r/genewolfe

First-read impressions of Sword of the Lictor

To start: I would request the anyone replying please not make any sort of hints at future events, as I have a somewhat decent ability at deriving what happens from very minute comments or mentions of names. I just came on here to write this post, and immediately saw another post that is simply titled titled "Miles/Jonas" and now I have it in my head that these two characters are related (haven't met a Miles yet) and that kind of ruins a potential revelation for me.

I found SotL moving. It has the most gut-wrenching moments of the series so far, with the confirmation that Dorcas was actually dead and revived by the Claw, the loss of Casdoe's entire family and eventually her Little Severian, Typhon, the reveal of Baldanders, meeting cacogens, the destruction of *Terminus Est*, and the destruction of the Claw's housing material.

I am secretly hoping that the hilt of *Terminus Est* becomes fashioned as another sword (perhaps something like *Ultra Terminus*) because I can see Severian becoming somewhat lost without it. It's a part of his identity. I say "secretly" because I find this might be an interesting opportunity to see what Severian is like without it, with only his wits and the Claw to rely on. Especially after the Claw's housing breaking. I get a sense that the Claw *is* the New Sun, and that it'll grow and feed off of... something. I now believe it replaces negative energies with life. Much as a star does; burn brightly in a lifeless place, providing us with possibility. Severian's burdens simply disappeared while staring into it on the beach. A fascinating artifact.

Back to Dorcas - since her introduction in Shadow, I felt her to be a somewhat background character, not knowing who she really was or why she was following the group beyond her attraction to Severian and the draw of whirlwind that is Dr Talos. Her coming to terms with the fact that her family has died, that she died, and that she needs to return to Nessus to discover who she really is... it's a commendable thing. She immensely grew as a character during her time in Thrax. I really hope they meet again.

Probably the most emotional aspect of the book was Casdoe's family, along with that insane witch Agia. Agia, causing pure destruction at every possible turn. I'm not convinced that the Alzabo wasn't another of Hethor's pets, as she revealed the Salamander and the slug are both his and that she has a hold over him somehow. From Severian's comparisons I also wonder at the connection between Jonas and Hethor, especially that Hethor refused to be seen anywhere near Jonas. But alas, the absolute tragedy of the Alzabo eating the family and Severian's recollections talking about humanity and the layers of consciousness behind such a mind were some of the most effecting moments in the book. Not only the scenes of the alzabo attacking and crying for the family members but, I think, for me, the most tragic discussion was when Severian revealed to Little Severian that zoanthrops are those who wish to still live but not have their burdens of humanity, and that in their wild state, when they give birth, that child is a normal human who will not survive. There's something selfish and depraved about that aspect of zoanthrops, it really affected me.

And then the loss of little Severian. It was just senseless. I'm still trying to make my way through what it served in the story. I see Severian potentially seeing himself in the boy and his curiosity about the gold ring being a reflection of Severian's curiosity around the Citadel. Maybe it also served to show the dangers of heeding a past civilisation, or that Severian perhaps is not cut out to be a father. And to top it off I really wish Severian had even tried to use the Claw, but the body was complete ash. I highly doubt it would have worked. Dorcas was whole, considering the lake in the Botanical Gardens also serves as a preservative.

Then Typhon. Both an awful and fascinating character. Awful because of his disregard for what happened to Little Severian, fascinating because his entire arc was brought up and concluded in a very short but satisfying two chapters. Him being an ancient Autarch was not something I would have guessed, and I also would not have guessed that Severian to deal with him so smartly. I think there's a lot to think about with Typhon with his grafting onto Piaton and I absolutely relished the lore bits he left us with.

The scenes at Baldanders castle was a big shock all around. In my previous post about Claw of the Conciliator, I had made the assumption that Baldanders was a homonculus of Dr Talos. How funny that I should find that not only are the roles reversed, but Wolfe actually uses the word homonculus! I never would have expected that. It adds a lot to both characters, and now I see Baldanders for the schemer he is. I imagine maybe his mind was potentially immature during his growth while we met him in Shadow and Claw, but he hid himself well in broad daylight. Dr Talos being a creation to keep Baldanders under check is a genius move, because from a distance it seems as if Baldanders is simply an imperfect creation himself. My initial guess was that Baldanders was born of the same seed that *I'm assuming* Abaia and his brethren were (which I am only assuming from Jonas' very short story about the woman who came back to Urth from space with the beans she threatened to throw in the ocean).

