u/Sunbather-

Anyone familiar with Robert Jordan’s extremely flawed and uneven epic The Wheel of Time will know the meme “she said while tugging at her braid and hugging her breasts.” Or some variation of it. Jordan said this way… WAY too often.

Bakker has the same issue except it’s “hot tears.”

Always some variation of hot tears or hot tears sliding down someone’s cheek or seeing hot tears on a cheek.

I’m talking proper death rock like Specimen, Alien Sex Fiend, Christian Death.

I envision Eliazares as this kind of decadent, glamorous 80s dark rocker/goth with long black nails and heavy makeup, heavy ornaments.

This series would make a fantastic dark 80s style dark fantasy series filmed on the same cameras they used in Excalibur.

As a servant of Satan himself blessed be his name, one of my many duties I must attend is the infiltration and influence over certain Abrahamic religious institutions.

I thought it would be fun(ny) to have a nice old church lady read Bakker’s work.

She thinks it’s brilliant, you see this woman is a psychologist. She retired but, she spent her life in that field.

I got her to read The Darkness that Comes Before this year and she cannot stop going on about how amazing and thoughtful she found it to be.

I’ve also shared quite a bit of other evil pieces of art with her.

Certain black metal bands, NIN, dark philosophical work.

All kinds of great stuff.

You’d never think this person would be even remotely interested in anything like that but she’s actually found a lot of meaning and fulfillment in the darker arts I’ve shared.

Many years ago, I had a vision of creating an online community for florists and floral designers.

At the time, there was really nothing like it. There was no place for passionate designers to gather, communicate, share ideas, build relationships, or participate in events together.

When I assumed leadership of r/FloralDesign, I promised that I would build a safe, active, fun, and meaningful community that would benefit our art in every way I could manage. I sincerely hope that, even if only for a little while, I succeeded.

Later, when we assumed leadership of r/Florists, I made the same promise. I wanted to build something truly special—a place that would serve as both a welcoming community and a valuable resource for anyone curious about the world of floristry.

It took an incredible amount of work.

Now, however, we're facing a difficult reality.

One of the promises I made was that I would help these communities grow. Looking back, I believe that was a mistake. They've grown to the point that they no longer feel like communities. They feel more like companies—large, impersonal, and increasingly stagnant.

Unfortunately, the internet is no longer the bastion of social connection that it once was. As these communities expanded, so too did many of the worst aspects of online culture find there way here. The hostility, the cynicism, and the antisocial nature of modern platforms have gradually seeped in to the point where it's becoming impossible to preserve the close-knit, welcoming environment we originally set out to create.

The last several times we've announced events, design contests, community meetups, and interviews with well-known florists, the excitement has been tremendous, but actual participation has been virtually nonexistent.

I don't believe that's the fault of our members. I believe it's a consequence of platforms that are increasingly designed for anything but genuine human interaction.

Another issue that's become more apparent is the growing hostility toward newcomers. I've had several members complain that people come here asking for "free advice."

I find that criticism difficult to understand. If you don't want to offer advice, you don't have to. Someone asking a question doesn't diminish your own experience in any way. Communities exist because people help one another, especially those who are just beginning.

Finally, I believe artificial intelligence has fundamentally disrupted many of the purposes these communities were originally built to serve.

The safeguards we've had to implement to protect against AI generated imagery and deceptive posts have unintentionally made it much harder for legitimate newcomers to participate freely. At the same time, Reddit has made its direction regarding AI increasingly clear.

So where do we go from here?

I don't believe this is a battle that can be won on Reddit. Treating AI as though it's simply another problem to moderate feels like treating the symptoms rather than the cause. Increasingly, it seems that the only way to escape its influence is to step away from the environment that depends on it. AI can't replace a community that exists in spaces where authentic human connection is the entire point.

Looking back, I think I should have seen this coming. Instead of investing so heavily in online communities, perhaps I should have focused on building a word-of-mouth floral design club something local, personal, and capable of growing from city to city. A community whose relationships weren't doomed by the decisions of a social media platform.

I'd genuinely like to hear your thoughts.

Please share your ideas, feedback, concerns, or alternative perspectives.

Above all, be civil.

Many years ago, I had a vision of creating an online community for florists and floral designers.

At the time, there was really nothing like it. There was no place for passionate designers to gather, communicate, share ideas, build relationships, or participate in events together.

When I assumed leadership of r/FloralDesign, I promised that I would build a safe, active, fun, and meaningful community that would benefit our art in every way I could manage. I sincerely hope that, even if only for a little while, I succeeded.

Later, when we assumed leadership of r/Florists, I made the same promise. I wanted to build something truly special—a place that would serve as both a welcoming community and a valuable resource for anyone curious about the world of floristry.

