Most of the discourse focuses on people in their 20s-30s who are struggling, but the insight of parents (50+) seems to be absent.
If you are the parent of an adult facing hurdles - why do you think this is so?
I want to hear from people who met spouses in unusual ways - like at work, MSA, volunteering etc
I'm asking in this sub, because the other Islamic will largely argue from Salafi perspective.
What did the Fuqaha of the Asharis and Maturidis say about this?
In my understanding the allowance is for men to marry Christians (including trinitarians, as they are acknowledged as such in the Quran) and Jews is unconditional, as per the texts of Allah so long as they are non-promiscuous (chaste, but not necessarily virgin).
Later Fuqaha said the child must be raised Muslim, and ideally such marriages should not occur in societies where Muslims are the minority - however this is a guidance. I believe the Malikis said such marriages become Makruh, but not Haraam, as making it haraam would entail abrogating Allah's word.
My question is - what did our traditional Fuqaha, ideally from the last 2-3 centuries, say about the wisdom behind men marrying Kitabiyyat?
In todays age I can see lots of issues regarding the children's upbringing if this were enacted in the West.
The issues around getting married are structural - based on changing social dynamics, inability to naturally meet, and economic conditions.
People in every society are trying to figure out a solution but there isn’t one.
A lot of the time people put the blame on men - saying there are no good men worthy of marriage. I hear this in the West and in Muslim discourse, but I think it’s too simplistic, but it is normalised. But I’m also aware some people online blame women for this.
In my anecdotal experience the men who are struggling are actually the ones with their life sorted, but struggle primarily with access. The traits that sustain a marriage are not traits you can outwardly express and present to prospectives unless you are family friends or in a tight-nit community.
It's actually quite interesting to see the discourse. In the West people blame hookup culture, marriage aversion, lack of religious attendance etc as the sole causes. Muslim communities lack hookup culture, are pro-marriage and have high religious attendance yet Muslims still struggle to marry.
I think if you were to ask me to narrow the causes as to why people aren't marrying (Muslims especially) it comes down to:
Telling men to 'get a better job, hit the gym, become more emotionally attuned' will not address any of the above hurdles
As some of you may know, I’m not a ‘progressive’ but I come here every once in a while to rant.
I feel Muslim cultural norms around mixed gender interactions amongst Muslims are deeply unhealthy.
Looking back to my Uni days we had a gender segregated MSA - one for men and the other for women. There was effectively no interaction between the genders! I left Uni without meeting a single Muslim woman! I did meet plenty of Non-Muslim women though, and many of my Muslim peers ended up dating and even marrying Non-Muslims, simply because they had more casual contact with them.
The end result of this segregation is a population of people who cannot naturally interact with Muslims of the opposite gender, and this trickles into everyday interactions and ironically makes marriage more difficult because people see every mixed gender Muslim interaction as a high stakes event.
Some scholars however say if a man is at risk of Zina marriage is Wajib.
What if he can’t marry a Muslim, and only has Kitabiyyat around him?
Or is the only legitimate option for him to perpetually fast?
I’ve been eating at a surplus lately (400 calories a day probably). Lifting heavy, progressively overloading my full body 3 times a week. I am slowly building more muscle, but will almost certainly be building some fat as well, albeit slowly.
Should I simply embrace the temporary fat, knowing it’s very easy to lose?
I’d say the fat gained in a 3 month bulk could be lost in 2-3 weeks with a good cut.
Apps are a hit or miss, as many of us know.
Work is often taboo - though I do know many who found romances through work.
Increasingly, advice suggests hobby and interest groups, but that only works if your interests also appeal to women. It could work for a running club, sports club etc I guess.
Anyone have any suggestions?
In my marriage search this is exactly how I was made to feel.
It seems a man, especially a Muslim man, your value is solely determined by what he can provide to a woman - physically, socially and emotionally. Your worth is contingent on meeting their criteria, and the prospective wife is celebrated for saying so.
When a Muslimah says she wants a man who meets XYZ criteria or she'll be happy remaining single, people celebrate. This is fine in itself, but it implies men are utilities with a set function and disposable when they cease creating that spark. It's why we see so many failed marriages.
The fact that the Muslim marriage search is so front loaded - your personality, individuality and character are often the last things to be assessed.
This does not sit well for me, but it's the blunt truth with how the modern world works.
For the brothers in the West - would you seriously consider marriage to a woman from overseas?