My absolutely *favourite* moment of the book though? The meeting with the cacogens.

I was giddy with how utterly they opposed the depictions we've come to expect since the beginning. They seem to be a generous race, living short lives and (seemingly) genuinely hoping to help humanity, making themselves the villain so that humans can unite for a shared goal. What's sad is the fact that humans need to unite only against something, but they seem to take this with grace. They also seem to (mostly) abide by the "Prime Directive" in a sense that they don't give us too much, but they still do interfere with whatever it was they were doing with Baldanders and, apparently, the Autarch.

I think for me my favourite aspect of this series might be the cacogens. There's just so much unanswered and unexplained with them so far. That meeting was delicious. I still don't fully understand what they are but from what I remember they were humans many (hundreds of?) thousands of years ago, so I'm thinking they were warped by evolution and their time in space, the different environments of different planets. I'm also thinking they have something to do with Cyriaca's story, though whether they are the creators or the thinking machines I do not know. The description of at least Famulimus doesn't make mention of anything inorganic, so I'm thinking these cacogens are the creators of the thinking machines, which I'm also assuming Jonas belongs to somehow.

Speaking of Famulimus, I caught how Severian changes their gender. Even though his/her voice was orchestral, high, and melodic, he still called them a he. Only when he took off his mask did he start calling her a she, but from the description I don't see anything overly human female looking. I wonder what lies behind this peculiarity.

Another thing I wonder about is the similarity of the names Pia and Piaton. Severian even makes note of this himself, and in my mind this is another of those "too weird to be coincidence" things that keep happening in this story.

I loved this entry so much, and to me I define it as having three distinct parts all ending in intensely satisfying conflict; Thrax and the Salamander, the Mountains and Typhon, and Lake Diuturna and Baldanders. I feel if they were to make a film series, this is the rare instance of a relatively short book needing three parts. It's incredibly dense. The fact that this book was actually split from Citadel was a smart move, in my opinion.

Other moments that I often think about are the boy and his sick sister who Severian heals, Cyriaca's story of the thinking machines and their creators, The Tale of the Boy Called Frog, the mountain descent amongst ruins of strange old architecture. I get chills.

Anyway, I've already started Citadel and have Urth on special order. Very excited. Question: I hear that these books fully open up on a re-read. Is this true for each sub-series, or is it meant for the entirety of the Solar Cycle? Meaning, do people read then reread New Sun, then Long Sun, then Short Sun? Or read all of the Solar Cycle, then read it all again?

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u/FinalOdyssey — 22 hours ago

Miles/Jonas (Spoilers for all of BOTNS)

Hey everybody. I just finished Urth of the New Sun for the first time, and the one thing I still am thinking about is the character Miles. Did Severian really summon Jonas into a dead body? I get that Severian can use the power of the New Sun to do a lot of different and powerful things but I still don’t buy/understand Miles/Jonas. If Jonas went through the mirrors the last time we saw him wouldn’t that transport his body and soul to some other time/place, not just his soul? Also would Jonas even have a soul/spirit that can be put into another body. If it was just his soul/spirit that got transported by the mirrors did Severian just pull it out of whatever plane of existence it was in and put it in the dead soldiers body? Thanks, I really enjoyed this series.

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u/Brin_Milo — 1 day ago
▲ 112 r/genewolfe

Spotted in the Steam description of the new Darkest Dungeon DLC

Definitely one of my favorite quotes from BotNS

u/CompoteNext1955 — 2 days ago

Update on Between Light and Shadow, Beyond Time and Memory, and By Sword and Spirit

Finally decided 11 years was long enough. I have been working on the print versions of my books for Amazon. I will be submitting the paperback print file for a proof tomorrow for the first volume (6 by 9) then the hardback (8.5 by 11) after i reformat it. Page length did not allow the same size hardback. The ebooks are back up on Amazon now and I am the one who published them, but for physical copies wait a bit. Also, the third volume ebook is done and I am proofing it now before I convert volume 2 and 3 to print as well. The final volume, Behind Life and Death, still needs a little more editing before I will make an ebook. The third book covers 1991-2003 and the last 2004 and on.

