r/watchHotTakes

Problem is, the market already associates Citizen with affordable watches, or watches for citizens, and they are absolutely the best at it. But Citizen Group doesn’t really have a clear entry-luxury strategy. Their "entry luxury" brand, Frederique Constant, isn’t really playing in the same field as Longines. It feels more like it’s fighting in the Oris/Mido zone. Respectable, but not exactly the same emotional weight.

The funny part is that Citizen absolutely has the capability. A finely regulated automatic Miyota Series 9, finished to the same level as The Citizen, would probably beat Longines to death on specs and finishing as soon as the market shifted its mindset But not even Citizen seems concerned about changing this mindset. speaking of other brands in the group, Bulova, at this point, is mostly perceived as a fashion/watch-mall brand with some cool exceptions. Frederique Constant doesn’t carry enough group prestige, Alpina is not luxury, Arnold & Son is truly luxury but not relevant market share, Campanola has way too many complicated complications not named Patek. And Citizen itself is trapped by its own success: people see the name and think "good affordable Eco-Drive," not serious luxury contender.

So Citizen ends up in this weird position: they are the largest watch seller in the world, with the historical and industrial ability to make something genuinely excellent, but they don’t have a solid luxury ladder, and their answer for that is simply not good enough. The Citizen competes with Grand Seiko 9F at a lower price point, with potentially similar finishing. But it lacks the name recognition, the mythology, and the market training behind it.

And then, of course, people are already calling it "chickenwatch" because of the little bird/eagle at 6 o’clock. That pretty much sums up Citizen’s problem: they can make the watch, but they haven’t taught the market how to respect it.

Until you get to chronometer certs and associated prices, quartz is king and where Japan has focused all the effort for...50 years now. Look at the flagships across the big 3. HAQ quartz, solar quartz, satellite GPS solar quartz, spring driven quartz. Not even a whiff of hi-beat until you get to Tudor prices and anything that has a quartz version is better.

I get the auto appeal and can't deny that it doesn't matter all that much for a truly cheap watch (love me some Vostoks), but since we're talking value, quartz has more to give and Japan doesn't do busted versions with a quartz movement to make a powermatic or ETA look like a better deal.

What are the attributes of an entry to Mid - luxury watch.

1. Easy availability.
2. Mass production.
3. Basic to mid horology.
4. Past laurels.
5. 65+ hours of power reserve.
6. Can be serviced anywhere.
7. No movement complications.

For example - Longines fit all of the above.
And so does Rolex.

1. A Rolex is very easily available at walk in from a grey market dealer.

2. Mass production of 1 million+ watches, Longines is 1.2 million.

3. Basic movements. (Apart from newly released calibre 7135 5hz movement) which Grand seiko had mastered decades ago.

4. Past laurels of being almost 1st at everything. For example claim of 1st wrist watch (santos dumont Cartier). 1st 904L ( omega 1970). 1st watch chronograph 1816 ( pocket watch) 1913 longines 1969 Zenith.

5. Most of the entry to mid luxury watches offer 65+ hours of power reserve with metas and chronometer certificate.

6. Most of the watch makers can service Rolex.

7. Still using Swiss escapement with modification. ( chronergy escapement).

Most detailed oriented people like me, who set a watch, will wait until the second hand reaches 12 before pulling out the crown to stop it so that they can position the minute hand on the dot with the minute marker indice and everything lines up perfectly when they push the crown in again to start it in tune with the reference time at xx:xx:00. It is a pain in the ass to wait until the second hand spins to 12 to stop it. Some smart watch engineer needs to invent the “snap to 12 seconds hand” function already. It’s 2026, come on guys!

Most look pretty cool. Especially the women models. If only the brand wasn't that shit...

Edit: Since many people misunderstood the last statement, I want to clarify: I don't like the brand in all they do. They are the fast food of luxury brands. I don't care about their reputation in the watch world. I am all for the "if you like it, buy it" mentality.