It took an incredible amount of work.

Now, however, we're facing a difficult reality.

One of the promises I made was that I would help these communities grow. Looking back, I believe that was a mistake. They've grown to the point that they no longer feel like communities. They feel more like companies—large, impersonal, and increasingly stagnant.

Unfortunately, the internet is no longer the bastion of social connection that it once was. As these communities expanded, so too did many of the worst aspects of online culture find there way here. The hostility, the cynicism, and the antisocial nature of modern platforms have gradually seeped in to the point where it's becoming impossible to preserve the close-knit, welcoming environment we originally set out to create.

The last several times we've announced events, design contests, community meetups, and interviews with well-known florists, the excitement has been tremendous, but actual participation has been virtually nonexistent.

I don't believe that's the fault of our members. I believe it's a consequence of platforms that are increasingly designed for anything but genuine human interaction.

Another issue that's become more apparent is the growing hostility toward newcomers. I've had several members complain that people come here asking for "free advice."

I find that criticism difficult to understand. If you don't want to offer advice, you don't have to. Someone asking a question doesn't diminish your own experience in any way. Communities exist because people help one another, especially those who are just beginning.

Finally, I believe artificial intelligence has fundamentally disrupted many of the purposes these communities were originally built to serve.

The safeguards we've had to implement to protect against AI generated imagery and deceptive posts have unintentionally made it much harder for legitimate newcomers to participate freely. At the same time, Reddit has made its direction regarding AI increasingly clear.

So where do we go from here?

I don't believe this is a battle that can be won on Reddit. Treating AI as though it's simply another problem to moderate feels like treating the symptoms rather than the cause. Increasingly, it seems that the only way to escape its influence is to step away from the environment that depends on it. AI can't replace a community that exists in spaces where authentic human connection is the entire point.

Looking back, I think I should have seen this coming. Instead of investing so heavily in online communities, perhaps I should have focused on building a word-of-mouth floral design club something local, personal, and capable of growing from city to city. A community whose relationships weren't doomed by the decisions of a social media platform.

I'd genuinely like to hear your thoughts.

Please share your ideas, feedback, concerns, or alternative perspectives.

Above all, be civil.

Here’s what you’re up against as a salesman.

Gardens of the moon is genuinely one of the worst books the person has ever read in their life.

A series that takes multiple books in order to get good or start making sense isn’t a good series.

The Malazan fan base is aggressively toxic, to the point where certain book tubers have left that fact in their reviews of Malazan.

The author believes he has produced something of academic philosophical and historical significance/brilliance , behaves like serious professor and sociologist in interviews, but has actually produced something that’s closer to Dragonlance and forgotten realms and its quality.

There is a sunken cost fallacy involved with the critical praise this series gets.

Poor structure and abysmal pacing and horrible exploration of the world is being repackaged and sold as “complex” and avant-garde.

The prose is only high to those who haven’t read high prose.

Assume that these are all things, a person believes about Malazan.

Change their mind.

Update

Malazan is the monster truck show of the fantasy genre. Same announcer and commercial voice actors and everything.

That sub is pretty legendary for mods being abusive bullies, but have any of you had bad experiences here?

The real world goth scene is the total opposite of what you’ll find and experience there.

I’m super thankful for this community, the mods aren’t toxic cultists.

I go to goth night at the DNA lounge every week and goths are totally awesome and cool people.

Online on that sub? Sheesh… it’s like a cult.. a super scary Christian(esque) cult.

CLARIFICATION
I do not identify as a goth, I came from the southwest screamo scene with bands like envy, touché amore, funeral diner, hot cross, raein, Saetia, Jerome’s Dream, etc…

But I do enjoy a lot of goth music and art/fashion.

Same with industrial.

UPDATE

WOW, I’m glad I’m not alone I guess.

Honestly I’ve been watching that community for a long time, maybe 8 years, and I’ve seen so much abuse happen on it. I’ve seen the mods there coordinate attacks on users, mass reporting by the mod team to get people auto banned by Reddit.
I’ve seen some pretty bizarre homophobic and racist behavior there too, which is weird for a community that presents itself as super progressive.

And ye, I am banned from that community, I was banned for posting about the new AFI record… which is, without doubt, a goth album.

A damn good one too.

The mods couldn’t handle it.

I wasn’t alone in that mass attack on users talking about that album.

I really think the people who run that community must be unwell in some way.

Update 2

Wow, I did not expect them to come into this thread and start gaslighting everyone’s negative comments about them.

UPDATE 3

It’s pretty clear that by the behavior of the r/goth mods who’ve come into this thread, that what people say about them and that community is overwhelmingly true.

They’ve come into here and gaslit all of us, bullied, told us we’re all liars, played the victim, lied themselves, and so much other nonsense.