Feel free to buy from Amazon or wait for the paperback or hardback. Thank you for your patience.

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u/aramini — 2 days ago
▲ 561 r/genewolfe

Illustration: The Atrium of Time

Latest illustration is finished! Definitely one of my favorites so far-- when doing research on the "Sun Dial" I came across posts on this reddit about Gnomonic Blocks or Multifaceted Sundials, and while it's very possible Wolfe was describing something in that ballpark, I went with a satellite/dish array/probe on the basis that I think the imagery is symbolically stronger, given the space travel elements/dying earth genre conventions.

u/deimosremus — 3 days ago
▲ 104 r/genewolfe

Weird coincidence

Driving back from a camping trip…. Listening to sword of the lictor audio book and I come across this street sign lol

u/ddzon1 — 2 days ago

UOTNS Second read question

Simply put, what is going on in the beginning of chapter XIII? With the other Severian? I understand that he’s been captured by jibers, but what’s going on with the (maybe holographic) other Severian?

Sev himself says that it’s an image, but what’s its relation to the jibers and the ship and the plot?

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u/Expert_Document6932 — 3 days ago

Robert Eggers

Anyone get heavy BOTNS vibes watching the trailer for Werewulf? Reflecting on this i realized that literally every Eggers film has extremely Wolfe vibes. Right now he's the only director i can imagine tackling Wolfe/BOTNS and if it never happens i will cry.

*postscript* i used to think Aronofsky would be a good fit for a BOTNS adaptation in that sweet spot between The Fountain and Noah bht i've soured on him considerably in the back half of his career. Is there *anyone* else?

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u/ATaleFilledWithWoe — 4 days ago

Wolfe, Martin, and Buehlman: Influence or Coincidence?

'the Daughters of War' is a phrase in Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun and very similar to the title of Christopher Buehlman's 2024 "The Daughter's War" novel.

Both works use war to complicate questions of gender, power, inheritance, and what happens when women enter (or inherit?) the violent structures traditionally controlled by men.

Or perhaps Galva in The Daughters’ War is slightly more reminiscent of Brienne of Tarth in ASOIAF?

Anyway, I’m curious if anyone else sees a connection here, or if I’m just forcing things together that don’t really belong together, as per my post history, hehe.

u/oblique_obfuscator — 4 days ago

This book was mentioned under my post about "An Evil Guest" so thought I would check it out...have you read it?

u/lamhat — 5 days ago

Saturday Morning Reading

So many interesting interviews in one place. I'm very much enjoying this (for the second time).

u/UnreliableAmanda — 5 days ago

Seven American Nights - am I dumb?

hello, this is my first foray into the world of Gene Wolfe and still don’t know much bout him or his writing

I think I found Seven American Nights mentioned in the weirdlit subreddit, so I decided to give it a shot

I found it a little difficult to start but once I got into it I began to enjoy it more
Since finishing it, I found myself a little confused and decided to see what others online have to say about it

Let me tell you how much MORE confused I am after reading peoples thoughts and the timeline on the wiki and feeling like I read a completely different book

I had missed about 75% of what everyone/everything else is alluding to or discussing (secret weapons, search dogs, plots within plots, a “fake” entry, etc)

I feel incredibly dense that so much of this seemed to go over my head, and I acknowledge the possibility that perhaps this book isn’t “for me”, but I’ve heard nothing but praise for the story and I’d like to give it a fair shake

Is this kind of experience with this story normal? Normal for Gene Wolfe’s work in general? Did you catch everything mentioned in the timeline on your first read? Maybe I’ll have another go at it, this time with this outline in mind

Part of me wonders if some aspects are missing from my version since I am reading it on an e-reader and there were many artifacts and weird spellings and random symbols scattered throughout the text - it was certainly distracting enough that it made the first bit of the story challenging to read… or maybe I’m trying to justify the difficulty I had with it :P

Thanks for reading, please try to be kind, I typically don’t have that much trouble with text or following a story but this one confused me good and I wondered if anyone else felt the same

edit: thank you for the kindness in your replies, I suppose this is why the recommendation said it was like a “game”. I’ll definitely put aside some time to go over it again with all of your comments in mind :-)

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u/rnagikarp — 5 days ago

Just finished Latro in the Mist and Soldier of Sidon

Every Gene Wolfe book is my favorite right after I finish reading it, but the Latro books are sublime. The cast of characters is wonderful. As a hero, Latro is terribly endearing. Although he cannot remember who he is, he acts who he is.