Lots of men seem ambivalent, or say 'no' because they think the cultural differences are too great.
But in all honesty, in the West, Muslims aren't a monolith either. I'd say a Canadian Pakistani is far more similar to a Pakistani from Lahore than they are to a Somali from Canada when it comes to culture, mindset and lifestyle.
With the rise of globalism and the internet, people across the world aren't as unique as you may think.
The conventional advice given to men who are single seems to be to "work on themselves, hit the gym, get a better paying job etc".
But in all honesty this advice is pretty meaningless for relationship building, considering the major bottleneck is actually exposure and meeting new people. For example Tim a 35 year old accountant, hits the gym, gets jacked and gets promoted, but still remains single because he doesn't socialise, sticks to his usual friend group and/or relies on apps alone.
I think such advice can be damaging, especially when men's sole drive for self-improvement becomes the aspiration for a relationship.
Plenty of broke, crazy, mediocre men end up in happy and stable relationships not because they are the best, but because they put themselves out there and were at the right place at the right time.
Yes, self improvement is beneficial, of course it is, but it's no guarantee to a relationship
Seems amongst Muslims, being super conventional is a big virtue.
You should have the 'correct' upbringing, family, life path etc. Any deviations are heavily penalised due to community oversight.
I've noticed this far more amongst Muslim communities than Western communities, where individuality and eccentricity is more tolerated.
It's because you are being assessed not just by the prospective, but by their immediate and extended family as well.
That said - Theres a difference between functional eccentricity (employed, following milestones etc) and dysfunctional eccentricity (shaky job history, delinquency etc)
I’m a weird man, who’s had a very unconventional life, and this has carried over into adulthood via my humour, personality and mindset. For example I’d be at peace walking along the beach and collecting crabs from the rock pools as opposed to swimming in the sea.
I have a very bizarre set of interests which are rarely shared with other women, and my athletic hobbies are also male dominated.
Periodically I might meet another somewhat weird woman on an app… but it’s so hard. I have to contain myself and pretend I’m someone else to fit in to modern dating.
Most women I meet are your very conventional 9-5 types who want to own a nice house in the suburbs. Meanwhile I want to own a plot of land in the middle of nowhere and grow potatoes to be self sufficient.
It is well known, many Muslims have slept around before marriage, and may have received or transmitted STIs - Chlamidya, Gonorrhoea, HPV, Herpes etc.
The issue is, some STI's are asymptomatic and some are not routinely screened for in STI screens (HPV, Mycoplasma Genitalus).
Anyone know of someone who got an STI after marriage from a spouse?
How do you know you are STI free?
You know who she is, and every few days she posts or makes a gender-bait comment.
I don’t want this sub to be turned into another cesspit
Hamza Yusuf spoke about this, specifically how the outcomes of many sins can be passed down. However the sin is not.
He used the example of Arabs rebelling against the Ottomans as an example.
If your parents were gamblers and they lost all their money, this is an outcome that directly affects you.
Would that not mean many modern misfortunes could be the results of sins of your ancestors??? Seems suspicious…
I’m a certified weirdo. I have an unusual sense of humour, live an unconventional life (change cities, countries, careers rapidly), and have random interests.
I am very introverted however, and my personality only comes out once I really get to know people.
People who know me, like me, but at times I feel they laugh at me for who I am and what I do.
I’m talking about the real world, not just online discourse.
Personally I’m not seeing withdrawal, despite what the online discourse says.
People of both genders still benefit from each other and want to marry each other.
What I am seeing is more men withdrawing from Muslim marriage though. I personally know as many Muslim men who have married Non-Muslims as they have married Muslims.
Where are the single bros in ther lats 20s to 30s? Seems most men in this group are married and/or less sociable.
Masajid and community events are, MashaAllah, full of young brothers and the elderly. But it’s difficult to connect and befriend these people when you are at different life stages.
My current friend group are all Non Muslims who I worked with, studied with or met during social sporting events.
Very difficult to find Muslim men to build friendships with.
Mosque events largely cater to the youth, which is great for them, but single Professionals like us find ourselves in limbo. Jummah isn’t really a time to bond or make friends as everyone is in a rush and has to leave for work.
Anyone else feel the same way?
It’s important to have Muslim friends but there so hard to come by.
Lots of conflicting info, the mainstream online advise is you need to provide a per what she's used to.
If your wife's parents are millionaires, you won't be able to provide.
Is there Ijma on this, or is it more generic guidance?