Let's be completely honest: the aggressive hate directed at affordable, legal Chinese homage watches isn't about protecting "horological integrity"—it’s pure financial cope. It is a desperate attempt by luxury buyers to justify why they spent $5,000 to $10,000 on a brand name when a $200 Chinese microbrand offers 90% of the same physical hardware specs (sapphire crystal, solid steel, reliable automatic movements).

The "design integrity" argument falls completely apart the second you look at Swiss history. Watch design has always been entirely derivative:
 AP dropped the Royal Oak in '72.
 Patek Philippe made the Nautilus in '76.
 Rolex made the Oysterquartz in '77.
 Vacheron Constantin** made the 222 in '77.
 Tissot made the Seastar/PRX in '78.

The Swiss "Holy Trinity" shamelessly homaged a design trend to save themselves from the quartz crisis. Furthermore, by the logic of the anti-homage crowd, basically every dive watch on earth today is a "fake" because they've all been copying the layout of the 1953 Blancpain Fifty Fathoms and Rolex Submariner for the last 70 years.

There is a massive structural difference between an illegal counterfeit (which steals trademarks and lies about what it is) and a legal homage. If a Chinese brand like San Martin or Specht & Söhne offers incredible specs using existing case geometry, that isn't a "shitter"—it's just a great value proposition that exposes how inflated luxury Swiss margins actually are.

If you need to gatekeep jewelry and call legal watches "fake" just to feel secure about your bank account, the problem isn't the Chinese watch. It's your own fragile ego.

The thinner the better.

Referring to the Chinese watches thread. Homaging a vintage Tudor sub or, say, a Baby Ploprof is okay IMO. Homaging a Tudor Black Bay or, say, a Seamaster NTTD, is not. Also, saying 'homaging' is okay too. YMMV.

I cannot stand when a watch has a date window at 4 o'clock. It feels like whoever was designing the watch just didn't think about where the put the date window and tossed it wherever it would fit as an afterthought. A lot of chronographs do this and it makes the watch face feel completely unbalanced. Like you have 1/3 of the top taken up completely by a logo, and everything else is shoved down in the bottom 2/3s.

This looks great in term of proportion

This is a mental illness

If you really need to have a date window on your chronograph put it next to the logo for a sense of balance, don't just randomly shove it between the sub-dials.

And what the hell is this non-sense? They had plenty of room at the 3 o'clock position for the date window. Straight to jail.

Fight me.

Though they are usually the first serious watch or automatic watch of any beginner, the more you discover watches after Seiko, you find almost all of them better spec wise. Their dials are beautiful but:

Seiko movements are very thick

Almost none of their automatic watches under $700-$800 offers sapphire crystal.

There are bezel alignment issues in all Seiko 5 gmt.

Movements are very inaccurate they are, they aren't even regulated from the factory. They usually have high beat errors. My addiesdive worth $70 factory regulated Seiko movement with almost nil beat error.

They only have 3hz movement in all their watches apart from super high end ones, citizen offers 9 series 4hz in promaster which is not that high end.

And now on the top of all this they have had a massive price hike here in india..

I’m now at the point where the optimum watch collection is probably just a Presage Cocktail Time, a PRX, a Bambino, and G-Shock. They look nice, tell the time, fit every circumstance - from cleaning out the garage and socialising to working in the office and attending formal work events. I no longer want to waste money on the expensive watches.

Imho the advice of saying “watches are not rational purchases so you shouldnt worry about the resale value” is silly and quite frankly ridiculous.

Sure, even if you really really like a watch, if it has shitty resale value, you should take that into consideration. Why? Well so you dont overpay of course. If the resale value is ass, you are likely way overpaying if you buy at MSRP.

You also dont know if your taste may change, wouldnt you want to preserve as much value so that you may take a smaller loss when selling it in favor of another one?

Oh and dont even THINK about the bullshit of “oh if you dont sell it you dont lose anything”. Thats utter bullshit, you lost your money the second you walked out the AD.

Im not saying you shouldnt buy a watch just because the resale value is bad, or avoid wearing one you already own to preserve the value, but just because you are into watches doesnt mean you have to be completely financially irresponsible and cant think shit out logically first. Straight up telling people not to worry about resale value is stupid and irresponsible.