One of my favorite moments was him trying to buy milk and a porcelain dish. Mytsereu won't let him because there are porcelain dishes and milk at home. He wants to feed the snake in the temple "because snakes like milk." The snake, of course, is Uraeus, and Latro does not remember Uraeus but he remembers to bring him milk.

Another thing I liked about these books is the way that Latro encounters the divine. There is no attempt to rationalize it. It's wild and terrifying and alien and real and familiar all at once.

Probably one of the most inventive fantasy series I've ever read. What is your favorite thing about the Latro series?

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u/bantamreturns — 6 days ago
🔥 Hot ▲ 11.0k r/genewolfe+5 crossposts

This concave mirror sculpture by Anish Kapoor in Venice creates a mind-bending illusion

u/No_Palpitation7740 — 11 days ago

Sappho Connection in Book of the Short Sun

I was reading the poetry of Sappho and was stricken by a line that is very likely being referenced in Short Sun. The following is a translation of Sappho’s fragments from John Myers:

So ruthless shepherds crush beneath their feet

The hill flower blooming in the summer heat;

The hyacinth whose purple heart is found

Left bruised and dead, to darken on the ground.

Extremely reminiscent of the famous line from the end of Return to the Whorl:

Though trodden beneath the shepherd's heel, the wild hyacinth blooms on the ground.

Of course, in the original, the hyacinth dies, but in Wolfe’s rendition it blooms despite being trampled. I couldn’t find anyone else who had commented on the allusion online so I decided to post about it here. I don’t have time to really investigate right now or write an essay or anything, but wanted to put this out there for discussion before I forget.

Edit: sorry for formatting I’m on mobile.

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u/PermanentThrowawya — 7 days ago
▲ 180 r/genewolfe

My French Gene Wolfe collection!!

I've seen quite a few people making posts like this and sharing their Gene Wolfe collections, so I thought I'd share mine too! So, this is my french collection. I don't have every Gene Wolfe book that has been translated into french (like Peace or Castleview), but I do have a fair few of them. I thought it might be interesting to share them here, especially for english speaking readers who might not have seen some of these editions before. Some of the covers and editions are quite different from the english ones, so I thought it would be fun to see what you guys think! I'd also love to see other people's collections and editions from different countries! :)

u/Mairenn-Linnea — 10 days ago

BotLS

I think GW is playing a trick on us.

BotNS: amazing in every respect.

BotLS: especially Caldé and now Exodus - pages and pages of dialogue without consequence. Planning for a dinner now with the leaders. What will they eat? How about their guests?

Let’s talk about the war that just ended - which all happened off-page - and what we intend to do - which will happen off-page as well.

At this point I am reading for Oreb.

I am hoping BotSS is better.

Edit:
there are some great parts, like his descriptions of the azoth, etc

Edit2:
Thanks all for your perspectives

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u/TemporaryComplex1054 — 9 days ago

Started Reading Crowley

I’ve been wanting to read Crowley, but never got around to it. Then with the news of his passing I went to my favorite used bookstore. I bought a copy of Daemonomania because it caught my interest. Came home and bought the first of the series on Kindle.

So far I’m enjoying it, and am wondering if it’s as complex as Wolfe’s works?

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u/NotJustAnotherLitBro — 9 days ago

Sailing scenes in Wolfe books

If it's a Wolfe story you can expect among other things like sci-fi mythology and religion lots of sailing which I absolutely adore and can never get enough of. Currently reading Latro and I would have never guessed beforehand to see so many scenes set in water which are my favourite part of the series and rival even those of Pirate freedom. Which other novels contain your favourite nautical scenes Wolfe or other writers?

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u/BuyHistorical1041 — 8 days ago

Aramini write-up for The Fifth Head of Cerberus?

Hey all, re-reading Fifth Head again and wanted to know if there was a write-up by Aramini floating around? I remember I found a lot of analysis by him some time before but couldn't scare it up again, particularly stuff about the political implications of what happens after the ending of Part 3. If anyone could point me towards something like that I'd really appreciate it, thanks!

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u/No_Speaker_6066 — 7 days ago