One even told me I don’t know what bullying is, I said I very much do because of a physical deformity I’ve had my whole life, they dismissed it outright and continued gaslighting.

“Boohoo” was the r/goth’s mod response to my words.

Update 4

Well, the mods of r/goth have made their position clear in this thread..

We’re all lying. None of our experiences ever happened.

They’ve made it clear that hundreds of people who don’t know eachother, that have vocalized nearly the same experience are lying. Everything we’ve said is just “bullshit” and a witch hunt. Seriously, look at their words in this thread.

Update 666

Well, looks like the r/goth mods have deleted all of their interactions and comments with this post.

No matter, we all got screenshots of their lashing out.

One of the hallmarks of abusive cultures is that, when confronted with the people the culture has harmed, the response is “that never happened”, “you’re misremembering”, “this is being taken way out of context”.

This is essentially what they have done, they spent the entire day yesterday telling us we’re all full of shit, making it all up.

It’s such a relief knowing that these people have zero actual real world involvement with goth culture,

I’ve been on a quest to find crossover bands that incorporate genres that are under the “alt” umbrella but from total opposite ends of it.

Industrial and Screamo pretty far from eachother on the tree.

For those who may not know… Screamo (an often misunderstood and misapplied genre name) is a genre of emo/hardcore punk music that has had several waves now.

If you want to hear what it sounds like..

Envy (from Japan) - A Warm Room

The Saddest Landscape - The Sixth Golden Ticket

Loma Prieta - Fly By Night

Touché Amore - Flowers and You

Kodan Armada - No has never been a three letter word.

From First To Last - Ride the Wings of Pestilence

Those are pretty good examples of the genre.

So… is there any industrial/screamo crossover?

I’d like to discover it. 😎

Was thinking about this today.

I like when two unrelated genres/movements of alternative music mix together.

I thought, which two styles of dark alternative music are the most different from eachother?

Well… Goth and thrash are pretty different, and have very little relation other than part of thrash has its roots in punk and goth is an entire punk branch that went the opposite direction.

Screamo and industrial would be interesting as well, that’s only for the 3 people here who actually know what screamo is. 😎

But yeah… any gothic thrash out there?

Every time I hear a new show announcement for an adaption of a fantasy or sci fi epic, I get excited briefly but then remember that 95% of them end in embarrassment, insulting the authors, and ruining interest in their work.

Don’t get me wrong, I would love a high budget, well produced Otherland TV series, but every time a studio makes an announcement for an epic fantasy TV adaptation, and it’s not a Tad Williams series, I exhale with relief.

Tad Williams’ work, is too special, too important and too precious to risk in greedy, incompetent studio hands.

But… if the right people were involved, I’m sure they could make something incredible.

I admit that when Game of Thrones was announced as an HBO series, almost 2 decades ago now, I was actually kind of disappointed that they didn’t pick Tad Williams memory, sorrow, and thorn.

It would’ve been easier to manage because it’s complete, and it’s the inspiration for Martin’s work.

But after seeing the last two decades of absolutely abysmal slop that producers vomit out, I’m very happy that nobody has gotten their disgusting, shit stained fingers around Tad Williams’ beloved work.

We went to see Killswitch because they rule and I’m a huge fan of their songs, especially their guitar riffs, which are so good.

I’ve always been aware of Machine Head but had never seen them live or given any of their records a fair shot… I guess they just never hit me at the right time.

I only ever knew two of their songs.

They for sure put on the best show of the entire gig.

Robb Flynn sounds incredible live. And I’ve been listening to the albums… I gotta say that some of these studio recorded songs don’t really reflect how powerful his vocals are.

His voice is brutal and mighty and perfect for the style of music.

I also appreciated a lot of the messaging he gave him between songs, which were very sincere and heartfelt and important.

He talked a bit about how he’s been struggling with his mental health over the last couple weeks, metalheads need more of that kind of honesty.

Their song Locust, especially is a fucking banger live, the way they play the breakdown at the end of it is a lot different from the studio version and it’s one of the sickest moments of music I’ve ever witnessed.

Killswitch Engage was pretty good too, but their first two songs were muddied by Adam D’s amplifier not being loud enough in the mix.

It took their sound team way too long to get everything balanced.

Someone for sure needs to be fired, because they’ve had sound issues this entire tour apparently.

And they shouldn’t be a difficult band to mix or to balance.

Ok I remembering seeing it YouTube sometimes last year.

I think it was in the late 90s/early 2000s.

The show starts with Maynard holding a camera on his mic and the camera is projecting his face onto a giant screen behind and above the stage.

His face is all white and his eyes are black.

Can’t remember what song the intro was.. I can’t find the video now.

Any tool experts know when this show as or what video it is?

Thanks