr/article/NB12306296

[Anchor]

Shincheonji Chairman Lee Man-hee is currently incarcerated at the Seoul Detention Center. Shincheonji argues that he should be released, citing reasons such as his advanced age. JTBC investigated what happened inside the detention center when Lee Man-hee was arrested in 2020. A prison guard meticulously recorded Lee's detention status and delivered the records to the Shincheonji leadership outside. That guard was a member of Shincheonji. "He went to the restroom twice during the night," "He slept wearing a black short-sleeved shirt today." From the moment he woke up in the morning until he fell asleep at night, Lee Man-hee's every move was recorded in the report.

First, here is an exclusive report by reporter Lee Ja-yeon.

[Reporter]

Shincheonji recently filed for a review of the legality of detention, arguing that Chairman Lee Man-hee is 95 years old and there is no risk of him destroying evidence or fleeing.

The court did not accept the argument.

This is Mr. Lee's second imprisonment.

He was previously detained in 2020 on charges of obstructing COVID-19 quarantine efforts.

JTBC obtained the contents of a report that was delivered to the Shincheonji leadership during the period he was in solitary confinement at Suwon Detention Center.

This is a top-secret report from Shincheonji that even the Correctional Headquarters was unaware of. It details

the whereabouts of "Teacher," or Lee Man-hee, dated September 22. It contains

detailed accounts of his every move, such as, "He usually sleeps wearing only underwear, but today he slept wearing a black short-sleeved T-shirt," and "He spread strawberry jam on the bread served for breakfast, made it into a sandwich, and ate for about 50 minutes."

The author of the report was a correctional officer who is a Shincheonji follower.

[Mr. A / Former Shincheonji Key Executive: He had been continuously reporting on his movements while inside the Suwon Detention Center.]

He lists a time-based daily routine that would be impossible to know without directly watching the CCTV footage of his solitary cell, ranging from going to bed at 9 PM to waking up at 6:10 AM and the morning check

at 6:30 AM. It even includes details such as going to the bathroom twice during the night, including for 10 minutes at 5:30 PM.

The reporting team confirmed with a former executive that the correctional officer in question was a member of the Jeonju Branch.

[Mr. B / Former High-ranking Shincheonji Executive: I understand that the young correctional officer kept sending it to Branch Leader Lee OO (Jeonju Branch Leader) every evening. In the form of a diary.]

The 12 regional branch leaders gathered at the Shincheonji headquarters in Gwacheon approximately once every one to two weeks for meetings.

[Mr. B / Former Senior Shincheonji Official: He took that document, came to where the branch leaders were, and read it out and explained that the General President's health condition was like this today.]

The Jeonju branch leader at the time is still in office and recently underwent questioning as a witness by the Joint

Investigation Headquarters. [Video Editing: Park Su-min, Video Design: Lee Jeong-hoe]

u/JesusisLord86 — 4 days ago

To anyone inside SCJ who doesn't quite know what they're feeling right now

I'm not writing this to say I told you so. I'm writing it because I think some of you are sitting with something you haven't been given permission to name yet.

The arrest of Lee Man-hee is a significant moment. Not because it proves anything settled, the courts will work through that in their own time, but because it has created a pause in a system that has not paused for a long time. The 2026 Year of Mission Accomplishment. The urgency. The daily meetings. The fruit targets. The pressure that has been building since January. All of it has suddenly arrived at a moment that nobody planned for and nobody gave you a script about.

You have probably already received a message telling you how to understand this. Persecution. Prophecy. Revelation unfolding. Stay strong. Keep going.

And maybe that's true for you. I'm not here to tell you what to conclude.

But if somewhere underneath all of that you are feeling something quieter, something you wouldn't say out loud in a meeting or put in a Telegram chat, I want to say something directly to that part of you.

You are allowed to feel what you actually feel.

You are allowed to be confused. You are allowed to wonder. You are allowed to sit with a question without immediately reaching for the answer you've been given. None of that makes you a traitor, a betrayer, or someone whose fruit is insufficient. It might mean you are paying attention.

Here is the only thing I want to leave with you. If everything you have been taught about salvation, about Revelation, about heaven and the Book of Life, rests on the authority of one man, then this moment is asking you a question worth sitting with honestly: where is your faith actually resting? On him, or on Jesus?

Because if it is on Jesus, then nothing that happens in a Seoul courtroom can move it. John 10:28-29: "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand." That promise was not made through a promised pastor. It was made by Jesus himself, on his own authority, and it holds regardless of what happens next.

You don't have to leave today. You don't have to decide anything. But you are allowed to ask the question. And if you need somewhere quiet to sit with it, there are people here who will listen without judgment and without pressure.

maybe www.freedomafter.org can help you!

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u/Automatic_Thing_2370 — 5 days ago
▲ 39 r/Shincheonji+1 crossposts

Perth SCJ Leader John Discourages Members From Doing Their Own Research on the Lee Man-hee Case (Leaked Audio)

Listening to this recording, John doesn't want members looking into Lee Man-hee's case for themselves. Instead, they're told to rely on what they're being told. I honestly don't understand that mindset. Why shouldn't people research the facts for themselves and come to their own conclusions? If the truth is on your side, there shouldn't be any fear of people looking at the evidence. People don't need to go through one person to get answers. I really don't know who this John guy thinks he is. To be honest, I wasn't even going to say anything publicly, but at this point I don't really care anymore. Esther K, I genuinely tried so many times to help you leave this church because I beleive it wasn't a healthy place to be. You never wanted to hear it. But regardless, thank you for the recording.

u/LingonberryOk5278 — 6 days ago

South Korea’s Minister of Justice statement after arrest of MHL

TRANSLATED STATEMENT:

Today, Shincheonji Chairman Lee Man-hee was arrested and indicted on charges of forcibly enrolling more than 50,000 believers into a specific political party.

The charges involve distorting the political will of the party and the people through mass party membership during major political phases, such as presidential primary, local elections, and party leader elections, and undermining the constitutional principle of separation of church and state.

Religious organizations are faith communities for inner peace and rest, not political groups aiming to acquire power.

The reason our Constitution declared the 'principle of separation of church and state' is to prevent collusion between political power and religion, and because the Republic of Korea is a democratic republic operated solely according to the free will of the people, who are the sovereign, rather than the doctrines of a specific religion.

Just a week ago, Japan's Supreme Court also issued a final dissolution order against the Unification Church for coercing large donations from its followers and colluding with the ruling party.

This incident is also a crime no less serious, and strict criminal punishment commensurate with the responsibility is inevitable.

Democracy and the peace of the community can be maintained only when the state remains in the secular realm and religion in the spiritual realm.

We will continue to respond strictly to crimes that abuse religion as a tool of power or undermine the freedom and democracy of the people in the name of religion.

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves."
- Matthew 7:15

u/trojan_odysseus — 6 days ago