r/antinatalism2

As governments around the world struggle with ways to reverse plunging birth rates, new US studies suggest they have ignored a key culprit -- the smartphone.

Whenever running out of resources is talked about, it is talked about from an enviromental viewpoint, but not an economic/government view point.

Governments no longer have enough money to give good Middle Class lifestyles to the majority of their citizens.

I am talking, citizens having a house, with a car, driving to a job, with a commute of 25 mins or less, not having massive amounts of debt, being able to retire, raise the 2.1 kids the government wants, and taking a yearly vacation.

That lifestyle is no longer affordable to the solid Middle of the Middle Class.

The government cannot kick the can down the road any further, by inventing new government jobs, to give to citizens. The debts that Global governments are carrying is simply too massive.

*The population size has outgrow what Governments can actually care for.*

What are your thoughts?

antinatalism is priceless

Life is just keeping busy with pointless stuff forgetting the horrible things in the world that are happening and can happen to you

Someone really said this to me. This is under an AskReddit post about people who were charged rent by their parents. I had commented that children should be protected from that and also from being kicked out at 18.

The foundation of this belief is that the parents chose to create the child and to take on all of the responsibilities that come with raising a child and providing for its needs. And because they chose to take that burden on, they shouldn't get to turn around and say, "Alright, I don't have to give you anything anymore, and that's that." Or even worse, "You owe me now because of all the sacrifices I made for you."

Well, this person seemed to have a very strong reaction to what I was saying. They called me "lucky", "gifted", and "privileged" a bunch (even though I told them that I had chosen to leave the home and be independent), and here's the best line: "You've never experienced any form of struggle in life and it oozes off every pretentious and self-servient sentence. It's repulsive." What an odd (and incorrect) response to what I thought was a fair point. But I digress.

They challenged my statement, saying that parents don't always choose to have a child. I'll agree that this may be true in the sense that not everyone plans to get pregnant and not everyone has the ability to get an abortion if they want one. But here's what I responded: if people know that they don't want a child or can't afford to take care of a child's needs, then they shouldn't choose to reproduce, and they shouldn't risk reproducing if they can't choose to get an abortion. Why would you risk your child growing up unwanted or in poverty just because you and your partner wanted an orgasm? That may sound crude to some, but we have to think about how our actions affect our potential children. As an antinatalist, I know that I would be committing a grave injustice if I had a child, so I need to do everything I can to make sure that doesn't happen. I'm sure that those of you who live in anti-abortion locations have to be extremely careful to not get pregnant. We choose to make these kinds of sacrifices because we have considered the potential harm to our potential child.

My point in all of this is that it is absolutely a choice to have children, and saying otherwise is like saying that humans are irrational beings with no ability to think about how others may be affected in the future (which might be true for some people). If we are rational, empathic creatures with the ability to consider the consequences of our actions, then we should utilize those capabilities when deciding to create new life, which is perhaps the most impactful thing that anyone can do. I don't understand how people can be so accustomed to "life" that they see nothing wrong with choosing to risk the creation of a human being that they know they can't/won't provide for. Are people really this thoughtless and careless and avoiding of personal accountability? It's really disheartening. If you don't have the means to provide for a child or you don't want to provide for a child, don't have a child. Don't put yourself or your potential child in that position. It's really that simple.

For additional discussion: this person gave an example of a 9-yr-old being put to work digging for cobalt in the African desert, and added, "They're probably complaining less than you." I responded, "If you grew up digging in the desert, would you think it's right to have a child and force them to do the same work?" Interestingly, they never addressed that point again.

So people understand that they shouldn't hit their spouse and it's abuse. But they will hit a child and justify it as "discipline"? Both are very wrong, but the one people justify isn't the one involving two adults but involving a defenceless child who literally can't fight back or leave. And the child never chose this relationship or to be there at all (not victim blaming the spouse that's abused, I'm just highlighting the agency gap).

The law recognises the idea of spousal support and keeping someone in the life to which they have become accustomed, but your rich parents can kick you out at 18 legally and you have no rights.

This makes no sense. Less than no sense. Why is some person you met and got involved with more important than someone you literally made and brought into this world? Why the double standards??

There is a female centred sub but no male centred ones. I often encounter misandry in usual subs so prefer a male centred one.

I also stopped watching anime because I found it misandrist. I also don't like movies or shows for same reason.

You are given a choice. You have to either bring a human being into existence or delete one random human. There will be zero legal consequences, no one will know you did it, it will be instant and painless and you cannot choose who it is.

View Poll

My sister had one child before COVID (before I was an antinatalist) after COVID, I became an antinatalist, and my niece was 2/3 yrs old when my sister started getting that baby fever for another child... I told her to just get a pet. She did not agree!

Fast forward she has two under 10 now and her husband had to self deport to his homeland due to this current administration, so she needs all the help she can get. I, on the other hand was managing school, and working 2 jobs. Trying to find sleep when I could. So when she asked me if I could take my niece to school at 5am, I told her NO. I need my sleep. I was called selfish without her knowing ANYTHING of what I had going on in my own life. Which is fine. Everyone should be preoccupied with their own life, but why do you expect so much out of others? This whole "It takes a village" has made parents very ENTITLED!

THERE IS NO VILLAGE IN CAPITALISM!!!! NONE!

WAKE UP, NATALISTS!!!

She is blocked now. I have no time for entitled parents even if you are family. You literally create people for your own selfish reasons then call other people selfish for not bending to YOUR needs. Hahahhaha. Natalists are HILARIOUS 🤣.

My nieces are still my beneficiaries to everything I own, but I have cut all communication with my sister.

I won't even get into how she curses at our mother for literally anything when all my mom does is cater to her. Especially after she had each child. Staying with her for 3 months after each child. If I get into that, I will type up a book.

Our mother was the thirsty one that begged for grandchildren, I never asked anyone to procreate on my behalf, so why even expect anything out of me when I am literally living my own life and trying to retire early (Which I managed this year at 36 years old)?!?!

This idea that I am too deep of a thinker as an antinatalist. I don't think that's right I think a child could understand my basic points it's just that so many humans (I feel bad for them) are like brainwashed Lemmings running towards a cliff. But in any case my basic points which I cover mostly in my poem if you want to hear it

1. If a nonexistent being can't give their consent to being forced into dealing with pain suffering death depression alcoholism etc I at least don't have the right to force them without their consent out of their safe sheltered state of nonexistence which leads me to

2. The nonexistent humans who are never born don't miss out in the sense that they can't be upset that they don't exist or be upset or pissed about fucking ANYTHING

3. If I know ahead of time that if I procreate then there is not a zero percent chance of that baby being born with a painful terminal childhood illness or being born "healthy' but not even surviving to adulthood in this dangerous fucking world

I don't have the right to take that gamble just so I can fuck

4. Even those who have the desire to raise kids instead of just to fuck adding to the pile of human pain and suffering you can adopt one or more of the MILLIONS of orphans or foster kids already forced into being here without their consent focus on getting them a better life rather than procreating selfishly

Whatever you think of these points at least see that they are not rocket science actually not just sound but easy to understand. And the cherry on top I view NOT procreating as an act of love and compassion and empathy and not wanting to force a safe nonexistent being just so I can fuck into something they didn't ask for. I guess I hate when it gets dismissed as too deep thinking these are easy to understand legitimate points but people (who I feel bad for) are brainwashed by their own basic programming and society itself hardcore to not be able to see that. It's depressing I know.

This world is far too cruel for boys, especially in India. My son wouldn't face any discrimination because he was male. And he won't have to see on the internet that his struggles are completely ignored.

29F and first time poster in this group.

I’ve never really actively wanted kids, just assumed I eventually would get to that point. After I ended my long term relationship 3.5 years ago, I allowed myself to truly explore the idea of being childfree and I haven’t looked back.

My perspective is that despite there being good, happy, loving, exciting moments between humans and during life (enjoying a sunset, bonding with an animal, etc), life is objectively difficult, emotionally draining, exhausting, and people kind of (mostly) fucking suck.

Don’t get me wrong, I believe in good people and strive to be one as much as possible, but 99% of the time when interacting with people whether it be my neighborhood, driving, the mall, literally anywhere, I think to myself “what the fuck is wrong with people?”

The constant entitlement, lack of self awareness, rudeness, non-empathy is ASTOUNDING. I live in Florida, so maybe it’s especially bad here haha, but holy fuck! People are so fucking weird!

Aside from general social niceties, I am astounded by others’ behaviors like 85839393x per week, every week.

Point being… why the fuck would I want to force someone else into this? Humanity is not objectively good in any way, shape, or form. I’m reading A Brief History of Humankind and if I wasn’t already negative about humanity, I am now, lol.

That being said, there are things I enjoy about life, but I truly cannot fathom people just bringing kids here left and right without a fucking thought or shred of introspection.

I hate existance, as there is always problems, and something to worry about, you cant escape suffering, we try and avoid it all the time, but fail. Even if you travel, live life to the full aka full of dopamine, it is reckless, and will end in disaster one day.

I fucking hate hearing that everytime i talk to my grandfather, every damn time, when are you gonna have kids, when are you going to see someone, i don't see the point, what is even the point if they are going to be brought into this world of suffering, honestly the only reason i even partake in society is to "feel normal" but even that has worn off, sometimes when i look in the mirror i wish i was never born.

seeing how crule the world is first hand makes me feel like there is no reason to "search for a mate" like a fucking animal.

The sharpest fall in Indian school enrollment this year in the last 7 years. 1.1M students weren't born so they didn't join.

The current fertility rate is 1.9 in this country and even less among Hindus. But higher in some other religious groups.